The Nineteenth Byte

des54321

00:00

okay this shouldnt be happening

lyxal

You know you're screwed when java doesn't recognise itself

2

Seggan

@des54321 java 16(7)...

if anything, use the socket interface

des54321

yeah screw it im writing my bot in python and using the socket interface

Seggan

hmm also seems the JSON example links got deleted...

hastebin

des54321

youre using JDK 17, whats the matter with you

Seggan

00:04

on my end its 16 :p

des54321

welp python time

Seggan

@des54321 yeah, to run the controller just edit this to your bot and execute ./gradlew runShadow. dont even need intellij

user

00:21

17's LTS, it's better

des54321

00:35

hold on I re-opened the java bot, and things seemed to clean themselves up, so no more fucking with websockets for me!

Seggan

you dont even need websockets

just pushed a python example to the repo

lyxal

@Ginger can't believe it kept my zalgo username after all this time

des54321

00:56

so wait @Seggan If your bot is sitting somewhere on the left side of the pyramid and it moves LEFT, is that the same as DOWN?

Seggan

im sorry, i messed all my directions up

all directions are absolute

UP_LEFT UP UP_RIGHT
LEFT NONE RIGHT
DOWN_LEFT DOWN DOWN_RIGHT

des54321

11111111111
12222222221
12333333321
12344444321
12345554321
12X45654321
12345554321
12344444321
12333333321
12222222221
11111111111

so if my bot is at the X, and moves UP, it actually stays on the 3 level?

11111111111
12222222221
12333333321
12344444321
12A45554321
12XB5654321
12345554321
12344444321
12333333321
12222222221
11111111111

more clearly, does it move to A or B when moving UP

lyxal

@OldSandboxPosts? More like NoSandboxPosts amiright?

different note: I've been watching a playthrough of a game called Patrick's Parabox and now I'm dreaming of infinities and epsilons and recursion.

patricksparabox.com for the actual game site btw

Unrelated String

01:14

@Ginger the /shruggie command is broken lmao

lyxal

01:44

Can't believe I almost left a private field public on a UML diagram

Pyautogui

@Seggan I love your KOTH. Very clever and interesting setup!

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms imo, we've settled down now. A lot of the things you're referring to were happening in the months just after the sudden surge of new users due to LoTM. I don't think any of us knew exactly what we were doing.

Radvylf Programs

That's sort of what I was thinking, since y'all have been a bit better behaved recently :p

lyxal

Only took everything breaking internally to fix it

Radvylf Programs

I realized about halfway through that conversation that all of the problematic examples I had were from a long time ago

lyxal

01:51

to quote hyper:

> before we knew it, too many cooks spoiled the broth

we know where we're headed now though

Radvylf Programs

This might be a big ask, but honestly I don't think the flags really fit Vyxal anymore. Your summary of why Vyxal exists already differentiates it a lot from the competition, and makes it clear it's not just about golfiness. The flags almost feel like Ash's modifiers: a feature added early on that no longer fits the language but is hard to get rid of.

Since last I heard of Vyxal is about to be totally reimplemented in Scala and big changes are being made, maybe it would be a good time to reflect on whether they're needed. It's a big part of why I'm still kind of unsure about my feelings on Vyxal (since there are also a lot of things I like about it).

lyxal

"about to be" is a bit of a stretch

the way things are going, the start of that is months away

allxy

flags are helpful and sometimes necessary

lyxal

maybe the number of flags could be cut back a little bit

Radvylf Programs

Well, I'm not saying get rid of ones like the timeout flag and the ones for formatting output for readability, but removing cheaty or uninteresting ones

lyxal

01:58

@RadvylfPrograms if you wanted to, you could help contribute to those big changes

allxy

@lyxal Yeah

Radvylf Programs

Like, I think even flags like j are fine, they just need to be reworded a bit. Instead of printing a string with the list joined by newlines, it prints the array, just with a different representation.

lyxal

@allxy like we could get rid of MmṀ seeing as how those were mostly for changing range generation when ranges started at 0

