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8:00 PM
@TimmyD Yeah, the close reason display is weird like that
I'd prefer it value custom close reasons though.
 
@quartata I was there last summer, and it has apparently been there for a while.
 
Hmm, probably just my faulty memory lmao
 
Well you mean santabarbara?
 
@flawr Yeah.
 
To emphasize the point here for future viewers: Pop-cons should not be unconditionally avoided. It's just that new users will likely have better luck writing other types of challenges.Helka Homba 23 secs ago
 
8:08 PM
I recently wanted to start a new meta thread for creating a new pop-con tag info.
 
The problem is that no one agrees on what we should do about pop cons
 
I do not think so. I think it is pretty clear?
 
Not really. I think a good chunk of people still think we should keep them
 
A majority.
 
@quartata ...were we planning to get rid of them?
 
8:10 PM
And a lot of people want some sort of middle ground but we have no idea what that is
@Maltysen I don't know if you've been watching the close vote queues but people have been systematically going along and closing a lot of old pop cons and underhanded challenges
 
I think there is a consensus
 
That doesn't really address what we mean by "objective voting criteria"
Is it even possible to have a popcon that has an objective voting criteria
 
Who did ever talk about an objective voting criterion?
We did agree on a objective validity criterion
 
@flawr I'd say go ahead and edit it if you have the privilege, no need to pre-meta-tate it (:P) We'll fuss at you afterwards if we don't like it
 
@QPaysTaxes raw_input: the input is raw
input: the input is not raw
you get the input as a string
@QPaysTaxes yup
 
8:14 PM
@HelkaHomba Well I'm really not good at wording stuff like this.
 
@QPaysTaxes it is
 
I talked with @AlexA. about it.
 
@QPaysTaxes python3, raw_input is gone
input becomes raw_input
 
@flawr Read some of the answers on the first thing
 
oh k
 
8:15 PM
@QPaysTaxes you know PyPy3 is a thing right?
Huh. I thought it was in a good state
 
@quartata It seems they all agree that we need to require an objective validity criterion, that decides whether a program you want to submit is valid.
And that the objective winning criterion is the number of votes = popularity
 
@flawr Right but an objective winning criteria could also be "pick a random answer to be the winner."
 
@quartata Did anyone ever suggest this as an alternative?
 
I think the problem is that objective winning criteria isn't always enough; we need a goal for the solution writers to shoot for
Popularity is an objective winning criteria but it doesn't tell the solution writers what they should try to achieve necessarily
(aside from writing something appealing)
 
Sure! And I think the best way would be making a meta thread to suggest and discuss new drafts of the tag info.
 
8:20 PM
Yeah.
A new tag wiki would be great
 
@quartata PyPy3 has been pretty much unusable for me.
 
@Dennis Huh.
 
Just lots and lots of errors.
Never had those problems with PyPy and Python 2.
 
@AlexA. which means ???? ur program randomize more densely before 0.5 ?
 
hmmm...say you had a database full of movie scripts
and given a string (of words), you want to find the longest sequence of words in the string that also appears in a script
 
8:27 PM
@QPaysTaxes One of 'em is sashimi, the other one is tempura
:D
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE for some practice problems with radius of convergence, after lhopitaling as n→∞ < 1 I got x < a negative number. Am i doing something wrong, or should I just use the absolute value?
 
@Maltysen Limits for ratio tests should always be in absolute value.
 
so I take the limit of |a_n| as n→ ∞
 
i.e. You should not arrive at x < a negative number.
@Maltysen What's the problem? :P
 
8:42 PM
really weird plant:
I would call that plant a "victim" of evolution.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE oh there isn't any specific one, I just remembered this was happening to me. lemme see if I can dig one of them up
 
You should be doing lim_(n→∞)|(a_(n+1))/(a_n)| for ratio tests. @Maltysen
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE that's what I think I'm doing...
 
