The Nineteenth Byte

Q: Sort the months of the year

Without intending to be offensive, turing completeness does not respond to anyone's opinion. — trisweb Sep 5 '14 at 14:08

I love how the (HTML/)CSS TC discussion has been going on for so long.

@akond The axe requires the operator to evaluate the current state, choose the next state, and manipulate the axe. The axe evaluates nothing. CSS requires a pump, but the pump performs no evaluation. Computers require electricity, but the electricity performs no evaluation. Every other language requires an energy source that doesn't provide evaluation, merely motive power. If your definition of "Turing Machine" includes "Requires no power, operates without external motive" then there is no machine that fits your definition. Thus I still believe this answer to be reasonably true. — Adam Davis Oct 6 '15 at 11:41

Bald Bantha

this is relavent

and interesting

New Main Posts

12:37 AM

1

Write a function or program that takes string inputs, fully-spelled, English month names in title case: January, February, March, etc. (null/CR/LF terminated OK, delimited with some non-alpha character if you so choose) and either compares two inputs, returning a Truthy value if the second inpu...

@Adnan Not sure. Does 05AB1E have bitwise AND?

Adnan

Yes, it's &.

Oh, I see your Python answer

That's clever

0

A: Automate the OEIS

Julia, 124 bytes Pkg.add("Requests") using Requests print(match(Regex("$(ARGS[2]) (.*)"),readall(get("http://oeis.org/b$(ARGS[1]).txt")))[1]) Call from the command line with something like julia x.jl 172141 7.

Halp golfing plz

@MamaFunRoll you're gonna need @AlexA. for that

maybe @Dennis can help?

12:49 AM

@MamaFunRoll A function should be shorter. Also, the input is Axxxxxx, not xxxxxx.

And Pkg.add shouldn't be required once the package is installed.

i hate it when I write code the first time and it works... if that happens i don't know where the bug is :/

cheddar> (@.lower)('HELLO')
"hello"

@Downgoat You just can't be satisfied, can you?

\o/ \o/ \o/ \o /o\ /o \/o \/ o\/ o\/ o\/o\/o\/o

@T.Lukin I'll be satisfied once I eat food. For dinner there was gonna be Cheddar cheese but that's taking forever to make...

@Dennis wait do I have to make it self-invoking?

owait nvm

Updated 150 packages on my ubuntu server, no downtime. That's a first.

Usually that only happens on the archlinux servers.

12:59 AM

@Downgoat \o/

develop updated yet?

yeah, but I might change the syntax to not require parenthesis

for what?

e.g. foo.map((@.lower)) -> foo.map(@.lower) so the literal is just @.lower rather than (@.lower)

Linux security backfires: Flaw lets hackers inject malware into downloads, disrupt Tor users, etc

@Downgoat while you're at it you could do the same with functionized ops

1:02 AM

._.

no not really :/

i guess i could try

hm that would be buggy

ill try

@Downgoat Have you ever considered adding a golfing package that repackages a large number of built-ins with one-character names? Perhaps call it g for golf

ಠ_ಠ

^

there's no point to that. It wouldn't win anything, just be more unreadable

It'd at least beat Python for sure

You could also call it o for obfuscation

oh please, I could obfuscate without a library

1:06 AM

^

have you seen me obfuscate before ? :P

@StevenH. you should see conor's Hello World (wait was it hellow orld)

I... I haven't, actually. Link?

welp, thx to you @Dennis for helping me golf my OEIS answer down to 88 bytes

// call with node --use_strict hello_world.js
// logs "Hello, World!" to the console
let A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,O,P,R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p,q,r,s,t,u,x,y,z;O=(s,e)=>[...s].map(k=>e[k])[V="join"]``;p=Symbol`[:`;g=(e,r)=>e[r];s=(c,a,b)=>a[b](c);k=(f,g,h)=>a=>p===f?g(h(a)):g(f(a),h(a));a=(x,y)=>!y?+x:x+y;A=(x,y,z)=>a(x,a(y,z));r=(a,b)=>A(a,b,a);c=(f,a)=>f(a);D=a=>()=>a;S=f=>f(f);e=k=>!!k;W=72697618120946;F=x=>k(p,e,d)(x[k(p,a,d)(d(1337+[]+7099).replace(/((...).(.))/,"$2")).toString(r(2,[]))]);G=eval(s(32,559689045,T="toString"));q=x=>x!==G.Q;l=(f,n)=>function(){ret…

