The Nineteenth Byte

Conor O'Brien

02:00

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

PhiNotPi

Is anyone willing to... get me up to speed on what all I missed?

Conor O'Brien

@PhiNotPi we have new members! Almost all of them are good!

Geobits

I mean, I know all about BASIC itself. It's the first thing I learned. I just don't know if this version in particular is worth actually paying money for.

> Almost

quartata

We reached a new record of one instance of a mod moving things to trash per day

Geobits

lol, yes

Conor O'Brien

02:01

yes, that word is the most important one

quartata

Hence the ROs

Geobits

Every time I see "RO" my brain replaces it with Ragnarok Online at first :/

quartata

In general this place has become a fetid stinking damp and foul swamp bereft of life

2

so everything is normal

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi here's the gist of it:

No offense Alex, but you haven't been extremely active in chat recently. We've had almost three straight days of one user causing pain for everyone in TNB. Flags have done nothing except for bringing mods and 10K users in to tell us to only flag blatantly offensive posts, and even mod flags have done nothing to take care of the problematic user. If that's the best we can do when someone wants to be unpleasant, TNB might as well not be moderated. — DJMcMayhem Aug 25 at 0:07

Nathan Merrill

can we just move beyond the hiccups we've had?

DJMcMayhem

02:03

But that was a while ago. It's better now

Nathan Merrill

for example, Elendia parsed chat into a database, which we can query

5

so that's really cool

DJMcMayhem

That's true

quartata

Conor's usernme is ASCII only

DJMcMayhem

And everyone is obsessed with dreaming

quartata

and we had an interesting CnR

Nathan Merrill

02:04

we've got a bunch of mainstream languages in development. The biggest one IMO is Cheddar

DJMcMayhem

And 50% of people like nethack and the other 50% are sick of it

quartata

@NathanMerrill oi

Conor O'Brien

I've surprisingly made more languages.

DJMcMayhem

I'm in the first group

@ConorO'Brien s/su/unsu

Geobits

@DJMcMayhem I wouldn't be surprised if some people are in both groups.

Conor O'Brien

02:05

yes, it was sarcasm

ASCII-only

@quartata No it isn't :P

@NathanMerrill A bunch?

Nathan Merrill

we've had a ridiculous number of name changes.

DJMcMayhem

@Geobits I guess so. I just recently got hooked, but I'd agree most of it should stay in its own room

Nathan Merrill

@ASCII-only cheddar, pytek, elegance. 3 is quite a bit

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Wait elegance? Link?

Conor O'Brien

02:07

wat about dyia ;-;

Geobits

@NathanMerrill I made mine slanty, but other than that I've been quite restrained on the anagram thing lately.

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill yeah but none of those are "new" per se

ASCII-only

Cheddar and Pytek can be considered ancient now

Nathan Merrill

@ASCII-only its mine. I've talked quite about it here, but I don't have everything in one spot for people to view

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat

quartata

02:08

Unfortunately Cheddar has far more manpower

ASCII-only

@quartata But it's only downgoat/conor iirc

Conor O'Brien

@quartata I would help you except me and python have a love-hate relationship

@ASCII-only ಠ_ಠ I am helping

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien i know

DJMcMayhem

@ASCII-only easterly is helping I think

Conor O'Brien

nope

DJMcMayhem

02:09

And quill a little?

quartata

And Quill, Legion and you (mars)

ASCII-only

Isn't that the same amount as pytek though (most of the time)

Plus Pytek is closed-contributor

Conor O'Brien

that is true

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill do you have everything in one dir

DJMcMayhem

Oh the other notable thing is the podcast (if it's still happening)

Geobits

02:10

There's a podcast? o_O

When did this happen?

DJMcMayhem

It hasn't yet

Geobits

Oh. So I'm not crazy. Thanks.

DJMcMayhem

mınxomaτ is planning it

Ask him

PhiNotPi

I need to figure out what programming project I should do next.

