The Nineteenth Byte

16:00

I just realized: if I want to write a virus and don't know how, I could 1) go to StackOverflow, ask how. Get hate from everyone and probably the question will be closed. Or 2) Go to code golf, ask others how they'd do it. Get a handful of creative answers to select from, and the question is so popular it gets on the network-wide "hot" list. Mua ha ha ha ha. — rumtscho Feb 22 '14 at 15:31

About the DDoS talks

Leaky Nun

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Now malicious codes are off-topic

Releasing Helium Nuclei

@LeakyNun we can still DDoS OEIS, no?

Leaky Nun

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei you aren't going to DDoS OEIS by normal questions

It isn't like 1000 people are sending a request at the same time

trichoplax

@ReleasingHeliumNuclei We also don't really want to create ill will with one of our biggest sources of challenge ideas... ;)

@flawr Can't tell if that's a joke...

Nathan Merrill

it wasn't labelled

trichoplax

16:05

(neither was mine...)

Nathan Merrill

so clearly, you weren't joking :P

TùxCräftîñg

function(s) {
    return function(n) {
        return (((require)("http")).get)((((("http://oeis.org/").op_add(s)).op_add("/b")).op_add(((s).slice)(1))).op_add(".txt"))(function(r) {
            return ((console).log)(r);
        });
    }
};

i am getting SyntaxError: Unexpected token (

trichoplax

Or I was making a point about what would happen if I took flawr's labelling advice...

TùxCräftîñg

oh nvm

oh no nvm it still fail

Nathan Merrill

@TùxCräftîñg is this is BF?

in*

because that'd explain why it doesn't work

TùxCräftîñg

16:07

it's a js code generated from Neoscript

trichoplax

You forgot to label...

Leaky Nun

Guys

"the empty string" or "an empty string"?

Rainbolt

Both are correct depending on context

Leaky Nun

but there's only one empty string

in implementation?

that's what I heard happens in Java

or C

Nathan Merrill

Is "hello" and "hello" equal?

Rainbolt

16:14

"" is an empty string. Is the previous sentence grammatically or logically incorrect?

Leaky Nun

@NathanMerrill in Java they are equal

@Rainbolt Is the sentence factually correct?

Rainbolt

That's what I just asked...

Nathan Merrill

@LeakyNun how are you testing? "hello"=="hello" doesn't always return true

T. Lukin

@NathanMerrill You can't compare strings using "==" in java, iirc

Nathan Merrill

yeah you can. you shouldn't though

Leaky Nun

16:16

@NathanMerrill Nope

@T.Lukin Nope

Luis Mendo

@flawr Well, that can I say. It's a nice city, although you may not like its extreme, dry weather @Maltysen

Nathan Merrill

@LeakyNun new String("hello") == "hello"

Leaky Nun

@NathanMerrill then you are not comparing "hello" and "hello"

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@ASCII-only In case you're interested, I got it to work in Chrome now.

Leaky Nun

which is what you were asking

Nathan Merrill

16:17

@LeakyNun yeah you are. The only reason "hello" == "hello" is because of string interning, which isn't guaranteed

Leaky Nun

@NathanMerrill It is guaranteed, unless you twirk it around like new String("hello")

Nathan Merrill

new String("hello") is just a way of enforcing that it doesn't happen

Leaky Nun

"hello"=="hello" is always true

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Is this JS?

Leaky Nun

No, Java is not Javascript

VTCAKAVSMoACE

16:19

I didn't see what language you were talking about. :P

In that case, "hello" == "hello", but new String("hello") != "hello" because, since Strings are immutable, the JVM reuses existing strings unless explicitly defined otherwise.

Leaky Nun

The "hello"s in new String("hello") != "hello" are still equal

Business Cat

But using new String is one of the worst things ever

Leaky Nun

just that by passing it in the constructor, you made a new object

which made them not equal

VTCAKAVSMoACE

That's correct.

TùxCräftîñg

using java is the worst thing ever

VTCAKAVSMoACE

16:21

Because they're two different objects.