1:07 AM

Holy

^

I think I also did "404 in 404 bytes"

Jul 20 at 3:03, by Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

E=(g,a,p)=>(n)=>(a=g(),p=(n)=>(n?p(n-1,a.next()):a.next().value),p(n));F=(n,a)=>{a=[];for(let i=1;i<=Math.sqrt(n);i++){if(n%i==0){a.push(i)}}return a.map(e=>[e,n/e])};P=(n)=>/^(?!(..+)\1+$)../.test(([[],[]]+[]).repeat(n));c=E(function*(){let c=9;while(true){if(F(c).some(e=>{f=(a,b,c)=>(c=Math.sqrt(b),(c==(c|0))&&P(a)&&P(c)&&c!==a);return f(e[0],e[1])||f(e[1],e[0])}))yield c;c++;}});console.log(c(48))

Christ

yup, 404 in 404 bytes

obfuscation is an art, and that one is meh

I'll take requests because it's summer and I can

heyyy I should try doing one in cheddar

1:11 AM

Do you know malbolge?

somewhat. not my best language

How's your Python obfuscation?

did someone say obfuscation?

I loathe python. Never touch it if I have a choice.

@MamaFunRoll Steven H, initially

pastebin.com/myhfK802

1:12 AM

Fair enough. Have you tried LISP obfuscation?

A top JS obfuscator loathes python. Curious.

don't know lisp well enough, though most lisp programs look obfuscated inherently

@NathanMerrill how so?

it implies that python resists obfuscation, which to me, sounds like a good language

lol. nice wording.

(not saying it actually does, as python has eval())

1:14 AM

The stupid whitespace makes everything look nice T-T

I also don't like malbolge, which makes it a good language, eh?

Unfortunately, Python does not resist obfuscation very well at all, see Hello World

ah, yes, that is an obfuscation gem

@ConorO'Brien Well, it's one of the only languages for ternary virtual machines, so by definition it is also one of the best

What I'm saying is that any language <X> I don't like trivially becomes good

which is rotten logic

1:17 AM

But you like Javascript...

which means nothing

yeah, I should have put a :P to indicate I was joking

To be fair, being "good" is similarly subjective to being liked, so in the end it really doesn't mean anything

@NathanMerrill oh lol

perhaps that wasn't in the best taste.

That's one way to look at it....

@ConorO'Brien I had a good chuckle :)

1:18 AM

@mınxomaτ I wonder whose genius idea it was to limit the number of challenge ACKs.

here's the thing, if you simply look at the world as a huge VR experience, then everything subjective no longer is subjective

what if you're the one in the VR, and the rest of us are real

because if its "good" to you, then its good (because nobody else really exists)

right, but since I'm the real one, its obviously my opinion that matters :P

so, I'm debating putting a bunch of my static variables in a config file

which I hate, because it makes my controller feel big and bloated

Static meaning unchanging or shared between class instances?

unchanging.

stuff like "Where's the folder that we look for Java submissions"

1:23 AM

What are you building?

which, sounds like a really good config item

A KoTH controller to rule them all :)

basically, I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for people to build KoTHs

And all those who create KoTHs after will thank you

the KoTHs will hopefully be better as well. Typically KoTHs run off of a "Run X games, average the scores". But I've come up with a pretty flexible system that allows a variety of scoring methods, like an ELO system, and Maximized Affirmed Majorities

and one of the cool things about ELO is that it means that your games aren't filled with dumb players, and the competition will be more about outsmarting the best players vs outsmarting the most dumb players

How long does it take updated profile info to show up after its been changed?

I see "I'm just here for the badge.."

1:32 AM

Speaking of KoTHs, I don't think we ever got closure on It's Life, Jim. Shame, too, given the hype it'd built up over the years it spent in the sandbox.

Theo

All good

C++ code reuse example:

#define main foo
#include "../program.cpp"
#undef main
int main() {
    ...
}

I know very little about C++, how does that work?

It's not funny if I have to explain it.

What does it do, then?

shrug

Releasing Helium Nuclei

1:36 AM

@feersum wow it's the first time i saw such a thing, and im like "how i didn't think of this before"

İts 4:40 am here, do you think i should sleep or nah?

yes

If you have work in the morning, then don't sleep. Otherwise, sleep.