ASCII-only

@PhiNotPi Cheddar :P

quartata

02:11

Yeah Pytek is 100% elendia and me. I don't think anyone else has seen what code we have yet even

Conor O'Brien

@PhiNotPi you should make Phi's Golfo Supremo Two-o

@quartata I've seen a bit of it

Geobits

@PhiNotPi You should plan and develop a hit game and give it to me to publish. I'll take a mere 15% fee.

PhiNotPi

@ConorO'Brien I haven't even made version one-o.

El'endia Starman

@ASCII-only For now.

ASCII-only

@quartata Well I saw the latest c9 code (which is ancient)

quartata

02:12

Speaking of whcich I really need to get back on the Pytek grind

ASCII-only

@El'endiaStarman I know, just saying that there's a reason Pytek has 2 manpower

Nathan Merrill

@ASCII-only I have the code in one spot, syntax in another, and a rough "core values" in a google docs

quartata

@El'endiaStarman can you unfreeze

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Oh wait elegance is that one

Conor O'Brien

@PhiNotPi hop to it? :P

El'endia Starman

02:13

@quartata I'm prioritizing this website I'm building, which has to be done in a week and a half. After that, I'd love to get working on Pytek again.

ASCII-only

Elegance is pretty ancient too

Nathan Merrill

you all have a weird definition of ancient

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman is pytek all in python :/

PhiNotPi

Scientists Upload Worm's Mind Into a Lego Robot

►

3

El'endia Starman

@ConorO'Brien Yup. Well, for now.

ASCII-only

02:13

A few months old = ancient in my eyes

El'endia Starman

We hope to have JS and C backends eventually.

ASCII-only

@El'endiaStarman Downgoat can probably help with the JS backend :P

DJMcMayhem

Hey question for the more experienced in python: is there any point to returning after a generator is done generating?

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi make a KoTH! I used KoTHComm on my last challenge, so it at least works :)

quartata

I don't know if those will be written in JS or C though, just emitting it

El'endia Starman

02:14

@DJMcMayhem Isn't that a syntax error or something?

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem it says "the generator is finished"

AFAIK

returning a value is an error, but I think you can still do return

DJMcMayhem

@El'endiaStarman I don't think it is

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman I can help with JS backend! :D

El'endia Starman

@quartata True. Once the Pytek parser/interpreter is finished, though, it shouldn't be too hard to port to other languages.

DJMcMayhem

@NathanMerrill is there any reason to do/not do that?

quartata

02:16

True yeah. It's fairly modular at least currently

DJMcMayhem

I'm designing a python API that will require a lot of generators

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem the same reason you would return early in any function. To say "I'm done"

El'endia Starman

@DJMcMayhem Perhaps you can raise StopIteration?

Geobits

@PhiNotPi Great. Now I have to find this neuron map and play with virtual worm brains.

DJMcMayhem

Well, I don't mean early, I just mean at normal function end.

Nathan Merrill

02:18

then, no

DJMcMayhem

For example:

def squares(n):
    for i in range(n):
        yield n ** 2
    return something

Nathan Merrill

either "something" would never get returned, or that will throw an error

because what gets returned from squares is a generator, not something

El'endia Starman

>>> def squares(n):
	for i in range(n):
		yield i**2
	return n

>>> for j in squares(5): print(j)

0
1
4
9
16
>>>

No error, apparently.

feersum

Really?

SyntaxError: 'return' with argument inside generator

Nathan Merrill

python 2 or 3?

feersum

02:20

For me in Python 2.

El'endia Starman

Python 3.5 here.

DJMcMayhem

Ah, I'm using 3

Nathan Merrill

...that's weird

why is 3 looser with its syntax

PhiNotPi

@Geobits the main project page: openworm.org/index.html neural database: ims.dse.ibaraki.ac.jp/ccep

Nathan Merrill

18

Q: Return in generator together with yield in Python 3.3

In Python 2 there was an error when return was together with yield in function definition. But for this code in Python 3.3 def f(): return 3 yield 2 x = f() print(x.__next__()) there is no error that return is used in function with yield. However when the function __next__ is called then ...

