The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

20:00

@TimmyD Yeah, the close reason display is weird like that

I'd prefer it value custom close reasons though.

flawr

@quartata I was there last summer, and it has apparently been there for a while.

quartata

Hmm, probably just my faulty memory lmao

flawr

Well you mean santabarbara?

quartata

@flawr Yeah.

Helka Homba

To emphasize the point here for future viewers: Pop-cons should not be unconditionally avoided. It's just that new users will likely have better luck writing other types of challenges. — Helka Homba 23 secs ago

flawr

20:08

I recently wanted to start a new meta thread for creating a new pop-con tag info.

quartata

The problem is that no one agrees on what we should do about pop cons

flawr

I do not think so. I think it is pretty clear?

quartata

Not really. I think a good chunk of people still think we should keep them

flawr

A majority.

Maltysen

@quartata ...were we planning to get rid of them?

quartata

20:10

And a lot of people want some sort of middle ground but we have no idea what that is

@Maltysen I don't know if you've been watching the close vote queues but people have been systematically going along and closing a lot of old pop cons and underhanded challenges

flawr

I think there is a consensus

quartata

That doesn't really address what we mean by "objective voting criteria"

Is it even possible to have a popcon that has an objective voting criteria

flawr

Who did ever talk about an objective voting criterion?

We did agree on a objective validity criterion

Helka Homba

@flawr I'd say go ahead and edit it if you have the privilege, no need to pre-meta-tate it (:P) We'll fuss at you afterwards if we don't like it

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes raw_input: the input is raw

input: the input is not raw

you get the input as a string

@QPaysTaxes yup

flawr

20:14

@HelkaHomba Well I'm really not good at wording stuff like this.

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes it is

flawr

I talked with @AlexA. about it.

Maltysen

@QPaysTaxes python3, raw_input is gone

input becomes raw_input

quartata

@flawr Read some of the answers on the first thing

Maltysen

oh k

quartata

20:15

@QPaysTaxes you know PyPy3 is a thing right?

Huh. I thought it was in a good state

flawr

@quartata It seems they all agree that we need to require an objective validity criterion, that decides whether a program you want to submit is valid.

And that the objective winning criterion is the number of votes = popularity

quartata

@flawr Right but an objective winning criteria could also be "pick a random answer to be the winner."

flawr

@quartata Did anyone ever suggest this as an alternative?

quartata

I think the problem is that objective winning criteria isn't always enough; we need a goal for the solution writers to shoot for

Popularity is an objective winning criteria but it doesn't tell the solution writers what they should try to achieve necessarily

(aside from writing something appealing)

flawr

Sure! And I think the best way would be making a meta thread to suggest and discuss new drafts of the tag info.

quartata

20:20

Yeah.

A new tag wiki would be great

Dennis

@quartata PyPy3 has been pretty much unusable for me.

quartata

@Dennis Huh.

Dennis

Just lots and lots of errors.

Never had those problems with PyPy and Python 2.

Agawa001

@AlexA. which means ???? ur program randomize more densely before 0.5 ?

Nathan Merrill

hmmm...say you had a database full of movie scripts

and given a string (of words), you want to find the longest sequence of words in the string that also appears in a script

TimmyD

20:27

@QPaysTaxes One of 'em is sashimi, the other one is tempura

:D

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE for some practice problems with radius of convergence, after lhopitaling as n→∞ < 1 I got x < a negative number. Am i doing something wrong, or should I just use the absolute value?

aditsu

The Truth About Japanese Food

►

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen Limits for ratio tests should always be in absolute value.

Maltysen

so I take the limit of |a_n| as n→ ∞

VTCAKAVSMoACE

i.e. You should not arrive at x < a negative number.

@Maltysen What's the problem? :P

PhiNotPi

20:42

really weird plant:

Incredible "Toilet" plant - Attenborough 60 Years in the wild - BBC

►

I would call that plant a "victim" of evolution.

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE oh there isn't any specific one, I just remembered this was happening to me. lemme see if I can dig one of them up

VTCAKAVSMoACE

You should be doing lim_(n→∞)|(a_(n+1))/(a_n)| for ratio tests. @Maltysen

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE that's what I think I'm doing...

VTCAKAVSMoACE

(corrected)

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE oh

I was not doing that

ven

20:46

@QPaysTaxes depends what you're selecting (at least it should)

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE another question: math.ucdavis.edu/~saito/courses/21C.w11/pracfinalsol.pdf how do they get R=5 from |x+2|/5<1 and not R=3

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ will work on FOG online.