Radvylf Programs

So you can use j in a challenge that accepts lists as output, but using it for ones that want a joined string would still need an actual join operator in the code.

allxy

I think input-transformingis absolutely necessary, output-transforming is meh, program-transforming is mostly necessary

Unrelated String

02:01

~~i like the idea of going ham on output formatting flags simply to spite challenges that demand formatted output~~

Radvylf Programs

I think it should be made more clear that they're transforming a representation of the input/output into a datatype Vyxal can use. Allowing it to be either the literal string "[1, 2, 3]" or the list [1, 2, 3], for example, feels like you're getting double use out of an otherwise perfectly fine tool for providing input.

allxy

02:15

@lyxal We have a large amount of darkish blues already

Radvylf Programs

→ 37 messages moved to canvas

Dammit this always happens lol

Right as I clicked "choose" to move it to the canvas room the message loaded in lol

Unrelated String

lol

lyxal

words like indices and vertices always look like they need an i after the c

but they don't and that's always trippy to me

like indices is pronounced like there's a second i but spelled like someone managed to fit themselves inside some dice

Unrelated String

but it's just the plural of index

it's latin

pronounced horribly

lyxal

why tf would you pronounce "latin" as "horribly"?

dumbnut not knowing how to speak smh

oh hey it's funny number day

4/20

hehe nice

Radvylf Programs

02:29

It's also Hitler's birthday

So overall it cancels out

lyxal

gosh fricking dang it

des54321

counterpoint: its also the birthday of George Takei, aka Sulu from star trek

lyxal

CMP: Is an ellipse a circle that's been vertically squashed or horizontally stretched?

allxy

Neither

lyxal

well it's one of them

because a circle is an ellipse

so is it squashed or stretched?

allxy

02:35

No

lyxal

well with no thanks to you, I have concluded it can be either

hyper-neutrino

02:48

on the contrary

it is a circle that has been rotated and you are looking at it at an angle

allxy

^

lyxal

rotating a circle doesn't do anything

allxy

It does if you rotate it on the z/x axis

lyxal

That's getting too complex for my basic level analogy

my basic level analogy I wanted to use as an introductory sentence for a pagraph

lyxal

03:08

My watch just congratulated me for being active

I'm buttering bread

And then planning on being inactive again

Thank you Samsung very cool

allxy

03:55

Cursed idea: Compiling tinylisp to typescript types

Hm... you can express integers in binary, I think...

allxy

04:12

Okay, implementing the Y combinator in typescript

allxy

04:23

Gave up, then found this

Wait, is that for functions or for types? I can't tell :P

lyxal

05:34

A bird pooped and it landed on my hand yesterday.

My disdain used to be ideological

Now it's personal.

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms Have you seen this? tio.run/##y0osSyxOLsosKNHNy09J/f8/OT@vOD8nVS8nP11DI8/…

hyper-neutrino

→ 87 messages moved to CG&CC-gaming

just unfroze this room again

pxeger

(from the Roman numerals question)

Unrelated String

i love how small the loaded transcript is after all that got moved

pxeger

yesterday, by pxeger

You seem to be very adept and finding chrome bugs

Unrelated String

05:43

like there's half a page to scroll up

hyper-neutrino

lol yep

Unrelated String

@pxeger ...the fuck??

it seems to be something with variables in general and not just assignment expressions

python agrees with the literal version

Bubbler

There's something going on with the accuracy

Unrelated String

seems so

...i hope i used the right == there

Bubbler

Now this is a new area of magic formula - intentionally losing accuracy to get what you want

allxy

06:03

Maybe a side effect of floats???

Okay WTF

Firefox/safari think it's 2112/2, but Chrome agrees with Python in thinking that it's 3104/4

Unrelated String

and it looks like it's only a problem with exponentiating a variable in the first place

pxeger

I think it might be to do with constant folding

Unrelated String

that would make sense

pxeger

The V8 compiler is evaluating 9**50 at compile time, but x**50 at runtime because it doesn't know what x is at compile time?