Geobits

02:21

Thanks! Note to room: If I disappear for another week, it's not because another storm hit. Phi linked me to worm brains.

6

DJMcMayhem

New esolang: Worm Brains

PhiNotPi

I do think making a physically realistic neural network simulator would be a cool project.

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi Oh, the other thing you missed is Leaky leaving, and everybody's eyes becoming leaky

PhiNotPi

@DJMcMayhem any particular reason?

DJMcMayhem

Yeah, he has a huge test coming up and he's studying for it.

Aug 31 at 16:29, by Leaky Nun

I really don't want to do this

quartata

02:27

He's only going to be gone for 8 months which isn't really that long

Geobits

You can barely even make a baby in eight months.

quartata

So I'm not horribly heartbroken. I do hope he does well on it

@Geobits idk how babby is formed help

Geobits

Damn, I keep forgetting how young the users are in here :/

DJMcMayhem

@quartata Yeah, I wasn't too horribly heartbroken until he posted that really long goodbye letter... ;_;

quartata

'twas yolk

Geobits

02:29

aye, 'twas

quartata

In other news apparently Nintendo is going to make a Mario infinite runner

literally physically cringing

Geobits

A few years late to the party, huh?

quartata

Iwata would never have stood for this travesty

Geobits

Next up: Mario Guitar Hero

quartata

@Geobits They're going to make tons of dough of course

Geobits

02:34

I dunno. It's not like they make much off Mario Tennis or Mario Olympics.

Mario's done everything under the sun. Let him run for a while.

quartata

Nintendo IP on phones is like printing million dollar bills though. Just look at Go

PhiNotPi

@quartata they should make the whole game simply that infinite staircase from Super Mario 64.

El'endia Starman

Pokémon Go is a Niantic game though, isn't it?

quartata

finger of god marketing + childhood nostalgia + easily accessed platform

Geobits

Sure it's niantic, but it wouldn't be what it is without Pokemon.

quartata

02:35

@PhiNotPi bwahaha yess

Add a backwards long jump DLC for 99 cents

DJMcMayhem

OMG this looks glorious:

Rocket League® - Rumble Trailer

►

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Yeah, but what I'm trying to get at is: is Nintendo actually making any money off of Pokémon Go?

Conor O'Brien

oh hey my profile updated, finally

I am no longer a trippy hippy

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman Nintendo is part owner of Niantic (unsure what %), and owns 32% of the Pokemon Company. I'm sure they're getting a fat licensing deal if nothing else.

Plus, it's going to profit immensely later this year. I expect Sun/Moon sales to be higher than normal, given the incredible amount of Pokemon media this year.

quartata

And the wristband thingy is probably going to show up in a lot of stockings

#tistheseasontomakesomedough

Conor O'Brien

02:42

TROL LO LO LO LO, LO LO LO LO

El'endia Starman

> Despite Nintendo only owning a 32% stake in the Pokémon franchise, an undisclosed stake in Niantic, and prospectively receiving only 30% of the Pokémon Go sales revenue, (source)

They do get a proportion of sales from microtransactions within the game.

quartata

All in all I'm sure Nintendo isn't hurting. With almost 100 million downloads, even if only 10% make a measly $2 micro-transaction that's $20mil which is about what they made on a so-so SNES game

Geobits

Ah. Even better for them then :)

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Huh. Less than I thought

El'endia Starman

...probably should've quoted the next part too.

> Nintendo's market value increased by US$9 billion within five days of release of Pokémon Go.

Geobits

02:46

> By September 2016, Pokémon Go had generated more than $440 million dollars in worldwide revenue, according to SensorTower.

quartata

actually, s/so-so/good/g

@Geobits That's far more than they ever made on most of their games

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman IIRC, it dropped almost all the way back down in the following weeks.

@quartata Oh definitely. Even at only 30% it's more than most.