Does chrome console run es6 or 7?

quartata

Neither

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

hm

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen Multiply both sides by 5, then remove the absolute value, ending up with -5<x+2<5, then subtract two from all components, -7<x<3, R=5.

quartata

20:49

ES5 with a few ES6 features.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

okai

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm retarded, I was just ignoring the absolute value >_<

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen Absolute value is ridiculously important in this.

quartata

Try a nightly build of Firefox.

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE so -2 is like the a in the power series

VTCAKAVSMoACE

20:51

@Maltysen Assuming you mean that's the center, yes.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Can somebody test this answer? es6fiddle and babel error for me.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

But always work out the ratio test.

Maltysen

k

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Power series was the best test grade I got in Calc BC this semester. :D

Second-best in my class, still a 77%.

Maltysen

o_O

feel bad for you guys

VTCAKAVSMoACE

20:52

My teacher makes crazy hard tests.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

rofl

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Also, make sure you know Polar and Parametric really well.

It's so underplayed, but I think it's harder than series.

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE those are easy, just y'/x'

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen What's the area under a polar curve?

PhiNotPi

I remember BC calc.

(The class, not the material)

VTCAKAVSMoACE

20:54

@Maltysen Also, what's y'/x' in terms of r and θ?

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE 1/2 r(theta)^2 dtheta

just remember the formula for a sector

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen Fair enough (I always forget that one. :P)

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE you can just figure that out cuz y=r*sin(theta) and x=r*cos(theta) and then prolly product rule

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Maltysen Yeah, but screams the formula is so useful to memorize.

Also, we probably should move to a different chat.

We're kinda eating the 19th.

Maltysen

@VTCAKAVSMoACE the formula?

BC Calc Stuff

VTC answers my BC Calc cuz its next week

VTCAKAVSMoACE

20:57

$user image$

Maltysen

oh didn't know this one

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

dang, people are sniping me to the review queues....

I click LQ, nothing there anymore, then VTR is the same. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

21:22

@VTCAKAVSMoACE eyyyy calc

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ \o/

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ cries eternally

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@VTCAKAVSMoACE I hate calc honestly. I love math, hate applied math

PhiNotPi

Who's already had AP exams?

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ High ~~five~~ [5.9]!

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Look at the room. :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

21:25

@flawr :D hi fives

!! :D :D :D

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Ever heard about logarithmic derivatives?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr That would be the first time I've heard about them. What are they? (They sound more pure-mathy)

flawr

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Not really, just a nice "game"

Maltysen

@flawr aren't they f'(x)/f(x)

El'endia Starman

@PhiNotPi Me. Years ago. :P

flawr

21:27

Consider L(f) = f'(x)/f(x)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr o_O what is it?

PhiNotPi

Actually, it looks like the first AP exams are next week. I thought some had happened this week.

flawr

Notice that L(f) = (log(f))'

Then L(f*g) = L(f)+L(g)

L(f^k) = k * L(f)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Is that property maintained through derivative?

flawr

YEah!

And it is used throughout number theory, e.g. when considering dirichlet L-functiosn!

El'endia Starman

21:28

Yeah, d/dx log(f(x)) = f'(x)/f(x).

flawr

I mean it is really nothing difficult but I thought that it was really nice=)

I've used the expression f'(x)/f(x) a ton of times

El'endia Starman

Yeah, it's cool that the rules of logarithms apply to functions and their derivatives too.

flawr

But never thought of that.

I recently looked up the proof of the gauss lucas theorem

El'endia Starman

I don't know what those are either. :P

flawr

Gauss Lucas: "the roots of the derivative of a polynomial are 'within' the roots of the polynomial itself" (considering polynomials over the complex numbers)

El'endia Starman

21:33

......I've used that theorem before without knowing it.

Maltysen

@flawr does that work? that's pretty cool

epicTCK

17

Q: How do I press avocadoes to make avocado oil?

Avocado oil is expensive and I've been trying to figure out a solution to make my own. I'd love to make a press (I do woodworking) but I haven't found anything online. Is there a way to extract avocado oil from avocadoes at home?

