The Nineteenth Byte

Riker

00:00

In '| " To the beggining of the current line'

DJMcMayhem

Oh, haha missed that

I also wrote precendent last time

Riker

Ah

@DJMcMayhem 10/10 nice explanation

DJMcMayhem

Kewl

Destructible Watermelon

I'm writing an answer to that TC language interpreter challenge

golfed my program before my answer was done

wat

can you people please join the minecraft server

Qwerp-Derp

00:15

Getting an Arduino Uno tomorrow! :)

wat

@Qwerp-Derp I've had a Makey Makey for years and I just recently realized it's Arduino compatible!

Qwerp-Derp

@wat recently*

wat

Oh thanks, dont know how I messed up that badly

Qwerp-Derp

I wish you could detect chat in Minecraft...

That way you can make custom commands easily

@wat What's the address again

wat

192.99.148.35:26939

quartata

00:21

@WheatWizard Often times when installers say "need 10.7+" I just use Pacifist to extract the contents and install it myself. I did that for Java 7 and it actually works perfectly on 10.6.

ais523

@DestructibleWatermelon I already have an interpreter in 22 bytes of Jelly for the language Im' working on; however, the thing delaying me posting my answer is trying to prove the language Turing-complete

it's a really neat puzzle language, too, basically a cross between Incident and Malbolge, and yet somehow much more elegant than either

Destructible Watermelon

I just golfed it again lol

ais523

but given what its inspirations are, it's unsurprising that I'm having trouble writing the code

Destructible Watermelon

hmmm. I almost hope is not TC

so I can enjoy fame of being in first place

of course last time that happened I didn't get much fame :(

50 bytes of code right now BTW

was 65

wait just golfed it some more hah, 47

44! the golfs!

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Time to fill drives?

John bought 7 disk drives and grouped them together into a single logical drive so I could backup all my data from internet. My drive usage can be described as a sustained workload of 200,000 write operations per second with following distribution: 1. 512 bytes: 20% of all operations 2. 1024 byte...

discussion

DJMcMayhem

00:35

@NewMetaPosts wtf

That's like the most off-topic post I've ever seen

trichoplax

Off topic on main? Try meta...

DJMcMayhem

Was it on main recently?

trichoplax

No I'm just joking that it's just as off topic on meta. At least I haven't seen it on main.

Destructible Watermelon

wait a minute my 44 byte solution doesn't work ;_;

Christopher Peart

00:54

in the flash they just located a guy based off of a reflection in his eye

wth is going on

Destructible Watermelon

~~magic~~ science

Christopher Peart

and the flash just flew by spinning his arms so fast he made a jet of air

Destructible Watermelon

ok that makes no sense lol

trichoplax

01:12

Why would you need to fly when you can run fast enough to turn back time?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Time to fill drives?

John bought 7 disk drives and grouped them together into a single logical drive so I could backup all my data from internet. My drive usage can be described as a sustained workload of 200,000 write operations per second with following distribution: 1. 512 bytes: 20% of all operations 2. 1024 byte...

math

Pavel

@trichoplax Welp, there it is ^!

trichoplax

I commented on meta to say it would be off topic on main too, then it got reposted on main

Poke

01:27

Anyone here feel like answering a Java question?

Pavel

I can try

Poke

ok

A java Applet doesn't need a main method

which is pretty dope

but I realized that I'm launching the applet from eclipse

which has an Applet "Run As" option

Pavel

Applets are beyond the scope of my Java knowledge.

Poke

under the hood that uses appletviewer.exe and likely a templated html file

and a relaxed security manager

how the heck do i score it

Pavel

I think you score just the Java code you wrote.

trichoplax

01:30

Can you run it from a browser? Will that avoid the extra?

Pavel

The under-the-hood stuff is just part of the implementation.

trichoplax

Seems reasonable to not count the implementation though either way

Pavel

Your submission language wouldn't be Java in that case, but Java Applet+Eclipse (or something like that)

Poke

hmm

trichoplax

This makes lots of sense

Poke

01:31

well i can run it from the command line with appletviewer.exe but it gets blocked from running via the security manager

Pavel

It works if you disable security manager, right?

Poke

yeah

Pavel

Then you don't need to count anything other than the code in your score.

Poke

it works in eclipse just fine

Downgoat

I got READMEs working in app!

Riker

01:40

:o

nice!

@Downgoat lol nice readme choice

cc @DJM

Downgoat

I should be able to start TestFlight soon too

Pavel

@Downgoat It scrolls properly and everything?

