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00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
@lyxal That's great and all, but Kite isn't even a LaTeX IDE/editor lol
@cairdcoinheringaahing well that's quite convenient :p interesting
12:12 AM
@user It's good to live in Taiwan lol
we have tea production (although i don't drink tea)
1 hour later…
1:14 AM
@RedwolfPrograms You know what? You've convinced me.
1:26 AM
It's nice to have -p (that's the one that pretty-prints, right?) be the default, but some of the others look like they'd only ever be used for debugging and aren't too essential for most challenges
The formatting stuff would just move into the header/footer instead of the flags section
I think you should keep the flags, and just discourage their use in actual answers, since they're good for debugging or using pip as a practical language (which it might be quite good for once you're familiar with it).
Maybe add two byte operators that do what the flags did
For ones that don't already exist
And would be useful in golfing
If one of the I/O formatting flags does give you an edge in a challenge, that probably means something's wrong with the challenge's I/O restrictions
Not necessarily
Kolmo challenges, for example
1:28 AM
@user I've used -l, -s, and -S pretty often for challenges. -P is probably most useful for debugging, true. -n is useful in theory, but I don't know if I've ever used it--usually -l is sufficient.
@RedwolfPrograms I thought we'd already established that "discourage their use" is not an approach that works when it comes to something that might be a bit cheaty but decreases the bytecount. :P
The point of this proposal is that you get the same functionality as the flags, without (ab)using flags.
I mean, languages like C have flags that can run arbitrary code in zero bytes, but those are never used because they're obviously cheaty. If you specified in big scary bold font that Pip's flags are for debugging only and answers (ab)using them will be downvoted, they probably wouldn't be used.
Your idea is a pretty cool way to handle it though. I do think maybe they'd be better if they were at the end.
That gives you lots more options
@DLosc Ah, but it also wastes bytes, which goes against the first rule of Code Golf: mak smol
But it doesn't contradicts the zeroth rule
Which is don't cheat
⎕IO←1 What zeroth rule? :P
@RedwolfPrograms "A robot must not harm the human race or by inaction allow the human race to come to harm"?
1:48 AM
I thought of the idea: would the problem "Given following snippets, just combine them to make a program that does the following program. You can use same snippet as many times as you can" be a good idea for cobs ans robbers? Example: for ppencode and ppencode-like.
W..why tf is onlyfans now advertising to gamers?
@nrgmsbki4spot1 So the cop would provide snippets Aba, daf and cbc to output DAFABACBC in Language X, and the robber could crack it by finding the program dafAbacbc, which outputs that?
@lyxal wdym
2:11 AM
I saw it on a reddit ad while browsing r/deltarune for memes about the alternate route
2:29 AM
@user Yes. Should the program be for an OEIS sequence, for example? I guess I should be on sandbox.
That could work, sandboxing is a good idea
2:50 AM
Q: Multiplication table for geometric algebra

YijapodThe basis vectors for geometric algebra are They all square to 1 (we do not consider vectors which square to -1 or zero) They are associative and anticommutative For example, this product is simplified to (note that the simplified product is sorted by index of e) Challenge if a product of ba...

3:38 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

YijapodI already posted this question here, but I didn't knew about the sandbox. What motivates this question is that this kind of code, available on Internet on many places, is always cumbersome, and is evident that an efficient code should be little more than a XOR operation, but that "little more" is...

meanwhile, this is what my commit messages for private repos look like:
for comparison, an example of my commit messages to public repos:
Sometimes I wonder about you...
I was trying to look for an out of context message of yours to say "this you" to try and make a counterargument but I got lazy and now I just can't be bothered.
4:01 AM
4:12 AM
CMC: get the banana 🍌
@emanresuA ~~~~~^
4:41 AM
@emanresuA that doesnt even look like a banana on my computer
@emanresuA n is not a valid hexadigit
well nothing is happening in my class
5:19 AM
kris get the banana
5:32 AM
@Niko potassium
6:01 AM
just read the latest CCGC blog and felt fascinated!