Maltysen

brb making cooking.SE account

flawr

The proof is really nice:

Gauss–Lucas theorem

In complex analysis, a branch of mathematics, the Gauss–Lucas theorem gives a geometrical relation between the roots of a polynomial P and the roots of its derivative P'. The set of roots of a real or complex polynomial is a set of points in the complex plane. The theorem states that the roots of P' all lie within the convex hull of the roots of P, that is the smallest convex polygon containing the roots of P. When P has a single root then this convex hull is a single point and when the roots lie on a line then the convex hull is a segment of this line. The Gauss–Lucas theorem, named after Carl...

El'endia Starman

I wrote a program that finds all real roots of arbitrary polynomials by using the bisection method with minima and maxima as the bounds, which I find by finding the roots of the derivative, recursing down to the linear case and then working back up.

Zizouz212

21:34

@epicTCK Avocado.

El'endia Starman

In 12th grade, senior year of high school.

flawr

Cool idea.

Another nice theorem (that I never used) is that the mean of the roots of a polynomial is invariant under differentiation.

(except for the constant polynomials)

El'endia Starman

Since then, I've thought now and then about how to extend the bisection method to the plane. :P

flawr

@El'endiaStarman Binary partition trees?

El'endia Starman

@flawr Wooaahh...I never would've guessed that.

flawr

21:37

@El'endiaStarman But it is so plausible when you think about it=)

El'endia Starman

@flawr Well, the main issue is, I think, that "zeros" are not necessarily single points, but rather level curves.

flawr

Oh, sorry, I mean single variable polynomials (elements in $\mathbb C[X]$)

Zizouz212

Eww

flawr

I have no idea whether this also works with multi variable polynomials.

epicTCK

gemsfromstackexchange.tumblr.com/page/2 is amazing

when did this happen @Mego @MartinBüttner

Martin Büttner

21:40

meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/2140/revisions

Maltysen

@epicTCK the sandbox

epicTCK

why?

El'endia Starman

@flawr And more so, it implies that the sum of the roots of an nth degree polynomial is equal to n-1 times the lone root of the n-1'th derivative of that polynomial. Which is really cool.

flawr

Which also provides a nice bound for the roots I just noticed!

El'endia Starman

...which actually means there's an optimization to the root-finding solution I mentioned earlier! You only have to find n-1 roots and you can calculate the nth!

epicTCK

21:42

is that about code trolling?

flawr

@El'endiaStarman Riight, haha so cool!

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@epicTCK pop-cons, I believe.

quartata

That must be someone here. He/she has the design script

also I'm in both of thos screenshots lmao

flawr

@El'endiaStarman I need to write this stuff down for my future book=P

epicTCK

yeah

Maltysen

21:46

epicTCK

quartata

all right whose tumblr is that

I'm guessing it's orlp

epicTCK

Maltysen

who said that?

Oct 27 '15 at 2:51, by GamrCorps

oh no

GamrCorps, it looks like

quartata

ah ha!

Zizouz212

21:52

Ha ah!

Aa hh!

Hh aa!

flawr

@Zizouz212 You haven't been pinged nearly enough recently, I notice. @Zizouz212

Zizouz212

Ah ha!

You wants to find something out for science?

flawr

Sure?

Zizouz212

I may grant an avocado.

flawr

What if I do not like avocados?

Zizouz212

21:55

Alright... This is no longer on my interesting room list... No one is here!

4

Maltysen

i am

flawr

@Zizouz212 Right, I do only pretend to be here.

Zizouz212

And someone stars that this room is uninteresting... interesting indeed

Alright. Time for science.

flawr

Let's science the shi*t outa here.

Zizouz212

Tell me what you see here: chat.stackexchange.com/messages/29349278/history

Maltysen

21:57

@Zizouz212 who pinned this…

n00b

working on a simple regex hoping somebody here can provide guidance. need to capture digit from a URL, where the url does not contain a given word. been trying to use negative lookup but not getting expected results. heres what i have: regex101.com/r/tC7tA7/1

Optimizer

@Maltysen him only

flawr

@n00b Is it about codegolf?

Zizouz212

@flawr Can you see the link?

n00b

@flawr its a puzzle, not yet listed on codegolf.

Maltysen

21:59

@Optimizer is that allowed?

flawr

@Zizouz212 Well I'm probably seing the same as you do, do I?

Optimizer

mod abuse eleven!!11

Doorknob

@Zizouz212 You know, moderators are supposed to set a good example.