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Yeah, apparently mostly right after they said they didn't actually make the game. :P

> By July 22, Nintendo gained ¥1.8 trillion ($17.6 billion) in market capitalization since the game's launch.[83] However, following clarification from Nintendo that the company did not produce Pokémon Go nor have tangible financial gains from it, its stock fell by 18%—equating to a ¥708 billion ($6.7 billion) loss in market value—on July 25.[83][84] This was the largest single-day decline for Nintendo since 1990 and the maximum one-day exchange of finances allowed on the Tokyo Stock Exchange.

Geobits

Wonder how many people cashed out big on that stock.

quartata

Good SNES game probably made about $20-50mil, CD based ones less so. So that's a lot of dough for mostly nothing

@Geobits chachachaching

El'endia Starman

02:50

> At launch, the game suffered from frequent server outages due to extreme usage.[87] Frequent crashes and authentication errors plagued the game's release and persisted for several days. ... John Hanke issued an apology for the server issues at Comic Con 2016, stating "we weren't provisioned for what happened".[35]

To be fair, I doubt they really could've expected how many people would play the game.

quartata

It's freakin' Pokemon

El'endia Starman

Really. Who in their right mind would expect their app to become #1 ever, worldwide, within a few days.

quartata

I'm sure GTS tanked on HGSS and BW release dates too

New Meta Posts

0

Q: What are the guidelines for formulating a Cops and Robbers style challenge?

I've been slowly forming in my head a question for a Cops and Robbers style code challenge, and it occurred to me that I actually don't really know the general details of how they're set out... Is there anything here on PPCG that can either point me in the right direction, or at least general gui...

discussion policy code-challenge

Geobits

Yea, but HGSS have only sold ~12M copies ever. Go got that in days.

quartata

02:54

Off topic but I have to say I don't really miss DPPt or BW's GTS. I think I only ever got one good trade on there, rest were people asking for lvl 9 legendaries or cloning

Geobits

Yeah, I didn't use GTS much in BW.

It helped me out a lot in ORAS though, filling in the dex.

quartata

I have not played ORAS. I really lost interest in Pokemon after XY introduces Mega Evolution

I did like that XY had hats though.

Geobits

Everyone likes hats :D

Downgoat

:O apple discontinued the uber-expensive gold watches

Geobits

The megas aren't game-breaking though. I could do without them, but it's not the worst thing they could have done. Poffins, anyone?

quartata

02:58

It just changed the meta too much for me. I used to be really into comp and now I don't understand anything in it

I was able to deal with IV -> V but not V -> VI

ASCII-only

Halp I need something else to do for some reason my brain always dies when I try working on something Cheddar-related

Geobits

Breeding/training is quite a bit easier now, though. It's not nearly as hard to get your IVs, EVs, and moves right.

@ASCII-only This is what happens when you get too close to ancient cheese. The fumes are toxic.

Downgoat

^

you must be eating too much cheese. try eating some fruits, vegtables and grains

Geobits

Has anyone played Shin Megami Tensei 4? I just started it, and I'm still trying to decide whether I like it or not. Tough call.

ASCII-only

@Downgoat But I don't eat cheese often, like only once a day

Downgoat

03:10

oh

you're not eating enough then

quartata

@Downgoat what about tin cans?

By the way I recently saw an ad for goat salami (for real). mmm-mmm

(I'm not actually convinced it would be all that good)

Downgoat

@quartata im not sure what you're expecting to achieve by telling me this, except me getting pissed off at you.

quartata

I was mostly expecting a witty response about goat cruelty considering it's all in jest but I guess you're a little more serious about dumb goat foods than I had thought

How do I cast an int to a boolean cleanly in JS?

Downgoat

@quartata ";_; Y U DO DIS Q____Q" is not exactly witty response :P

@quartata don't

quartata

I know I can do +0

Downgoat

03:17

just leave it as an int

quartata

Sorry I meant the other way around

cant edit

Downgoat

oh. same thing

just rely on implicit casting

explicit casting is just extra slowness

Geobits

How can it possibly be slower? o_O

Downgoat

idk extra thing to do?

every time you do something with a value it'll probably try to cast it

so have the interpreter do it itself

Geobits

I dunno. If it has to cast anyway, it seems like telling it what to cast it to would be quicker than letting it figure it out.