…while on class
i joined on mid 2021 i think
approximately, yes (profile says 6mo ago, so closer to early-mid 2021)
so ccgc havent change much after i join
i don't recall there being much significant change in my time as a mod, has there?
6:26 AM
discord doesnt have links?
not in normal messages, only in embeds
probably to avoid people getting phished or clicking malicious links by accident (even though it warns you on every new domain)
so as you can see i am not developing dinoux
@hyper-neutrino not really...only just new room owners, the introduction of a biweekly golfing event and a (what I think is weekly) language learning event, the reintroduction of blog posts, a whole bunch of users hitting 10k and the growth of new golfing languages (both usage and development)
So, nah, I'd say nothing much has changed :p
Except for profile layouts
Those have definitely changed
6:34 AM
oh i guess some stuff has changed around the network but specifically to our site policy / major historical events, not really
new ROs, yes, and new events
And a wiki
Don't forget the wiki
Hello again, fellow humans.
@hyper-neutrino also, yeeting out the default feeds and replacing them with bots
Some of tehm
@emanresuA i dont think @lyxal is a human
6:39 AM
so pretty much all of the changes were chat lol
@hyper-neutrino ._. Basically
We have a few tiny changes (new tags, etc)
( and co)
2 hours later…
8:39 AM
CMC: Decipher: ··· ··- ···
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Can we take that as ["...","..-","..."]?
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Extended Dyalog APL, 6 bytes: ⌂morse Try it online!
9:01 AM
Vyxal, 4 bytes: `SUS
that's kinda sus
Yo guys, I created a little fun puzzle for my school's event, you guys wanna try it?
9:17 AM
remember, it's meant for 8~11th grade
I'm not entirely sure where to start, but I'll give it a shot.
It's pretty straight forward
@Niko i am 8~11th grade
any feedback is welcomed :P
what is that problem?!
i dont understand
9:21 AM
yes, it's a puzzle
You can download the file
Oh, that's a nice puzzle.
(I figured it out)
is it too hard? or too easy?
Also, little interesting thing: I linked Origin with wikipedia so that anyone can know what origin means
Neither, it's just a nice puzzle.
sounds good for me
actually, do you want another one?
it's harder according to last year's result
9:37 AM
If it's fairly different from this one, sure!
@hyper-neutrino If you hover your mouse of the "Member for" text, it tells you to the exact second when a user joined :P
Niko joined at 4:51am (UTC time), on the 24th of March, 2021 :P
that's 2pm for me
> youknow,iwasreallyboredwheniwasworkingonit.thisiswhyiamwritingthismessagehere.bytheway,youwillgetnothingevenifyouseethis.sinceihaven‘tfinished,i‘lltellyoc-{DeUOVJ\m~y"xk=CD
What a red herring.
that's wrong one :P
you are on the right way
9:41 AM
Yeah I found the correct one with the power of Vyxal.
Last part was for chaining the puzzle
Now I just need to figure out how to use caird's Enigma Machine.
@hyper-neutrino Let's take a look at the scoreboard: the highest voted posts on meta since you became a mod are the blog posts, the RO election, the revival of LOTM, a few questions, a few posts asking about improving areas that are lacking (new users, voting culture, accepted answers)
So, at least publicly, there hasn't been a massive amount of mod action taken, but that's mostly normal tbh, given that mods are, sort of by design, supposed to be more hands off once elected when it comes to community stuff
@Niko 23/6/1912, and what's the polynomial for?
Its solutions are x=2 and x=3
9:50 AM
it's for chaining the puzzle
There was second puzzle
also, you are the fastest person to solve this puzzle
in last year's event, it took 3~4day for 1 person to solve it
and it was the second puzzle of the event
with no one solving the next one(which is chained with this one)
10:05 AM
and also to mention that the event was provided with prize
Ironically, browsers.stackoverflow.design does not have any favicon.
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced beep boop
@Niko I just saw "Third time's the trick", and tried getting every third letter. Then, I plugged it into an online Enigma Machine, and did some quick googling.
