The Nineteenth Byte

This is all gpt3 generated btw

I know, it's in that uncanny valley where it's not complete gibberish but still weird af

But that's kinda true

@user Also the use of the word "frick" as a noun. I'm pretty sure "commit frick" is not normal English. :P

wdym, didn't you learn that idiom in first grade? :P

12:07 AM

@user "LSD Church" sounds like a version of the church that is much cooler than any possible version they could think of :P

@user Yes, but only because I went to a school that offered Lyxal as a Second Language

Actually, next time someone invites me to church, I should say yes and take a tab of acid as communion :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing it takes the term "high priest" to a whole different level :p

5

So I just reread this flag discussion and this older flag discussion, and my response has ballooned into something of an essay. What's the best place to post it? An answer to an existing meta question? A new meta question? A GitHub gist?

(I should add that it's not a very constructive response. The main conclusion is that a coherent policy on flags is impossible.)

Sharing it here (e.g. in a gist) is probably best, if you don't intend for it to be an actual answer

If you think that the site/meta would benefit from discussion about it, then as a Q or an A would work

12:21 AM

Okay, I'll start with the gist + link approach and then if people think it should be on meta after they read it, I can post it there too.

@lyxal Ah, is that what they meant when they referred to kings as "Your Highness"? :P

@user exactly :p

@DLosc If you want to introduce changes to the current flag policy, you could probably go on meta (although caird's suggestion of first trying a gist is probably best)

For example: look at Redwolf's flag opinions :P

Redwolf clearly has strong opinions on flag usage. However, he's never written those down into either a Q or A, because (AFAIK) he believes that his opinion isn't likely to change how we as a site consider flags

(Feel free to correct me if I'm misrepresenting your opinions, Redwolf)

12:56 AM

@RedwolfPrograms thank you for doing my job for me

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Silly Sentence Generator, Fast Inverse Square Root //evil floating point bit level hacking

2:34 AM

Confucius says: "understanding patriots"

4:36 AM

oh yeah i have flags planned for dinoux

^ @RedwolfPrograms is that legal?

@cairdcoinheringaahing That's a pretty fair summary. I mostly agree that our current method is the among the fairest possible, although it's still quite bad.

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced It's allowed, but please don't

Please

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced do it

Do it

i will do it

good

4:38 AM

Just warning, you I will downvote every flag abusing answer

the --log is useful for debugging

@RedwolfPrograms yeah we know

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Those flags are fine

It's ones like "join output with newlines" that can be abused more easily

example question?

FizzBuzz

Outputting a list of lines and using a flag to join them with newlines is very clearly cheating

But technically allowed

4:40 AM

I'd say it's borderline

i dont have strings

@emanresuA It's about the cheatiest you can get IMO

@RedwolfPrograms it wouldnt even work like that

The challenge explicitly does not allow returning a list of lines, which is what the program itself does

Most challenges allow outputtiing an array of lines instead of a string anyway though

4:41 AM

Using a flag is just offloading required work into the flags

@emanresuA ^^^

Bubbler

Protip: Don't solve fizzbuzz in your language

well but if the top is [49, 10, 50, 10, 70, 105, 112, 122, 10, 52]

@Bubbler HQ9+F, 1 byte

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Then use proper output and join commands in the code itself

then the `-j` flags does:
49
10
50
10
70
105
112
112
10
52

which isnt fizzbuzz

4:44 AM

Well sure, but there's more than one challenge you can abuse flags on

example?

If in one specific scenario with one specific flag you can't cheat on FizzBuzz, you're just like every other language

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Quite a few kolmos

Requiring outputting as a newline separarated string isn't super uncommon for those

I'd rather not get into the flag argument now, but please...please don't add them

It's not funny and it's not cool anymore

It's just edginess for the sake of edginess

well its helpful; and you need another command to output as chars

Sure it's helpful, in the same way that breaking your opponent's legs is helpful in a race

-p and -P are for testing

4:47 AM

The testing ones are fine

-N is cursed

@RedwolfPrograms You've helped continue some of it...