Business Cat

I'd rather use Java than C

TùxCräftîñg

ಠ_ಠ

VTCAKAVSMoACE

If you wanna see what I mean with the storing of strings upon declaration through "", use javap -pc <filename>.class to decode the bytecode.

Nathan Merrill

@LeakyNun I looked it up, you are right that String interning is guaranteed

Business Cat

Java is one of the languages I use most often

Leaky Nun

16:23

@NathanMerrill I've learnt Java for 10 years, it's my first language

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@BusinessCat Same.

Maltysen

@Poke they help other people find devs, but they used their own product themselves and found me and want to hire me.

Leaky Nun

@BusinessCat I usually use Pyth or Retina now since they're so terse

Maltysen

Here is the email:

TùxCräftîñg

i use Javascript or Python for most of my projects, and C for 'performance critical' projects

Maltysen

16:24

Hi Maltysen,

I am a Developer Relations Engineer at source{d}, we are working on improving developer recruitment. We have analyzed your open source contributions on Github and we think that you could be a good fit for the position as Software Engineer for our Tools team at source{d} (http://sourced.tech/).

source{d} is a recruitment product built by developers for developers. We analyze over 1.2B code contributions in the open source community to match developers with the best opportunities and contact them only with relevant offers.

Nathan Merrill

@LeakyNun mine as well...and I knew it would happen, but I didn't know it was guaranteed

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen wot

Business Cat

I like golfing in JS, but I'm not that good at it

Nathan Merrill

actually,now that I think about it, TI Basic was my first language

TùxCräftîñg

my first 'language' was minecraft commands

T. Lukin

16:26

Java is a good language in general, it just sucks for golfing

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@TùxCräftîñg Actually, this is true for me as well, I just didn't count it, lol.

TùxCräftîñg

only problem: i started minecraft in 1.4 ;_;

Nathan Merrill

what language has the biggest "potential" for golfing (size of typical program/size of golfed program)?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

The first language I ever used was Batch.

Nathan Merrill

I'm thinking perl

VTCAKAVSMoACE

16:27

But it was terrible and I decided against learning it further.

Leaky Nun

Advertisement: a language that is completely different from the mainstream languages; a language that forces you to adopt a different mindset:

Brachylog

Discussions about the Brachylog language. github.com/JCumin/Br...

T. Lukin

@NathanMerrill It depends on what you mean by "typical" program

TùxCräftîñg

my first real programming language was Java

and after HTML/CSS

Business Cat

I think Perl too. I've seen Perl be competitive with golfing langs

Nathan Merrill

@T.Lukin you're right, but "typical" is hard to define

T. Lukin

16:29

Id probably say something in the realm of perl or python, something less verbose than the C or Java types

TùxCräftîñg

sometimes Javascript is pretty good at golfing too

Downgoat

question: how to do docs where i have seperate sqrt cbrt and root operators? Should I put root on one page and make sqrt, cbrt on subpages of root, or put them all together on one page?

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat depends on how you treat other arithmetic operators

Downgoat

@LeakyNun Right now each operator has it's one page

Business Cat

I would say same page

Or at least link between them since they're related

T. Lukin

16:32

Yeah, I'd say make them subpages of root

Leaky Nun

@Downgoat What good is sqrt if I have **.5?

Downgoat

how to make them same page though?

@LeakyNun as said on arithematic page: "to make mathematics more idomatic"

Geobits

Huh. Pretty sure someone's trying to log in as me on PSN. Three "link to change your password" emails in the last half hour.

Leaky Nun

I see

Business Cat

Or the system itself has gained intelligence and is trying to log in

Downgoat

16:33

@Geobits shit you're onto— :|

@BusinessCat an AI trying to hack an AI? ._.

Geobits

As long as I don't also get a "somebody accessed your email from an unusual spot" email, I think I'm okay ;)

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Geobits Unless they already deleted it.

Geobits

I'm not going to let it bother me though. Today's Minibits-getting day.