(corrected)
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE oh
I was not doing that
 
ven
8:46 PM
@QPaysTaxes depends what you're selecting (at least it should)
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE another question: math.ucdavis.edu/~saito/courses/21C.w11/pracfinalsol.pdf how do they get R=5 from |x+2|/5<1 and not R=3
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ will work on FOG online.
Does chrome console run es6 or 7?
 
Neither
 
@Maltysen Multiply both sides by 5, then remove the absolute value, ending up with -5<x+2<5, then subtract two from all components, -7<x<3, R=5.
 
8:49 PM
ES5 with a few ES6 features.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm retarded, I was just ignoring the absolute value >_<
 
@Maltysen Absolute value is ridiculously important in this.
 
Try a nightly build of Firefox.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE so -2 is like the a in the power series
 
8:51 PM
@Maltysen Assuming you mean that's the center, yes.
 
Can somebody test this answer? es6fiddle and babel error for me.
 
But always work out the ratio test.
 
k
 
Power series was the best test grade I got in Calc BC this semester. :D
Second-best in my class, still a 77%.
 
o_O
feel bad for you guys
 
8:52 PM
My teacher makes crazy hard tests.
 
Also, make sure you know Polar and Parametric really well.
It's so underplayed, but I think it's harder than series.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE those are easy, just y'/x'
 
@Maltysen What's the area under a polar curve?
 
I remember BC calc.
(The class, not the material)
 
8:54 PM
@Maltysen Also, what's y'/x' in terms of r and θ?
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE 1/2 r(theta)^2 dtheta
just remember the formula for a sector
 
@Maltysen Fair enough (I always forget that one. :P)
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE you can just figure that out cuz y=r*sin(theta) and x=r*cos(theta) and then prolly product rule
 
@Maltysen Yeah, but screams the formula is so useful to memorize.
Also, we probably should move to a different chat.
We're kinda eating the 19th.
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE the formula?

 BC Calc Stuff

VTC answers my BC Calc cuz its next week
 
8:57 PM
 
oh didn't know this one
 
dang, people are sniping me to the review queues....
I click LQ, nothing there anymore, then VTR is the same. :P
 
9:22 PM
@VTCAKAVSMoACE eyyyy calc
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ \o/
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ cries eternally
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE I hate calc honestly. I love math, hate applied math
 
Who's already had AP exams?
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ High five [5.9]!
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Look at the room. :P
 
9:25 PM
@flawr :D hi fives
!! :D :D :D
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Ever heard about logarithmic derivatives?
 
@flawr That would be the first time I've heard about them. What are they? (They sound more pure-mathy)
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Not really, just a nice "game"
 
@flawr aren't they f'(x)/f(x)
 
@PhiNotPi Me. Years ago. :P
 
9:27 PM
Consider L(f) = f'(x)/f(x)
 
@flawr o_O what is it?
 
Actually, it looks like the first AP exams are next week. I thought some had happened this week.
 
Notice that L(f) = (log(f))'
Then L(f*g) = L(f)+L(g)
L(f^k) = k * L(f)
 
Is that property maintained through derivative?
 
YEah!
And it is used throughout number theory, e.g. when considering dirichlet L-functiosn!
 
9:28 PM
Yeah, d/dx log(f(x)) = f'(x)/f(x).
 
I mean it is really nothing difficult but I thought that it was really nice=)
I've used the expression f'(x)/f(x) a ton of times
 
Yeah, it's cool that the rules of logarithms apply to functions and their derivatives too.
 
But never thought of that.
I recently looked up the proof of the gauss lucas theorem
 
I don't know what those are either. :P
 
Gauss Lucas: "the roots of the derivative of a polynomial are 'within' the roots of the polynomial itself" (considering polynomials over the complex numbers)
 
9:33 PM
......I've used that theorem before without knowing it.
 