-a is for the online interpreter

@emanresuA lol it's funny because that's something we're actually going to do

Why not just jeeo those ones, and get rid of ones like j?

Flags for debugging are good and perfectly okay

4:48 AM

how is a random joke message about vyxal's excessive flags from august 10th "contributing" to flag overusage and how did you even find that

@lyxal Yes

Bubbler

I just read overusage as "oversausage"

6

@hyper-neutrino Because I remembered that, and because we're actually implementing it

#223 goes brr

You realize you're basically parodying your own language?

4:50 AM

> I've converted this to a full issue because it seems like quite a big feature request and will need discussion

comments: 0

depending on what exactly this flag does that... might almost be not as insane as i thought?

@RedwolfPrograms By implementing a joke I made about how transparently cheaty and over-specific some of Vyxal's flags are?

also the -t flag will change it to a tacit language :P

language flags are only helpful in language challenges where encoding data not from english is the whole point in the challenge so nvm

Ok, let's just implement the opposite of what Redwolf says now.

4:51 AM

Add lots of flags and take this out of context

@hyper-neutrino Might help with compression in certain cases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Add j

Add s

@RedwolfPrograms I can't wait to quote this out of context

@lyxal vyxal should really have a flag that changes the paradgrim of the language

Why?

4:52 AM

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced now that's just ridiculous

I'd have to plan, specify, design and play with a whole new language concept

It took me half a year to get a basic feel of the stack paradigm

no just make a separate interpreter with the same code page

Oh easy

Give me ten minutes :p

i considered that for yuno so i could use the same built-in set but either stack or tacit so i could try out both but decided against it because tacit languages will be weaker in some situations and that's something my language's users (so, nobody) should deal with

and depending on the flag just switch

37 secs ago, by lyxal

I'd have to plan, specify, design and play with a whole new language concept

4:54 AM

it's easier to make a tacit language stack-based than vice versa

@RedwolfPrograms vyelly?

vyxal + jelly?

because with stack-based languages you really only have to consider two things; 1. how to load STDIN onto the stack, and 2. whether 1 2 - is -1 or 1

@hyper-neutrino easy, everyone prefers ¯1

actually vyxal is tacit

I have some new ideas for the stack paradigm coming soon

4:55 AM

@hyper-neutrino yeah, most stack languages are

mhm

at least, Wikipedia considers stack languages tacit

@RedwolfPrograms Quite a few golfs it'll allow for

because stack based is postfix, just transpose the operator to prev

i mean they do not refer to their arguments explicitly. therefore it is tacit

4:55 AM

@RedwolfPrograms The advantages of tacit, with the usability of stack based

Stay tuned for more

and no stack-based is not equivalent to postfix

^

@hyper-neutrino ?

Postfix is a subset of stack-based

then which is correct 1 2-

4:57 AM

*sigh* ok postfix just means that operators come after their arguments

postfix is also not a subset of stack-based and neither is it vice versa because they aren't related

stack-based is a memory model, postfix is a parsing structure

51AC8, 4 bytes: 1 2-; ¯1

A car is a subset of a road

2

By that logic :p

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced ?

Also it was my birthday today!

@hyper-neutrino it outputs ¯1

5:01 AM

@RedwolfPrograms happy birthfay!

Got a 3d printer

@RedwolfPrograms happy birthfay!

@RedwolfPrograms you're finally catching up to us ;p

@hyper-neutrino i got ninja;d

Happy birthday! You're old now!

5:01 AM

@RedwolfPrograms do you have any ideas for what you're going to print already :p

Also...the fact that I'm now old enough that I'd be allowed to drive if I got a license is terrifying

@RedwolfPrograms good now print benchy the boat

how old is that again; i forgor

@hyper-neutrino Parts to improve the 3d printer :p

@hyper-neutrino 16

~~smol child~~ wow ur old now

5:02 AM

59 secs ago, by emanresu A

Happy birthday! You're old now!