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I get notifications on my phone for that too.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Geobits oic

quartata

@NathanMerrill Definitely Perl

Python sometimes. I've seen some interesting tricks

T. Lukin

16:41

Yeah. Heavily depends on the challenge though

quartata

> Iterator<Map.Entry<Integer, RenderScript>>

gotta love java sometimes

CMC: show a snippet of Java code you've written with more than three nested generics

Leaky Nun

CMC: Given positive integer n, return/print all the square numbers not greater than n^2 concatenated in order.

Testcase: 6 -> 149162536

Downgoat

hm... what happens when you do git commit -F /dev/urandom

quartata

@Downgoat Hangs. No eof

Leaky Nun

Example implementation: Brachylog, 7 bytes: yb:^ac.

(Yes, this is obviously optimized for Brachylog)

Downgoat

16:48

so do I do git commit -m $(head /dev/urandom)?

yup that works :D

quartata

@LeakyNun FN>n?

Leaky Nun

@quartata ?

quartata

05ab1e.tryitonline.net/#code=Rk4-bj8&input=Ng&debug=on

Leaky Nun

Nice

quartata

Unfornately ƒ ranges from 0 to a + 1 otherwise it could be four: ƒNn?

Adnan

16:51

@quartata Very nice :)

You can also do it in 3: 05ab1e.tryitonline.net/#code=TG5K&input=Ng

quartata

What?

Adnan

?

Leaky Nun

@Adnan Automatic vectorization ?????

quartata

I didn't know anything in 05AB1E vectorized

Adnan

Vectorization?

My English isn't that good, so I don't know what that means

quartata

16:53

Automatically maps over an array

Adnan

Oh, yeah

quartata

Is that new?

Adnan

Most of the commands do

quartata

Huh.

Downgoat

9

Adnan

16:54

Nope, it's pretty old now

Hahahaha

T. Lukin

What is CMC?

quartata

Chat mini challenge

TùxCräftîñg

Chat Mini Challenge

ninja'd because poor connection :/

T. Lukin

Ah. Thanks

quartata

Three dashes

Leaky Nun

16:56

Help Jellyfish is stupid

where's to_string

@Zgarb

quartata

@LeakyNun Jellyfish don't have brains

Leaky Nun

Stuck here

Business Cat

Is Jellyfish a combination of Jelly and ><>?

mınxomaτ

Leaky Nun

@BusinessCat Yes

quartata

16:58

@LeakyNun /?

Downgoat

@mınxomaτ ._________.

Leaky Nun

@quartata how to use?

Business Cat

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/43607/farm-therapy

What

quartata

@LeakyNun no idea

T. Lukin

@LeakyNun Is there no docs for Jellyfish?

Leaky Nun

17:02

@T.Lukin github.com/iatorm/jellyfish/blob/master/doc.md

github.com/iatorm/jellyfish/blob/master/stdlib.md

The second one is still developing

but will be much richer in content

TùxCräftîñg

nvm it's a chatroom

anyway wat

PhiNotPi

... I found an extremely bizarre bug in one of my java programs... I don't understand it.

Leaky Nun

@PhiNotPi tell us

TùxCräftîñg

i will give you a advice: dont use java

Leaky Nun

@TùxCräftîñg what did java do to you

TùxCräftîñg

17:06

java is slow

and buggy

and slow

and buggy

PhiNotPi

So I have a program that outputs a bunch of debug data to STDOUT, but when I remove those debug print commands, the other output changes.

output with debug commands:

Leaky Nun

@PhiNotPi Do you have assignments in the debug prints?

Do you mind sharing the whole program?

PhiNotPi

@LeakyNun no

@LeakyNun sure.... give me a sec

quartata

@PhiNotPi Any threads?

Poke

@Maltysen i don't think i have a good idea of an ideal salary in Madrid but that seems pretty low for a software engineer in the us?