10:28 AM
people just dont understand that title actually means something
2 hours later…
12:41 PM
Planning to do lots of work on RTO today
Leaving for school a little early since there's a cat I can pet along the route to my bus stop o/
12:54 PM
so physical schools have started for everyone except mine
There have never been 8 words and a species of clams that I have resented more since playing deltarune chapter 2
I also now hate shady businessmen
I started replaying chapter 1 yesterday and I'm really excited to play chapter 2
You'll like it
It feels real trippy at times, but it's amazing
Except for when you do the non pacifist route
That sucks towards the end
imma do both then
Because I'm yet to beat the alternate route
@AaronMiller just a heads up, avoid anything mentioning the "snow grave" route
Before you play ch 2 I mean
Because stuff containing that term will contain spoilers
1:10 PM
€M€: Write a program that does matrix Multiplication
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced +.× :P
1:25 PM
does @vyxal haVe a built in for this?
Original cat was a no show, but I found not one but two others along the way
@RedwolfPrograms your school got over?
No, I'm at school now
Most of my CGCC-related activity is during school
1:27 PM
oh; wait you have a phone?
No (well yes, but that's not the reason :p)
I just finish my work early
And/or put it off until it's way too late
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced example?
@lyxal thx, will do
1:30 PM
@Adám what if you used only plain dyalog apl?
@AaronMiller w..ok [[1,0],[0,1]]×[[2,2],[3,4]]=[[2,2],[3,4]]
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Vyxal, 2 bytes: ÞṀ
@RedwolfPrograms same, hi from stats
last year it was economics, this year it's stats
my scheduled TNB time
you are allowed to chat while class?
well.... if the teacher doesn't see they can't stop me :P
Better than stealing toilets
1:39 PM
@rak1507 wat
My teachers either don't know or don't care, and I'm guessing it's mostly the second
If I get my work done and I'm not distracting anyone else, there's not really any reason to disallow it
so ya'll have your own phones
i dont
1:49 PM
I do, but I don't really use it
Imagine it being day time
Made by 10 to midnight gang
Also made by leaving to go sleep because I'm half delirious and almost at the point of making incomprehensible sh*tposts (as compared to my usual daytime ones)
@lyxal correction: 7pm to midnight gang
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah, okay. so a couple of improvements and a bunch of new events + the ROs, but no serious site changes. yeah that's what i remember
and yeah a site having large amounts of public mod activity is... usually not a good thing, sort of how having an abnormally high white blood cell count doesn't mean you're healthy (weird analogy)
Or how if you look out your window and there's a whole bunch of police cars and military vehicles it doesn't mean the neighborhood is particularly safe
1:58 PM
that's... a significantly better analogy (at least IMO) :P
wats IMO? (inside math out?)
In My Opinion
2:16 PM
@RedwolfPrograms That's a much better attitude than any of my teachers had :/
Except the maths department, they were chill
@hyper-neutrino One of the weird things about our old mods (by which I mean Martin, Dennis, Doorknob and Alex) was that they were also key drivers of site policy and rules. But that wasn't because they were mods, in fact a lot of people said they supported/voted for them because of their roles in setting site policy
Kinda like if your local representative was also the police chief :P
@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Try it online!
2:54 PM
Introducing: Government-as-a-Service. For $200/month, you can get our basic package, providing one free emergency call per month, basic military protection, and various rights. For an added $300, you can upgrade to out PRO package get public education, voting, and a subscription to HBO Max.
You can also try out our mix-and-match plan, where you only pay for the rights you need.
Honestly this seems like a good idea and nothing will go wrong
don't give the us gov't any ideas
3:15 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Isn't this just lobbying?
Or, lobbying + taxes? Where taxes cover the basic rate, and then you can lobby to get things you want by paying more
It's basically taxes, sort of
But you can choose if you want to pay them
And how much
Basically "only give rights to rich people"
@lyxal I finally found an out of context message
Jul 7 at 18:45, by Redwolf Programs
I've been trying for years but I can't get any trombone oil out of my trombone
@RedwolfPrograms This you?
Jul 7 at 18:47, by Redwolf Programs
"Wiggle the trombone" is the best sentence in english
TIL .length can be used to get the arity of a JS function
3:49 PM
CMQ: Things you like and dislike about TIO or ATO's UIs
\o/ Today I actually used Vyxal for my job
@AaronMiller explain...
