The Nineteenth Byte

11:00

but here it is maybe

!-l[*+.r_]' !l[ l]r[ u.(;d' u)(1'0)(0d)(0u)(1[ r].u{ l})' d( r)+]

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

This is a random array generator in APL

randArray←{(?¨(⍺⌿(?⍵)))}

Destructible Watermelon

halts if inputted CT program halts

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Random array?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Array of random numbers

?¨(⍺⌿(?⍵)): Minimised

Within given range, and length

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo As input?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

11:02

Hmm?

ASCII-only

Range and length are inputs?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

⍺ and ⍵ are APL argument placeholders

Yes

They're arguments

Or inputs

If wanted

Woops, looks like it's broken

I'll try to fix it

Oh, never mind it works

It uses the range arg as an upper bound

Use is, len randArray range

tryapl.org. Paste this first randArray←{(?¨(⍺⌿(?⍵)))}, then something like 400 randArray 30

ASCII-only

Charcoal doesn't do too badly, and wasn't even supposed to be golfy for numbers (btw by default numbers are printed as lines since this is ASCII-art-focused, here is a more readable one

First input is range, second is number

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Cool

HTML Tag remove (Not mine, off wikipedia, but still cool) : ⎕←{⍵/⍨~{⍵∨≠\⍵}⍵∊'<>'}txt

⎕ is IO

Sort of

It's also system functions, like ⎕LOAD

Destructible Watermelon

I was thinking of making a language: Turtlèd but golfy

ASCII-only

11:11

@DestructibleWatermelon That's what Charcoal is supposed to be

Destructible Watermelon

not exactly

very different really

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Luckily with golfing languages, the need for AST's seems considerably lesser than a normal language

TuxCopter

It's false for languages with exotic parsing rules, like Jelly

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

false?

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo No

For stack-based languages, yes

TuxCopter

11:12

false

Adjective: false ‎(comparative falser, superlative falsest)

Untrue, not factual, factually incorrect.
Based on factually incorrect premises.
false legislation‎
Spurious, artificial.
false teeth‎

(16 more not shown…)

Adverb: false ‎(comparative more false, superlative most false)

Not truly; not honestly; falsely.
Shakespeare
You play me false.

Noun: false ‎(plural falses)

One of two options on a true-or-false test.
The student received a failing grade for circling every true and false on her quiz.‎
false
vocative singular of falsus

Verb: false

Formal second-person singular (usted) imperative form of falsar.
First-person singular (yo) present subjunctive form of falsar.
Formal second-person singular (usted) present subjunctive form of falsar.
Third-person singular (él, ella, also used with usted?) present subjunctive form of falsar....

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Charcoal has an AST

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yes

I said lesser

Not unneeded

ASCII-only

Lesser? Not at all

TuxCopter

gtg bai

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

To an extent, some AST is always needed. Whether it's actually needed in that form is a different matter

Could just be an if, else if in a parser

ASCII-only

11:15

It only applies to stack-based esolangs, and those are becoming scarcer and scarcer. Of course, for the majority of other languages like Jelly which have very few different types of constructs, an AST does not actually need to be constructed

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

For instance, Brainfuck loops. They loop if the current cell is not zero. You could use an AST model, or just an if clause

Yeah

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo ASTs aren't needed, just they make things easier the more complex your language's syntax is

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

I know

Destructible Watermelon

I didn't need an AST or something

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

kk

I'm used to writing parsers for larger languages

Would parsing a MIDI data stream be a decent challenge?

ASCII-only

11:18

Maybe? If it isn't super complex, it should be fine, but be careful and make sure there aren't any other similar (i.e. MIDI-based) challenges before posting

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

There actually aren't any libraries in a majority of languages for parsing MIDI files

There is one for C/C++

And none at all for python, that actually work

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo :P

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

It's kinda annoying

I'm writing one in Dart and Python at the mo

ASCII-only

If you want decent code, maybe make it a fastest-code and encourage submissions in all languages?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yeah

I would have to limit it to normal Note/Polyphonic events

There are too many in the full spec

Or maybe just a challenge for parsing a MIDI delta time. They're variable length

ccarh.org/courses/253/handout/vlv

ASCII-only

11:21

> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://localhost:48626/takana.js"></script>

+1 for having a localhost url on your website

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Hmm

Ah

Yeah, I was doing dev

Doesn't matter

It's not actually an open port on the server itself

It's just a live reloader for SCSS

ASCII-only

:P not a good idea to do dev on the production server

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

I know

I wasn't

It was local, just forgot to remove the link

It's running on an Azure VM

This is what I'm currently working on

englishmaori.co.nz

It gives me something to do in school

And it's good fun

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Why work on it when there's Google Translate?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Google translate is absolutely terrible at Maori

ASCII-only

11:29

+1 though, I can never get myself to focus on one project

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

It's literally never right

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Yeah, but it's getting better (slowly...)