PhiNotPi

17:09

@quartata no

Zgarb

@LeakyNun There's no to_string yet. :(

PhiNotPi

source code: github.com/PhiNotPi/CircuitSim the debug commands are in the Circuit.java labeled "HERE" and "AND HERE"

Rainbolt

I am surprised to find out that Java has no preprocessor directives like #IFDEBUG

Leaky Nun

@Rainbolt For the record Java is not C

quartata

Why is that a surprise?

Leaky Nun

17:13

@PhiNotPi and the output?

Rainbolt

Sorry, I meant NetBeans, not Java.

Poke

@PhiNotPi do you also have example input/output

PhiNotPi

Give me a sec....

Rainbolt

I thought NetBeans was more robust than that

quartata

It has little things to auto-include logging

PhiNotPi

17:14

github.com/PhiNotPi/CircuitSim/tree/master added two files for example output

System.out.println("g " + r + " " + c + " " + side + " " + val);
  or
System.out.println("s " + r + " " + c + " " + side + " " + val);

^ remove either of those lines and the other output changes

Geobits

That's just odd.

Rainbolt

Geobits has identified the root cause. It's just odd.

Geobits

Cookies for me?

Leaky Nun

@PhiNotPi what exactly are the changed outputs?

PhiNotPi

I guess I'll just chalk this up to an unknowable java bug and rewrite some code to hope it disappears.

quartata

17:18

@PhiNotPi It's not. Gimme a second

PhiNotPi

@LeakyNun in the two example outputs, the non-numerical lines change. (such as ----X---- to ---->----)

quartata

What happens when you remove the one on line 75 but not the other one?

PhiNotPi

Still incorrect output.

quartata

OK I've got nothing then

Rainbolt

@PhiNotPi When I remove the two lines commented with "HERE" and "AND HERE", the output is:

->-----<-

---------

---------

PhiNotPi

17:24

that's different than what I'm getting. :/

there's some weird timing bug... but there shouldn't be any threading anywhere in the program

T. Lukin

If any of you are just sitting back and enjoying watching this inexplicable bug play out, you might enjoy all the stories here

Rainbolt

PhiNotPi

or maybe I'm doing something like editing something while I iterate over it... like maybe I should use replace some "for(...:...)" loops withe "for(...;...;...)" loop.

Poke

It's something with timing

If I run it many times

I get different output

Rainbolt

Poke

17:26

regardless of the debug statements

Rainbolt

First image is with the lines commented out. Second image is the original.

Leaky Nun

Advertisement: the only uncracked cops thread:

2

A: Can you outgolf me? (Cops section)

M, 9 bytes, score 0.6667 (6 / 9) r©0+’Ac®Ḅ A tad cheaty since M and Jelly are quite similar, but allowed by the rules. @miles' crack to my Jelly answer doesn't work in M; it lacks the œċ atom. This calculates sequence A119259. Try it online!

Fatalize

you're the Jelly expert

so your job

Business Cat

Obvious belongs to Dennis

Leaky Nun

@Fatalize if I'm at level 1 Dennis is at level 10

Fatalize

17:30

I'm at level -1024

Business Cat

I'm at level WTF

zyabin101

@Fatalize Error while trying to assign signed -1024 to unsigned int.

@BusinessCat WTF is a string not a number.

Geobits

WTF says it's not a number?

trichoplax

@T.Lukin I like the last sentence of that first story

T. Lukin

@trichoplax Haha yeah. I've been reading a couple a day, always makes you a little more thankful that your crash was just caused by a forgotten semicolon

Sherlock9

17:33

@T.Lukin There is a bug here where you message is short enough to fit on one line, but long enough that here gets covered by the flag, star, reply to symbols. In other words, I cannot click that link

Business Cat

WTF is 010101110101010001000110 which is 5723206

Totally a number

trichoplax

@T.Lukin Yes it's nice living in a world where I can always assume a bug in my code is my own fault

Poke

@PhiNotPi i don't really know what your code does but public class Container extends Circuit seems weird

(the fact that your container extends circuit, that is)

trichoplax

@Sherlock9 How ironic... Have you tried zooming in or out slightly?

quartata

@Geobits Do you still have that plain text dump of the 19B's transcript?