@RedwolfPrograms 16

which country?

US

i read that as the word us oof

I read it as SUS

sus indeed

sus us

susus

sausage?

5:04 AM

ayo is anyone here from Silver Spring Maryland?

Because I just got a call from a number from america

@lyxal SSM -> solid state machine

which is weird, because I live in Australia

@lyxal redwolf called you?

I live in Texas :p

5:05 AM

oh

yeah redwolf is in the yeehaw state

How would Redwolf know your phone number?

wait

@emanresuA ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@emanresuA 911 is @lyxal's phone number

please call him now

5:06 AM

When I was 4 I told my super religious cousin that if you dialed 911 you could talk to god

@RedwolfPrograms and...

I did participate in a fair bit of trolling

FBI Open UP

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced idiot. The New Zealand emergency number is 111

@lyxal so 7?

5:07 AM

7?

yes 7 base 2

@RedwolfPrograms (it's called we do a little trolling)

att

how do you remember things from when you were 4

how do I repeat certain stuff

@Niko depends on what you're trying to repeat

5:09 AM

@att I actually don't remember it unfortunately, I was told about it a few years back

@Niko do you mean loop the code?

@Niko ɾṘ3(⁽ɾMf)Ṙ

oh

thanks master lyxal

vɾ instead of ⁽ɾM

Is this triple countdown thingy?

yes

Anyway, it's getting a little late here so o/

5:12 AM

is there auto flat? :P

i am more into the flag cult

consider: just put computation in your code

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

5:30 AM

Lol I still have jira on my phone from when we tried to use it for issue organisation

Sandbox Posts

0

Khinchin's constant bad estimate Inspired by How to write down numbers having an infinity of decimals? Link 🇫🇷 Background From Wikipedia: for almost all real numbers x, coefficients ai of the continued fraction expansion of x have a finite geometric mean that is independent of the value of x an...

@lyxal oh yeah that

that went about as well as everyone expected it seems lol

i was hoping it'd do smth but i am not surprised it went unused

7:00 AM

> 69 instructions, implemented by 212 operation codes

nice

Neil

7:53 AM

should be 420 operations overloaded onto 69 bytes

yes

CMQ: Can anyone guess which microprocessor is that ^^

can't guess but I can google it :P

@rak1507 so what did you find?

WDC 65C02

@rak1507 correct.

8:13 AM

CMQ: Is there a way to set the prompt of bc?

recompile with the prompt changed?

hm where is the source?

if you're using gnu bc, gnu.org/software/bc

that was mostly joking though you probably don't want to have to recompile something

i am using msys2 bc

you could also try editing the executable with a hex editor of your choice but things might break maybe lol

8:18 AM

@rak1507 wha

WHAT

bruh idk .exe formats

find where the prompt string is stored, edit it to something else

now how do i complie the thing lol

does it use some other build system?

i think i got it

nice

step 1: i generated the makefiles sucessfully

after changing a single value in the Makefile; it errors

well time to build again

C:\Users\NOPE\Desktop\stuff\bc-1.07.1\bc/execute.c:296: undefined reference to 'random'

ok i give up

8:45 AM

Hello

o/

9:35 AM

@RedwolfPrograms You got a 3D printer for your 16th birthday?!

9:57 AM

assumption: caird lives in US

11:19 AM

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced You've assumed wrong :P

11:47 AM

To all the Reinstate Monica users out there:

Hiho - Who's Monica

39 5

'night

New Posts

12:08 PM

0

Q: Longest Uncommon Substring

For the purposes of this challenge a substring \$B\$ of some string \$A\$ is string such that it can be obtained by removing some number of characters (possibly zero) from the front and back of \$A\$. For example \$face\$ is a substring of \$defaced\$ \$ de\color{red}{face}d \$ This is also call...

code-golf string

Wheat Wizard

12:36 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing btw your query here: data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/1410902/… just outputs the same user over and over again.

I also don't think it's accurate at all.

