The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-11-12 (page 1 of 6)

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12:00 AM

This question is funny, just shows how scared people are.

I need to sleep, see you in 10~11H

@LuisMendo i'm no expert of quines, but my understanding is that there is a template that, for any function f that takes a string to a string, makes a generalized quine whose code c outputs f(c).

@LuisMendo Martin explains it better here

@xnor Anyway, if an infinite chain is possible, the current formulation already moves that to the highest scores, with ties decided by length. So better keep it as it is? That way finite chains can also participate. They would only be non-winning if an infinite chain is posted. Or do you see any drawback to allowing finite ones?

TF2 chat por favor

> Os

12:02 AM

@ASCII-only Thanks :-)

How exactly is an infinite chain possible

Currently all the infinite chains would give the same score, but you could explicitly state that code length is the tie breaker

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@AlexA. ???

user image

8

> Ties with other infinite sequences will be resolved by smallest L.

12:03 AM

@LuisMendo i'd say that having tiebreak be what inevitably distinguishes answers makes it a chameleon challenge, though i see that point about not needlessly limiting participation

Quality conversations going on.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ quartata and downgoat were talking about tf2, that was a request that they continue the discussion in the dedicated chat room for it

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oic

@ASCII-only Ah thanks - I missed that

cool! :D

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

12:04 AM

@Downgoat i have to go, sorry

;_; ok bai

@xnor I agree, borderline chameleon. But my fear is that requiring an infinite chain will make it very difficult

→ 11 messages moved to PPCG TF2 Server

@trichoplax I think that's already specified

@LuisMendo i'd suggest getting a second opinion here. i thought the infinite chain was the natural solution and the first thing that came to mind, but maybe that's just me

El'endia Starman

12:05 AM

@LuisMendo Really? Huh. So there's not very much research into stuff like how to simulate a fair die with a biased die?

@LuisMendo Yes, ASCII-only just quoted the bit I overlooked :)

@ArtOfCode Thank you

@quartata what is a map cycle

@El'endiaStarman Not that I know of. But actually I haven't looked into it...

@ArtOfCode thanks

12:07 AM

@ConorO'Brien stop pinging me with tf questions in here

vicious cycle

@quartata Except @Downgoat?

@El'endiaStarman But it sounds interesting. My first thought is: can't that be decomposed as five "nested" Bernoulli variables?

@quartata sorry

Calvin's Hobbies

@DrMcMoylex You'll get used to it.

^^ Or just define a Bernoulli variable from the original die, say even/odd outcomes. From that it's easy to generate 1/2-Bernoulli variables, or p-Bernoulli variables for any fixed value p; and combining those you get the 1/6-die

"Calvin's"??

You changed your name back \o/

12:12 AM

@LuisMendo I think I have an easier infinite solution: say the code Q is a modified quine that prints Q, then prints Q again. I claim that this gives an infinite entropy chain Q -> Q;Q -> Q;Q;Q;Q -> Q;Q;Q;Q;Q;Q;Q;Q (where the semicolons should be newlines)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrMcMoylex portal 2 in 30 minutes or so?

there's a 75% chance I can

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Maybe. I'm going rock climbing tonight and I still need to do the podcast and eat dinner and get ready, and whatnot

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

cool

@DrMcMoylex ... there is no more podcast though afaik rn?

@xnor Good one. That's convincing

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

but okay, have fun!

12:15 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Oh really? I Have no idea what the plan is

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ No more podcast???

No, minxomat decided he could no longer take remotely troubleshooting everyone's microphones

@xnor Makes it kinda sound like a dupe, though IDK if that has been asked before

That's understandable, haha

@AlexA. Link?

12:18 AM

Was yolk

Just noticed, so many people here are animals

(unrelated) it's always really awkward when someone I know gets engaged

@Calvin'sHobbies Ooooh, no I won't, haha

@ASCII-only Excuse me?