But probably not enough difference in speed to ever matter in real terms either way.

Downgoat

03:19

even if you do that it'll still try to figure it out anyway

ASCII-only

@quartata +true? or !!0

Downgoat

though if you're coding in JS speed is not something you can really improve no matter what you do

it's just good JS practice from my experience

ASCII-only

@quartata Otherwise use the actual cast functions (i.e. constructors) Number(true) and Boolean(1)

quartata

Oh hey those are nice

Geobits

Number(Boolean(1))

I do like that casting syntax better than Java's. (Class) variable is terribly ugly.

ASCII-only

03:23

@Geobits why ;_;

Geobits

And half the time you have to parenthesize the other part too :/

ASCII-only

Oh yeah

Geobits

@ASCII-only There are very few things I like better about JS. I can at least be honest when I see one ;)

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits I completely agree with this

actually, "casting" as a language feature doesn't make much sense IMO

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Why

Nathan Merrill

03:27

because its just a subset of a constructor

Geobits

I'd rather have that than have to do a new Something(x) every time though.

Even if it's just sugar.

Nathan Merrill

it says "Create an integer from this double"

Downgoat

@Geobits you can do that

Nathan Merrill

well, sure new is redundant

feersum

@NathanMerrill Not always.

ASCII-only

03:27

It's not a constructor most of the time

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill no it actually returns an object instead

feersum

If you do (Class) x in Java, you're reinterpeting a pointer to one type as a different one.

Geobits

@Downgoat I know I can, but typing new hurts.

ASCII-only

You're usually supposed to use it to turn something into a more specific child class

Nathan Merrill

hmm...there are really two types of casting here

feersum

03:28

No new object is constructed if you're casting to a class type.

Nathan Merrill

one is conversion casting

which makes sense as a constructor

Downgoat

afaik (class) foo is not actually casting but telling Java to treat foo as class

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill integer/double are primitive iirc so you can't use constructor

Nathan Merrill

the other is changing the type signature of a type

Geobits

@Downgoat Depends. I don't think (Integer)5.4 works that way.

Nathan Merrill

03:29

@ASCII-only Integer :)

if you're just changing the type signature, then that's the fault of the type system

ASCII-only

There's also boxing/unboxing

i.e. (Integer) 1 and (int) new Integer(1)

Nathan Merrill

if you're actually changing the data (real casting), then it makes sense as a constructor

Downgoat

@Geobits I'll take your word for it. You're the Java expert :P

ASCII-only

@Downgoat ^^^^

Geobits

@NathanMerrill I dunno. I commonly use something like findView(myViewId) which returns me a View. Then I'll need to cast it to use subclass-specific methods. I'm not sure it's a fault to make me cast it in this case.

Nathan Merrill

03:34

...which is why I like dependent types. Instead of doing "isClass", you do "does it support X", and then you're able to call those methods

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Yeah

But no point having interfaces for every single class though

Plus it's a lot better if you cast it only once

Nathan Merrill

no, you don't want to cast it to a class

because then you lose any duck typing

feersum

That's great as long as you never have to interface with any code written by someone else.

Nathan Merrill

...what do you mean?

feersum

Like Geobits' example. Some 3rd-party code returns a View but you want to use the NathanView-specific methods.

ETHproductions

03:40

Off-topic: could this question be considered a duplicate of this one?

The only difference is that the latter requires a separator, while the former requires no separator.

Downgoat

@ETHproductions yes, IMO it's a trivial difference

Nathan Merrill

you do if (view has nathan properties), then, inside the if statement, you already know you can call NathanView-specific methods

Geobits

@ETHproductions I looked for a dupe so hard for that, only to end up answering it when I couldn't find one :/

@NathanMerrill Sure, but I may want to use those methods in several places, and checking for methods every time seems quite cumbersome.

Nathan Merrill

checking to see if an object matches an interface is a much better idea than checking to see if its a particular class

ETHproductions

@Geobits I only found that because A) I remembered a challenge where I had a JS answer extremely similar to the JS answer to the new question, and B) for some reason, I remembered it was by Adám.

