The Nineteenth Byte

Rydwolf Programs

2:30 AM

Just gonna put this here

> I'm not interested in participating in the strike, sorry

> I for the most part agree with SE's new policy on likely GPT-derived answers

> The harm a false positive would do could be very high, and they have demonstrated evidence of false positives being possible

> And while I dislike plagiarism, there needs to be solid proof of plagiarism, which I don't believe GPT-detection tools are capable of with enough certainty

> The vast majority of AI posts that get removed are most likely bad enough to be deleted on their own merit anyway.

I think people are kinda overreacting to the new policy on GPT answers, which is understandable given the nonsensical blog post on AI that preceded it

There are three issues with AI answers:
- Plagiarism
- Content quality
- Site-specific bans

Content quality should be handled identically for any answer regardless of its author, machine or not. If it's valid and useful, it's valid and useful.

Site-specific bans are IMO reasonable, since it reduces moderation load, but those are only relevant where neither of the other two factors are involved (it's both properly attributed and of high quality, since if one of those wasn't true you'd either not know for certain it's AI-generated, or it could just be removed on the grounds of quality)

Since an un-attributed AI answer is already against site rules anyway

Unrelated String

yeah the only real argument for blanket ai bans is it makes content quality harder to determine
since a bad human answer tends to have other obvious issues as well

but attribution kinda covers that anyways

Rydwolf Programs

This really kinda reduces to "what should the burden of proof be for plagiarism from GPT"

And I think we should have a discussion about what that is, since the risk of false positives is high, and a "innocent until proven guilty" approach seems very sensible to me as a default

The lack of willingness to have a community discussion about what that burden of proof should be is of course annoying, but hardly off brand for SE, and they at least defaulted to the safer of the two extremes

Rydwolf Programs

2:52 AM

@Ginger ~~I would personally rather the ICBMs be expired~~

(altho really SLBMs are the ones to be worried about)

(and hypersonics but it's not looking like they'll be an issue any time soon)

Rydwolf Programs

3:17 AM

→ 2 messages moved to The Sand Trap

Your wish is my commish

mousetail

4:55 AM

@RydwolfPrograms The issue is moderators already combine multiple tools and get second opinions before suspending people

DLosc

@UnrelatedString I definitely didn't once lock myself out of my computer until realizing I'd switched keyboard layouts by accidentally hitting Ctrl-Shift before typing my password... :P

Adám

7:15 AM

@AviFS I'm not optimistic:

PlaceReporter99

9:16 AM

I have only thought of 22 builtins for my math-based programming language

well, 22 tokens actually

abxyfgΣ∏$¢ť⅟êłỉį+-×÷ř

input a and b
define f and g
using x and y
Σum it all up
and ∏ultiply it together
the $ine, ¢osine and ťangent
⅟eciprocate

łogarithms
ỉist length
įtem in list
the arithmetic operations +-×÷
take a řoot

êxponentiate

Adám

9:33 AM

@PlaceReporter99 Does that mean you are asking what's missing? Do you want feedback on your glyph choices? Something else?

Also, doesn't this belong in the GC?

Hello, World!

10:56 AM

0

A: "Hello, World!"

Commodore C64 BASIC (Non-competing/just for fun), 36 Tokenised BASIC bytes, 34 PETSCII characters 0LIST:REM"{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}{DEL}HELLO, WORLD! This uses a trick to hide a BASIC line, by starting a REM statement with a quotation mark, you may use the delete ...

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms but they are???

> Expired: ICBMs

PlaceReporter99

Stack Overflow on companies house

Star ^ maybe?

Ginger

no, it's not useful or interesting

Adám

@PlaceReporter99 Please don't ask for stars.

PlaceReporter99

The org has problems

like the confirmation statement being overdue

Adám

11:08 AM

So what?

PlaceReporter99

If you’re really angry at the company, you can knock on their door at:
55 BROADWAY, 25TH FLOOR, NEW YORK, NY, 10006

Ginger

@Feeds I know where you live now

PlaceReporter99

That’s the us address

Adám

One Exchange Plaza — that's hilarious. I wonder if coincidental.

mousetail

11:23 AM

Doxing a company lol

Ginger

12:02 PM

well, I've managed to break my PFP :/

OMG

I THINK I KNOW WHY HYPER'S PFP IS BROKEN FOR ME

@hyper-neutrino how large is your PFP?

like, what are the actual dimensions of the image?

mousetail

i.sstatic.net/qZtxP.png?s=32

Ginger

because I think what's going on here is that Imgur's refusing to perform an upscale if Chat asks for an image size larger than the file

my bi-ified PFP is 64 pixels square, but the image on the left of the chat box is 128 square

mousetail

Changing the size doesn't seem to matter

Ginger

i.sstatic.net/qZtxP.png?s=128&g=1

^ is what Chat uses for the left PFP image, and it doesn't work for me

mousetail

If I set g=1 it breaks

But if I change s it doesn't matter

PlaceReporter99

12:05 PM

@mousetail it was actually public info

mousetail

Exactly that's why it was dumb

Ginger

all info is public if you look hard enough

5

[Like and Subscribe] for more life pro tips

PlaceReporter99

@Ginger this is not a youtube video

Ginger

it's a joke ~~you semi-evolved simian~~

PlaceReporter99

@Ginger Yes i am a soft toy

Sandbox Posts

1:20 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Detect sloppy randomness code-golfdecision-problem The C rand() function is often implemented like so: static unsigned long int next = 1; int rand(void) // RAND_MAX assumed to be 32767 { next = next * 1103515245 + 12345; return (unsigned int)(next/65536) % 32768; } void srand(unsigned i...

