The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:00

Wow, I'm so jealous of you Australians and your posh glass kettles :P

The Community Ads will close in a week. That includes all new ads, edits and votes, so make sure you're happy with the current ads and your votes before then.

4

(around a week, I figured I'd go earlier rather than later)

Also note that the Codidact ad will not be shown, per the note from the CM team.

user

Aww, I thought that would be exempted since it doesn't compete with SO :(

caird coinheringaahing

2 days ago, by caird coinheringaahing

I suppose it's fair enough, as SE provides us advertising space for free. Still feels off tho

user

Oh wait, I saw that when you first posted it

My memory sucks :/

caird coinheringaahing

Speaking of Codidact, for those who are interested, they are trying to establish default rules over on their meta

New Posts

00:41

0

Q: Index and return 3 characters

This is my first code golf, so here goes. The challenge is simple: Read the first 3 letters from a system input¹ and convert them to numbers (A-1, B-2, C-3...Z-26)². Print each of those numbers in the order the letters were inputted in, each on a new line and then the sum of all 3 numbers, on its...

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts This has to be a dupe, but I'm not really sure of what. Sum of the input? Convert letters to numbers (if we have that)?

@NewPosts Jelly, 7 bytes ŒuO_64S

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Chess Squad March, Avoid traps, run to an exit! [restricted-source]

DLosc

02:18

@user I'm just impressed that women can survive on Venus... /s

lyxal

02:47

hey wait a minute why are some of the buttons orange again?

ooh

that's not good

terrible screenshot

much better

as you can see, the button is orange

oh

it's my dark mode reader

nvm

DLosc

CMC: language-design Create a tape-oriented language that's not just some variation on BF

Redwolf Programs

I'm working on a really neat one involving time travel

DLosc

03:03

Tape-based language, or language in general?

user

@DLosc Yes, it’s a shame NASA didn’t support my proposal to send female astronauts to Venus in fighter jets

DLosc

@user Whom would they be fighting? :o

user

Itd be wonderful if a colony could be built there, but these bureaucrats keep hindering progress

@DLosc Why, the blue aliens of Venus, of course

Filthy little buggers, it’s no wonder women came to Earth to get rid of them. Mars has a similar problem with those green aliens

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Tape based

DLosc

@user Huh, and I always thought Venusians were green and Martians were red.

@RedwolfPrograms I look forward to seeing it. (Or will I already have seen it in the past?)

user

03:12

Well, I’ll have you know I have a BS in BS and know what I’m talking about, unlike you, who’s citing unreliable sources such as Wikipedia:P

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc I showed it to you next thursday, but I will look forward to have done it again :p

Redwolf Programs

03:23

Gotta love that "I knocked a scorpion off my wall and now I don't know where it is" feeling

DLosc

@user Well, I have a BS in CS--and I've gotta say your studies of BS are sorely lacking if you haven't experienced the ridiculous pulp-fiction romp that is A Princess of Mars. ;)

@RedwolfPrograms I've never met a scorpion and I never hope to. o_o

Redwolf Programs

All the ones here are roughly the same color as my house's carpet and walls

Unrelated String

idk why i don't think of texas as having scorpions

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Ah, excellent. Thanks in reverse for being about to have kept me posted. :D

Unrelated String

trying to think of a shitty reply actually got me genuinely thinking about a language that mostly works like stack-based but popping is replaced with moving the pointer left and pushing is replaced with growing the tape from the middle
and then you fuck around with intermediate results by grabbing them from the right of the tape instead of duplicating them on the spot
which sounds absolutely terrible but not that terrible

DLosc

03:33

Yeah, I think tape-based languages (to be at all high-level) need to be able to insert and delete cells in the middle of the tape. I'm not sure if that's technically still a tape, but if not, I don't know what else it would be.

@UnrelatedString Wait, I remember... I was definitely considering something like this for a golflang a couple years ago. Doesn't it basically turn out to be stack-based with a second stack, like Brain-Flak?