@flawr does that work? that's pretty cool
 
17
Q: How do I press avocadoes to make avocado oil?

calico-catAvocado oil is expensive and I've been trying to figure out a solution to make my own. I'd love to make a press (I do woodworking) but I haven't found anything online. Is there a way to extract avocado oil from avocadoes at home?

 
brb making cooking.SE account
 
The proof is really nice:
In complex analysis, a branch of mathematics, the Gauss–Lucas theorem gives a geometrical relation between the roots of a polynomial P and the roots of its derivative P'. The set of roots of a real or complex polynomial is a set of points in the complex plane. The theorem states that the roots of P' all lie within the convex hull of the roots of P, that is the smallest convex polygon containing the roots of P. When P has a single root then this convex hull is a single point and when the roots lie on a line then the convex hull is a segment of this line. The Gauss–Lucas theorem, named after Carl...
 
I wrote a program that finds all real roots of arbitrary polynomials by using the bisection method with minima and maxima as the bounds, which I find by finding the roots of the derivative, recursing down to the linear case and then working back up.
 
9:34 PM
@epicTCK Avocado.
 
In 12th grade, senior year of high school.
 
Cool idea.
Another nice theorem (that I never used) is that the mean of the roots of a polynomial is invariant under differentiation.
(except for the constant polynomials)
 
Since then, I've thought now and then about how to extend the bisection method to the plane. :P
 
@El'endiaStarman Binary partition trees?
 
@flawr Wooaahh...I never would've guessed that.
 
9:37 PM
@El'endiaStarman But it is so plausible when you think about it=)
 
@flawr Well, the main issue is, I think, that "zeros" are not necessarily single points, but rather level curves.
 
Oh, sorry, I mean single variable polynomials (elements in $\mathbb C[X]$)
 
Eww
 
I have no idea whether this also works with multi variable polynomials.
 
when did this happen @Mego @MartinBüttner
 
@epicTCK the sandbox
 
why?
 
@flawr And more so, it implies that the sum of the roots of an nth degree polynomial is equal to n-1 times the lone root of the n-1'th derivative of that polynomial. Which is really cool.
 
Which also provides a nice bound for the roots I just noticed!
 
...which actually means there's an optimization to the root-finding solution I mentioned earlier! You only have to find n-1 roots and you can calculate the nth!
 
9:42 PM
is that about code trolling?
 
@El'endiaStarman Riight, haha so cool!
 
@epicTCK pop-cons, I believe.
 
That must be someone here. He/she has the design script
also I'm in both of thos screenshots lmao
 
@El'endiaStarman I need to write this stuff down for my future book=P
 
yeah
 
9:46 PM
 
all right whose tumblr is that
I'm guessing it's orlp
 
who said that?
Oct 27 '15 at 2:51, by GamrCorps
oh no
GamrCorps, it looks like
 
ah ha!
 
9:52 PM
Ha ah!
Aa hh!
Hh aa!
 
@Zizouz212 You haven't been pinged nearly enough recently, I notice. @Zizouz212
 
Ah ha!
You wants to find something out for science?
 
Sure?
 
I may grant an avocado.
 
What if I do not like avocados?
 
9:55 PM
Alright... This is no longer on my interesting room list... No one is here!
4
 
i am
 
@Zizouz212 Right, I do only pretend to be here.
 
And someone stars that this room is uninteresting... interesting indeed
Alright. Time for science.
 
Let's science the shi*t outa here.
 
9:57 PM
@Zizouz212 who pinned this…
 
working on a simple regex hoping somebody here can provide guidance. need to capture digit from a URL, where the url does not contain a given word. been trying to use negative lookup but not getting expected results. heres what i have: regex101.com/r/tC7tA7/1
 
@Maltysen him only
 
@n00b Is it about codegolf?
 
@flawr Can you see the link?
 
@flawr its a puzzle, not yet listed on codegolf.
 
9:59 PM
@Optimizer is that allowed?
 
@Zizouz212 Well I'm probably seing the same as you do, do I?
 
mod abuse eleven!!11
 
@Zizouz212 You know, moderators are supposed to set a good example.
 
@Doorknob Wait, can they see the link?
 