Releasing Helium Nuclei

I'm sleeping then

1:55 AM

Maybe you should keep FEWER backups; it sounds like throwing away everything you've done and starting from scratch might not be the worst idea.

Doorknob

What's a sane subset of Unicode to restrict usernames to? I want to allow, say, Korean usernames, but I also don't want non-breaking spaces or such.

Theo

@ConorO'Brien One of my favorite comics as of recent

@Doorknob ALL OF THEM.

Could pick only certain planes

lemme see

Sir Cumference

Howdy

2:02 AM

"Sane" and "Unicode" don't belong in the same sentence.

@Doorknob Basic Multilingual Plane without the symbols section?

New Main Posts

0

Q: Concise Grading

Write a program or a function in your favorite programming language that will take as input a number n (integer or non-integer) between 0 and 100 inclusive, and output the corresponding grade as outlined below: If 0 < n <= 40, then output E. If 40 < n <= 55, then output D. If 55 < n <= 65, then...

code-golf

@Doorknob There has to be some giant RegEx some sysadmin created for filtering all "bad" chars :D

@El'endiaStarman This comment explains it fairly well:

> No way in hell would I implement the workaround. On a system with a high volume TCP load, I speculate that essentially removing rate limiting would open one up to stack saturation / buffer overflows with intentionally sent malicious packets. Or maybe that's the intention of this workaround that reads like a nation state armchair exploitation.

Imagine an upstream network that allows IP spoofing. Add some non-BCP OpenDNS resolvers into the mix and you got an easy 500 Gbps DDoS attack. Oh wait ... that already happened.

Without a somewhat intelligent rate limit, that problem is amplified.

2:17 AM

@mınxomaτ Oooh, okay, that makes sense.

This seems like a "darned if you do, darned if you don't" problem.

@El'endiaStarman Well, the most pressing problem atm is the OpenDNS exploitation. You can basically take complete ISPs offline if they don't have enough capacity (like e.g. France). I highly recommend to watch the video I've linked above.

So, I guess un-doing the rate limit is a reasonable option atm. But no long term solution.

It only affects 3.6+ right?

Yep

@Doorknob just disallow all whitespace other than tab, space and linefeed?

2:33 AM

night

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

night

It's clear there's no more demand for alphabet challenges - only 39 people answered in the first 15 hours... — trichoplax 11 hours ago

@trichoplax Is this sarcastic or what

@LeakyNun Sarcastic isn't far off. It's very tongue-in-cheek.

@El'endiaStarman I don't understand this sentence

@LeakyNun "Sarcastic" is pretty close. I don't really think it's actually sarcasm, but rather is a statement said in a manner that demonstrates that you clearly don't believe it. trichoplax is clearly contradicting the first half of their statement with the second, which underscores their point that the first half is wrong.

Doorknob

2:47 AM

Verbal irony?

@El'endiaStarman Thanks

Ismael Miguel

Greetings

@Doorknob It's been a while since I thought I knew what irony was. :P

@IsmaelMiguel hi

@El'endiaStarman but the "only" is quite sarcastic

Ismael Miguel

How's it going?

2:51 AM

@LeakyNun I typically think of sarcasm as being mean-spirited in nature, which I don't think trichoplax intends with their statement. Facetious is another word that could fit.

> sarcasm as being mean-spirited in nature [citation needed]

But you're a native so I trust you

Other native English speakers might disagree with me, but in my experience, sarcasm is almost never positive or light-hearted.

@Dennis Jelly bug: dot product æ. on floats

Could you be a tad more specific?

@Dennis jelly.tryitonline.net/…

3:04 AM

@quartata well there's a reason for using async to read a line, how would you like it if your entire server blocked up waiting for you to input a command? it's just that node was designed specifically for servers, so they don't exactly need synchronous everything (although they have synchronous versions of most things), plus, you can just use the readline-sync module

@quartata also once v8 supports async/await node will have the capability for C# style non callback-hell async

@Dennis What is the chaining rule for niladic chains?

Ismael Miguel

Can you help me on something?

@LeakyNun It doesn't like the empty lists. I guess 0 would make sense as output.

@Dennis But this is the error:

  File "/opt/jelly/jelly.py", line 102, in dot_product
    if product.is_integer():
AttributeError: 'int' object has no attribute 'is_integer'

But you're right, the cause is the empty list.

