The Nineteenth Byte

But really, whenever I see him answering a question with code and no further comment, usually one of the first answers I cannot help but think he's just doing that for gaining extra reps...

Geobits

> as far as I know

anOKsquirrel

@VoteToClose as far as I know

VoteToClose

Ah. Makes sense.

Martin Büttner

4:35 PM

@flawr accusations!

VoteToClose

Okie, thanks. :P I didn't see it before.

flawr

@MartinBüttner Nope, just expressing what is going throu my mind?

anOKsquirrel

@VoteToClose wait, how long have you been using the internet? :P

VoteToClose

2 minutes?

Wait, no.

googles what you call the length of the universe

Geobits

AFAIK, it's been longer than two minutes.

IIRC

AFAICR

flawr

4:37 PM

Internet Internet Relay Chat?

VoteToClose

Side note: Mac considers "googles" a word.

anOKsquirrel

@flawr if i remember correctly

Geobits

@VoteToClose Who doesn't by now?

Optimizer

AFK BRB

VoteToClose

I think it means integrated reporting...?

International Integrated Reporting Council*

Geobits

4:39 PM

IANAL is one of the better acronyms IMO.

Martin Büttner

@flawr I don't know... I do the same all the time. 90% of the time, I find some improvement (sometimes substantial) after posting the answer, and rewriting one of those CJam explanation is a massive pain.

Geobits

Simple solution: Don't use CJam

2

VoteToClose

@Geobits New product from Apple. Buy now and get 60% off!

gets detected by spam alarm D:

Martin Büttner

@Geobits It's not much different in any other language if the algorithm itself needs an explanation.

flawr

@MartinBüttner I'm not saying it is not allowed, I am just saying what impression I get whenever I see this.

Geobits

4:40 PM

I didn't say it was the best solution ;)

VoteToClose

@flawr I agree with this. And most FGITW solutions follow a similar-looking pattern.

anOKsquirrel

esolangs.org/wiki/Sclipting what is this ahhhhh

feersum

I don't write an explanation fairly often, when I think no one will read it and if they did it would be quite boring.

Martin Büttner

@anOKsquirrel one of Timwi's babies

flawr

@VoteToClose FGITW?

VoteToClose

4:43 PM

fastest gun in the west

Although it's proper form is F^ITW - fastest carrot in the west.

Geobits

It's a common complaint on most SE sites, but there's no real way to prevent it, even if the powers-that-be wanted to.

flawr

How about flag->delete? This would certainly prevent some of those.

status-declined

^

^

4:44 PM

status-why

VoteToClose

If it answers the question successfully, why would they delete it?

TimmyD

status-ripe-for-abuse

Martin Büttner

deletion is not for "flawr doesn't like this kind of answer"

2

Geobits

Because the whole system runs on rep, and you simply can't prevent people from trying to accumulate it. If you deleted fast answers, people would just leave.

Martin Büttner

if you think it's a bad answer, downvote it

7

that's what they're for

flawr

4:45 PM

What sense does an answer make that does not exlpain what it is doing?

VoteToClose

Then make a new account and downvote more. c:

flawr

Even if it does it correctly.

feersum

I give up on trying to find bugs with this regex replacement. I'm just gonna post it :P

Geobits

@MartinBüttner I can only star this once :(

Dennis

@flawr You do realize that your latest two answers do not come with an explanation, yes?

Optimizer

4:46 PM

@Geobits I can star it multiple times. given I unstar it soon enough

Rainbolt

So it turns out that Martin actually is Legendary.

5

Martin Büttner

@Rainbolt sweet :D

flawr

@Dennis As long as you can read the code you can at least guess what it does. But no, my latest two answers contain explanations.

VoteToClose

@Rainbolt "I'm thankful that I have PPCG to distract me literally every second of every day."

Martin Büttner

(you could have told me that my choice of colour was limited to those 5... that would have made it easier)

VoteToClose

4:48 PM

/me hops on the thankful for train.

Rainbolt

@MartinBüttner I was going to pick the closest one.

You choose salmon, I pick red. Etc etc.

Geobits

Just make him an artifact then.

Martin Büttner

@flawr whether that code is readable surely depends on the reader?

flawr

@MartinBüttner Not if it is CJam =)

VoteToClose

CJam users can read CJam.

Martin Büttner

4:49 PM

I can definitely read Dennis's CJam answers more easily than that Brainfuck and probably more easily than that Matlab/Java mix.

flawr

Thats exactly what the explanations are good for.

Geobits

That's the problem. "Readable" is subjective. Subjective issues are downvote-worthy. Deletion is for blatantly bad, harmful, or not-an-answer answers.