Downgoat

Yup :D

Pavel

:D

Downgoat

I also got stargazers done and will work on code browsing and then offline repos

DJMcMayhem

01:49

@Downgoat :D yay \o/

Pavel

Does it support those README tags like Build|Passing?

Like here: github.com/mathics/Mathics

Destructible Watermelon

hi guys look I made the first valid answer on the turing complete language interpreter challenge

Pavel

Good for you!

Destructible Watermelon

wait aw man it got closed

Pavel

Yep

wat

01:54

@Downgoat I have a UI idea

Downgoat

@Pavel yea, it is fully compliant w/ GitHub MD

(because it uses GitHub's MD API)

@wat please say :D

Destructible Watermelon

0

A: Turing complete language interpreter code golf

Turtlèd interpreting CT, 49 bytes I might be able to golf this this is one I made a while ago actually (then golfed some now) !-l[*+.r_]' !l[ l]r[ u.(;d' u)d(1[ r].[ l])( r)+] How it works: Turtlèd uses grid cells. When I say "write something on the grid" I mean that a contiguous group of c...

Pavel

@Downgoat You know how the top bar just has < V in it? You can also fit the repo owner's name in there.

Or something to be able to see at a glance if you're on main, a fork, or which branch you're on.

wat

sorry badly put together in gimp

Downgoat

10/10

Pavel

02:00

Nah man, that kind of quality clearly came out of MS Paint.

wat

I don't even have windows installed

Green Is My Pepper

Destructible Watermelon

mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=2828

I like these comics

Wheat Wizard

02:42

@MistahFiggins I have your quine

0

A: Golf you a quine for great good!

Del|m|t, 33 bytes O T Y O I I J O J Q K R R ] _ A J Try it online! Explanation Here is an annotated version of my code. I might update it with a more detailed version in the future. O #Make a copy of the top element T #Take the character at that position Y #Output i...

Pavel

@WheatWizard I don't really understand your explanation, but it appears to read its own source code?

Wheat Wizard

@Pavel Hm I think you are right

I wasn't thinking of it in that way but I guess that is right

How are Quines even supposed to work in a language where the source and memory are stored in the same place if you can't read the source?

Riker

they dont?

Ductr Tape

02:58

What's a good format for explanations for <><?

Pavel

@Riker It's TC without reading the source, and every TC language has a quine.

At least every TC language capable of outputting arbitrary strings.

Wheat Wizard

The problem is the memory is on the same tape as the source so even if I don't really read the source the stuff I am printing has to be stored somewhere which is unfortunately the source.

Destructible Watermelon

I have an idea

Mistah Figgins

negative position values are strictly used for memory

Wheat Wizard

So do they not count when we are talking about reading the source?

Can I read from negative positions in the source without it being considered cheating?

Riker

03:02

idk I guess so

Mistah Figgins

Yes (I think).

They are initialized to 0

Pavel

Might be worth asking about on Meta, what counts as 'reading its own source' if the source and memory is the same.

SMBF has the same issue.

Mistah Figgins

I mean, they use the same command, but Internally at least, they are entirely different data structures

Negative and non-negative indicies

Pavel

. is your SMBF quine, but since that doesn't count, what does?

user165474

oh wow apparently getting rep is a lot easier than I thought (unless you're Martin Ender, because then you need to get 1000 rep before it shows a change on your profile)

Riker

03:05

lol

user165474

yeah

user165474

My highest rep change was 2 days ago by +83

Pavel

I suppose .{>.}NULL is better, but it still reads it's source.

Wheat Wizard

Ok I asked the meta question

hopefully we will have an answer soon

however my Quine is definitely invalid

Riker

under the current rules at least

Wheat Wizard

03:09

I'm pretty sure it is still going to be invalid

Mistah Figgins

I think it is possible to change the delimiter to something not in the program halfway through. The command following would be the "push as string" command, so the next token would be the entire code. The code as a token is the put or change delimiter command, so that after the string is read, there would be instances of the delimiter in the program. Then, the program would print the string, plus any characters used for the command

Certainly not optimal, I don't think, but interesting

Pavel

@MistahFiggins Can you set your delimiter to empty, and if so what what happens then?

Mistah Figgins

I don't really know. It might error, because I use Scanner's useDelimiter() function

But I could fix it so that it just doesn't match anything

Pavel

So every character is parsed as it's own token

That would be golfier

Mistah Figgins

Ooh, yea

would be interesting to make that the default

It would invalidate preexisting answers though

Pavel

03:19

I don't think there are very many

And they're probably all written by you

Wheat Wizard

I don't think it should be the default

It de-emphasizes the most interesting part of the language which is the delimiter

Pavel

Tru

Wheat Wizard

I think it does make an interesting option however

Pavel

You can always set it through arguments

@MistahFiggins I looked it up, it makes hasNext() return false and next() return the empty string.