T. Lukin

17:35

@Sherlock9 Link again: here

zyabin101

@BusinessCat In a base-34 world.

Geobits

@quartata Yeah, lemme find it

Sherlock9

@trichoplax I just opened the permalink to get it in the transcript

@T.Lukin Thank you very much

Business Cat

WTF is actually a base-64 number

quartata

Does Python have something like Perl's Tie::File?

Poke

17:36

@PhiNotPi I'm only noticing the issue when you have multiple wires

Nathan Merrill

somebody should make a browser that supports a different <script> type than JS

Geobits

@quartata This one is probably the most useful. It's from March, but I don't have anything newer atm.

zyabin101

@BusinessCat Ikr, 34 is the minimal base where that number works.

quartata

@Geobits That's perfect

All the messages past March of this year have too many dank memes for my liking. I want my chatbot to be quality

Geobits

Ah yes, nothing like a quality chatbot.

quartata

17:38

snickers

Geobits

baby ruth

quartata

3 Musketeers is objectively the best

Geobits

Clearly. Almond Joy is a close runner up though.

zyabin101

Marky was an objectively bad quality chatbot, because he hated some people.

Geobits

He only hated people who pinged me multiple times for no good reason about him.

quartata

17:40

@Geobits Yeah, not bad. Mounds is nice too

ohhh boy this text file is 45 megs nice

I hope you aren't giving me any viruses because it exceeds the size Google Drive can scan for ;P

Geobits

IIRC it's around 330k messages. Might be thinking of a different one.

The transcript itself is a virus, you didn't know? Not my doing.

El'endia Starman

I think the TNBDE database is almost at 900k rows.

quartata

7 mins ago, by quartata

Does Python have something like Perl's Tie::File?

El'endia Starman

@quartata I don't know what that is.

quartata

Tie::File basically ties a file to a lazy list. tie @list, Tie::File, "filename"; print $list[17] gets line 18 without loading the whole file into memory

El'endia Starman

17:45

@quartata I don't think Python has that built-in.

But lemme look around in the docs a bit.

T. Lukin

@quartata Here's some good ansers

El'endia Starman

@quartata This might do.

quartata

Ah, that looks about right

Poke

@PhiNotPi you're storing your wires in a HashSet which may not have guaranteed order. This might affect things when you iterate over it?

trichoplax

@quartata Another possibility (haven't tested it)

Geobits

17:47

I thought of that, but it seems like a hash set would still have the same order between runs.

Adnan

Is there a way to unapprove an edit?

El'endia Starman

@Adnan No, though you can rollback edits.

Adnan

Oh okay

The actual editing hasn't been done yet

Dennis

158

A: Reject an already-approved suggested edit when rolling it back

You make a very good point about edits getting not only rampantly suggested, but also rampantly approved but I think that your idea of Mark[ing] the edit as rejected [...] Revok[ing] the +2 rep bonus [...] doesn't address the real problem which is not the low reputation use...

Poke

@PhiNotPi yeah if I use a LinkedHashSet instead I get consistent output

see docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/HashSet.html

Adnan

17:50

@Dennis Hahaha

Dennis

I should probably add a GIF somewhere to make my point.

Adnan

I'm reading the last two lines of that answer over and over, but somehow I can't understand what it means

wtf

Dennis

Which answer?

Adnan

Yours

Dennis

If you approve a suggested edit that is rolled back afterwards, you get a notification in your inbox. If that happens to many times, you cannot approve or reject edits for, say, a week.

PhiNotPi

17:55

I figured out the bug... it turns out that it was due to the absence of signal overwriting the presence of a signal, so the order in which the wire components were processed caused a difference in result.

so... something rather unmystical

Adnan

Ohh, that makes sense

I also already partially rolled back my approval

codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/44680/revisions

zyabin101

@Peanut You were the one who made the open-ended tag. Do we need the tag, and why exactly?

Sherlock9

@T.Lukin "We can't send mail more than 500 miles" XD

Brachylog

Transcript for