New Main Posts

1

Q: Help me manage my time.

I have been recently told to read an entire physics textbook by the new year (true story, unfortunately). I need your help to determine what chapters I should read each day. This is where you come in. Input Two dates, in any format. The second date will always be later than the first. A list...

1

Q: Drawing Lewis Structures of Alkanes

I just had a lesson in school about alkanes and figured it would probably make for a great code golf challenge! Don't worry, it isn't as complicated as it may look! A Quick Rehash (Please Note: To keep this brief, not all information is 100% accurate.) Alkanes are strings of carbon and hydroge...

ascii-art chemistry

TimmyD

@NewMainPosts Whoa, whoa, slow down there, sparky.

flawr

@Geobits I mean I am not actually suggesting deleting those answers, and I am not even downvoting them, I just usually want to see how others solve the problem.

Geobits

4:51 PM

Ah, I thought your "flag->delete" comment was a suggestion ;)

Optimizer

@TimmyD it's literally asking for time managerment

flawr

@Geobits A very serious one.

PhiNotPi

If we're offering suggestions here, I have something that I need a suggestion for. As an English assignment, I need to write a short speech "which argues that [some thing] is better than [some other thing]". No topic restrictions, funny/sarcastic speeches welcome (often encouraged), and it is the world's most casual environment. What should I do?

Geobits

So you're suggesting deleting them, but not suggesting deleting them...?

Rainbolt

@PhiNotPi MTG is better than Pokemon

Optimizer

4:52 PM

yeno

Geobits

@Rainbolt Maybe the card game, but not the franchise as a whole.

Optimizer

@Rainbolt but is it better than Duel Masters?

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi I remember giving a speech in favour of 48-hour days for either a German or English assignment, can't remember.

TimmyD

@PhiNotPi Java is better than C++

flawr

@PhiNotPi Windows VS IOs

Geobits

4:53 PM

@PhiNotPi Spaces are better than tabs

Smooth is better than chunky

Optimizer

@flawr Why will you compare Windows with Input Output speeds?

TimmyD

@Geobits flags as offensive

flawr

@PhiNotPi Pi is better than Phi

Geobits

QWERTY is better than DVORAK

Rainbolt

governing.com/topics/politics/gov-issues-to-watch-2015.html

Digital Trauma

4:54 PM

@PhiNotPi PPCG chat is better than boring english assignments

11

Geobits

Up is better than down

anOKsquirrel

Left is better than up

Dennis

@flawr I'm perfectly fluent in CJam, so for 9/10 CJam answers I don't need an explanation to understand them. I find MATLAB, Java and especially Brainfuck a lot harder to read, since I'm not fluent in any of those. Even with the quick overview you've included in the two answers, I still don't have the slightest clue what they do.

flawr

@Geobits I did not expect that from you=)

VoteToClose

@Geobits I'm surprised you think this. I see you as a down kind o' guy.

Martin Büttner

4:54 PM

Best is better than good.

JimmyJazzx

@flawr if Tao is better then Pi and pi is Better then Phi, is Tao better then Phi?

Optimizer

@flawr its a trap for stars

PhiNotPi

Doge vs. Mr Skeltal?

anOKsquirrel

CJam is better than Pyth.

Geobits

@flawr In most cases. Voting is a different beast.

Martin Büttner

4:55 PM

@anOKsquirrel truth.

VoteToClose

Dupe-check: Outputting system time by any form possible including errors and standard loopholes?

Digital Trauma

@MartinBüttner betterer is better than better

anOKsquirrel

@MartinBüttner exactly.

Geobits

Tall is better than short

Dark elves are better than forest elves

Martin Büttner

@PhiNotPi Are we being helpful? :)

Geobits

4:56 PM

Spacetime is better than either space or time

anOKsquirrel

GTG cya

PhiNotPi

I could do "pen is mightier than the sword" but in a literal combat situation.

anOKsquirrel

@PhiNotPi YES

Geobits

Loved and lost is better than never having loved

A thousand words is actually better than a picture

JimmyJazzx

@VoteToClose print"5" because my system is in MargaritaVille

Geobits

4:57 PM

A rose by its actual name is better than one by any other

Optimizer

2 is better than 1

Digital Trauma

@Geobits A thousand pictures is better than one word

VoteToClose

@JimmyJazzx +1 for effort.

flawr

@Dennis As I said that is why I like explanations. You said you cannot read matlab and I say exactly the same about cjam. Thats why I think it would be nice to have some explanations even if people fluent in the language can read what it is doing.

VoteToClose

I'm asking if it's already been asked.