Unrelated String

you could just call it "copying every cell after a certain point to the right"

i think so yeah

DLosc

Darn stacks

Unrelated String

anything you pop is pretty much just pushed to a second stack

and moving the tape head right is just pushing something from the second stack

DLosc

03:52

You know an esolang is truly esoteric when the great Martin Ender calls it intimidating

Unrelated String

good old fueue

lyxal

04:09

CMQ: When should a list be considered truthy?

Redwolf Programs

When it has at least one truthy element, or when it's non-empty. Your choice.

Depends on whether it's for golfing or practical

lyxal

golfing

Unrelated String

i feel like non-empty is better for both

containing a truthy element is a good thing to have a builtin to check

Redwolf Programs

If a non-empty list is truthy, the filter-truthy-elements built-in would work for that

Unrelated String

that too

Redwolf Programs

04:11

Although returning 1 or 0 (or whatever the booleans in the language are) directly might be useful in some situations

lyxal

CMQ: Should function references ever be considered falsey? (context: golf)

Unrelated String

uhhh

Redwolf Programs

I'd say no, but if functions are ever evaluated for truthiness it's a missed opportunity imo

Unrelated String

are these like
function pointers
or are they more like
structured

lyxal

def f(): pass


if f:
   print("true")
else:
   print("false")

that kind of reference

Redwolf Programs

04:13

I'd say it should evaluate the function and check the truthiness of that

Nobody's going to be checking the truthiness of a function, but checking the truthiness of its return value is probably not uncommon

Unrelated String

i mean it's hard to think of first-class functions in a golfing context in the first place since unless you've got some husk stuff going on (where there's no Concrete instance for functions iirc)

i forgot what i was going to finish saying there

uh

lyxal

λ3*;[`true`|`false`]

like that

Unrelated String

but yeah i'd vote for just calling the function

that could actually be genuinely useful if
...if you make list truthiness containing-truthy
and then evaluating the truthiness of a list of functions could check if any of them returns truthy

i won't advocate for making list truthiness containing-truthy though lol

lyxal

@UnrelatedString sounds like perfect grounds for a new flag ;p

Unrelated String

true

Redwolf Programs

04:24

The optimal list truthiness algorithm is: take all of the odd numbered items, and take the inverse of their truthiness. Take the squareroot of the sum of these values. Take the other items and reverse them, then take all of the overlapping pairs. Take the truthiness of the first item in each of these overlapping pairs, and multiply it by the second item. Take the product, and compare it to the squareroot value you previously got. If one of them is exactly twice as much, the list is truthy.

Add a flag to make it use cube root.

lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms no, it's foreach item in list if item is in the truthy set return the truthy set else return the falsy set

hyper-neutrino

CMC: ^^^

Unrelated String

why am i even weighing in on this when the language i'm totally developing™️ literally doesn't have truthy values

lyxal

@UnrelatedString because you're vyxal gang™️ and this is a vyxal related question™️ ;p

Unrelated String

true™️

Redwolf Programs

04:30

JS:

l=>[r=Math.sqrt(l.filter((_,i)=>i%2).reduce((n,x)=>n+!x,0)),r/4].includes(l.reduce((p,x,i)=>p*(i&l.length-1-i?!!x*x:x),1)/2)

DLosc

@UnrelatedString ...

Redwolf Programs

CMQ: For something like a ternary operator, should the boolean/condition be the first or last input?

lyxal

last if stack based or postfix

first if prefix

Redwolf Programs

I could see the other way being better, since you often have to switch between the two based on the input

hyper-neutrino

idea: if your stack is too small, implicitly fill the stack with input but supply them to the top

Redwolf Programs

04:43

That's interesting, not sure what impact it would have on various things

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino so you mean push all the input if an operator pops from an empty stack?

hyper-neutrino

no, just enough for the operator to use

lyxal

that sounds like what 05AB1E and Vyxal does but with extra steps

hyper-neutrino

it isn't though

with input 1 the program 2 " returns [1, 2]

for this if the stack is smaller than the function arity we push inputs to the TOS first until there are enough arguments

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino so 2 $" then?

hyper-neutrino

04:47

basically

lyxal

that just sounds like the r flag with extra steps ;p

hyper-neutrino

it really isn't

1 2 " would still give [1, 2]

but 2 " with input 1 gives [2, 1]

Redwolf Programs

That's an interesting idea. Any particular use cases in mind?