@TheBitByte What, forest != animal

12:22 AM

@DrMcMoylex Just setup today. That was way faster than I expected

Ok, cool

@ASCII-only Are you a bot?

@TheBitByte No, why

@ASCII-only You feel like one.

@Calvin'sHobbies I missed the rename announcement! FWIW, I like you either way :P

3

12:25 AM

Awwwww <3

@Calvin'sHobbies Your old name was much better.

define "old"

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ASCII-only no, it's just mostly over for the day

@NathanMerrill The previous one?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrMcMoylex i meant over for the day

12:27 AM

@TheBitByte Calvin's Hobbies is the oldest name

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@AlexA. .... TIL alex has a non-mod but higher rep sock, @Calvin'sHobbies

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Your webcam is on. I can see you

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrMcMoylex wtf

@trichoplax Okay, Helka Homba was the better name.

In jitsi

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

12:28 AM

shit, thanks

@DrMcMoylex Does he look like a cat

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

>_<

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You're kidding, right?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@ASCII-only yes

my secret is out

Haha, I tried to tell you in there, but you didn't respond

Destructible Watermelon

12:29 AM

wat

@LuisMendo I made a snippet that does calculate the entropy and included it in your post, I hope that was ok=)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@DrMcMoylex I had it open in another window, couldn't see it

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You didn't have to swear at me, you know. That's rude....

Destructible Watermelon

I need halps

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@TheBitByte yeah, but that was also pretty rude of you (before edit)

12:29 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Huh? What swear word did I ever say?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> rude

that doesn't mean swear

and I also thought you had replied to a different message

Destructible Watermelon

how should I deal with bots picking up artifact/flag, and have other bots be able to tell?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

?

link to KOTH?

Destructible Watermelon

how about the floobits thing

as well

floobits.com/Destructible-Watermelon/Maze_KotH/file/test.py:47

@DestructibleWatermelon I'm always for giving as much information as possible

12:30 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Okay, name one occasion I was rude in? You're the one who sweared by the way, don't blame me for what you did. And I'd rather not argue right now...

Destructible Watermelon

TBH the sandbox page is a bit out of date and stuff

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

> "what the???"

@TheBitByte whatever, i'm out

gtg eat dinner

see you guys!

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That was a sarcastic comment. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

@DestructibleWatermelon I haven't seen floobits. I quite like the site

@flawr Hey, that's great! Thanks!

12:33 AM

@LuisMendo Any advances regarding the infinite chains?

@DestructibleWatermelon wait why did you leave :(

Destructible Watermelon

@ASCII-only ?

@DestructibleWatermelon idk, might have been my internet

@flawr Yes. xnor totally convinced me :-)

Destructible Watermelon

so, how the Koth works

There is a maze

you can look is 8 directions

by using the look command

which works all at the same time

12:35 AM

@DestructibleWatermelon maybe chat in floobits?

PPCG Podcast

For discussion about the PPCG Podcast

PPCG Podcast

For discussion about the PPCG Podcast

noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

ninja'd

→ 13 messages moved to PPCG Podcast

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

invite + 2 links

12:38 AM

@LuisMendo so what are you going to do about it?=)

→ 15 messages moved to PPCG Podcast

wait @mınxomaτ

You made ALWSL?

@flawr I'll edit the challenge to require infinite chains

@wat Yes. And I know I'm behind the release cycle by like three weeks.

> a few days

12:40 AM

Yes yes yes, I know.

@wat Is that the Arch Linux on Windows thingy?

ye

I've added an archlinux dev to the team so future releases might be here sooner.

github.com/alwsl/alwsl

@LuisMendo And do you already have an idea regarding the score?

12:41 AM

@flawr Actually that simplifies the score: just L (length of the initial code)

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Maltysen what was the reason your dad said no?

just creepy dude from another country on the interblag?