Geobits

4:57 PM

@DigitalTrauma Well yea, that's like a million words :P

My dog is better than your dog

Optimizer

Wrong is better than Alex

2

Geobits

Ouch

TimmyD

^

VoteToClose

@Optimizer Error - Alex is better than Alex does not compile.

Optimizer

That's past

Digital Trauma

4:59 PM

infinity is better than infinity

TimmyD

@DigitalTrauma Given there are different types of infinity, sure

Geobits

A fist to the face is better than a knee to the groin

flawr

NaN > Inf

Optimizer

Alex is infinitely wrong?

VoteToClose

∞ > ∞ for ∞ input.

Digital Trauma

4:59 PM

recursion is better than recursion

2

flawr

P > NP

VoteToClose

c;

flawr

C++ > C

C > C--

Optimizer

ಠ_ಠ is better than AlexA.

2

VoteToClose

C+++ > C++

Optimizer

5:00 PM

@flawr that is actually false. post fix increments later on

VoteToClose

2 mins ago, by VoteToClose

@Optimizer Error - Alex is better than Alex does not compile.

flawr

@Optimizer That is an "is greater than" sign.

Optimizer

var C = 1;
C++ > C

> false

VoteToClose

>

Optimizer

?

Geobits

5:02 PM

<

flawr

@Optimizer You evaluate in the ~~wrong~~ AlexA. direction.

Optimizer

@flawr its not me, I ran it in JS

and I think C also does the same. IIRC

TimmyD

><> > ><>

flawr

@Optimizer Perhaps you ran it in SJ?=)

Optimizer

didn't get it

Geobits

5:03 PM

I don't understand why it wouldn't be false (in most any language that uses that operator). C increments after the first, so it would be comparing 1 > 2

JimmyJazzx

@TimmyD Fish is greater then fish?

flawr

@Optimizer JS backwards.

TimmyD

@JimmyJazzx The first one is plural.

flawr

@Geobits I think I heard once that many languages evaluate in the other direction. But it might be wrong.

Optimizer

@flawr no

@flawr even if it does, then both LHS and RHS are equal, still false

as ++ will kick in only after the usage

flawr

5:05 PM

@Optimizer touché

Optimizer

lol, its still false, how is that a valid place for touche?

Geobits

C > --C

flawr

@Geobits Is this brainfuck?

Geobits

----

PhiNotPi

It is valid BF.

Geobits

5:06 PM

C+++C>C

TimmyD

2 hours ago, by TimmyD

@Geobits WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY TO ME?!

2

Geobits

:D

VoteToClose

10 secs ago, by VoteToClose

@flawr This is testing something. Do not respond.

Geobits

@VoteToClose Can I?

flawr

@VoteToClose What are you testing?

Geobits

5:07 PM

Self-quoting, apparently.

VoteToClose

Seeing if self-quoting still pushes the notification.

feersum

I usually feel silly when writing explanations.

I'm sure that this, for example, is complete gibberish to anyone besides me.

TimmyD

@feersum I understand some of those words.

feersum

@TimmyD :O which ones??

VoteToClose

Is there a tag for standard loopholes allowed?

underhanded?

flawr

5:13 PM

@feersum But still I get an impression of what is going on. If there is gibberish code (as golfed code usually is) but there is no hint of what is going on you could as well just write #Mylanguage, 999bytes without posting the code.

TimmyD

> If we had to search for partial matches rather than matching only the full input, then it would be very easy.

Geobits

Mini-chat-challenge: What's (2040-1624)/12 ?

flawr

I see posting answers as showing off what you were able to do but at the same time providing something others can learn from. But if you have no idea what is going on, you cannot really learn from it.

In my opinion you do not have to explain every detail of the code, but just the rough idea.

Geobits

Vote accordingly :)

TimmyD

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> (2040-1624)/12 outputs 34.6666666666667

Geobits

5:15 PM

TimmyD wins!

TimmyD

Why is my code not coding ...

Geobits

Markdown doesn't work right with multi-line. Add four spaces to each line or Ctrl-k it all.

Or that

VoteToClose

WTF?

Martin Büttner

@feersum say, regex 01 ... how come the !(l.) generated by the 1 doesn't cause this to fail unconditionally?

VoteToClose

Unicode character 1624 breaks Vitsy. -.-

Geobits

5:18 PM

Always happy to help.

feersum

@MartinBüttner Because it's impossible to match for a second time a cell that you have already gone over.

Martin Büttner

oh, that's useful

(in this case)

TimmyD

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> ([decimal]2014-[decimal]1624)/[decimal]12
32.5

ಠ_ಠ

Martin Büttner

@feersum Still slightly questionable interpretation of the no-regex rule :P (especially considering the trivial translation without anchors)

feersum

Overall the language is much different from a regex, but the subset used here is mostly the same.

