The Nineteenth Byte

PhiNotPi

14:00

TBH, I think you are wasting time trying to implement a tiebreaker like this.

Nathan Merrill

really?

I should just do it randomly?

PhiNotPi

The whole point of the other 99% of the process is so that the tiebreaker is almost never used.

Martin Büttner

@Zgarb I've been looking at the seemingly chaotic map f(x) = x - 1/x ... You don't happen to know if it has a name and has been studied (or where to look)? I can't find it in Wikipedia's list of chaotic maps, and I want to make sure the chaos I'm seeing doesn't really from floating point inaccuracies blowing up.

PhiNotPi

The tiebreaker only exists because one of the requirements of a voting procedure is to assign a strict order in all cases.

Even when the votes are tied.

Nathan Merrill

its also fun to write difficult algorithms :P

Brain Lot

14:02

Is this for your KotH thing?

Nathan Merrill

yeah

Brain Lot

Random tiebreakers have been fairly well received in the past

But... that was because losing one of your team of 100 people didn't matter much

PhiNotPi

I say, in a case like A>B>C>D, D>E>A, you just randomly pick between the interpretations.

Or, if there's any sense of "margin of victory" go with that.

Nathan Merrill

well, its actually, really hard to handle that case

because, I have a list of equality groups

so to break an equality group, I need to put it somewhere

so I would need to assign "E" to a random equality group

I think if I don't have complete ballots, I'm just going to do random tiebreakers

PhiNotPi

Suggestion: take each pair of candidates in the new ballot, randomize that list, and enforce them in that order.

D>E, E>A, D>A ---> randomize ---> E>A, D>A, D>E ---> E>A is enforced

Nathan Merrill

14:09

oh, I had another question. Often times we care about results being reproducible, which means that I'm allowing random to be seeded

should I use the seeded random to generate the tournaments, or only to run the games?

zyabin101

@NathanMerrill Your games need to be deterministic, according to my Koth standards. Use seeded random to run the games.

Nathan Merrill

right, but do you also care about the tournaments being deterministic?

(the orderings of the games)

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill try looking over this page, there's some pseudocode on it: alumnus.caltech.edu/~seppley/MAM%20procedure%20definition.htm

Nathan Merrill

I actually already read through that :P

but thank you

PhiNotPi

okay

What do think of the randomize list idea above?

Nathan Merrill

14:16

it would work, but too complicated for what I want to do

I'd have to maintain a set of "added candidates", and if they are in that set, randomly determine where they go

it has a couple of (workable) problems, such as: what if its E>B?

assuming first ballot of A>B>C>D

PhiNotPi

At this point, it's probably best just to make a random tiebreaker.

Nathan Merrill

exactly

PhiNotPi

Then do that.

TimmyD

function tiebreaker(candidates){return "TimmyD wins!"}

zyabin101

@TimmyD Invalid.

TimmyD

14:26

It's pseudocode.

Implementation is left as an exercise for the reader.

zyabin101

Reason 1: Tiebreaker is biased towards 1 specific candidates.

Reason 2: No usage of the candidates parameter.

TimmyD

> Guaranteed to be random.

zyabin101

Reason 3: Invalid return type (str but needed int).

@TimmyD Was funny but not now.

TimmyD

ಠ_ಠ ... xkcd is always funny ... ಠ_ಠ

zyabin101

@TimmyD But using xkcd in code golf is never funny.

TimmyD

14:30

Good thing this isn't a code golf answer, then, but rather a KotH framework. ;-)

Katenkyo

@zyabin101 Valid 1: It still is a tiebreaker

Valid 2: you don't HAVE to use your parameters, even if it is ugly to not

zyabin101

@Katenkyo Invalid 4: It is not a valid tiebreaker per the three reasons above.

Katenkyo

Valid 3: no return type specified

zyabin101

@Katenkyo Returned value is index of the winning candidate, which is int.

TimmyD

@zyabin101 How did you interpret that out of that pseudocode?

Katenkyo

14:35

@zyabin101 a string is perfectly acceptable as a return in this case in my language(Lua) :D

zyabin101

57% of the respondents to the straw poll use Windows. :D

Katenkyo

Windows is a great OS, user-friendly and widely spread

They even corrected some bad things about it with PowerShell!

TimmyD

PowerShell is great and does all things.