Isn't that enough reason? lol

@LuisMendo How about the entropy of the initial string?=)

@DrMcMoylex Normative reason, or explanatory reason? :D

@DestructibleWatermelon pls give write permission to floobits

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

12:46 AM

@DrMcMoylex my parents are fine with it :p

@LuisMendo Or what about e.g. the difference or quotient between initial entropy and the limit of the entropy for the infinite chain?

Destructible Watermelon

2 days ago, by ASCII-only

koth = eww

>:(

@DestructibleWatermelon koth is still eww but i'm almost bored to death right now ;_;

Destructible Watermelon

nope

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

12:49 AM

@ASCII-only You're just like my friends who think everything is eww :(

@Qwerp-Derp define everything

:(

@DestructibleWatermelon ;__________; why are you not accepting bribe of terminal

@flawr But then you could follow the chain and pick subsequent strings to improve your score. So it would have to be the final entropy value

@Qwerp-Derp ?

12:52 AM

Argh I have exams coming up

@flawr Oh, that might be a better one. Not sure if better than just code-length, though

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

RIP Qwerp, died of not studying because he was in chat.

almost never studies

Destructible Watermelon

@ASCII-only >:( I'm still annoyed

;_; RIP Qwerp-Derp XXXX-2016

"Argh I have exams coming up"

12:56 AM

hi

Atom's coffeescript highlighting is borked

lol

i forgot, is fish spelled ><> or <><

Destructible Watermelon

><>

thanks

I survive fine but yeah not studying is a really bad idea

12:58 AM

WTF

Why is WSL's apt-get so slow

@Oliver How do you forget it's on my avatar

It's literally downloading at 10 kb/s right now

@DestructibleWatermelon ;_;

What are your opinions on analytical essays?

@Oliver It's spelled fish

12:59 AM

@wat No, that's a shell

@ASCII-only i know, I use it

@wat 0/10 fish is worst shell

@Qwerp-Derp Then use Vim instead

@ASCII-only :(

y

when i was younger i never understood why 0!=1

1:01 AM

zsh + oh-my-zsh > bash > fish > every other unix shell > powershell > cmd

I used zsh before switching to fish

@ASCII-only chat.stackexchange.com/… You're the "IHE" of this chatroom :(

okay, fixed

@Qwerp-Derp pfft what are you talking about that's only slightly over 1/3 of all "0/10"s

@flawr I think you are right. Using just length as score results in a dull challenge (little more than producing an infinite chain of quines). I'd like to combine length with entropy of the code. Maybe length of initial code divided by entropy of the initial code. Or divided by the limit; but the limit may be hard to compute in some cases

@ASCII-only You have the most 0/10s

1:05 AM

@ASCII-only what is your favorite OMZ theme?

I like agnoster

Yes agnoster is the most popular theme by far, agnoster is the best

@ASCII-only Put powershell right at the top.

@ASCII-only everyone?

@DestructibleWatermelon but i thought you wanted help

@ASCII-only I use geoffgarside

1:08 AM

@AlexA. Screenshot?

user image

wtf

what is that color scheme

@ASCII-only TBH around 20% of the 0/10 search results aren't really 0/10's, so you technically account for more than 1/2 of the 0/10s

@wat Gruvbox

quartata and Easterly are next down in line

1:10 AM

I use base16 colors for literally everything—urxvt, vim, i3, gtk, and my assortment of dark-theme userstyles for various websites.

@AlexA. What screenshot app do you use? I like the white background.

I use solarized.

I used to use Solarized Dark but got tired of it

@TheBitByte White background?

@ASCII-only I can't see that image, it's on a private Slack team

1:11 AM

@TheBitByte Native Mac screenshot. Cmd+shift+4, space, click

@ASCII-only I mean the little neon shading on the window. That was cool.

@wat damnit

@wat Admittedly Julia's use of stark white doesn't look good in that color scheme, but I quite like everything else.

people

hi people

@AlexA. what no, I like it!

1:13 AM

user image

@Doorknob Base16 is alright but I didn't like how it colored things in the Julia Vim plugin so I decided against it. :P

@ASCII-only please consider uploading an uncompressed version of that image

...what's wrong with it?