Geobits

5:21 PM

@TimmyD Only thirteen sixths off :/

TimmyD

PEBKAC

Martin Büttner

@feersum But yeah, as I said, I don't even think I could beat this with Retina

feersum

What does Retina do by default if there is 1 line and no backtick instructions?

TimmyD

2014 ╘ 2014

Martin Büttner

count matches

TimmyD

5:23 PM

whoa

Martin Büttner

the problem is the anchors

^ I can do with balancing groups, but I'm not sure about about $

feersum

There is no unmatched brackets trick in Retina, so yeah, it would be tough

Martin Büttner

well you can leave {} unmatched which makes them literals

(I think)

(or that might only be ECMAScript)

no, works in .NET too

user2958652

Is soliciting for Mathematica evaluations allowed? :P

Geobits

@user2958652 Is it about this? If so, you should probably golf in a language you can test yourself. If you only have Maxima, just find something that works there and post it as such.

user2958652

5:32 PM

Yes, yes it is about that, heh.

Martin Büttner

@feersum I think this might work:

(?<!\1)(?<1>0)(?=(?<2>.)?)(?<-2>)
(?<!\1)(?<1>1)(?=(?<2>.)?)(?<-2>)
(
|
)
*

that's 70

feersum

I have no idea what balancing group does so yeah

Martin Büttner

wait that's wrong

TheDoctor

nvm

PhiNotPi

> You are alone in a room. You don't know how you got here or why, but what you do know is that you about to get attacked by a team of ninja samurai warriors, and you are running out of time. In front of you is a table, and on it lie two weapons. On the left is a two-handed sword, 58 inches total length, 4 pounds weight, 42 inch blade, steel. On the right is a ballpoint pen, 5 inches, 2 caliber, retractable, tungsten carbide and plastic. Which do you choose?

Optimizer

5:37 PM

@TheDoctor is that a selfie?

PhiNotPi

(possible intro for my speech)

DanTheMan

@PhiNotPi How is a pen 2 caliber?

PhiNotPi

The width of the line, about 0.5 mm = 0.019"

DanTheMan

Ah. I was not familiar with that aspect of pens.

Geobits

@PhiNotPi Pen. I have a chance to stab with that, at least. I doubt I'd be able to accomplish anything at all with a sword in close quarters.

But someone who did know how to use a sword might grab both and slip the pen in a pocket for backup use.

Though a 16 inch handle seems excessive for a sword that size.

flawr

5:47 PM

I think that handle (40cm) seems reasonable when you cosider the length of the whole sword is about 1.45m

Geobits

<- not a sword expert

quintopia

what was the story behind all those colored mazes

Dennis

@MartinBüttner Currently trying to port it to Retina.

quintopia

@PhiNotPi Well, I've heard that one of those weapons is mightier than the other, but I'm probably not the most skilled person to test the theory.

Martin Büttner

@Dennis just commented with a port

Dennis

5:50 PM

Perfect timing. :)

quintopia

@PhiNotPi Maybe I could get this guy to teach me:

Focused Impact Volume 1: A Practical Course In Self-Defense With Tactical Pens

►

Dennis

@MartinBüttner That was exactly what I had tried. Unsuccessfully, I might add. Turns out I just had to update Retina.

Martin Büttner

yeah, mixing mode types wasn't possible until recently

you could be really cheeky and say that file 1 and 4 are the same, so that you count the fourth file as 1 byte (for a non-arbitrary file name), but I'm not sure if that's going too far :P

feersum

How could you add a file without at least 2 bytes? One for a space between filenames and one for a name.

Martin Büttner

@feersum well there is always one byte for each additional file

feersum

5:59 PM

@MartinBüttner What do you mean?

Martin Büttner

14

A: Counting bytes for multi-file programs

This proposal is trying to close all of these loopholes with two policy changes. Add 1 byte or character for each file after the first. This means that you can still split up your code into multiple files and even make the distribution into files significant for your program, but it's going to ...

2

feersum

Did you make this rule specifically for Retian?

Martin Büttner

sort of

before this rule, Retina basically got free bytes

and I figured if we didn't have a ruling on it there, we could get a Unary derivative where the source code consists of N empty files

@PeterTaylor You said the regex compilation challenge was trivial in Retina, right? I'm really curious how you'd solve it.

Dennis

@MartinBüttner With no discussion in the comment section about this topic, I'd say the current consensus is to count the file twice. :/

Martin Büttner

probably... still the shortest answer so far

Optimizer

6:04 PM

Who wouldn't like million of empty files in his code folder?