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Google Translate is ML based, and as there is bugger all material online in relation to the Maori language, it doesn't do well

And the Maori material on the internet isn't increasing very fast

Anyway, people don't use Google Translate for Maori, cause they know it's wrong

So, Google doesn't get any new data

ASCII-only

Hmm

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

The nice thing about Maori, is that it follows it's own rules rigidly, meaning we can use a rule based system for translations

ASCII-only

11:33

Why did Google even add Maori then?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Google has added just about every language they know of

But they didn't really commit to any of them

It was an experiment at first i think

It just kinda grew

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

HDL quine (is it possible at all?) I have the following idea: Write a program in a hardware description language (e.g. VHDL, Verilog ...) which can be executed on a programmable logic device (CPLD, FPGA ... or only simulated on a PC, of course) and outputs its own source code (e.g. Verilog code...

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Cool

I wish HDL langauges were easier to work with

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo rules = grammar?

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo No, in general they don't add a language until they have a sufficiently large corpus to provide decent translations

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Maybe, but it doesn't really explain why there are so many other translation services other than Google's

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Dunno then

Maybe it's because there is enough on the internet to get a general idea, but not enough to be accurate

They translate everything with the same tense,

The words are generally correct, but order and non-direct translations of words (things like and, a and it) are all wrong

ASCII-only

11:37

How are you going to do the English -> Maori translation?

English is literally the worst language to parse

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

We're using a lib called NLTK to deal with the English side of things. The maori side of things is done by creating rules that either infer meaning/context from words in the sentence, or directly asks the user

NLTK is a beautiful piece of work

If we didn't have it, the project wouldn't be happening

Anyway, the original prototype got to about %98.7 accuracy if the user response was correct

I'm working on making it into an extendable framework, and creating a web interface for it

Pretty good going considering I'm only 14

We got the whole thing verified by the leading Maori linguist. He said he thought it was awesome

Ironically, the rest of the team is French

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo In PPCG "pretty good" means something different than outside PPCG :P

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Oh, what does it mean?

ASCII-only

Well, we kinda have different standards

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Oh, what would that mean?

As in, how would these different standards affect that statement

ASCII-only

11:45

Not too much, I guess?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Ok, thanks for the heads up though

Anyway, I meant "Pretty good" in general. There aren't too many 14 yr olds working on a full-scale translation framework (Correct me if I'm wrong)

ASCII-only

Almost everyone here has made at least one esolang, and we have a significant fraction of <20 year olds - there have been some amazing projects e.g. Downgoat/Conor have been writing a non-esolang (Also El'endia/quartata on another one)

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yeah, that's cool

Qwerp-Derp

Hello!

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Although, I feel an Esolang, depending on what it is, wouldn't neccesarily be to hard to create

Qwerp-Derp

11:47

@ASCII-only How to make web server thing?

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Not true for some esolangs...

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

I know

I said depending on what it is

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo They wouldn't be easy either

Qwerp-Derp

They wouldn't be too hard with a pre-made parser

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yeah, I realise that

However, something like Brainfuck isn't hard to implement

Implementing it to be as Turing Complete as possible, is a different problem

Befunge, on the other hand, would be somewhat tricky to parse

Qwerp-Derp

What do you mean "as Turing Complete as possible"?

It's pretty binary if you ask me

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

11:49

Well, a Turing Complete language is limited only by the thing it runs on

So, it would really just be accounting for that

New Main Posts

0

Q: Plot a list of numbers

Are you feeling jealousy towards Mathematica, Matlab et al. for their intricate plotting capabilities? If you answered yes, this challenge is for you! Challenge Given, via parameters or standard input, a list of numbers list and a positive integer h for the height of the plot, write a program/f...