Aw you deleted it. I thought that comment was funny.

user image

Here's what base16 looks like

1:15 AM

@ArtOfCode It has noticeable jpeg atifacts

@Doorknob +1 for using Adobe Source Code Pro

@wat this is uncompressed, it's a png

I use monokai for most things, don't exactly remember what my terminal uses

@wat I don't see why that's a problem for a (no offense, ASCII-only) largely uninteresting screenshot of a terminal

@AlexA. Was your suggestion :)

I know :)

1:17 AM

anyone else like the terminus font?

@wat I'm not seeing 'em. Check your monitor, given that it is in fact a PNG :)

@AlexA. None taken, I didn't exactly intend for my terminal to be interesting, I could have used hyperpower but it's way too fancy for me

@wat I see no artifacts

Most terminals aren't interesting, at least in screenshots

Base16 is okay, but I prefer Monokai because more contrast makes things easier for me

@Doorknob Something I learned recently: Use XeLaTeX, \usepackage{fontspect}, \setmonofont{Source Code Pro}.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:19 AM

@DrMcMoylex not gonna make it by 5:30-45, sorry

@wat Nope :P Menlo for Powerline >>>>>>> terminus :P

@wat Not particularly. Makes me feel like I should be using DOS.

What do people have as their system (non-monospace) font?

user image

@ConorO'Brien can you type status into console and tell me output?

1:22 AM

@AlexA. How's that for an interesting terminal? :P

user image

(It loses something without the super-fast scrolling text, Mission Impossible music, and keyboard mashing, though.)

i use cantarell as x font and terminus size 12/16px as my terminal font

@Doorknob Point taken :P

@Downgoat where is tf2 room?

1:23 AM

PPCG TF2 Server - Shut down now

This room is kept for posterity, but the server has been shut ...

@Doorknob can't tell if partially legitmate or all complete BS :P

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ No worries. I can't either

@Downgoat hollywood - fill your console with Holly melodrama technobabble

I'm sure we'll be able to play eventually with the holidays coming up

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

cool lol

user image

there's those compression artifacts

...and even that uploaded image has them

1:27 AM

... PNG is lossless

Disabled it and quality instantly improved

Hmm, maybe it stops downloading the PNG at a smaller size and scales up?

@wat IDK how you've been able to live with that for so long :P

No, it recompresses the image to jpg on Google's servers -_-

...crap

that means

I need to delete about 300 reddit comments about image quiality

...brb

user image

was getting only about 8mbps down and 3mbps up before.

-_-

Calvin's Hobbies

@wat Maybe cut back on the swearing a bit? I think the policy in here is to be kid friendly.

@wat Hey, congrats on 4-digit rep!

1:31 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies Sorry. I just realized something that was really bothering me, I was letting it out. This probably isn't the best place

@DrMcMoylex I noticed a while ago:

2 days ago, by wat

user image

But thanks anyway!!

user image

Umm wat?

How?

@wat Imgur and Google are two different things...

I themed my browser what have I done with my life

Also, what browser?

1:35 AM

Vivaldi

@ArtOfCode Google was acting as a compression proxy, which compressed images

@wat What do you mean, it's just CSS

vivaldi?

Ah, that'd do it

@ASCII-only OK.

1:36 AM

@ASCII-only what OS is that?

> AdBlock Plus

@Oliver What about it

Use uBlock Origin or get out

@ArtOfCode Ubuntu, custom theme based on Adapta-nokto

That theme would drive me insane

1:37 AM

Also with Unity top bar thing shadow replaced with blank image (can't see the effect of it here though)

@Geobits Why

im working on a browser

I think it's the lack of separation. It looks like everything's just thrown onto one panel.