TimmyD

@Optimizer Windows?

Optimizer

4 mins ago, by Martin Büttner

and I figured if we didn't have a ruling on it there, we could get a Unary derivative where the source code consists of N empty files

and that unary programs easily reach million 0

TimmyD

Right ... and you asked who wouldn't like that ... Windows would not like that.

Optimizer

well, any OS would not like that

TimmyD

Explorer tends to get sluggish around 15,000 files in a folder

feersum

6:09 PM

@MartinBüttner Your scoring method for codes involving file reuse cannot be right.

Optimizer

so does ls

feersum

It allows arbitrarily large amounts of information to be encoded in 1 "byte".

Optimizer

@feersum reencoded. Just like you store a code in a string and eval multiple times

feersum

@Optimizer That's not what I mean.

Optimizer

nvm then

TimmyD

6:11 PM

Technically, NTFS only allows 2^32 -1 files per volume, so we've hit upon an upper bound of a unary program using that file structure.

feersum

Say you have used 500 files. If you reuse one of them, then you have 500 choices for the next file.

You shouldn't have more than 256 choices for one byte.

I would say that if files are reused, then you must count the entire command line in the byte count.

As well as the file names of files used.

Optimizer

@feersum well, names of 500 files cannot be covered in a single byte anyways

so in cases where a single byte is not able to hold all file names, yes, it should count the exact size of file name

feersum

In the scheme describe here the files' names are not counted in any way.

Optimizer

care to comment to that answer?

kirbyfan64sos

7:02 PM

@Doorknob meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/7500/21009

VoteToClose

I'm an idiot

3

flawr

But it is dark outside?

Why is it that you seem to be the only one using this Vitsy language?

Dennis

For the same reason I'm the only person using ShapeScript.

flawr

Oh, ViTSee = VTC

But ShapeScript != Dennis? =)

You did something wrong when naming your language=)

Dennis

I'm not sure what AKAVSMoACE is supposed to mean though.

flawr

7:16 PM

Dennis = ShapeScript

Geobits

also known as very spoopy monster of awesomely concentrated evil

Dennis

@flawr I'm actually a changeling, so it's all good.

flawr

changeling?

JimmyJazzx

Well I feel like I'm the only one around here that uses VBA but I didn't create it.... to the best of my memory....

Martin Büttner

@feersum yes, that's true, my rule assumes that the file names fit into one byte

(which makes for a lot less than 256 different files because of file name restrictions)

Dennis

7:18 PM

12

A: Create a programming language that only appears to be unusable

Changeling (safe) ShapeScript ShapeScript is a naturally occurring programming language. Shape shifters (or Changelings, as they prefer to be called) can transform into a set of instructions that allows them to process data. ShapeScript is a stack-based language with a relatively simple syntax...

VoteToClose

0

A: Shortest ><> numbers

Vitsy, 30 Bytes Method shamelessly given by DanTheMan's solution. Db/)[N;]Df1+/)[a-'a'+O;]d3*D{Z Db/)[N;] If the number is less than 10, output its decimal representation and exit. Df1+/)[a-'a'+O;] If the number is less than 16, output its hexadecimal repre...

Okay. Fixed. :D

I'm gonna be pwned by languages with greater than/less than support and hexadecimal output, but, eh.

feersum

Am I the only one who thinks 1 byte (for code golf scoring) should not be able to contain more than 8 bits of entropy?

Optimizer

does anyone know that there is a theme song for WYSIWYG ?

flawr

@feersum @Optimizer No.

feersum

Whoa, nice distributed answering.

flawr

7:28 PM

Answer-golf.

Martin Büttner

@feersum since we almost never make use of the full 256 values in any programming language, I don't think that log 257/log 256 is worth the trouble of any more complicated rule.

Optimizer

MACKLEMORE & RYAN LEWIS - DOWNTOWN (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO)

►

Zach Gates

Could you explain what an offending phrase looks like? @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ

VoteToClose

Anything in TNR.

flawr

I do not think we have ever done a challenge about linear regression, did we?

Agawa001

7:40 PM

@trichoplax hey, maybe too late but i thought if you add a bonus score to this challenge when number isnt converted to binary but since the bounty ended it doesnt matter

flawr

Didn't we have a catalogue tag or somethign similar?

Martin Büttner

no.

2

flawr

Hm I would have bet we had one...

Agawa001

@MartinBüttner its wierd the world we live in where human words cant reach their meaning more than mechanical key words can do, i didnt understand sum-free challenge quiet well until i had been debugging your c code

but cant do much since, with couple of nice solutions there i dont think i can beat them

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