In other news: what good is æ. if I can do PS? (I know, æ. is dyadic)

@LeakyNun Niladic chains set the aegument to the result of first link (if niladic) or 0, then get parsed as a monadic chain.

3:14 AM

@Dennis Then why doesn't this work? (Specifically the ;Œl at the end)

@ASCII-only That's more of a reason to have both not just async. What if I'm not making a massive distributed application in a soft real-time system and I just want to read a line from STDIN

@Downgoat wat cheddar already has ranges i was going to do something using ranges but i forgot what, should probably do that when i get home

Plus there are times when reading synchronously is desirable

@quartata node is not supposed ot be used for non-server applications

but you can find almost everything on npm

@LeakyNun Because your argument is 26.

3:16 AM

also literally everything

@Dennis Oh, so everything after 26 becomes one chain

Very convenient

You better tell that to all the people on SO and NPM. They've been fooled into thinking it's a general purpose framework for years

It just feels like overkill, you know? Not all projects need that level of complexity

wait, what feels like overkill?

@quartata wait, seriously?

And I should not have to use a package to do something that Perl can literally do in 1 byte

@ASCII-only I wouldn't describe Cheddar as a server side webapp

@quartata i guess that's a good point for node to include readline sync by default

3:23 AM

await will help a little. When are the es7 features getting added?

@quartata thats because perl was designed for command line scripts and nodejs was designed for event-based apps (which is why it has its non-blocking I/O). If Perl can do it on byte, great! But node is desgined to be event-based, you can't complain about that. That's like saying why do I need tables to do most stuff in SQL, because SQL was designed around tables. Use spidermonkey if you want easy I/O

when they're being added in v8, since node uses v8

@quartata Cheddar is written in ES6 compliant ECMAScript, not "node". I can use whatever engine I want because of this. Babel compiles that ES6 code to node-specific code because that's what it's se to. I'm using node because it's 100x more popular than everything else.

@Downgoat node buddies ayy

@LeakyNun æ. being dyadic is pretty much the reason. ×S doesn't get parsed as it should be in a monadic chain. Also, if the numbers are complex, there's a difference.

3:34 AM

@Dennis I see, thanks

0

A: Is it a Proth number?

Brachylog, 29 bytes ,2:N^P:K*+?,P>K:2%1<=N<?,N:K= Try it online! Verify all testcases at once. (Slightly modified.) Explanation Brachylog, being a derivative of Prolog, is very good at proving things. Here, we prove these things: ,2:N^P:K*+?,P>K:2%1<=N<?,N:K= 2:N^P ...

Anyway, it should work for empty lists now.

George V. Williams

I want to make a chess esolang, but I'm not sure how the actual instruction set should work. Any suggestions?

Eh, rep cap at 3:30. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my day?

@Dennis jelly.tryitonline.net/…

:/

Does « have parsing precedence?

« is an unused string terminator.

3:43 AM

... ah. Er... no escape chars in strings I'm guessing?

Sadly, no.

When Jelly gets overhauled, I'll probably encode the length of the string instead of using a terminator.

For example, “2 could indicate that a string of length 50 follows.

From memory that's going to make coding a bit more annoying, but... sure, anything for golfability?

I'm planning a human-readable version that is assembled into a binary version, so it will actually be easier to type. I'm getting sick of copy-pasting characters whenever I try to answer a challenge from my phone.

I will also put an end to the torrent of This is x bytes in Unicode. comments. Not that Unicode is an encoding...

@Dennis Nice, just make 2-byte commands so that it will be shorter to type

3:59 AM

I'm not planning something like itertools.combinations_with_replacement. Most will probably be around three bytes (add, sum, sub, diff, mul, prod, etc.), since they're easy to remember

nice

I still have to decide which numeric type I'm going to use. My attempts to create such a type myself failed horribly (excruciatingly slow).

@Dennis Don't you have complex already?

Yeah, but float and complex don't have arbitrary precision. That means I have to implement many atoms several times, since just casting an integer to complex could alter it.

Alright

4:06 AM

My idea is to have only two types: Number and Array

So you can have arbitrary precision complex

just by having an integer tuple

Basically, yeah.

A third property would indicate if the Number should be printed as a number or a character.