Zizouz212

@Doorknob Wait, can they see the link?

flawr

Zizouz212

22:00

On top of the word Current Version

Optimizer

nothing above it

Also, what else should we expect from a mod having Team Rocket's pet pokemon as profile image.

cat

Should this question be opened or closed? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/6249/code-golf-of-death

Helka Homba

360 View | First Stage Landing on Droneship

►

3

Snifty

cat

It was closed for about 5 hours, but then it got reopened very quickly

flawr

@cat Whatever, it is way too old...

cat

22:08

@flawr yes, but is it enocuraging harmful code? if so, do we like that? should I take my questions to meta?

flawr

@cat Ignore it=)

cat

k

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@cat It specifically says, "Must not damage the system", so it should be fine.

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba So epic.

cat

But then the accepted and top answer could be harmful to a system, according to the comments on it, which is why I added the warning.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

22:12

@cat Those were jokes. :P

Helka Homba

We shouldn't try to retroactively update every single old question for every new meta rule that comes along. Too much maintenence imo

Maltysen

22:27

ROFL:

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen That guy sure ain't getting the job.

Maltysen

@El'endiaStarman well if they answer the question…

cat

@VTCAKAVSMoACE o h

Downgoat

@Maltysen i donut undertind wat duh prublim iz

El'endia Starman

Eh, if they didn't even successfully ask the question on Stack Overflow itself, I have low hopes for their performance elsewhere. :P

Maltysen

22:31

@El'endiaStarman I mean if that was the only question ;P

El'endia Starman

Okay, the guy might get a job, but the company was in trouble anyway. :P

cat

@QPaysTaxes Yes, I did, my internet is just too slow for Chat during the week (cause it's my phone). I can't help you much since I'm still learning Factor and I've never written a substantial UI in it, but I can point you at the UI examples on RosettaCode.

Unless you have specific questions with which I can help

what are you confused about?

Downgoat

> This programming language may be used to instruct a computer to perform a task.

5

ಠ_ಠ I thought this program would make avocad

cat

@QPaysTaxes Did you have a question in specific?

okay

VTCAKAVSMoACE

22:47

/me screams because the small caps :D is so cute.

:ᴅ

Downgoat

TypeError: Cannot read property 'apply' of undefined
    at HelperInit (/home/ubuntu/workspace/Cheddar/dist/helpers/init.js:17:20)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/ubuntu/workspace/Cheddar/dist/interpreter/core/primitives/op/number.js:45:38)
    at Module._compile (module.js:409:26)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:416:10)
    at Module.load (module.js:343:32)
    at Function.Module._load (module.js:300:12)
    at Module.require (module.js:353:17)
    at require (internal/module.js:12:17)

It's like JavaScript is trying to make it a challenge to debug things...

Cyoce

@Downgoat What are you talking about?! That's perfectly clear!

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Downgoat You are using cloud9. :P

Downgoat

@Cyoce no it isn't... If you understand it can you come here and help me debug: ide.c9.io/vihanb/cheddar

Cyoce

VTCAKAVSMoACE

22:49

called it

Downgoat

@Cyoce ?

Cyoce

@VTCAKAVSMoACE looooool

VTCAKAVSMoACE

I have decided on a new terminal look.

Optimizer

@Downgoat typo in variable name?

Downgoat

@Optimizer no :/ seems to be some stupid boolean thing but I have no idea because this debugger is absolute shit

cat

22:53

@VTCAKAVSMoACE relatable

Cyoce

@Downgoat at Object.<anonymous>

Optimizer

@Downgoat why would someone use cloud 9?

Downgoat

@Cyoce oh... hahahaha?

@Optimizer I use it because it is online, and it has collaboration features

Optimizer

has anyone collaborated with you ?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Me like the new terminal background.

Downgoat

22:57

@Optimizer yeah, somebody has a lot, and conor too.

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@Cyoce No - because 192.168 is a LAN IP.

kek

LegionMammal978

An evaluation of all open open-ended questions on Puzzling.SE:

Q2996:  TODO!
Q5508:  needs dictionary.com
Q6083:  needs dictionary.com
Q6273:  needs dictionary.com
Q6301:  best found
Q6314:  needs dictionary.com and/or thesaurus.com
Q6321:  needs dictionary.com
Q6691:  needs dictionary.com
Q8132:  needs dictionary.com
Q8223:  needs dictionary.com
Q8263:  needs dictionary.com
Q8481:  best found
Q8612:  needs dictionary.com
Q8618:  needs dictionary.com
Q9792:  needs dictionary.com
Q9890:  needs dictionary.com
Q10557: needs dictionary.com
Q15834: needs dictionary.com

Can you see a trend here?

quartata

@Cyoce just use dig

or nslookup if you're an old fart like me

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Greeeeaaat.