 
10:00 PM
On top of the word Current Version
 
nothing above it
Also, what else should we expect from a mod having Team Rocket's pet pokemon as profile image.
 
cat
Should this question be opened or closed? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/6249/code-golf-of-death
 
cat
It was closed for about 5 hours, but then it got reopened very quickly
 
@cat Whatever, it is way too old...
 
cat
10:08 PM
@flawr yes, but is it enocuraging harmful code? if so, do we like that? should I take my questions to meta?
 
@cat Ignore it=)
 
cat
k
 
@cat It specifically says, "Must not damage the system", so it should be fine.
 
@HelkaHomba So epic.
 
cat
But then the accepted and top answer could be harmful to a system, according to the comments on it, which is why I added the warning.
 
10:12 PM
@cat Those were jokes. :P
 
We shouldn't try to retroactively update every single old question for every new meta rule that comes along. Too much maintenence imo
 
10:27 PM
ROFL:
 
@Maltysen That guy sure ain't getting the job.
 
@El'endiaStarman well if they answer the question…
 
cat
@VTCAKAVSMoACE o h
 
@Maltysen i donut undertind wat duh prublim iz
 
Eh, if they didn't even successfully ask the question on Stack Overflow itself, I have low hopes for their performance elsewhere. :P
 
10:31 PM
@El'endiaStarman I mean if that was the only question ;P
 
Okay, the guy might get a job, but the company was in trouble anyway. :P
 
cat
@QPaysTaxes Yes, I did, my internet is just too slow for Chat during the week (cause it's my phone). I can't help you much since I'm still learning Factor and I've never written a substantial UI in it, but I can point you at the UI examples on RosettaCode.
Unless you have specific questions with which I can help
what are you confused about?
 
> This programming language may be used to instruct a computer to perform a task.
5
ಠ_ಠ I thought this program would make avocad
 
cat
@QPaysTaxes Did you have a question in specific?
okay
 
10:47 PM
/me screams because the small caps :D is so cute.
:ᴅ
 
TypeError: Cannot read property 'apply' of undefined
    at HelperInit (/home/ubuntu/workspace/Cheddar/dist/helpers/init.js:17:20)
    at Object.<anonymous> (/home/ubuntu/workspace/Cheddar/dist/interpreter/core/primitives/op/number.js:45:38)
    at Module._compile (module.js:409:26)
    at Object.Module._extensions..js (module.js:416:10)
    at Module.load (module.js:343:32)
    at Function.Module._load (module.js:300:12)
    at Module.require (module.js:353:17)
    at require (internal/module.js:12:17)
It's like JavaScript is trying to make it a challenge to debug things...
 
@Downgoat What are you talking about?! That's perfectly clear!
 
@Downgoat You are using cloud9. :P
 
@Cyoce no it isn't... If you understand it can you come here and help me debug: ide.c9.io/vihanb/cheddar
 
 
10:49 PM
called it
 
@Cyoce ?
 
@VTCAKAVSMoACE looooool
 
I have decided on a new terminal look.
 
@Downgoat typo in variable name?
 
@Optimizer no :/ seems to be some stupid boolean thing but I have no idea because this debugger is absolute shit
 
cat
10:53 PM
@VTCAKAVSMoACE relatable
 
@Downgoat at Object.<anonymous>
 
@Downgoat why would someone use cloud 9?
 
@Cyoce oh... hahahaha?
@Optimizer I use it because it is online, and it has collaboration features
 
has anyone collaborated with you ?
 
Me like the new terminal background.
 
10:57 PM
@Optimizer yeah, somebody has a lot, and conor too.
 
@Cyoce No - because 192.168 is a LAN IP.
kek
 
An evaluation of all open questions on Puzzling.SE:
Q2996:  TODO!
Q5508:  needs dictionary.com
Q6083:  needs dictionary.com
Q6273:  needs dictionary.com
Q6301:  best found
Q6314:  needs dictionary.com and/or thesaurus.com
Q6321:  needs dictionary.com
Q6691:  needs dictionary.com
Q8132:  needs dictionary.com
Q8223:  needs dictionary.com
Q8263:  needs dictionary.com
Q8481:  best found
Q8612:  needs dictionary.com
Q8618:  needs dictionary.com
Q9792:  needs dictionary.com
Q9890:  needs dictionary.com
Q10557: needs dictionary.com
Q15834: needs dictionary.com
Can you see a trend here?
 