Mistah Figgins

@WheatWizard Agreed

@Pavel Interpreter's here, in case you didn't already know

Pavel

03:26

I just use TIO

Mistah Figgins

That's what TIO uses

Pavel

TY for printGaot

Mistah Figgins

:P The challenge that followed had some characters changed

It's kinda sad

Pavel

Aww

Mistah Figgins

1 or 2 other languages added built ins before they knew about the challenge, but the slight difference disqualified them

For those who can see deleted posts

Pavel

03:31

It's not deleted

It's just closed

Mistah Figgins

No, I posted an answer but I deleted it

Pavel

o

Mistah Figgins

If you don't have that privilege or it's not your post, then it just links to question

New Meta Posts

2

Q: What counts as reading one's own source when source and memory are the same?

For Quine programs one is not allowed to read the source of the program, for obvious reasons. However there are some programming languages where most or all of the memory has to be stored in the source of the program itself (see Self Modifying Brainfuck or Del|m|t). What constitutes reading the...

discussion

Pavel

@NewMetaPosts slow af today

Wheat Wizard

03:44

@MistahFiggins what happens when you try to skip a negative number of commands

Pavel

@WheatWizard Presumably moves back that many or throws ? extends IndexOutOfBoundsException

Wheat Wizard

It doesn't seem to do either as far as I can tell

Pavel

Hmm

Does it do nothing?

Wheat Wizard

tio.run/nexus/delimit#@@@g4KzgrRCrEP//PwA

I can't tell precisely

Pavel

Can't really tell what that code is doing.

Mistah Figgins

03:50

@WheatWizard It "adds" that number to the number of commands to skip. When that number is greater than 0, it skips the next command and decrements

So it should just cancel out following skip commands

Wheat Wizard

What?

Riker

if you're already planning to skip 10 commands

and then you try to skip -8

then you end up skipping 10 + (-8) which is 2

capiche?

Wheat Wizard

How might I have been planning to skip 10 commands?

Pavel

@WheatWizard skip -8, followed by skip 10

Wheat Wizard

Ok I see

Mistah Figgins

03:57

tio.run/nexus/delimit#@@@g4KzgrRCr4KEQoeCg4ApmuwPZbkAc//8/AA

oops, that's not right

tio.run/nexus/…

Destructible Watermelon

would anyone like to help me out with making some bots for my koth?

Mistah Figgins

There

wat

what is the koth?

Destructible Watermelon

my maze koth

wat

format?

Destructible Watermelon

04:03

I should update the sandbox

this is the base class:

class Player:
    def __init__(self):
        raise NotImplementedError

    def play(self, scores):
        # use the scores so you can know when one team is scoring,
        # so you can figure out where you are vaguely if you have the flag, or vaguely where the flag is
        raise NotImplementedError

    def inform(self, message):
        raise NotImplementedError

also the only class variable your bot should have is a name

Mistah Figgins

Link, for anyone who has yet to find it

Destructible Watermelon

and also don't change the name

Mistah Figgins

I think you should figure out what a bot can do (shoot, move, pick up artifact, etc)

Pavel

Why not allow other class variables?

Mistah Figgins

If you haven't already

Pavel

04:06

Why do you want to prevent recording data?

> the challenge in question (Add a language to a polyglot) is just about to turn 1 month old, and has pretty much finished.

--@NathanMerrill, who was very wrong about the insane dedication of the people working on that challenge, January Fifth.

Destructible Watermelon

04:34

@Pavel because the idea of the bots being independent is a core part of this

@MistahFiggins I already did. I probably should have told you that though el oh el

Pavel

Private, instance variables?

Mistah Figgins

@DestructibleWatermelon Figured

Destructible Watermelon

I could possibly add functions rather than making bots return a string, but ehhh

Riker

showerthought: people born in 1988 didn't see a year with all distinct digits until 2013

1989 shared the 9, all the 1990s shared the 9, the 2000s shared the middle two zeros, and then 2011 and 2012 both shared a number

Helka Homba

Curious

But they did get to see two years with 3 identical digits

Pavel

04:47

@HelkaHomba hey, following consensus on meta here, I was wondering if you would like to repost this challenge, but start with Java?

Helka Homba

@Pavel Er, maybe. Have we agreed that it wouldn't be a dupe? Note that Java answered that eventually

Like, meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/11180/26997 is only 2 votes behind and idk if we need to vote on allowing it or not

Pavel

How do you decide which answer on meta to use if they're almost tied, and the lower one came several days after the other?