Geobits

03:43

@ETHproductions I "remembered" it too, but then I decided I must be crazy.

feersum

@NathanMerrill The idea is that View is a class defined by another person, so you can't add isNathan() to it.

Nathan Merrill

so, then a constructor sounds in order :)

Geobits

Or a simple cast :P

Nathan Merrill

because calling isNathan() on the original object doesn't make much sense

feersum

A constructor??

Nathan Merrill

03:44

constructor NathanView(View)

aka, a "cast"

ETHproductions

It's also very related to one of my own challenges, though probably not a duplicate.

Geobits

Ok, but what if NathanView is actually a SquareView, which is also a ShapedView and a View? A constructor for each?

Nathan Merrill

Nah, you just take a generic View, and it can accept any view

Geobits

Nah, just take a generic Object, and it can accept anything at all ;)

Nathan Merrill

then let it error when I pass it an Integer?

that defeats the point of type checking

Geobits

03:47

Was a joke?

feersum

So instead of casting the View (which you know is a NathanView) to a NathanView, you're going to make one with a copy constructor (which will have to internally cast anyway)?

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits ah, my bad

@feersum oh, if its really a NathanView, then just check for the interface, no constructor needed

feersum

How are you going to do that?

Nathan Merrill

if (obj implements Nathan)

Geobits

But I'm going to work with this NathanView a lot, and I don't want an if before every single method call.

Nathan Merrill

03:50

right, so you would store it as a Nathan

feersum

And if it does, you're going to have to cast it.

ASCII-only

@Geobits Does that actually work at all without casting though

@NathanMerrill uh what

Geobits

@NathanMerrill So you'd cast it?

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill it's instanceof

Nathan Merrill

...that's not a cast! I'm not saying "change it to this type". The instant I make the if statement, it already knows the type

Geobits

03:51

To be clear, I'm not talking about using instanceof at all. I'm talking about casting something where I already know the subclass.

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill ?

Geobits

@NathanMerrill But how are you "storing it as a Nathan" without it being cast to a Nathan?

Nathan Merrill

if you already know the subclass, then I'd argue that you need to add additional type definitions to the 3rd party methods

Geobits

@NathanMerrill That's quite hard to do with a finalized API.

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits because "Nathan" is just a compile-time constrant.

ASCII-only

03:53

@NathanMerrill it already knows the type?

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits we've already got some languages that can add methods to a class. Why indicate that it already follows my user-defined typing constraints

ASCII-only

Also what do you do if it's both Nathan and Square

Nathan Merrill

add methods to a 3rd party class

ASCII-only

@NathanMerrill Some != all

Geobits

Well, either I'm thoroughly confused, or we're talking about different things now.

ASCII-only

03:54

Others consider it terrible enough conventions that it's not implemented

Nathan Merrill

@ASCII-only I've been talking about the ideal typing language

ASCII-only

ideal typing?

feersum

What. I thought we were talking about Java. No wonder there's such confusion.

Geobits

So you're saying that for every subclass of View, I need to add a new type definition to every 3rd-party method that returns View?

Nathan Merrill

26 mins ago, by Nathan Merrill

if you're just changing the type signature, then that's the fault of the type system

ASCII-only

03:56

@feersum Me too

Geobits

@Geobits That would make me sick.

Nathan Merrill

lets go with a more concrete example

lets say I've got an "EventManager" class

Geobits

View is a really concrete example to me, since I've been working with Android lately :P

ASCII-only

Also IMO there is no 'ideal' system, different people prefer different things

Nathan Merrill

this event manager takes objects of type "Foo" that will be spit out when the events are fired

however, I happen to know that if I pass in "FooBar" to the constructor, it'll spit out "FooBar" as well (even though the type signature only indicates "Foo")

therefore, in my mind, it makes sense that I'd be able to add additional type constraints to the actual functions (even though I didn't write them)

don't ask me what the syntax for that would look like

Geobits

04:00

Oh sure, that would be great if it would track the actual subclass and return it every time. I'm talking about something that would spit back Foos no matter if you give it a FooBar or a FooBaz.