12:48 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing britain? cananda?

@WheatWizard Dennis is just that good

Wheat Wizard

I think you mean the Dennises are just that good.

Yes, all of the Dennis are fabulous.

@WheatWizard Are you sure? 3196% sounds accurate to me :P

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced One of those, yes :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing canada

Wheat Wizard

12:55 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well we should probably open a bug with meta.se because it looks like Dennis hasn't received the 31 socratic badges!

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced UK :P

1:29 PM

Morning!

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yep!

Having to go to school while I have a half assembled 3d printer at home is very painful :p

1:52 PM

Well if you're schooling, I'm sleeping

o/

o/

Anush

silly question but if I want to do max(abs(a), abs(b)) what is the smallest number of comparisons needed to compute the answer (without using max or abs)?

just "if" and comparisons

One, right?

Oh wait

abs

Probably three

3

Anush

how would you do it?

2:02 PM

The normal way

var pa = a < 0 ? -a : a;
var pb = b < 0 ? -b : b;

return pa < pb ? pb : pa;

If you count using a ternary operator as two comparisons for some reason, you can make a return-early abs function and use that, then a return-early max.

I think the mobius sudoku is ready for public consumption; does anyone care to provide any final feedback before it goes live?

Additionally, would it be better to post today or next Monday based on traffic?

I just want to do the post justice for the original poster

Anush

2:30 PM

@RedwolfPrograms thanks!

I was hoping there might be an optimization...oh well

That moment when you press i to go into insert mode, but you're using notepad++. :/

I know this post is old, and it's helping me learn, but it's also one that generates opinionated answers. Flagged it as such to prevent any future opinionated answers.

Still a great post

Oh wow, I didn't see the stack of "Tips for golfing in X" posts

So my flag is likely moot then?

Is there a way to rescind it if so?

2:57 PM

i made something useful

3:14 PM

Wait...are you PyGamer0?

I'm so stupid

@Tacoタコス You can, by navigating to your flag dashboard /users/user_id/flagging I believe, but it's in the review queues now, so I doubt that'll do anything

Tips for golfing in X are on topic here, as answers have to provide some way of showing that their tip would actually shorten code in some way. Answers that dont show some form of golfing advice (e.g. "you can make your code look fancier by using Unicode characters instead of letters in Python") aren't acceptable answers tho, so "opinion-based" wouldn't apply

@Tacoタコス I suggest loosening the output rules, and using standard decision-problem output

For example, 1/0 for true/false, or "non-zero integer"/"zero" etc.

3:38 PM

I originally had it that way but was advised that it might be better to change it; I think the output should be whatever truthy and falsey values the language you're working in would use, so long as answerers explain how their truthy and falsey values work

That way answerers can work with their native boolean types

4:04 PM

@RedwolfPrograms wait

so you thought i was someone else?

i thought you knew who i was lmao

4:28 PM

I figured you were someone I knew about who'd changed their name, but I didn't really think too hard about it :p

5:05 PM

I love how in the Featured on Meta section, we currently have the following headline: "Profile image changes (TL/DR: You won't be able to switch back to your old..."

When the TL/DR summary is so long that it gets cut off...

We need a TLDTLDR

"Like your Gravatar? Don't change your email"

How is Jelly's Ẏ different from F? Is F recursive?

F is "deep flatten" ([[[1,2],[3,4]],[5,6],[7,8]] -> [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8]), Ẏ flattens by one depth level ([[[1,2],[3,4]],[5,6],[7,8]] -> [[1,2],[3,4],5,6,7,8])

Ah, ok

5:18 PM

Sep 20 at 13:34, by Aaron Miller

I'll tell you guys my horrible idea if/when I do it.