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino here's where it starts to be less useful: 3 - with 1 as input

hyper-neutrino

no it isn't meant to be useful

lyxal

04:49

oh

hyper-neutrino

it does allow lyxal and redwolf's opinions on ternary switch order to coexist :P

that way you can have the TOS as the condition

but if there are only two items you can switch on the input

A username

hi

lyxal

howdy

A username

if(if): goto if

else goto sleep

(that means you redwolf)

Redwolf Programs

It's only midnight, I'm planning on going to sleep soon :p

Update: Am going to sleep now o/

A username

04:57

bye

Anush

06:36

CMC make an array of n random 128 bit integers

pxeger

Anush why do you have an obsession with large arrays of 128-bit integers?

Anush

It’s the theme of the month :)

It will change eventually

Maybe this should be a challenge on main

A username

Makes an array of 12*9-bit integers*

New Posts

0

Q: Make an array of 128 bit integers

Given an input value \$n\$, construct an array of \$n\$ random 128 bit (unsigned) integers. The integers should be uniformly random. Your code can use any in built random number generation function it has. Clearly this challenge is harder (and more fun) in lower level languages.

code-golf

Anush

?

Thanks @pxeger

Which language has this built in?

A username

06:54

S3C, probably soon

Anush

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/S3_(programming_language) ?

Might be easy in rust

A username

No S3C

It's a joke language

Anush

What is that?

A username

-3

A: Scream very loudly

Written in SSSC (commonly known as s3c) 2 bytes §

It really is a joke

Anush

Vyxal!

@Ausername thanks :)

A username

07:00

lol

Anush

But is it actually correct?

Random choice from digits of 10….?

A username

So random bit

It literally generates an array of 128 bits, then converts to base 10, so I'd say so.

Anush

Ah ok thanks!

@Ausername I misread it

A username

Its fine

Anush

I wonder how to do this in C?

Razetime

07:13

well, do the same bit array thing

except with the rand function

and print the digits individually

Anush

I guess so. It hasn’t actually constructed uint128 values

Razetime

basically how you'd handle bigints

Anush

07:39

Maybe I should clarify that you don’t have to print out the numbers

Although it is nice to see them

math

07:59

Can I do an experiment here in TNB?

lyxal

i haven't any objections

PyGamer0

@math what are you gonna do?

Anush

I was hoping this would print out a random uint64_t bpa.st/5X6A . What am I doing wrong?

math

@PyGamer0 I'm gonna ask a question

and test if it matches up with my predictions

lyxal

oooh a social experiment!

oh i like those

@math have at it then

math

08:01

@lyxal I just was going to ask how many of you know about timework's comment... maths says approximately .001

see not that much fun

lyxal

it's still fun

I don't know what timework's comment is

math

Oh i thought you might

Don't you visit the video every day?

lyxal

no

which video?

math

rickroll of course... you see timeworks left a comment that is the 8 most liked comment...

okay so maths is right

@lyxal you see this comment (rickroll alert)

lyxal

oh yeah, I have seen that

math

08:08

so then maths is almost right...

lyxal

almost?

math

.030 is not 1...

lyxal

it's not?

math

there are 21 people in the chat, approximately .001 percent of youtube users know of the comment (assuming all people here know of youtube)

so okay if you round up it's 1

lyxal

math is correct

math

08:12

yes, and by the way you don't want to miss this

It will make history

lyxal

that's all I wanted to know.

@math I'm going to the store now, what should i pick up?

math

uh?

lyxal

@math no joke

@math I'm serious, what should i pick up?