@RedwolfPrograms Not sure if it's a "UI" bit, but not being able to insert null bytes on TIO
Hmm, interesting.
Would having a way to input as a hexdump or JSON string or something help?
Being able to specify the input (or rather, that any text input area) was an xxd style hexdump would be good
3:57 PM
@AncientSwordRage I had two strings representing newline-separate lists of things, and I needed to get only the things that were in the first list and not the second. The quickest and easiest way I could think to do it was `string`↵ `string`↵⊍⁋
Final call for feedback on my proposed blog post: docs.google.com/document/d/…
Opinions on using monospace for the input titles on RTO?
@RedwolfPrograms There's a bit of inconsistency between your use of KotH and KoTH.
Ah, that's from suggested edits
4:14 PM
That whole paragraph had some strange conflicting edits, some of which were a bit further from the intended point, so I just rewrote it entirely.
Looks pretty good to me
I have a partial idea for a koth where you and the other bots are buying stuff from a store, and every round, or "day", it gets a bit cheaper. Different things are worth different amounts of points, and cost different amounts of money, and there's only so much of each thing, so there's a bit of game theory involved where you have to decide between paying more for it now, or maybe missing out later, or deciding between a bunch of cheap things or a few expensive things.
@RedwolfPrograms I like how TIO handles command-line arguments: separate text boxes, each of which is escaped behind the scenes so you don't have to quote them to include spaces, newlines, etc. I don't like how ATO handles command-line arguments: a single text box that has to contain a properly formatted list (I assume JSON format).
Sounds good. I'm hoping to minimize the number of cases where you need command line flags in the first place, but I'll go with something like TIO's implementation
I like how ATO puts the timing details in their own text box, unlike how TIO puts them in the same box as stderr output.
RTO probably won't have those at all by default
To discourage usage for fastest code, and because they're not super useful anyway
4:21 PM
I like how both sites allow you to collapse sections you don't need (and, I think, autocollapse empty sections, at least when you get there via permalink).
I like how TIO gives you multiple options for permalink format. The ones I use are Plain URL and CG.SE submission, but I could also see using the HTML and Markdown options.
I think showing all of them by default is a bit cluttered, but I'll probably have a dropdown box type thing that lets you pick some less common ones
Circling back to the command-line arguments, it would be nice if TIO had a way to specify multiple arguments in a single text box. Adding multiple argument boxes is a pain for Pip submissions that use more than 2-3 command-line arguments.
I like how the Vyxal TIO has the onscreen keyboard, maybe you could add something like that for languages with custom codepages?
@DLosc Having both options sounds like the best way to go
@AaronMiller Maybe, yeah. I'll have to see how Vyxal does it, might be worth having as an option for SBCS languages.
I like how both sites have Ctrl-Enter as a shortcut for "execute code." It's part of my muscle memory now.
4:27 PM
@RedwolfPrograms You could do it the way that Vyxal does it, where each link type has a little icon that represents it. I feel like that would be better than a drop down, personally.
Maybe not a dropdown, but like this pattern:
Where you'd pick "HTML", "wiki", etc.
Raw link, markdown, and CGCC submission would probably be there by default
Not sure if HTML/wiki/the others are really all that important though, now that I think about it
Oh yeah, that would probably be better than an actual dropdown. I think the icons would be easier to tell apart at a glance, though.
@RedwolfPrograms Looks good!
@AaronMiller Although I'm not a fan of the "Generate codegolf submission" icon for Vyxal; I prefer the icon that I used for the Grok interpreter: shameless self-promotion
@cairdcoinheringaahing Should I go ahead and post it?
4:31 PM
I find it interesting that you joined almost exactly as Nathan Merrill left, who was the previous resident Kother, and that Nathan joined as Rainbolt was leaving, who kothed before him :P
Almost everything I know about KotHs I learned from Nathan Merrill
I don't like how ATO has so much stuff on the page displayed by default that I have to scroll down (on my laptop screen) to see the stdout box. If I enter a quick one-liner, I'd like to be able to see the output without scrolling.