Why is Jelly's U so weird?

https://tio.run/##vVXbcppQFH3N8OJMHs6LL8aAeImRizeMGgw2jW1TzaW2SRMjEYwgCCo1YDQf0i/o1/UX7AEkEy9pMtOZjg4H9l6ss/beCxjNZqquET6VR@ChZR8EBPGphn2Qfv/8Za8a0jRwwUJxnS2AzWCMBMjEUnBDzw0TeALHEyJAGmW8xYHNQqvDD6jeIIxvxvEIQIDf3whKHM7Du7USzPcGlA0JQx6MSqUdiKpBkMnhkqWYK6z8Ait4Rmtxq6LU8TJBc3z6bNvwIlOCjsSWQhgdJZl0lo4428AylwUQTwLG3Bu6IryoX3799vX3skZHNSyULZBkfGgMFLFntxOmJAL4G6bTbKMKQ69CYU6RzZpGEgRASIICCEWRwN/tdm1RhCPqSZ5sKVOXtWmUAsAnByB/a@XXbgT7FioI3ef/smo4jewD/3LRpwuu6Hvd0bmmocz1vSCmW3LUQHCLE4Sc1A7Y1xtFWEZPG6iBbgVSOyGMhqwA@DQvkHADsD8AERUPX6vaMVkW4LIBEz2AQHKDa/CuJ2LAp0TTqTTpnFBkNuOcZCjGDSRdRHaed7NuDmb8zjjt7d0K2xz…

I think I'm going to go lie down now.

@RedwolfPrograms Is it designed that way on purpose, or just a consequence of Jelly's vectorization?

It's designed that way

In fact, U' was the only way to flat reverse a list for a while

@AaronMiller For anyone wondering, it's a not-quite-functioning Malbolge interpreter. There's still a few bugs to work out.

5:22 PM

@AaronMiller That is a horrible idea! Good job! :D

3

\o/

According to my Jelly corpus, ³ has been used 333 times

5:44 PM

What would be a good golfing language to start with, coming from C#?

You could try Pip, although it's an older (less golfy) one

any of them really, but github.com/jcoehoorn/SlimSharp might interest you?

I've heard good things about Husk, and there's Jelly of course if you want a challenge

I'd say that previous programming lang experience doesn't really impact it

@RedwolfPrograms Oh that's nice

Thanks!

5:47 PM

Aside from the obvious APL/J -> Jelly, most langs would be a completely new start

@RedwolfPrograms trying to find some resources for learning and compiling jelly lol

@rak1507 This is what I was saying was nice earlier lol

I'd recommend HN's JHT site

I misdirected my response lol

Jelly Hypertraining

Practice your Jelly :) Rules and stuff are here: golfingsucces...

1

Sorry about that

5:48 PM

jht.hyper-neutrino.xyz IIRC

That has lots of resources and a TIO page

You can download the Jelly interpreter, which is what I did, but it's not really necessary honestly

The online ones are just as good

HN's JHT site is a really good page

I only downloaded it to work on my fork / answers that time out

Thank you all for the resources and recommendations! :)

Gotta go write some unit tests, back in a bit :D

Imagine testing your code :p

@RedwolfPrograms More like making it where our implementation team can focus on feature testing instead of everything testing lol

Why test your code when you can just write the whole thing all at once and then spend hours picking it apart to find the one ^ that you forgot to include, only to realize that it's still not working because you don't actually understand how Malbolge works, and no mom, I can't go take out the trash, I'VE ALMOST GOT IT WORKING!

...uh, hypothetically.

6:01 PM

The "no mom, I can't go take out the trash" is too real :p

"It'll interrupt my work flow, I'm really in the zone atm!" :P

if more people get recommended to my site i might have to make it actually good now, uh oh (:P)

other than the fact that it's totally broken on mobile i'm pretty happy with it, jokes aside

7:40 PM

Privacy Policy has been updated (though this post does not contain the changes, you have to go check it yourself).

Made final adjustments to the output section of the Mobius Sudoku challenge; if anyone cares to review it. Hopefully that meets everyone's needs now.