@math oh and why is it so hard to answer this question?

math

I dunno milk?

why?

lyxal

@math I'm curious, why is it so hard to answer?

it's a simple question

math

08:17

Some stress thingy

wait I saw that one in a veritaserum video

lyxal

haha

@math I'm trying to see how much info you have stored in your brain.

so that I can get an idea of how much is there

math

right.

lyxal

@math oh and what is your favorite color

math

uh green

lyxal

@math and why is that?

math

08:22

because of trees

Anush

CMC Make a random uint128 in C

lyxal

@math this seems like the right time to let you know that I've been performing my own social experiment

15 mins ago, by lyxal

almost?

pxeger

omg so quirky

math

oh. what are the results?

lyxal

that message and everything until "why is that" was generated by my favourite toy

@math you didn't pick up on what I was doing

math

08:24

which toy?

lyxal

@math oh you know, only the most powerful AI text completion tool in the world

GPT-3

math

oh GPT-3...

lyxal

it was interesting because it was also predicting what you would say

and then you said something completely different

math

really?

lyxal

yes

when I "asked" what should I pick up from the store, it had you suggesting I get sausages

math

08:26

how can I use the api?

lyxal

you need access to the private beta first

beta.openai.com

there should be a "join waitlist" button

math

@lyxal I don't like sausages

lyxal

@math lol

and when I "asked" you what your favourite colour was, it had me starting to doubt you actually had a favourite colour

> lyxal: @math and why is that?
math: green-ness?
lyxal: @math oh please, you can do better than that.
lyxal: now I'm curious if you have a favorite color or not.
math: uh... blue?
lyxal has left the chat

math

wow

lyxal

it tried to generate further conversation

but I only picked the first line it gave me

first line(s)

because obviously I couldn't post messages that depended on what AI Math had to say

math

08:32

and when will I get access to the api?

after I've joined the waitlist?

lyxal

correct

but it'll take time

my application took a month to approve

math

okay in that time I'll try out something else

lyxal

during the experiment, it got close to accurate

it had me saying "I gotta get back to my homework" at one stage

but I re-rolled it to keep the conversation going

because I am legitimately doing homework rn

A username

08:53

Uh...

What did you do to this conversation?

A username

09:21

I didn't realise mods could do this

math

what?

A username

Oh nvm

10k+ thing

math

oh. why?

A username

converted to a comment

I did not know mods could do that

math

yes, but why did hyper-neutrino convert the answer to a comment?

A username

09:27

Not sure

math

Where's the comment?

A username

I can't actually find it :p

math

so it could be a glitch

A username

Or the comment got deleted...

Idk, going to work on a character to change cop.

math

And me on a sandbox question

lyxal

09:33

And me on nothing

Because reasons.

Sandbox Posts

09:47

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is it a mathy-county-number So I recently reinvented some boring type of number. Reinvented because I'm sure somebody else invented it before, but 'till figure out who actually invented it, let's call these numbers mathy-county-numbers. So what is a mathy-county-number? It's a number like 3322224...

math

^ hard to search for duplicates

math

11:20

whoa 2h no messages in TNB?

Razetime

happens more than you think.

AMDG

13:10

@hyper-neutrino @user Just thought you might be interested from our last discussion some Catholic lectures that both expound Catholic philosophy while pointing out modern errors because... well that's the title of the lectures. One is ~34min and the other is ~23min. youtu.be/Og-08nUCd3Q youtu.be/X8F1VYkh5QU

If you do decide to watch them, do let me know your thoughts!

user

@AMDG are they related to quantum physics? (Can’t watch right now because I’m not on my laptop)

AMDG

No, not quantum physics, but I thought I might share with you some of my reasoning behind what I said in that conversation and why I said certain things should be expected to be one way or another in that regard.

One or more of the errors touched on in those lectures are ubiquitous and are the cause of many problems in the world, both in one's life, and in all fields of science.

caird coinheringaahing

13:25

@Ausername Mods will convert answers into comments if the text would be better suited for a comment, because new users with <50 rep occasionally leave an "answer" because they can't comment

Anush

Is codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/231762/98590 really an acceptable answer?

user

@AMDG Oh, I see. Thanks for sharing them. I’ll check them out sometime

AMDG

Noice.

hyper-neutrino

14:18

@Ausername I literally left a comment explaining why I converted the answer to a comment.