@RedwolfPrograms I think the tag expires from the current one in ~5 days. I don't see anything wrong with you posting it now, just something worth considering ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We had a very long discussion in chat about a sandbox proposal of mine shortly before he left
@cairdcoinheringaahing Always one there is, never more, never less :P
4:33 PM
We take apprentices, who will then kill us once they learn all that we have to teach :p
I think Redwolf Programs is a Koth lord!
@cairdcoinheringaahing I mean, it's called King of the Hill. Makes sense.
I always find it ...ironic (? that seems like the wrong word) that Monica posted this on CB.SE back in 2015
Okay, I'll probably post the blog post in a couple of hours. If y'all want to pick underrated answers or anything like that, this might be a good time.
I can push it back a day or so if y'all want more time
@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh wow O_O
4:47 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Looks like the nominees for that are this one, this one and this one
Feel free to add a short blurb (like a sentence) about each :)
Is it usually part of the question itself or in an answer?
We've done one where it was in the question and one where it was an answer, so you get to set the precedent :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing I think that would be a form of dramatic irony, although that's a term usually applied to fiction: when the audience knows something that a character is unaware of.
Can I be lazy and just post the question and have one of y'all do the answer? :p
How hard is to to say "This challenge went unanswered for 6 years until Dingus answered it with an impressively short answer" + two others? :P
4:51 PM
Fine :p
I'd do it, but I might be slightly biased :P
anyone else in the UK currently got The National Cold™? I feel like every single person I know has it
Is that Boris-speak for Covid?
> It's not Covid, I've been tested!
Imagine having a National Cold™. This post made by 'murica gang, where we definitely don't have our own disease-related problems.
Well this is certainly not the graph I expected to see:
I guess the 1800's was an interesting time
5:00 PM
@AaronMiller America having a National Cold™ implies that y'all can agree on something, even if that something is a cold :P
in the 1800s that could easily be a typo for mercia
@AaronMiller Did you not know that "Murica, f*ck yeah!" was the first thing ever said by George Washington after he signed the Constitution and gave the first Americans rights? :P
i must've missed that in my 'murican history class
The bill of rights wasn't included in the constitution y'know
@cairdcoinheringaahing You're wrong! We can agree on stuff! ...Oh, wait.
5:02 PM
We didn't get the rights to freedom of speech, jury trial, or any of that other stuff until a while later
@RedwolfPrograms But I thought the Constitution was hand-written by God herself and is completely infallible in every way???
No, just the 2nd amendment /s
Q: CGCC Blog Post #3: King of the Hill!

Redwolf ProgramsKing of the Hill, or KotH, is probably the most unique tag on CGCC. If you've never come across it before, today's your lucky day! In a KotH, submissions will consist of "bots" which compete in some game. Because a KotH involves simulating a (sometimes quite complicated) game, they tend to form m...

Idk, I hear about Americans talking about the 1st amendment easily as much, if not more, than the 2nd
I'm a big fan of the 3rd amendment, personally
Very controversial though
Feel free to make any edits to the underappreciated posts, btw
5:05 PM
I plead the 3rd
Oops that's the one I meant
4th actually is a bit controversial
I typically plead the 18th
I plead the 25th. Easiest way for any random person to remove the sitting President, at least temporarily :P
@AaronMiller I plead the 19th, then the next morning, plead the 18th :P
I plead the 10th. The constitution doesn't delegate anyone the right to be a total d*ck so it's given to the people.
Ugh the orange links on meta are so ugly
Life hack: click them, they become less ugly :P
I do like casting the final red flag on a post and seeing it get deleted :P
5:11 PM
... i don't suppose this was on our site, right?
No, history.SE
I think the last red flag I cast here was Sep 1st, cause I keep missing the spam :/
While it'll probably never happen, I would certainly want to plead the 3rd if the issue ever did come up.
I knew someone who lived in Germany in the 1940s. They did have U.S. soldiers quartered in their home, and they didn't get any say in it.