8:04 PM

does anyone have any idea how to use input redirection in conjunction with xargs lol

something | xargs program < xyz will make xyz's contents go to the arguments which isn't what i want

never mind i have figured it out (for my specific usage case)

Well I just finished memorizing my bitlocker key

@hyper-neutrino They're really going for the whole "wall of text" strategy... They could put "BTW, we know where you live" or something at the bottom and it'd take a while for anyone to notice.

oh pxeger made a nice diff here

8:20 PM

> Stack Overflow emails use Javascript for email tracking of opens, clicks, and unsubscribes or may contain a small, invisible, one pixel image which can be used to let us know when the email is opened or forwarded.

Why do they need that, and how long has it existed before they bothered to tell people about it?

Marketing research or something I guess

@hyper-neutrino At first, I thought: Oh cool, that'll be a lot easier to read! Then I started reading it. The changes are so pervasive that the diff doesn't help that much. :/

yep

Dammit, Firefox's builtiin tracking content can't find it

Neither can Duckduckgo

Unrelated String

@user true

8:25 PM

i mean if you want to block it you'd have to disable all images from rendering automatically in your email client

there is no way to identify if an image is tracking your IP, when you open the email, etc

incidentically, this can also be exploited to cause security holes on SE itself, which has been public knowledge for like 11 years

If it's from a source outside of Google's image hosting platform...

this is one thing i like about discord

it just takes image links and downloads it itself and puts it onto its cdn

so trackers get precisely one click from discord and then clients loading it take it from discord's cdn. which probably also tracks you but w/e

At least it's Discord tracking you and not whoever feels like doing so

Unrelated String

8:42 PM

correction, it was our fourth day
day 1 was some general context stuff then just individually querying predicates that are only defined with facts (can't remember if we had variables in the queries at that point or not)
day 2 definitely had variables and i think it introduced , and ; but unsurprisingly i took virtually no notes
day 3 definitely had predicates defined with rules
and then we did actually cover arithmetic by the end of day 4 where the very end of day 4 was the class being asked what kind of data structure seems likely to underlie operator expressions and the expected answer wa…

10:02 PM

Um, aren't captchas meant to be doable by humans...

Neil

10:12 PM

Thunderbird can warn you about tracking images in emails, can't it?

10:26 PM

@RedwolfPrograms You can't just hop into a car and start driving, kid, you need to actually train first

That said, my skills test consisted only of parking in two different ways :P

Make the car fear you!

I fear the car, the pedestrians fear me :P

CMQ: What did you have to do to be allowed to drive?

@hyper-neutrino I like how it's something nobody should deal with, but actually saying that it's "something nobody should deal with" completely changes the meaning :P

@lyxal lol, was it for the warranty on your car?

@user pass a written test about road rules basically which gave me a G1 which lets me drive if someone who has had a full license for 4+ years is next to me

Pretty much the same here

10:42 PM

the first driving test consisted of basically just driving around the area and parking which gave me my G2 which lets me drive alone, or with someone with a license on highways

There's more?

and eventually i'll do another test which will contain a highway portion which will give me my full license, which i have to do within 5 years of getting my G1 or it expires

That sounds a lot saner

@user yes it goes written test → G1 → local road test → G2 → highway test → G

Even pre-COVID, we just had a multiple choice test for a learner's permit which seems to work like your G1 and then a single skills test to let you drive pretty much anywhere on your own

10:47 PM

huh, i see

Oh yeah there's an eye test too

ah. my license does say on it that i require corrective lenses to drive but i think they just take that info off of my optometrist; i don't recall them doing a test when i got my license

11:19 PM

@Tacoタコス (shameless self promotion): vyxal is also good for a first golfing language; it's got things like variables and explicit loops and other programming constructs that you'd be used to, as well as (mostly) everything a golfing language needs

@user warranty? Why tf would I need warranty when I don't drive at all

I mean, I've had about 6 or 8 lessons, and I could drive if I wanted, but I don't want to

It was a joke, I always get calls about "my car's warranty" and my SSN and stuff

It's always fun when "the IRS" leaves you a voicemail to tell you they're after you and you need to pay up :P