Katenkyo

Yes, really usefull

The problem comes when you have to build a script that could be used on some old winXP computers... Still have to write those in Batch :/

zyabin101

Why no one talks with Marky? ;(

♦ Beep Boop Bingus Bin

VITRIFICATION ORDER (1947) CONDEMNED DO NOT ENTER

Katenkyo

14:50

He _UNKed at me too much

Easterly Irk

@TimmyD Yeah, the same way as windows.

I would use powershell if it didn't mean using windows, sorry.

Katenkyo

@EasterlyIrk you don't need to use PowerShell if you don't use Windows, that's a nonsense ^^

PowerShell's object can sometimes be great, but it can become much more complicated than a bash script where you only handle strings

TimmyD

15:05

Yeah, it's a tradeoff. Personally, I like not having to calculate out a grep or regex statement everytime I'm passing info from command to command

Easterly Irk

Are snippets allowed by default? i.e. only run in a REPL?

Katenkyo

@TimmyD Yeah, that's pretty nice, but have you tried manipulating Export-CSV for instance.... A hell lot more complicated than just formating datas by hand...

Easterly Irk

Marky is being annoying again.

ಠ_____________UNK__________________ಠ

feersum

It's too bad that you're forced to be in the bot chat rooms

Easterly Irk

I GOT IT

HE _UNKED

@feersum Me, or Marky?

@CoolestVeto sorry to inform you that vitsy won't be president, but Trump probably will.

ETHproductions

15:21

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I posted cat and TM in NTFJ.

Easterly Irk

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ how to print stuff in jolf?

ETHproductions

I also have a 106-byte solution to "Hello, World!". Would you like me to post that separately, or update your solution with it?

Easterly Irk

From a moment in our life when stars abounded:

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ correction: How to get the full list of printable chars? please tell me you remembered a short variable for that.

TimmyD

@Katenkyo I have. (I've actually created several custom reports for internal use here at work.) Not sure what sorts of difficulty you're having, but it's not terribly complicated. It's much like other things in PowerShell, and strongly follows GIGO principles.

ETHproductions

@EasterlyIrk I'm having trouble just getting a double-digit number :P

Katenkyo

15:34

@TimmyD My troubles was about the layer of complication needed, for instance, a simple matrix of value cannot be passed to it, you have to use a custom PSObject... which is sad :/

TimmyD

Oh, yeah. But, that follows standard PowerShell pipeline practices, so I can see why they designed it that way, but you're right -- "just export the damn matrix" is cumbersome

Katenkyo

This type of things fall under the category of "too lazy implementing multiple types of input" for me

TimmyD

($matrix |%{$I=$_;(0..$_.count|%{$I[$_]})-join','})-join"`n" | Out-File foo.csv

Zgarb

@MartinBüttner I must admit that continuous dynamics is not my strong point... but a quick search for famous chaotic systems didn't turn up anything.

TimmyD

Or alternatively ...

($matrix |%{($_|%{$_})-join','})-join"`n" | Out-File foo.csv

Katenkyo

15:42

@TimmyD Exactly what I did, except you'd want to | Out-File foo.csv -Encode UTF-8 because some program that may use this CSV won't support an other type of encoding

TimmyD

Sure sure

New Main Posts

1

Q: Draw an ASCII house

This is a window: --- | | --- Let's add some walls |. Put two spaces on either side of it so that the window has plenty of room. | --- | | | | | | --- | Now let's add a roof and a ceiling. To keep the window in the middle of the room, let's add one more row above it and below it. ---...

Katenkyo

@NewMainPosts This challenge looks fun to do, but don't have the time right now :'(

Easterly Irk

16:01

@ETHproductions :(

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ witness our complaints.

alt.org/nethack/dudley/?621

CoolestVeto

Question: when BigDecimal refers to precision, does that mean the number of decimal places beneath the decimal point or the total number of places?

Easterly Irk

IDK

Katenkyo

@CoolestVeto I think it correspond to the total number of places (the total size of this type is bigger than a Float or Double)

CoolestVeto

Ew. ಠ_ಠ That means I have to manually find the lowest precision.

Katenkyo

Moreover, I don't see how you could increase the number of decimal places without increasing the total number of places, as decimal numbers are encoded like scientific numbers

Helka Homba

16:10

Whats a good word for "the function a line of a program is in"? The surrounding function? The current function?