5:27 PM
Quartering soldiers sounds messy
You'd have pieces of them everywhere
That's why I stick to just reorienting them into non-Euclidean forms. Much easier, and there's no pesky amendment against it :P
That moment when you're looking for 1-byte golfs but all you can find are 5-byte golfs :/
If you use a Gravatar profile, be warned, it may change soon, especially if you change/update your email address
I don't know what it is about orange links but I really dislike them
5:46 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing gonna pin this for a bit so hopefully everyone this affects will see
I love that I can't star that, but I can pin it again :P
> pinned by caird coinheringaahing 47 secs ago
pinned by hyper-neutrino 1 min ago
Wait...let me test something really quickly
Self star :p
It won't let me unstar now though D:
Wow 12 abuse
it should let you clear stars though
Yeah idk
Oh, I probably had to do it from the starboard didn't I
watching the rest of my comp 524 class learn prolog is funny
5:58 PM
I just waited 20 minutes for a Vim macro to execute. ._.
we were given a trick question about writing a predicate to double a number without actually having been taught about is/2, and like half the class wrote something that only takes one parameter
this is our third or fourth day on prolog
6:17 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing eww I just did that and my avatar has lost its transparent circularness
A: Profile image changes - Alter your email, lose your Gravatar Identicon

Ryan MPlease find a way to support transparent profile images Currently, the only way to have a transparent profile image is to use Gravatar, because Imgur puts a white background on the resized images. Look how nice my usercard looks across different backgrounds: Now here it is with the white bac...

6:35 PM
@UnrelatedString what
wtf were you doing on days 1 and 2
Okay, I have a design problem for RTO
This is how I'm planning on showing which version of a language you have selected:
So I'm thinking I'll just make that a dropdown, and do two things at once.
It looks like this:
Problem is, when the version number is short, it looks odd:
@DLosc the Markdown option is good for comments and chat (e.g. CMCs)
@RedwolfPrograms i think they're pretty delicious
6:54 PM
@RedwolfPrograms I don't have a problem with it. Maybe make the background color of the dropdown slightly different from the site background if you want to tie the number to the arrow visually?
Maybe I could align the arrow to be directly next to the text
It'll be a bit of work though
@RedwolfPrograms if you make it wide enough that it's always too wide it might be sufficiently clear
does width: fit-content work for <select>s?
@RedwolfPrograms Remove the dropdown arrow /hj
@pxeger Not sure, I'll check
@AaronMiller I considered it :p
That's basically the default option, I made a custom SVG dropdown arrow
@pxeger It does not
7:09 PM
@RedwolfPrograms (you need -moz-fit-content for Firefox, does that help?)
I'm using Chrome, so that's not it
I think for selects width works weird
just tested and it seems to take the width of the largest option
I got a solution now
It uses a tiny bit of JS, same thing that makes the auto-resizing text boxes work
how are you making this frontend, btw? given "a tiny bit of JS", is it as JS-free as possible?
As JS free as possible yeah, but it'll use JS for the run button so it's not like it'll work without JS anyway
So avoiding JS altogether is just pain for the sake of pain
7:13 PM
@RedwolfPrograms That, and it would make it easier to keep it compatible with the 3DS internet browser
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Alan Bagelking-of-the-hill Tic-Tac-Toe Tic-Tac-Toe is a game where there is a 3x3 board and two players: X and O. They take turns and see who can get three in a row first in the horizontals, verticals, and diagonals. The games Each team (X and O) will make their own tic-tac-toe AI's. 10000 games will be pl...

1 hour later…
8:36 PM
@UnrelatedString If the number in question is either 0 or 1, and F->0,T->2, then that makes perfect sense
2 hours later…
10:29 PM
> Prior to statehood, Utah allowed polygamous marriage (at least de facto) and this issue greatly delayed its admission as a U.S. state, but it does not now recognize such marriages as valid and all people who entered into those marriages are now dead.
I know what the poster meant, but the wording sure makes it sound like when Utah outlawed polygamy they executed all the people in polygamous marriages.
you're telling me that's not what happened?
I don't think so, but I'm not actually aware of the facts, so... :P
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