Unrelated String

and the constant folder would some way or another compute it differently

allxy

06:17

That explains a lot, but seriously wtf

Unrelated String

is there something in Math or something for computing large powers correctly on the premise that ** won't

allxy

There's bigints but that defeats the point

PyGamer0

def sublists(x):
    # sublists: return all sublists of x
    sub = [[]]
    for i in range(len(x) + 1):
        for j in range(i):
            sub.append(x[i:j])
    return sub

CMC: Find the bug ^

pxeger

Probably an off by one error?

Oh no, it should be j:i

@UnrelatedString is there a Math.pow?

Unrelated String

that's what i was asking, hoping one of the js people here would know

but i guess i'll look it up lmao

yes

and it does not help

PyGamer0

06:24

@pxeger yep

@pxeger what the shit

Unrelated String

okay the standard says something about exponentiation being approximated by the implementation, so this is some behavior allowed but not prescribed by the standard (hence the inconsistency across browsers)

allxy

> Because pow() is a static method of Math, use it as Math.pow(), rather than as a method of a Math object you created. (Math has no constructor.)

Why does this need saying?

Unrelated String

probably there by default for all static methods but yeah what

allxy

@UnrelatedString There's Math.pow which is identical to **

pxeger

tc39.es/ecma262/multipage/…

Unrelated String

06:26

yyyep

presumably the reason a folded constant comes out differently than runtime evaluation is a choice to use a faster approximated exponentiation where performance is more likely to matter

still fucking weird that that's a thing though

allxy

06:41

> Blaze Fireball will deal knockback on impact (MCPE-82421)

I'm glad I didn't get 1.18.3 earlier

I've been affected by this bug

I assumed it was a feature lol

> Changed the spawning logic for Iron Golems and Cats

I really hope this doesn't frick up my iron farm

Unrelated String

07:04

i was about to say that a good proxy for quine properness is how trivially it can be modified into a metaquine but then i realized some if not most print-this-function functions probably print themselves formatted a particular way instead of as the exact string they were defined with

plus single expressions considered as full programs could just have whitespace or other nops added lmao

it seemed like some huge insight into a way to phrase the idea that something needs to encode more than itself by having something else not encode itself but yeah no

Sandbox Posts

07:26

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Make a PDF look scanned popularity-contestimage-processing Do you know the situation where you have to print some document, scan it and send the scan back? Let's automate that! Your task is making a program that, given some input, makes it believably look like it was scanned. A few people have do...

PyGamer0

08:02

gist.github.com/PyGamer0/d3f959b4a0a2c4b47b7113be56c61794

CMP: What should d and k do ^?

lyxal

double

And k should be from base

PyGamer0

@lyxal something more useful for d?

@lyxal ok nice

lyxal

08:18

@PyGamer0 grade down?

PyGamer0

08:29

gr does that

lyxal

08:44

From my experience, grade up and reverse doesn't always act the same.

allxy

08:56

@RadvylfPrograms When your server reboots while a node.js script is running, will any event listeners in that script be called before it ends?

PyGamer0

@lyxal example?

@lyxal square root?

lyxal

@PyGamer0 vyxal used to have grade down implemented as grade up + reverse but then there was a challenge here where it wasn't producing the same results as Jelly and APL

Unrelated String

@PyGamer0 ties

if you have equal elements grade up + reverse would reverse them but grade down would maintain their relative order afaik

allxy

Managed to get firefox to crash so hard that CSS animations stopped

Unrelated String

lmao

allxy

09:12

> since the current version of mathematics(v42.1 at the time of writing) supports simultaneous assignment

PyGamer0

what lol

allxy

> gigamatresses

> While this isn’t terribly helpful from a modelling perspective, we think it shows the right kind of attitude.

> We also make available a public copy of this repository which almost compiles.

PyGamer0

well i guess i should implement gist.github.com/PyGamer0/d3f959b4a0a2c4b47b7113be56c61794

allxy

> For the sake of brevity, all code comments, variables and function calls have been helpfully removed and replaced cross-platform, universally compatible ascii art.