@Cyoce just use dig
or nslookup if you're an old fart like me
 
Greeeeaaat.
/me turns on tcpdump.
 
Hey you showed your domain name what can I say
 
11:03 PM
Fair enough.
I mean, it's not even up right now.
I have the machine off.
 
Things on the Internet are going to get probed there isn't much you can do about that
 
TIL to never batch replace text in large directories of code
 
Well, yeah. I get about 600 brute-force attempts daily.
 
@LegionMammal978 how are these being evaluated?
 
Does anyone know how I can modify: grep -rl "('Hello')" src | xargs sed -i "s/('Hello')/('<ITERATING NUMBER>')/" to make <ITERATING NUMBER> an iterating number
 
11:10 PM
@Downgoat It do make avocad. all make avocad. avocad is all. avocad surround us, bind us, galaxy.
 
LBL> telnet elxsi
ELXSI AT LBL
LOGIN: root
PASSWORD: root
INCORRECT PASSWORD, TRY AGAIN
LOGIN: guest
PASSWORD: guest
INCORRECT PASSWORD, TRY AGAIN
LOGIN: uucp
PASSWORD: uucp
WELCOME
true story from a textbook of mine
 
@quartata /me facepalms.
 
pro tip change the default passwords
 
And this is why I only use key pairs.
 
LBL is a Department of Energy lab, and uucp runs as root
 
11:12 PM
oh god
 
good thing they didn't have any atomic bombs there
 
morning
 
monking
 
mourning?
ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ_ಠ
 
fun fact platypus have venomous spurs on the backs of their feet
@Cyoce can you confirm
 
11:19 PM
fun fact, platypuses are one of three species of monotreme
 
@quartata confirmed. I almost killed my bio teacher with it. shame I didn't ¯\_( ͡ಠ ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)_/¯
 
Is that an amalgamation of shrug lenny and disapproval face? Oh dear
 
@quartata there's more: ( ͡ಠ ツ ͡ಠ) ¯\( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ಠ)_/
 
11:34 PM
Too meta
(monking ಠ_ಠ )
 
JavaScript is Samsung battery confirmed
 
Ugh, animated GIFs in chat
please
go
away
come
on
scroll
up
GAH
 
using \n newlines \n like \n a \n pro
 
If I was a RO here I'd just send it to Trash
 
w
h
a
t
 
11:39 PM
@Phrancis You're not in Kansas anymore, Toto
 
o.o
Only Toto I know about is in Africa
 
@Cyoce By hand
 
I wonder if I could get my phone to use dial up for Internet
I think cell phone audio might be compressed nowadays though
 
As in the audio signal?
Phone audio signal has always been not so much compressed, but more like forced into certain bands of frequencies, AFAIK
Which I guess is a primitive form of compression meant to maximize signal, before there was such a thing as digital compression
 
11:49 PM
Right but I suspect they might do something else nowadays dunno
I know next to nothing about telcom stuff
 
Forcing devices to encode and decode stuff is kind of an anti-pattern to telecom
If the goal is to transmit a communication come hell or high waters, you probably want it to be as simple of a process as possible, even if that degrades the quality of the signal
 
Yeah.
hmm I should do some research into this
 
42
A: Why can't you hear music well over a telephone line?

The PhotonThe limitation you're hearing has been part of the phone network since long before digital sampling had any part in the telephone system. It is related to the fact that the connection from a land-line phone in your house or office back to the "central office" of the phone company is essentially...

> The engineers who designed the network did numerous experiments to determine just what frequencies needed to be conveyed for people to understand each other's regular speech, and designed the network only to be sure those frequencies were transmitted.
I highly suspect that mobile phone carriers replicate this system pretty closely
 
OK. So I probably should be able to dial in directly using whatever the standard encoding methods are for regular dial up modems
 

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