Nathan Merrill

(sure this could all be solved if the 3rd party used generics, but the problem was that they didn't)

feersum

Generics are just a compiler-level syntactic sugar for casting anyway :)

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits and if you know that the Foos it spits back are actually all FooFoos, then simply add that to the type signature

Downgoat

I found a fellow goat on ask ubuntu :D

chat.stackexchange.com/users/68017/rpi-awesomeness

Nathan Merrill

and casting (at least the kind that doesn't change data) is also at the compiler level as well :)

feersum

04:02

So it actually would be feasible to write your own custom Java compiler than allowed you to add generics to 3rd-party libraries.

Geobits

@NathanMerrill The type signature of what? EventManager? That's well and good, but what about the other 950 methods/classes in the API that spit out Foos? I don't want to add something for all of them.

Nathan Merrill

yep

@Geobits well, you'll either do it everywhere you call the method, or you'll do it on all of the methods you call. I'd like to think that the latter has fewer than the former

Geobits

Eh, seems like it would get pretty tedious when I have several subclasses to work with.

ASCII-only

All of the methods = such a pain

Nathan Merrill

dunno, but I need to get to bed. I have enjoyed talking with you all

Geobits

04:05

Time to cast off the waking world?

Downgoat

05:06

anyone here know how to parser? my recursive decent parser is borked >_>

it's pretty simple but for some reason right-recursion doesn't merge properly

gtg sleep bai

TheBitByte

05:31

Hello guys!

Does anybody remember/know what are the absolute minimum requirements for a language to be turing complete?

I'm thinking of making a challenge based on this.

Anonymous

Does anyone have a recommendation for a good C++ IDE?

TheBitByte

@Mego No idea, but good old Notepad++ works.

DJMcMayhem

@Mego What platform?

That'll probably be your biggest factor

I'm happy with visual studio.

TheBitByte

@DJMcMayhem Visual studio code is cool.

At least it's open source.

Unlike the actual Visual Studio IDE, which does not seem to be open source. It's not that open source is a major feature I want, but it's a plus.

ASCII-only

@TheBitByte VS is more powerful

DJMcMayhem

05:45

@TheBitByte ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That's what i use

I dislike the licensing though

TheBitByte

@ASCII-only Yeah. They open sourced powershell. Can't wait until they open source Windows itself, if at all! :D

ASCII-only

@TheBitByte That's not gonna be very soon

I'd guess at least 3 years?

TheBitByte

@ASCII-only One can dream.

DJMcMayhem

@ASCII-only Ha! Try 300

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem Win10. VS isn't an option (unless there's some simple way to use something other than MSVC for the compiler that I'm missing)

TheBitByte

05:46

ReactOS is a thing, you know.

ASCII-only

@TheBitByte ?

TheBitByte

@ASCII-only If I remember correctly, ReactOS is like Wine, except ReactOS actually doesn't do the processing/whatever that Wine has to do, it natively runs stuff. It's in beta/alpha right now, though.

DJMcMayhem

@Mego Which compiler do you need?

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem GCC. Clang is a plus.

DJMcMayhem

It doesn't look like there's a lot.

3

Q: Free C/C++ IDE for Windows 7 that works with GCC

I've learned C and C++ in Borland's Turbo C++ IDE, the 16-Bit version with that old blue screen background, in which I started off building console programs for Windows. Now that Windows Vista and 7 doesn't support that IDE to be run in full-screen mode, I'm looking for such similar IDE (not nece...

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Anonymous

06:46

Doing some C++ development reminds me of how icky raw pointers are

mınxomaτ

@Mego The new DevCPP somes with x86 and IA64 version of TDM-GCC and a very minimalistic IDE.

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ I'll have to try it out soon. Right now, I'm using good old Code::Blocks

betseg

07:17

Ronming

betseg

07:57

Noone cared ;_;

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