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Not necessarily difficult, but some languages may require a creative approach

ASCII-only

Yeah, but Brainfuck kinda filled up its niche, not many here bother with brainfuck derivatives

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yeah

It was just an example

Qwerp-Derp

There are just too many BF derivatives out there

ASCII-only

11:51

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Brainfuck is as TC as possible

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yes

I'm aware of that

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo creative?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Well

ASCII-only

> Implementing it to be as Turing Complete as possible, is a different problem

Qwerp-Derp

3many5me

ASCII-only

11:51

@Qwerp-Derp what is this, bison?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Wut about Bison

Qwerp-Derp

what

Angs

Whoohoo, there it is, my first question!

ASCII-only

bison is a parser generator (very good for complex languages)

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

What he said

Generally couple with Lex or Flex

Yacc is a similar idea

Qwerp-Derp

11:53

@ASCII-only A parser... wink wink nudge nudge

ASCII-only

bison = new yacc, flex = new lex

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yep

ASCII-only

bison = super hard to understand

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

I played with it a bit, but got confused. Was a while ago though

Yeah, it's weird how it represent a literal AST using text only

Seems like it would make more sense to have a more programmatic approach to the representation

As in, I feel like Bison's AST structure wouldn't be easy to parse in and of itself

ASCII-only

project in active-ish development using bison

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

11:54

Cool

Jison is a Javascript implementation of Bison

Qwerp-Derp

I'm thinking of creating a game website thingo

Where you have to trade stuff between villages

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yeah

Ah, ok

Sounds interesting

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo ?

Qwerp-Derp

And you make money

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo what do you mean

Qwerp-Derp

11:56

IDK I'm just throwing ideas out there

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

@ASCII-only You mean Jison

Qwerp-Derp

What now I'm confused

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Sorry, two convos at once

Destructible Watermelon

@Qwerp-Derp what should team names be?\

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

zaa.ch/jison

ASCII-only

11:57

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Yeah, I've used that before, just not in this project

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

@ASCII-only Ah, cool. I tried to make a custom markup language during a hackathon for it. We ended up making something that converted Skype MD to Slack MD

@Qwerp-Derp Sounds interesting, although I think it would need something special to make it a bit more interesting

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo also pls hover over/click the little button on the left of the reply to see what I'm replying to?

What do you mean by "Yeah, it's weird how it represent a literal AST using text only"

Fatalize

@ASCII-only I have

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

@ASCII-only Oh, that's what confused me when I was using it

Qwerp-Derp

Ooh hang on I've got it

You can conquer other bases, and you can then introduce them to your city

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

11:59

So, kinda like an online Civ

Qwerp-Derp

You can also create things like lumber mills, stone mills, etc.

True, but trading is the most important thing

I kinda want to focus the game on trade

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Sounds interesting

Qwerp-Derp

And idleness

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Maybe if you implement true multiplayer to it, if you hadn't already intended to

New Main Posts

0

Q: Code Golf: BlackJack

The Challenge I was looking into small code examples for a specific language as a small tutorial and came accross a simplified Blackjack that should be implemented. In this Challenge you will have to implement a full Blackjack game, with 5 Decks. The Game You are playing against a Dealer and h...

code-golf game card-games

ASCII-only

12:01

@Fatalize :( nobody else replied, so I guess it's the submissions from PPCG are just Charcoal and Brachylog?

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo ok I'm really confused rn, what message were you replying to?

Fatalize

Possibly

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Latest reply was to the AST thing

Sorry about the confusion

Qwerp-Derp

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Yup, going to implement that when I know how to

Halp how to create web server

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

I could probs help out

ASCII-only

@Qwerp-Derp What language

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

12:02

What language you planning on doing it in

Qwerp-Derp

What language do you guys recommend?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Damn, beat me to it

Qwerp-Derp

PHP?

Python?

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Nah, PHP is a bit old

ASCII-only

PHP = No

Qwerp-Derp

12:02

Node.js (JS)?

ASCII-only

Python/Ruby/JS

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

But I'd reccomend looking into NodeJS, Dart or Python

And ruby

ASCII-only

If I were you I'd use maybe Python + Jinja + Flask/Django, because IIRC you're most fimilar with Python

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Mmm, I don't know

Django was designed for a blogging type use originally, and it still shows

ASCII-only

@MicroTransactionsMatterToo Wait Jison automatically prints AST??

ArtOfCode

12:04

Ruby on Rails is awesome stuff for making web apps.