@Geobits That's what I intended to do :P

I figured that, I just couldn't bear it :P

BTW for chat it's Doorknob's theme plus userscript to turn background of SE chat to #2a373e, plus SE Chat Modifications + extension mostly for commands, partly for custom command to hide sidebar

Destructible Watermelon

1:40 AM

3 or so days late Gratz @wat for getting 1000 rep

hiding sidebar makes SE chat look so mugh less cluttered on small screens

Get a bigger screen

Also forgive me for killing everyone's eyes by removing vertical spacing

@AlexA. not gonna happen, I'm not gonna get a laptop that's like 1kg heavier just for a bigger screen

nor am i gonna get a laptop that is the same weight but costs $2k

@ASCII-only But... but...stars...

4

@Geobits Yes, /s (two keystrokes) to toggle sidebar

1:43 AM

But...but...

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

Huh

Was looking though old files of mine, found this one by the name of minecraft.txt:

Acc=9.8 m/s^2=0.0245 m/tick^2

p=1.293 kg/m^3
v=0.0245 m/tick^2*t ticks
A=Area (m^2) of orthographic projection of entity

No idea

Well, I usually have the sidebar visible

@Geobits If you think that's bad, you should see the topbar panels and non-maximized windows :P

I'll pass, but thanks ;)

No box-shadow + no border + same color

I had a feeling it was something like that.

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

1:50 AM

This is just strange, it's from several years ago:

Federalists...                                                   █   █ █████   ███
•aren't called "Nationalists" because of political risks          █ █  █      █
•wanted the new government to safeguard the liberty and            █   █     █
independence caused by the American Revolution                     █   █████  ███
•were supported by most newspapers                                 █   █         █
•were more afraid of excess democracy than power                   █   █        █
•were well organized, well funded, and made careful use of the     █   █████ ███

@Geobits Is your avatar a skull with downvotes for eyes?

@AlexA. And nose

Yes. Why yes it is :D

Alright, just checking

:O just realized welcome back Skullbits

4

1:51 AM

I did it just for Halloween, but Dennis made me keep it.

~~Skullobits~~ Skullbits

Personally I liked the downstairs

Downstairs was nice too :)

@Geobits Just goes to show just how powerful Dennis' eleven is

Oh, I wouldn't have given him a star-dare if I wasn't fully intending to do it lol

I know how stars work around here.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ pretty much just that

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:53 AM

:/

oh well

he was like there is a small risk that he's a serial killer and we have no way to verify his identity especially since he's in germany

Why would it matter if he's a serial killer? It's not like you're going to go hang out in his house alone at night.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

@AlexA. that's what I said

it wasn't specifically a serial killer

And then you can brag about how you did a podcast with a serial killer.

9

1:56 AM

Plus he's in Germany, he isn't going to fly over to wherever you are just to kill you :P (well, I'd think most serial killers wouldn't do that)

@AlexA. If that was the offer, I probably would have passed also

but he said this is how scams start with you starting to get comfortable with a person and things escalate

> The perpetrator known as minxomat

@DrMcMoylex haha

@DrMcMoylex Ah yes. That.

1:57 AM

@Maltysen ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

@Maltysen To be fair, that is true.

But also paranoid ;)

@Geobits they are very paranoid

I can kind of understand their perspective.

I mean, what is minxomat anyways an elk or something

You can't spell "parents" without "paranoid"

can't trust an elk

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:58 AM

yes you can

@Maltysen Makes sense.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

p-a-r-e-n-t-s

@Geobits BTW I forgot to mention - that seemingly blank space to the right of the rightmost tab? That's a new tab :P

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

i see no o-i-d

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That isn't how you spell paranoidents.

1:58 AM

XD

3 hours ago, by Alex A.

Trust the moose

@ASCII-only shudder

Jun 3 at 20:46, by Alex A.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ A parentoid. Something like, but not exactly an actual parent.

Ah, GTG. By all

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:59 AM

@mınxomaτ why not parentzoidberg?

@mınxomaτ I thought it was just like a 3D parent

@AlexA. You would say that. Didn't you used to be a Canadian goose?

>_>

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The Nineteenth Byte

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