Both seem misleading

Katenkyo

@HelkaHomba I ' m not sure what you mean...

Easterly Irk

The current enviroment?

Helka Homba

@Katenkyo e.g. "When the return statement is encountered the ______ function ends it's execution*

Easterly Irk

s/_____//

Just the function.

Katenkyo

^

feersum

16:13

enclosing

Easterly Irk

^

Helka Homba

@feersum I like that, thanks

CoolestVeto

return new Rational(this.mainComp.multiply(augend.divisor).add(augend.mainComp.multiply(divisor)), this.divisor.multiply(augend.divisor));

This is totally logical code, what are you talking about?

XD

Nice name @WotADong

Helka Homba

Oh, Hi VTC

CoolestVeto

ohai

How's it going?

Aqua Tart

16:16

@CoolestVeto oh dear

Helka Homba

Why is everyone changing their names after I did?

Katenkyo

@CoolestVeto my longest return statement ever was approximately 300 char long...

CoolestVeto

@Katenkyo I probably could do that, but I'm not sure I want to ternary that much...

@HelkaHomba We did it in your honor. o~o

Also because I always change, once per month.

Katenkyo

@CoolestVeto return "Ternary is love" and "Ternary is life" or "What about quadnary?"

CoolestVeto

ಠ_ಠ

Aqua Tart

16:19

This is probably my longest return statement.

if(Polygon.npoints < 3) return new Polygon(new int[]{image.getMinX(),image.getMinX() + image.getWidth(), image.getMinX(), image.getMinX() + image.getWidth()},new int[]{image.getMinY(), image.getMinY(),image.getMinY() - image.getHeight(),image.getMinY() - image.getHeight()},4);

CoolestVeto

@Katenkyo Fun fact: that's correct AppleScript syntax.

@AquaTart O.o

Aqua Tart

Runner up:

return (e instanceof EntityPlayer ? MatrixUtil.binarySearch(entities, e, ServerGlobals.g) : meniscus - 1);

Doubles as making no sense whatsoever

Katenkyo

@CoolestVeto That's also correct (and the only) lua syntax for a ternary :)

@AquaTart you were lazy about reducing it x)

Aqua Tart

This was before code golf.

CoolestVeto

Question: what's the proper method for applying modulo to fractions?

Roujo

16:20

The "everything is an expression" part of F# makes this a bit... unfair, I guess?

Aqua Tart

Who names variables meniscus and waldo anyways

Katenkyo

@CoolestVeto modulo only apply to integers

Roujo

Since it means that I've written functions where the return is technically just one biiig expression =P

Aqua Tart

Clearly I was drunk or something

Katenkyo

Also, I have to go, by everyone :)

CoolestVeto

16:21

@Katenkyo bai

Perhaps not modulo, but the remainder of division, then.

Roujo

Collection initialization comes to mind, too

Aqua Tart

9 answers away from code golf silver.

Roujo

let someRandomFunction a b c =
    match a, b, c with
    | Some a, _, _ ->
        [|
            a
            2
            3
        |]
    | _, Some b, Some c ->
        [|
            1
            b
            c
        |]
    | _, _, _ ->
        Array.empty

That's technically just one return statement, the match

CoolestVeto

Roujo

Are those... errors? D:

CoolestVeto

16:29

Yup.

Roujo

Ouch =P

Helka Homba

@CoolestVeto Subtract out the number until you can't anymore like normal. e.g. 7 mod 2 = 5 mod 2 = 3 mod 2 = 1 -> 7.8 mod 2.2 = 5.6 mod 2.2 = 3.4 mod 2.2 = 1.2`

CoolestVeto

@HelkaHomba I found a builtin class. x.x

I was implementing BigRational... when it already existed.

>.> Abandoned.

flawr

6

CoolestVeto

wat

zyabin101

16:45

@CoolestVeto Dude in a boat.

o-)

CoolestVeto

ERRORS FIXED.

(and the bug testing begins...)

flawr

zyabin101

@flawr I starred all three of them.

flawr

Lol, I unstarred all of them^^

But I was admittedly the first one to star them, so it is nice to see what dynamic we've got here=)

zyabin101

* 10 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates
* 10 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates
* 9 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates

Morgan Thrapp

16:49

That third one is just stupid, so I didn't star it.

zyabin101

random-scrollbar-on-messages-is-wrong

Roujo

@MorganThrapp Agreed. Darn repost.