/me turns on tcpdump.

quartata

Hey you showed your domain name what can I say

VTCAKAVSMoACE

23:03

Fair enough.

I mean, it's not even up right now.

I have the machine off.

quartata

Things on the Internet are going to get probed there isn't much you can do about that

Downgoat

TIL to never batch replace text in large directories of code

VTCAKAVSMoACE

Well, yeah. I get about 600 brute-force attempts daily.

Cyoce

@LegionMammal978 how are these being evaluated?

Downgoat

Does anyone know how I can modify: grep -rl "('Hello')" src | xargs sed -i "s/('Hello')/('<ITERATING NUMBER>')/" to make <ITERATING NUMBER> an iterating number

Cyoce

23:10

@Downgoat It do make avocad. all make avocad. avocad is all. avocad surround us, bind us, galaxy.

quartata

LBL> telnet elxsi
ELXSI AT LBL
LOGIN: root
PASSWORD: root
INCORRECT PASSWORD, TRY AGAIN
LOGIN: guest
PASSWORD: guest
INCORRECT PASSWORD, TRY AGAIN
LOGIN: uucp
PASSWORD: uucp
WELCOME

true story from a textbook of mine

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@quartata /me facepalms.

quartata

pro tip change the default passwords

VTCAKAVSMoACE

And this is why I only use key pairs.

quartata

LBL is a Department of Energy lab, and uucp runs as root

VTCAKAVSMoACE

23:12

oh god

quartata

good thing they didn't have any atomic bombs there

Quill

morning

quartata

monking

Cyoce

mourning?

ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ

quartata

fun fact platypus have venomous spurs on the backs of their feet

@Cyoce can you confirm

Quill

23:19

fun fact, platypuses are one of three species of monotreme

Cyoce

@quartata confirmed. I almost killed my bio teacher with it. shame I didn't ¯\_( ͡ಠ ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)_/¯

quartata

Is that an amalgamation of shrug lenny and disapproval face? Oh dear

Cyoce

@quartata there's more: ( ͡ಠ ツ ͡ಠ) ¯\( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)_/

Phrancis

23:34

Too meta

(monking ಠ_ಠ )

Downgoat

JavaScript is Samsung battery confirmed

Phrancis

Ugh, animated GIFs in chat

please

go

away

come

on

scroll

up

GAH

Quill

using \n newlines \n like \n a \n pro

Phrancis

If I was a RO here I'd just send it to Trash

Optimizer

w

h

a

t

Quill

23:39

@Phrancis You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto

Phrancis

o.o

Only Toto I know about is in Africa

LegionMammal978

@Cyoce By hand

Phrancis

Toto - Africa

►

quartata

I wonder if I could get my phone to use dial up for Internet

I think cell phone audio might be compressed nowadays though

Phrancis

As in the audio signal?

Phone audio signal has always been not so much compressed, but more like forced into certain bands of frequencies, AFAIK

Which I guess is a primitive form of compression meant to maximize signal, before there was such a thing as digital compression

quartata

23:49

Right but I suspect they might do something else nowadays dunno

I know next to nothing about telcom stuff

Phrancis

Forcing devices to encode and decode stuff is kind of an anti-pattern to telecom

If the goal is to transmit a communication come hell or high waters, you probably want it to be as simple of a process as possible, even if that degrades the quality of the signal

quartata

Yeah.

hmm I should do some research into this

Phrancis

42

A: Why can't you hear music well over a telephone line?

The limitation you're hearing has been part of the phone network since long before digital sampling had any part in the telephone system. It is related to the fact that the connection from a land-line phone in your house or office back to the "central office" of the phone company is essentially...

> The engineers who designed the network did numerous experiments to determine just what frequencies needed to be conveyed for people to understand each other's regular speech, and designed the network only to be sure those frequencies were transmitted.

I highly suspect that mobile phone carriers replicate this system pretty closely

quartata

OK. So I probably should be able to dial in directly using whatever the standard encoding methods are for regular dial up modems

BC Calc Stuff

Transcript for