Razetime

@Anush wait for em to specify

Anush

15:36

@Razetime em?

caird coinheringaahing

@Anush em = them

Anush

15:50

@cairdcoinheringaahing got you

I just can't see how it could compile

user

Looks more or less like valid C to me, apart from the type

@hyper-neutrino Could you please reopen this room? Thanks

Anush

16:07

@user doesn't it need some includes?

user

Oh, you mean for open and stuff? Yeah, you're right

Aaron Miller

16:41

@cairdcoinheringaahing I was trying out Commentator, and I noticed what I think is a bug. It seems to start on the rightmost edge of the tape, so -} commands do nothing unless you’ve previously used {- commands: Try it online!

It also looks like if you move left, then move right past the original accumulator, then back to the original accumulator, it’s suddenly back to 0: Try it online!

caird coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller ಠ_ಠ People are using my languages

But I believe that's intended behaviour, due to the indexing and half-infinite tape

Aaron Miller

16:57

Half-infinite?

caird coinheringaahing

It's "infinite" to the right, but wraps around if you go out of bounds left

if char == '{-':
    acc_active = (acc_active + 1)
    try:
        acc[acc_active]
    except:
        acc.append(0)

if char == '-}':
    acc_active = (acc_active - 1) % len(acc)
    if acc_active < 0:
        acc_active = (len(acc)+1) + acc_active

Aaron Miller

Ok, so {- goes to the right, and -} goes to the left?

caird coinheringaahing

No, the braces "point" to the direction

wait

no, the - points, so yes, {- is right

Aaron Miller

Oh, that makes a lot more sense. The wiki for commentator says the opposite, then.

caird coinheringaahing

I'd suggest using the -a argument for debugging btw :P

Aaron Miller

17:02

Oh, cool, thx

caird coinheringaahing

Try it online!

Aaron Miller

Is BF TC without nested loops?

caird coinheringaahing

If so, Commentator is TC, as you can draw an equivalence between the commands

Aaron Miller

That’s why I was wondering :p

gist.github.com/AMiller42/40db5e9e5f00f1bf0cf1b40b62e9e253

Newly Featured Posts

17:18

12

Q: Please parse this aLL1en language

Background Due to some unfortunate accident during coding you are now teleported and stranded on an alien planet. You really hope that the locals will be helpful and point to the general direction of how to get home, but before trying to talk to them you want to decipher their language. Fortunate...

code-golf parsing grammars

Redwolf Programs

I just outgolfed Arnauld :o

user

17:48

Link?

Redwolf Programs

Link

Suggested golf, not a whole new answer

They were using recursion to build the array, but by changing that to declaring the array, filling it with 128n, and mapping it with Arnauld's g function (which needs 128n as input anyway) it saved 2 bytes

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Any docs for github.com/cairdcoinheringaahing/Verbosity-v2?

hyper-neutrino

> Verbosity, but actually usable

wow, you're already making a better language than Java /hj

user

18:03

I love how variables have to be at least 5 characters, great way to enforce readable names :P

Trying to find an ACE exploit in Verbosity but it doesn't allow underscores :/

caird coinheringaahing

18:19

@hyper-neutrino Well, it was intended to be usable, I'm not sure how successful I was with that :P

@user As with all my languages, my code is entirely self-documenting, so why would I need docs? :P

(aka no, I should probably actually write docs for my existing langs before making a new one)

For some reason, I have PRIVATEVAR as a saved variable name for all programs, but it appears to be completely modifiable and it errors if you access it before assigning it yourself O.o

Redwolf Programs

"self-documenting" :p

caird coinheringaahing

It's entirely self-documenting, for a Python interpreter :P

user

😠

Anush

18:41

Two C answers and I don't believe either of them :(

Now makes me wonder about answers in languages I don't understand

user

Have neither of the authors responded?