@PyGamer0 What does "next function" mean?

PyGamer0

@allxy `+ pushes + to the stack

allxy

09:18

Okay, cool.

How exactly does the syntax for registers / ; work?

PyGamer0

@allxy 3AAA+ gives 6

3A puts 3 in A

allxy

Okay, cool

PyGamer0

3 .number3 ;number3 ;number3 +

allxy

I'm confused now

PyGamer0

.<name> stores into name

allxy

09:20

Okay cool.

PyGamer0

;<name> recalls from it

allxy

Why the two ; then?

PyGamer0

@allxy typo

allxy

Okay

PyGamer0

{{`+/}`#b%} .average

allxy

09:22

Okay, cool

So sorta Kish

PyGamer0

yeah

i want to implement this in C

and the style will be this ;P

allxy

Please don't become Arthur Whitney

PyGamer0

lol

@allxy how about this? :P

allxy

Write code that other people will understand

And that you in five years, will understand

Trying to implement your lang spec in Vyxal

Parsing is ... hard

New Posts

09:42

0

Q: How to write a python program for calculating shanon entropy for given data?

i have a given data set to calculate shanon entropy in python. dogfood catfeed wintercharm lovebirds

PyGamer0

@allxy wait you are trying to make it in vyxal?

allxy

Yep

Pretty much everything's transpilable, I just need to do a little parsing to handle ;. The rest can be done with regex

ophact

The disappointment one feels when they realize that the new question is not a challenge...

PyGamer0

can y'all guess what changed?

dont look at the commit message

allxy

Doesn't really matter

Unlesss...

Is this windows line endings to unix line endings?

PyGamer0

09:47

yes

allxy

@PyGamer0 What's drop in your spec?

tfw people who uunderstand it think it's more of a scam

PyGamer0

@allxy k's _, 1 1 2 3,,_z returns [2,3]

aka: 1_1 2 3 -> 2 3

-1_1 2 3 -> 1 2

allxy

Oh, so indices. Okay. Looks like 1-indexing?

PyGamer0

it drops n elements

2_1 2 3 4 → 3 4

allxy

So positive is from the start and negative is from the end? Okaty

PyGamer0

09:57

yeah

> Okaty

allxy

tpyo

@PyGamer0 What's bi?

PyGamer0

@allxy vyxal's parallel apply

allxy

Okay

Wrapping in a list or pushing both?

Or, wait... is this with functions?

PyGamer0

10:13

yea

51 mins ago, by PyGamer0

{{`+/}`#b%} .average

allxy

So pushing both, gotcha

PyGamer0

10:33

will this work?

@allxy did you finish?

allxy

Stopping for now, can't figure out how to b without some cursed eval shenanigans

PyGamer0

@allxy what do you have so far?

allxy

Not much

PyGamer0

11:05

@allxy i add an example program: gist.github.com/PyGamer0/…

New Posts

0

Q: Shortest possible code to generate the table used for calculating

Given this table and algorithm: /* Using a de Bruijn sequence. This is a table lookup with a 32-entry table. The de Bruijn sequence used here is 0000 0100 1101 0111 0110 0101 0001 1111, obtained from Danny Dube's October 3, 1997, posting in comp.compression.research. Thanks to Nor...

javascript fewest-operations

allxy

Idk if it's appropriate to edit tags and VTC but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DialFrost

11:54

Sup guys

Hows everyone?

Noice 4 mods online

Ginger

12:15

hello

DialFrost

grinding ELL lol

Ginger

@RadvylfPrograms what's going to happen to SE Nitro: The Comic? I'd hate to see it go

PyGamer0

12:49

argh idk how to make a reshape function

Ginger

13:06

@lyxal did you get yourself banned from campfire?

lyxal

no?

why?

Ginger

the banned file has an entry in it

I can't tell who it is because it stores a hash of the IP

lyxal

I did accidentally get muted

does that count?