Morgan Thrapp

@Roujo Plus, the kerning is all wrong on that one.

zyabin101

* 11 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates
* 10 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates
* 10 ಠ_ಠ - 18h ago by Zach Gates

flawr

@AlexA. This one is for you: youtube.com/watch?v=WUk4yYvK09k

Set Big O

16:52

My new Marky brain isn't being very nice so far:

in Beep Boop Maggot, 47 secs ago, by Marky Markov

@SetBigO you're not a good man.

:/

flawr

@SetBigO Bigot.SE

Set Big O

Oh that's nice.

flawr

Anyway: How frequently can you change your SE name?

Set Big O

>_>

Once every 30 days.

Pietu1998

ninja'd

Set Big O

16:53

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Roujo

@SetBigO Right, all you're doing is changing your parent user, isn't it =P

Set Big O

I'm not sure if I'm not sure if that's a good way to do it, but I'm not sure what you mean.

CoolestVeto

		case "prime":
			Apfloat n = top();
			rmtop();
			if (n.truncate().compareTo(n) != 0) {
				push(new Apfloat(0));
				break;
			}
			if (n.compareTo(new Apfloat(2)) < 0) {
				push(new Apfloat(0));
				break;
			} else if (n.compareTo(new Apfloat(2)) == 0 || n.compareTo(new Apfloat(3)) == 0) {
				push(new Apfloat(1));
				break;
			} else if (n.mod(new Apfloat(2)).compareTo(Apfloat.ZERO) == 0 || n.mod(new Apfloat(3)).compareTo(Apfloat.ZERO) == 0) {
				push(new Apfloat(0));
				break;
			}
			Apint sqrtN = ApfloatMath.sqrt(n).add(Apfloat.ONE).truncate();

AAAAAH!

Prime testing is the worst now.

Set Big O

A pint is an eighth of a gallon. You shouldn't need sqrt() to figure it out :P

CoolestVeto

ಠ_ಠ

Roujo

17:03

[Meanwhile, in the metric system]

CoolestVeto

This is legitimately awful.

It's going to be nightmarish figuring this out. :I

El'endia Starman

@Roujo Hmm, maybe, maybe not.

Set Big O

@Roujo Ordering a half-liter of beer/ale just doesn't have the same charm.

Roujo

@SetBigO True enough. Which is why you order 500 cl! =D

CoolestVeto

ಠ_ಠ It's still losing precision.

Set Big O

17:06

500 cl? Isn't that, like, a lot?

El'endia Starman

cl = cubic liters?

CoolestVeto

It's outputting stuff like 6e1. ಠ_ಠ

El'endia Starman

I know of cc = cubic centimeters.

Set Big O

I assumed centiliters (even though I know nobody who uses that), but that would still be 5 liters o_o

El'endia Starman

haha, yeah

CoolestVeto

17:07

@Roujo This should be mL.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@ETHproductions Feel free to :) Please give me links for stuff

CoolestVeto

Litres is capital.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EasterlyIrk Explain?

Is @CoolestVeto VTC?

CoolestVeto

/me forces 100 long precision.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ya. :D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I like the name! And profile pic too!

Roujo

17:13

@SetBigO Right, dammit. It should be 50 cl.

Set Big O

Meanwhile, in imperial it's "a pint" :P

Roujo

Yeah, I agree entirely =P

I just saw glasses like those: amazon.com/Set-Stella-Artois-Glasses-Chalices/dp/B002ZQCGXQ

Set Big O

Metric is great for some things, don't get me wrong. But some things really are simpler in imperial.

Roujo

And have a couple at home, too

@SetBigO Agreed. Which is why we use both here in Canada! =P

In Québec, anyway

Distances? Kilometers. Height? Feet and inches.

Product weight? Kilograms. Personal weight? Pounds.

Temperature? Ehhh... Body temp is either Celcius or Fahrenheit, depending on age. Outside temp is Celcius, unless we're talking about the water in the pool in which cas it's Fahrenheit

Speed is in km/h, but the vernacular still contains expressions like "a hundred miles per hour" to indicate something that's really fast

Bagged milk comes in gallons, although they're marked in liters. Boxed milk is in liters entirely. Beer is in pints...

El'endia Starman

That's worse than all-imperial.

CoolestVeto

17:26

This is bs.