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

@ASCII-only Huh, not that I know of

I don't know. I never really got into Ruby, but apparently it's great for app stuff

NodeJS is good for web devs

Cause it's just JS

Dart is good for those familiar with C-type languages

Python is python

@ASCII-only The AST thing I was talking about was my earlier comment on Bison

ASCII-only

... Almost every language is C-derived (including JS, and to a lesser extent Python)

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Yes

But I mean, those familiar with C more than a dynamically typed language

Dart is not necessarily typed, but benefits from it

ASCII-only

Sorry, still don't get what you mean by "Yeah, it's weird how it represent a literal AST using text only"

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

Go is also good for fast web servers

@ASCII-only See here: web.eecs.utk.edu/~bvz/teaching/cs461Sp11/notes/parse_tree

ASCII-only

12:07

What about it

How is it weird

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

The bottom, not the top

Sorry, I'm just making things worse

```
%%

input: /* empty */
| exp { cout << "Result: " << $1 << endl; }
;

exp: INTEGER_LITERAL { $$ = $1; }
| exp PLUS exp { $$ = $1 + $3; }
| exp MULT exp { $$ = $1 * $3; }
;

%%
```

Is what I meant

ASCII-only

Yeah, what about this

MicroTransactionsMatterToo

It was initially confusing for me

I get it far more now, but back then I knew bugger all C/C++

Sorry guys, gotta go and be productive

ASCII-only

Not very confusing if you learn about grammars first (which is pretty much what a bison file is - a grammar with inline code)

And the only C++-specific code is the output code

Shebang

12:27

Good morning ;)

TuxCopter

'd afternoon

betseg

'd afternoon

GLASSIC

'd noon

GLASSIC

12:39

I have remembered RIP Ritchie's death, 31 days after its 5th anniversary.

ASCII-only

13:13

Oh look it's muddyfish impostor :P

Kritixi Lithos

'd afternoon

BlueEyedBeast

@ASCII-only sorry what?

ASCII-only

@BlueEyedBeast you have a different name now

BlueEyedBeast

@ASCII-only I was making a joke about the imposter bit. sigh

ASCII-only

Why is everyone different today

I swear I just saw DownTimmyD for a second there

Kritixi Lithos

13:18

We never were the same

New Main Posts

-1

Q: What is the smallest / fastest program in execution time?

So far, I found Pascal program begin end. When I execute it, It takes 280KB of memory and 0MS execution time. Is there a faster and smaller code than this? For example, C program main(){} takes 936KB of memory and 0MS of execution time.

code-golf

ASCII-only

@BlueEyedBeast Yeah I still think you're an impostor because your about still says you're muddy

BlueEyedBeast

@ASCII-only fixed.

I'm just looking at cute pictures of wolves

TimmyD

13:41

@ASCII-only waves hand This is not the TimmyD you're looking for.

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill: Is there something analogous to Bernoulli factories for other kinds of source distributions? I.e., using a die instead of a coin.

TuxCopter

@DestructibleWatermelon Why do you deleted the Turtlèd answer on showcase your language?

Nathan Merrill

14:05

@El'endiaStarman err... What's Bernoulli again?

I'm not really that knowledgeable about stats

El'endia Starman

@El'endiaStarman Ah, shoot, I misremembered. Hey @LuisMendo...

Nathan Merrill

Lol

El'endia Starman

I probably should've done a chat search on "Bernoulli"...

Nathan Merrill

Seriously, of all people to not search the chat...

El'endia Starman

;_; I know I know...

There's a few people in here who regularly talk about math topics, and it can be a bit hard to keep straight who talked about what. Me, you, Luis, flawr, feersum, PhiNotPi, etc...

Nathan Merrill

14:08

In other news I'm a couple bugs away from posting my next KotH :)

El'endia Starman

\o/ Is it the Fellowship one?

Nathan Merrill

Yep

Geobits

Only a couple bugs? Cool, so that's like three or four more months, right? :P

TimmyD

yesterday, by TimmyD

99 little bugs in the code
99 little bugs
Take one down, patch it around
103 little bugs in the code

Nathan Merrill

Lol. I think I have 1 more logic bug, and I have to get the UI for a single character working

But unless I uncover more logic bugs, that's it

TuxCopter

14:22

Have you checked for illogic bugs? :P

TimmyD

logic ilbugs

logic pillbugs

Geobits

Hmm. If you could predict how pillbugs react when they meet another pillbug (vs not meeting one), I guess you could use them as logic gates.