Ginger

if you got kicked for spam then yup

you should be able to rejoin

lyxal

not kicked

just muted

Ginger

13:14

(bear in mind it's broken rn)

okay it wasn't you

I don't know who it was then

try reloading, it should work now

lyxal

Immediantly muted

feeling good

😎

Ginger

lemme try kicking you

hm

looks like it worked?

pxeger

13:32

Hmm, ATO's TLS certificate has expired, but Firefox still lets me connect to it

Radvylf Programs

@allxy So, that's actually a problem I've had in the past. It depends how the script is run. If it's in a screen session, it dies instantly, but if it's daemonized or whatever, it gets a SIG-something-or-other and has 10s to finish up tasks

@Ginger I don't know. I might start drawing it again over the summer or something.

I lost all of my old saved background images and stuff though, when I moved over to this chromebook, so it'll take a bit more work than I'd hope for

PyGamer0

meanwhile:

in flax, 6 mins ago, by PyGamer0

AAHAFIHSIFHOTSSAJRHYG|SLOKHYRALOKJH|RA:>LPOY&L:><OIUYTL<K:>GY>⌷⍪åRFD>:LO<<M^FK LOQAROIUYHQARIL:UHQARLIUYHQIOGHJTLKJAGTLJKYHRuoiawytaukhtgla\swlJHESLAHJ

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms I saw daemonized as demonetised for a moment and got really confused

Radvylf Programs

lyxal

can't believe you got striked in the terminal

this is like that time I got claimed for amogus drip

@Ginger also wow am I really that bad that you assume it's me as the first suspect?

graffe

13:42

CMC I have a python dict where both the keys and values are integers. Write code to print the dict exactly in the standard format but with the keys ordered by value.

DialFrost

Wut

Lol

My python so bad now cuz i nvr code so long

graffe

@DialFrost this is a coding site!

pxeger

@graffe Something like ato.pxeger.com/…

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms /srs for a second - why red and why a wolf? There's a multitude of colours and animal species out there, so why that specific combination?

Radvylf Programs

Well, red was my favorite color when I was 7. Wolf because wolves were my favorite animal when I was 7.

pxeger

13:49

And you've kept the same username for like 10 years?

lyxal

fair enough

Radvylf Programs

I was actually purplelion24 initially, then redwolf24, then redwolf10105 for my xbox gamertag, then redwolfprograms in 6th grade for my domain

graffe

@pxeger I like it

@pxeger you can’t “execute” on an iPad it seems on that site

pxeger

What happens when you click the button? Nothing at all?

Radvylf Programs

0

A: Should we make a room for TNB's off-topic discussions?

Make a room for off-topic discussion I support doing this, over using rooms for individual off-topic discussions. My reasoning is: Quite often, the off-topic discussion isn't really to do with a single topic. Making a whole room for, e.g., a 20m conversation about a typo someone made, just makes...

lyxal

13:52

@pxeger it turns gray and the circle just keeps spinning

graffe

It changes color and the buffering circle goes round and round as if it is doing something

lyxal

the result is never returned

graffe

@lyxal yes, that

pxeger

hmm

lyxal

@graffe are you using safari or something else?

because I tested in duckduckgo and it doesn't work

graffe

13:53

Chrome on ipad

but I think they are all the same under the hood on an ipad

lyxal

doesn't work in safari on ipad either

pxeger

All browsers on iOS have to use Safari WebKit because of Apple's policies

That's why there's no iOS Firefox

graffe

Right

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Wait what

I have Firefox for Mobile or whatever on my iPhone

pxeger

Oh there is

but that's why it doesn't use Gecko

graffe

13:56

Anyone here used reinforcement learning?

Radvylf Programs

Yes, on my cat :p

graffe

I am trying to learn how to solve optimization problems with it but am stuck

@RadvylfPrograms :)

Maybe it’s impossible :)

lyxal

the fun part about the barbershop is the part where they get the warm towel. The non-fun part about the barbershop is the part where you smell like the shaving products they used even after a shower

imo at least

lyxal

14:19

Hey wait why did YouTube decide they needed to make the like button animated when you tap it on mobile?