Is there a policy for handling this case, or should we ask a mod?

Riker

@HelkaHomba tied now

Destructible Watermelon

@Riker showerthought: nobody has seen a year

:P

Mistah Figgins

@DestructibleWatermelon I seeyear stack exchange avatar...

Pavel

04:56

@Riker If it ends up surpassing the original, who should create the thread? It probably will be used very rarely, no too many posts are eligible or should be reposted. Could we use the sandbox?

Mistah Figgins

It's a melon

Destructible Watermelon

Ok, I might try and fix up the sand box post for my koth

Helka Homba

@Pavel If you restarted it as in Java, couldn't people just copy from answer 151 onwards?

Pavel

Answer 151 is a terrifying abomination.

Also, while people could do that, I don't think the will given the availability of so many more languages that were struck out early.

Helka Homba

Either way, you have my permission to try restarting EoHW, but no promises it wouldn't be closed by others.

Pavel

05:02

TY, I think I'll do C# now that I think about it, which wasn't in the original.

Helka Homba

Maybe use a different string, just to mix things up

Luis Mendo

@DJMcMayhem The - sticks to the following number. You need to replace 0 by O. Function O by default produces a zero, but now it's not a literal, so the - is treated separately by the parser

Pavel

Yep

I wonder if I should change the distance

Luis Mendo

^^ Or use qq instead of 2-

Helka Homba

@Pavel Evolution of powers of 2: answer #N must output 2^N

Pavel

05:05

Ooh, good one.

Helka Homba

But still const edit distance (perhaps more than 7)

Pavel

I was trying to think of an interesting one, but everything I thought of seemed impossible. (Evolution of Quine, etc.)

Helka Homba

I might make a "Evolution of powers of 2" if you don't get to it right away ;)

Pavel

I'm typing it up now.

Helka Homba

ok

Mistah Figgins

05:13

@HelkaHomba Hmm, it seems like similar languages would only have to change the number, at least for the first couple

Pavel

It's still more interesting than a constant string.

I think I'll kill the printable ACII requirement since we have so many languages like Jelly and 05AB1E where that's just not nice.

Qwerp-Derp

no one's on the mc server :(

Destructible Watermelon

ok I'll join

I had a really good house once but I built it too close to art of codes house

Mistah Figgins

05:33

@Qwerp-Derp too busy with work, and also making a gravel elevator that's completely reusable

Pavel

0

Q: Evolution of Powers of Two

This is a repost of Evolution of “Hello World!”, originally written by user Helka Homba It should not be closed as a duplicated, due to meta consensus here. The original was asked over two years ago and was last active more than six months ago. I have permission from Helka Homba to post this he...

answer-chaining

@HelkaHomba ^

New Main Posts

0

Q: Evolution of Powers of Two

This is a repost of Evolution of “Hello World!”, originally written by user Helka Homba It should not be closed as a duplicated, due to meta consensus here. The original was asked over two years ago and was last active more than six months ago. I have permission from Helka Homba to post this he...

answer-chaining

Mistah Figgins

haha get ninja'd again, stupid bot /s :P

Pavel

IT DOESN'T HAVE A NEGATIVE SCORE

WOOT

Helka Homba

@Pavel your sort by oldest link goes to the old question

Pavel

05:48

I'll fix it, one sec

Mistah Figgins

Also @Pavel, trailing space(s) allowed?

Pavel

Yes

It says so, no?

Mistah Figgins

It just said newline

I had assumed the answer would be yes, but making sure

might want to change it to "whitespace"

Pavel

Done

Helka Homba

@MistahFiggins Allowing a trailing newline is my usual rule since some print commands do it by default. Trailing spaces idk but it's up to Pavel

Mistah Figgins

05:59

Most if not all befunges print a trailing space after numbers, and Del|m|t does too

maybe others

Pavel

I see no reason against.

Helka Homba

Sure

Pavel

Do you want to try it in De|m|t?

Flags don't count for edit distance, so know yourself out with whatever delimiter you want.

I might want to change that, actually, but I'm not sure how I would do that, except to ban them.

wat

> Deimit

Destructible Watermelon

contemplating not answering evolution of powers of two because is slightly boring at the moment

Pavel

06:02

Wait

No

wat

[WARNING: Not actually the correct answer]

Pavel

I'm blind

DJMcMayhem

Is negatable a word?

Pavel

I think so

wat

negatable

Adjective: negatable (not comparable)

Capable of being negated.

Pavel

06:03

Is it underlined red?

DJMcMayhem

Yeah

Helka Homba

@DJMcMayhem uncommon but sure

DJMcMayhem

@wat Oh, perfect

Helka Homba

may be mistaken for negotiable :p

Destructible Watermelon

whats the antonym of negatable? or is it not negatable?