TuxCopter

CMC: Make a pillbug based microprocessor

quartata

We need a pillbug gun first

Someone call Conway and get him to put up a $50 bounty for it

TimmyD

2

Geobits

14:32

mbomb007

Just saw this in code:

try{
	...
}catch(e){/*squelch*/}

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Isn't that a pillbug with a gun, not a pillbug gun?

TimmyD

The gun is obviously sized and shaped to accommodate pillbugs, though.

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman It's uh, both? An aircraft cannon is one mounted on an aircraft, not just one used to shoot them :P

TimmyD

@mbomb007 So, error suppression is on?

Geobits

14:36

Gotta make sure the squelch is turned up or you get all kinds of noise.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits But a potato cannon is one that shoots potatoes (as the ammo), not necessarily what you use to shoot potatoes (as the target).

Geobits

Sure. I'm just saying the phrasing can be used either way.

If I made a harness to attach lasers to sharks, I'd definitely call them shark lasers.

El'endia Starman

...now I'm curious for linguistic reasons.

Geobits

But if I made lasers designed to shoot sharks, I'd call them shark lasers instead.

feersum

What's the wavelength of a shark?

Geobits

14:41

And if I made a device that shot many sharks in an excited state in a focused beam, well... I'd call that a shark laser.

@feersum Depends on the tide and wind I think.

TimmyD

Do sharks make waves? I had thought they were mostly always totally submerged.

Geobits

They do when they're trying to be scary.

TimmyD

Geobits

The "fin-above-water" thing is fairly common, at least near the shores here in Florida. Probably because it's shallower than usual, but it's rare I go to the beach without at least seeing one, even if its a small one.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Are people who live near the beach usually more aware of the fact that shark attacks are actually really rare?

Geobits

14:45

Yeah. Most people don't bother getting out unless it's a big one.

But the big ones are rare.

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits well, the shark, being in an "laser-like" state, I'd call them laser sharks, making the weapon laser shark laser

Geobits

IIRC, nurse sharks are the most common bites around here, but that's mostly because they hang out on the bottom, so people don't know they're there and step on them or kick them.

El'endia Starman

Man, those sharks are bad nurses. </probably-old-overused-joke>

Geobits

@NathanMerrill And if you give one of those to a shark, you'd have a laser shark laser shark.

Nathan Merrill

and then we'd actually have to be scared of sharks

Geobits

14:48

It's a pretty odd feeling having a six-foot shark swim by you though. I don't know if scary is the right word, but apprehensive at least.

Usually when they get to be taller than me I'm done swimming for the day lol

TimmyD

@Geobits And if someone cheats others with those, you'd have a laser shark laser shark shark.

Geobits

Yeah but then you can just shoot them with a laser shark laser shark shark laser as punishment.

El'endia Starman

@TimmyD And if that someone is a laser, then you'd have a laser laser shark laser shark shark!

Nathan Merrill

@El'endiaStarman but if that someone had a dog, then it'd be a dog!

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Haha, gotta appreciate those funny anti-jokes...

TimmyD

14:54

Reminds me of buffalo buffalo buffalo.

Oliver

hi guys

Geobits

Hi! Are you here for the free shark lasers?

TimmyD

Free?

Geobits

Or was that laser sharks?

El'endia Starman

@TimmyD Yeah, free for the first twelve months.

Geobits

14:56

That's how they get ya

Oliver

im oiler v

TimmyD

Laser shark layaway

El'endia Starman

@Oliver You really don't need to say that every time.

Oliver

ok, ok

TheBitByte

Hello there! I've [improved one of my questions significantly](https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/90887/recam%C3%A1ns-triangular-fibonacci) and I'm looking for feedback on what I can do to make it better.

Thank you.

Oliver

14:56

did you guys notice this

TimmyD

@TheBitByte FYI you need http:// or https:// for the linky to work right

Oliver

El'endia Starman

@TimmyD They also need to make it a single-line message. Markdown breaks in multiline messages.

Oliver

stack exchange and new york stock exchange logos are strikingly similar

El'endia Starman

@Oliver That's a great observation. I'll bet that SE drew a little inspiration from NYSE.

Oliver

14:58

i just found that out

because i was trying to say new york stock exchange

TheBitByte

@TimmyD I indeed have used it. There seems to be an error in chat markdown.

Oliver

but i said

new york stack exchange by accident

Transcript for