Tf kinda pizza are they eating over there?

caird coinheringaahing

Can we still move messages into frozen rooms, or do I have to unfreeze the bakery next time we get spam?

Lemme test it

Ugh, can't move it

pxeger

Can you move messages into Gallery rooms? I've occasionally wondered that

PyGamer0

what is a gallery room?

Radvylf Programs

@pxeger Only if you can talk in the room

pxeger

@PyGamer0 A room where only approved users can talk

Bgil Midol

14:33

@PyGamer0 A room where only specified users can talk.

caird coinheringaahing

E.g. JHT or The Bakery

PyGamer0

ok

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger similarly, I believe you can move messages into a private room only if you can talk in that private room, and I don't think you can move messages out of private rooms

pxeger

But an RO could just make the room public, move the messages out, and make it private again, surely?

Oh wait only mods can make rooms private (and presumably only mods can make private rooms public)

Radvylf Programs

ROs can make rooms private

ninja;d

caird coinheringaahing

14:35

Only mods can make rooms private

I believe tho that any RO of a private room can allow anyone access

Radvylf Programs

I made a somewhat useful program in my new esolang!

P p
R p p - 0
R 1 0 2 -
R 2 p 1 -
L 1
L 2
B 0 s
R s s 10 --
R 10 p - 12
R 10 p - 11
R 11 p - 12
R 1 p - 1p
R 1p 12 1 2

It makes a button that toggles which of two lights is on

PyGamer0

is there a turing machine esolang?

Radvylf Programs

Well from a certain perspective all (TC) esolangs could be turing machine esolangs with a bit of work :p

But there are turing machine code languages, yeah

PyGamer0

/:

@RadvylfPrograms link?

hyper-neutrino

this message was originally sent in CGCC's mod chat

← 1 message moved from The Twentieth Byte

pxeger

14:40

@PyGamer0 search on esolangs.org

hyper-neutrino

to be fair I am a mod so idk if that makes a difference

Radvylf Programs

@PyGamer0 Here's an example of an answer: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/48698/79857

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms why isnt it runnable?

CMC: Use this, compute the factorial of the input. The input is already on the tape.

use any base you like..

pxeger

can I use base 0, where there are no numbers, so a factorial function is a noop?

PyGamer0

yes

wait

oof

Ginger

14:55

@lyxal yes.

Romanp

I suspect a unary Turing machine would be easiest, but IDK the algorithm. Maybe remove one bit from the start, up a counter, multiply it by the result, then repeat until done?

PyGamer0

use base 2
copy the number to another location like: 1010|1010
decrement the right number, multiply with the left
^ do above until right number equals 1
halt

@Romanp ^ like that?

Romanp

Yeah, although I was figuring base-1 instead since it's easier to multiply.

PyGamer0

i search base 1, i the first result is sexual bases oof

o_o

@Ginger @RadvylfPrograms this is dead lol:

The Nineteenth Processor

A room to plan and create The Nineteenth Processor, a redstone...

Radvylf Programs

15:30

Introducing my new electrical-circuit-based esolang, SPDT!

PyGamer0

single pole double throw?

Radvylf Programs

Yep!

It's based around relays

PyGamer0

SPDT relays?

there should be a DePDeT, deca pole, deca throw switches :P

Radvylf Programs

@PyGamer0 How'd you guess? :p

PyGamer0

@RadvylfPrograms i used the power of E

where do i run it?

no tio? :(

Ginger

15:36

@RadvylfPrograms mah gawd

Radvylf Programs

Added docs to the gist

Ginger

that's cool

Radvylf Programs

radvylfprograms.com/spdt/index.html

^ Online interpreter for it

You can make any of the 8 main logic gates with one or two relays

Gotta take a test now though so o/

Ginger

\o

Radvylf Programs

15:57

Back

PyGamer0

CMP: Opinions on tuitions?

Radvylf Programs

For what? Private (grade) school? Public colleges? Private colleges?

The Nineteenth Processor

Transcript for