:P

Pavel

06:05

Does no one want to do the Evolution challenge in Perl? Or any regular lang?

DJMcMayhem

@DestructibleWatermelon Negateunable

wat

unnegatable?

DJMcMayhem

Or perhaps it's Regatable

> Regatable, adj "Capable of being gated another time"

wat

Frigatable

Capable of being made into a ship

Pavel

A Regatta is a kind of boat race, right?

Helka Homba

06:14

yes

Pavel

Ooh, spelled it right, too.

wat

YAY! Got a music disc!

Pavel

Ooh, for what?

wat

C418 - Mall

Killed a creeper with a skeleton

That's how you get them

Pavel

NJ

That one's hard.

wat

06:19

...New Jersey?

Pavel

Nice Job

wat

I see

Destructible Watermelon

autological words are fun

spellable, pentasyllabic, word, adjectival, noun, english

Mistah Figgins

"adjectival"? really?

four-syllabled

Destructible Watermelon

um, what?

Morphology is fun

Pavel

06:29

@DestructibleWatermelon s/(?<= )e/E

Destructible Watermelon

@Pavel say what

Pavel

The e should be capitalized.

Destructible Watermelon

nope

not using the noun form

using it to describe something english

Pavel

I thought it was capitalized either way...

Destructible Watermelon

English (language), english (adjective for something from england or something in English)

Mistah Figgins

06:31

I don''t think so

Destructible Watermelon

well, think of it as the difference between Dad and dad

Mistah Figgins

There isn't really a "proper adjective" AFAIK

wat

The word autological is autological

Mistah Figgins

@DestructibleWatermelon as in ~~bad-joke~~ dad-joke

@wat I disagree

It is not autological

Helka Homba

@MistahFiggins thefreedictionary.com/Proper-Adjectives.htm

Like "The English countryside" I guess

Pavel

06:32

35

A: When should the word "English" be capitalized?

If it is a proper noun, it must be capitalized. If it is an adjective derived from a proper noun, it should retain its capitalization, according to this Wikipedia entry: In English, adjectives derived from proper nouns (except the names of characters in fictional works) usually retain their ...

Mistah Figgins

@HelkaHomba Well, I stand corrected. (I did say AFAIK after all)

Destructible Watermelon

huh

well, it's kind of a grey area

Helka Homba

CMC: Word that has the most consecutive alphabet characters in it. e.g. define scores 3 for def

Destructible Watermelon

well, if I had /usr/dict on my computer I could do that

Helka Homba

Similarly, stub

Pavel

06:36

@HelkaHomba I feel like the best way to do this is either Mathematica or Prolog, and I don't know Prolog and don't have access to Mathematia at the moment.

@DestructibleWatermelon According to TIO that isn't a thing that exists

tio.run/nexus/bash

Helka Homba

Any more than 3 gets very restrictive

Destructible Watermelon

Words (Unix)

words is a standard file on all Unix and Unix-like operating systems, and is simply a newline-delimited list of dictionary words. It is used, for instance, by spell-checking programs. The words file is usually stored in /usr/share/dict/words or /usr/dict/words. On Debian and Ubuntu, the words file is provided by the wordlist package, or its provider packages wbritish, wamerican, etc. On Fedora and Arch, the words file is provided by the words package. == References == == External links == Sample words file from Duke CS department...

Pavel

TY

tio.run/nexus/bash#@5@coqBfWlykX5yRWJSqn5KZXKLPlVOsoJv4/z8A

...

Helka Homba

Understudy 4!

Mistah Figgins

@HelkaHomba Overstuff, and Gymnophobia

Helka Homba

06:42

nice

Mistah Figgins

lots of rstu, I think

if it wraps, there is analyzable

Destructible Watermelon

dammit

I had a really cool answer to that answer chaining challenge ;_;

Pavel

@DestructibleWatermelon Why don't you post it, then?

Destructible Watermelon

an answer got deleted

also did you remove the time constraint?

Pavel

I did

Destructible Watermelon

06:49

ok,

Pavel

I already informed the op of that answer that he should undelete it

Destructible Watermelon

@boboquack undelete pls

can I go ahead and post then?

Pavel

It's back now

Destructible Watermelon

lol whoops accidentally posted too quick

Pavel

No one wants to do normal langs

Destructible Watermelon

06:53

well

define normal

Pavel

Also, please remember to update the list of used langauges >_>

Destructible Watermelon

oh

Learn How To Be Transparent

Anyone want some tea?

Pavel

Not really, no.

2

Transcript for