Anush

One yes, the other no

The one who has codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/231769/98590

user

As long as they fix their answer or make it clear in a day or two, I don't see anything to worry about

Anush

That's true

Valentin Brasso

18:59

Any final feedback for my week-old challenge submission? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

AviFS

19:27

Seemingly arbitrary, but not arbitrary, question:

What are your guys' favorite stack-based langs with a JS interpreter?

(Or an interpreter that compiles to JS)

Doesn't have to be a complete or amazing interpreter. And it doesn't have to be the de-facto one, either. Just that it should be possible to demo in the browser on the client-side

---
Alternatively, has anyone used any of the XYZ2js transpilers for langs like Python?

DLosc

@AviFS Well, ><> is stack-based, although the fact that it's 2D makes it quite different from a "regular" stack-based language. Here's a JavaScript interpreter.

AviFS

Ah, thanks! Yeah, for the project I'm working on rn, I'm definitely hoping for a not-so-2d stack based lang

DLosc

(Actually I lied--it looks like that interpreter's actually implemented in TypeScript)

AviFS

But I'll definitely do my best to support 2d langs as well, it'll just be much harder

Haha, that's fine, it'll compile to js easy peasy

pxeger

19:42

CMCMV: arrove is a perfectly cromulent word

meaning the past tense of arrive

AviFS

@DLosc Holy wow, I'll definitely have to take a look at ><> now!!

I just hit 'submit' to run the code...

That's quite an evolved interpreter

I mean IDE... I mean interpreter... I mean like wow

DLosc

@AviFS My language Ouroboros (somewhat inspired by ><>... you might call it a 1.5-D language) is also implemented in JavaScript.

user

@DLosc Impressive

AviFS

Thanks, I'll see about adding support for that too. I've run into it before actually!

For now though, don't have the whatever to support any 2d-ness at all

user

@user I can't tell if this is a glitch or some kind of joke

AviFS

19:45

I could, but it'd defeat the purpose of this particular part

DLosc

@pxeger I like "shove" (pronounced to rhyme with "cove") as a past tense for "shave."

@pxeger Then I think the past participle should be "arriven."

pxeger

@DLosc yeah, sounds fair enough

arise/arose/arisen, arrive/arrove/arriven

DLosc

Hm, yeah--I was thinking of strive/strove/striven.

user

@pxeger "cromulent" is not a perfectly cromulent word, you posh twat /s

Had to look up what that meant :P

DLosc

I knew what it meant, but I had no idea it was coined by The Simpsons

user

19:54

TIL

AviFS

@AviFS Half-solved! I can use this Underload interpreter in JS. It's also a simple enough lang that I can write the interp myself. Along similar concatenative/functional lines, I found a half-done Joy interp in JS.

But the question is still open! A JS interpreter for a slightly more convenient & standard stack-based lang would be awesome! Something like GolfScript, 05AB1E or Vyxal

user

I'm sure there are ways to turn Python into JS

AviFS

If anyone knows a JS interp for Jelly, that'll also come in handy!

user

(for Vyxal and Jelly, I mean)

05AB1E uses Elixir afaik, so that'll be harder

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Pretty sure the only Jelly interpreter that exists in the Python one

AviFS

19:57

@user There def are. I've tried before, and it was totally a mess. But I found some new ones which might be promising

DLosc

@user A previous version was implemented in Python, I believe

caird coinheringaahing

(and the self-interpreter atom v :P)

AviFS

Py2JS transpilers I hadn't seen before, I mean. Like Brython

user

@DLosc Oh right, legacy osabie

@AviFS github.com/flexxui/pscript

AviFS

@user Actually, I find some elixer2js transpilers, too!

user

19:58

Nice!

AviFS

@user Ikr! That one looked promising to me, too

Can't figure out why I'd missed them in the past. But anyway, I'll try them out when I get back and report back

A username

Hi

AviFS

Or feel free to give it a shot!

user

@Ausername Hi, any good news?

A username

Nope!

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