4:29 AM

are we talking an integer-indexed array or a Number-indexed array?

Quill

. twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity/status/763593200930029568

pretty bird

Business Cat

Reminds me of Bender being gyroscopically stable

5:15 AM

Hello

hai

@MamaFunRoll \o/ \o/

6:26 AM

Chat is dead

Oh, no surprise

chat has been revived?

also hi!

@DestructibleWatermelon Yes!

@DestructibleWatermelon Hewwo :3

wat do

How about this, let's make another thing like democracy language, except strawpolls get made at a reasonable rate?

strawpoll.me/10966153

6:43 AM

I want to make yet another Democracy language. :3

Well, we make it together?

But I need to prepare a suite of questions.

7:02 AM

they should rename Arqade to Pokémon Go and Minecraft

4

I hope some other people join chat soon

If I'd posted that message when more people were on, I would have gotten at least one star, I think

even if it was a pity star

Yesterday's Mr. Robot episode is so meta it hurts.

g'm

g'm @tux

\o/ higgsbot have 11 rep

10 more to go

@mınxomaτ but that sentence is addressing meta-ness, and so is meta meta, so probs worse. also the previous sentence is meta-meta-meta

7:14 AM

@DestructibleWatermelon And the last sentence in your message is meta meta meta meta, and the part before the comma is meta meta meta meta meta, and...

and that sentence is (meta)^meta, because it is referencing the continual rise in levels of meta

Ack(meta)

@MartinEnder @Sp3000 This may be of interest.

gotta read documentation fast!

I want to find a challenge about finding five means, or averages, of a number list. I don't know what it's called.

Can someone help find it?

7:28 AM

5 means?

Arithmetic mean, geometric mean (?), and three other I don't know.

Does anyone know what the second number under OFFSET in OEIS is?

The first one is, well, the actual offset.

But what's the other?

i dont see any number under OFFSET

The 5 in 0,5.

ah

7:38 AM

I believe it lists the common offsets

nm, 5 is in a weird spot

@feersum Oh yay - 10 looks like brute forceable range though, but if nobody gets to it I'll probably try it manually tonight (bets are Martin will get to it first though :P)

That's OK since I used a computer to write it :)

Wouldn't be surprised - all nontrivial golf attempts in Stack Cats so far have had quite unintuitive optimal solutions :P

The 9-byte solution is computer generated and I don't know what it does. But I golfed the 10-byte version by hand.

it's fun to see that the only way to golf in esolangs created by Martin is bruteforcing

7:47 AM

Do you guys recommend parsing the HTML or the markdown (I'm trying to pull out code blocks and the first line) from Java

Not quite, it's just this one language (not brute forcing is possible but it's usually much worse)

I'm bouncing back and forth

Also Hexagony, no?

@NathanMerrill I recommend using regex

@NathanMerrill MD

7:48 AM

HTML presumably has a lot more canned solutions.

I technically could, since nesting of H2s isn't possible AFAIK

github.com/tuxcrafting/lpp

^ little script i have created for extracting code

@feersum yeah, but it means adding another library (which I don't care about, but I hate enforcing that on those who want to compile my code)

What are you writinG?

KoTH controller

I'm writing the downloader of submissions

7:50 AM

strawpoll.me/10966153

I need to download, then detect the language, the submission name, and pull out any large code blocks

Personally I wouldn't recommend making such a feature.

As it may download un-ready submissions?

@NathanMerrill github.com/muddyfish/cake-cutting-contest/blob/master/…

Better to omit the functionality rather than write something inevitably unreliable.

7:52 AM

@muddyfish oooh, thanks. I'll take a look at what you are doing, but my code is in Java

Martin Ender

@feersum nice. :)

@Sp3000 unlikely. :)

@NathanMerrill What I use when hosting KOTHS

Martin Ender

@feersum in Hexagony I've occasionally managed to find one of the optimal solutions by hand, and if not I was usually close. In Stack Cats I don't even know how to solve general programming problems without the <(...)*(...)> template.

@muddyfish it looks like you have a pretty strict header block: "Name, Language"

@NathanMerrill I know, It's fine for questions where it's enforceable but you could look at how I pull the API

7:55 AM

oh, I've already got the API working :)

@NathanMerrill So if you get it working for generic questions, I'd be happy to see what you've done not so I can steal it or anything