I converted to Apfloat and it doesn't work.

So now, after I deleted my own Rational type, I have to make it again, because the program doesn't do what the API says it should.

I hate everything.

El'endia Starman

Moral of the story: don't delete your stuff?

CoolestVeto

I suppose.

I'm gonna go for a bit so I don't do this:

Roujo

17:48

@CoolestVeto Source control ftw?

CoolestVeto

@Roujo It was mid-update. Eh. It's not really necessary yet.

Brain Lot

@SetBigO Does your kid enjoy playing magic? And how old is he again?

I'm trying to give advice based on experience (since MTG is kind of an investment)

Set Big O

I haven't started him on it yet, but he's nine.

I think he'd like it more in a couple years.

TimmyD

> Introduce your kids to Magic. That way they'll be too poor to do drugs.

Set Big O

I have a crapload of cards he can learn with, though, so the initial investment isn't so high.

Brain Lot

17:57

Ah, okay. I thought you introduced it to him already

I thought you were a good father

Set Big O

He used to play the Pokemon TCG with me ;)

Brain Lot

Did he like it?

And do you remember how old he was?

Set Big O

Yea, but not many of his friends play, and there's only so many times you can play with Dad, if you know what I mean.

Umm, 7-8.

@BrainLot Also, there's this:

in Beep Boop Maggot, 1 hour ago, by Marky Markov

@SetBigO you're not a good man.

So now I'm questioning myself.

Brain Lot

He really should run for president

Set Big O

I'd vote for him, but I'm not sure if he can. I'm fairly certain he's not 35 yet.

Brain Lot

18:02

Just set the clock on your machine to 2051

Set Big O

Oh, good point.

He's not having it.

zyabin101

62% of 21 respondents use Windows.

Set Big O

Not really, because the poll doesn't allow you to check multiple options. I use both Linux and Windows for various things, but I could only choose one so I chose not-windows, like any sane person would.

It's more like 62% chose windows as their favorite, regardless of what they might use.

Brain Lot

I think a sane person would choose the one they use a majority of the time.

Unless the poll was "Which one is your favorite?"

Set Big O

@BrainLot I use linux at home and windows for work, so I'm honestly not sure which is the majority :/

If I could have checked both, I would have. But with the options the way they are, it gets skewed no matter what I choose.

zyabin101

18:10

I should probably regularly do surveys.

Set Big O

Only if they're worded/set up better than this one >_>

Brain Lot

I love the new captcha. Check the box for I am not a robot

Set Big O

Yea, it's much better than reading people's house numbers.

Brain Lot

I'm guessing it checks the path that your mouse took and the exact spot that it clicked to determine whether or not you are a robot

Set Big O

Pretty much, along with timing and such. I read an article on it when they announced it a while ago.

Brain Lot

18:13

I read an article on bot detection in some game I was playing a long time ago

Set Big O

I've played around with bot detection, but never deep. Just really obvious stuff (for an MMO private server).

Brain Lot

I love the use of asterisks in this email from Papa Johns:
Small 1-Topping *Pizza &
a 20oz. Drink
For Only $7.00
Valid 10:30 a.m - 3:00 p.m ONLY
*A Small 1-Topping Pizza & 20oz. Drink

Just to show that I didn't grab text from different parts of the ad lol

Roujo

@BrainLot googleonlinesecurity.blogspot.ca/2014/12/…

El'endia Starman

@BrainLot hahaha

Helka Homba

Woo, Shtriped finally has complete documentation!

El'endia Starman

18:40

Wait But Why gave a TED Talk and wrote about it.

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi gist.github.com/nathanmerrill/25618561552e64c1d692

there are likely bugs, but I finally got it written

Martin Büttner

10

this was waiting on the kitchen table when I got home today

CoolestVeto

18:55

That is awesome. :D

Zgarb

@MartinBüttner :O

What's it made of?

Martin Büttner

it was (warm) chocolate pudding with some cocoa on top

Nathan Merrill

who made it?

Martin Büttner

my girlfriend

Nathan Merrill

is SO already sending out swag?

ah cool :P

Zgarb

18:59

@NathanMerrill Mmm, edible swag...

Martin Büttner

I got that cocoa stencil a while ago

Nathan Merrill

also, I just looked at your picture (like, actually looked at it), and you look nothing like I expected

♦ Beep Boop Bingus Bin

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