Rydwolf Programs

2:15 PM

@Ginger Exactly and I'm saying I'd rather that be the case :p

mousetail

Depends on if you are on the same continent or not

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger Aha, now I know your blood type

@mousetail That's...technically the truth ig :p

hyper-neutrino

3:08 PM

@Ginger I have no idea actually

it's a gravatar if that helps

Rydwolf Programs

It's 80×80 I think

Wait no nvm

Gravatar just defaults to thst when no size is specified

hyper-neutrino

also, regarding the AI policy, all I'll say is regardless of what the logical better extreme is the approach is what bothers me. yes there is risk for false positives but suspensions aren't final and people can always appeal their case in mod messages (same for any other false positive suspension, it's not like those don't happen), and there are often some pretty obvious cases (like if the user posts something containing "as an AI language model") that we're not allowed to say are AI-generated anymore unless the user themselves says it was which literally will never happen

I'm not interested in participating in the strike either (at least as of right now); it's no secret that I'm hardly even active around here anymore and depending on how things go I may just step down sooner or later and let someone else more deserving of the position become mod (unrelated to recent events)

Rydwolf Programs

(I'd assume that "as an AI language model" would count as admission of using AI right?)

(Like you can't really claim bad English skills for that one :p)

hyper-neutrino

(I suppose :P)

Rydwolf Programs

Okay actually that would be a pretty great joke...inserting "as an AI language model" into some sort of speech then pausing after you say it and glancing concernedly at your notecards

Adám

4:32 PM

"Regenerate response" as email signature.

7

Sandbox Posts

5:02 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

You're a programming language, right? According to CGCC, for something to be considered a programming language, it must be capable of addition and primality testing. This challenge combines them into one. Challenge You must write a programme that takes 2 natural numbers (including 0) as input, ch...

PlaceReporter99

__init__

Ginger

6:04 PM

ooh, have yall seen developer.mozilla.org?

they redid the site for pride month

mousetail

Second best site on the internet

Ginger

(I've seen it before, I just wanted to point out the theme change)

Aiden Chow

6:23 PM

guys interesting graphical-output mini challenge for yall, cmc: fill in everything except for second quadrant

basically they have to be two different colors, 2nd quadrant and rest of the output

tried it recently with desmos, got it down to 9 bytes

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Reversed squares Given a integer n, your task is to determine whether it is a perfect square that when reversed,, is still a perfect square. If n is negative, only the number part should be counted. Test cases 1 => True 4 => True 9 => True 441 => True 1234567654321 => True -1089 => True -484 => T...

Seggan

@AidenChow I've got a 5 byte one that makes the 2 and 4 quadrants a different color, but not just 2

> Our community has given is feedback through the evolution of this tool, and their feedback is critical to how it scales

right

stackoverflow.blog/2023/05/31/…

Simd

7:27 PM

if I have some png files. What is the golfiest way to convert them into an animated gif that shows each one once programmatically?

Bbrk24

import some_png_library
import some_gif_library
let frames = filenames.map(f => loadPngFromFile(f))
let gif = createGifFromFrames(frames)

/hj

Ginger

"well, I think this is the part where we ffmpeg"

Bbrk24

…fast fourier mpeg?

Ginger

Frick Frick Mpeg, it's an insanely powerful (and insanely complex) suite of audio/video/image manipulation and processing tools

Rydwolf Programs

ffmpeg should be your automatic answer to any question involving photo, audio, or video manipulation

Unrelated String

7:39 PM

^

Ginger

(disclaimer: I don't think it actually stands for Frick Frick Mpeg)

^^

Unrelated String

first and last solution for everything

Ginger

only thing you ever need (except maaaaaybe Audacity for audio)

Unrelated String

apparently the ff stands for fast forward???

Rydwolf Programs

> together with "FF" for "fast forward"

weird

Ginger

7:40 PM

ಠ_ಠ

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms good to know

Ginger

I like Frick Frick Mpeg better

Unrelated String

didn't audacity do something really stupid a couple years ago
did they fix it

Ginger

@UnrelatedString I have no clue

Bbrk24

The only thing I ever used audacity for was AP Music Theory

Ginger

7:40 PM

~~time to check the Controversies section of their WP article~~

Rydwolf Programs

Okay one exception: if it's just photo, ImageMagick is better IIRC

Ginger

maybe

ImageMagick is even more geriatric than FFMpeg

Bbrk24

~~I use paint~~

Ginger

I've used it on occasion, and it's good, but I like FFMpeg more

Bbrk24

paint.net, not MS paint, to be fair

Unrelated String

7:42 PM

ffmpeg's pure image options are like kinda limited filters-wise but if you want to do something really involved with still images you've got plenty of other options anyways

Ginger

fair

Unrelated String

and you can probably still turn them into ffmpeg plugins :P

Ginger

actually IM isn't as bad as I recall

it even has an (awful-looking) GUI

Unrelated String

lol

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString Maybe this?:

> In May 2021, after the project was acquired by Muse Group,[53] there was a draft proposal to add opt-in telemetry to the code to record application usage. Some users responded negatively, with accusations of turning Audacity into spyware.[54] The company reversed course, falling back to error/crash reporting and optional update checking instead.

Ginger

7:43 PM

hey, at least they listened

unlike a few other companies I could name

Unrelated String

yeah that

surprised i never heard they turned it around :P

Ginger

I kinda hope SE adds, like, "Stack Overflow Gold" or something so I can call them $tack Exchange instead

Rydwolf Programs

You mean SE Nitro?

We all know how that went

Ginger

no, SE Nitro is too powerful for the public

Rydwolf Programs

Well duh

Ginger

7:45 PM

we can't just let random coders warp the fabric of reality!

Bbrk24

what actually is se nitro?

Ginger

ohhhhh boy

you are in for a treat

user

@RydwolfPrograms Whenever I read it I hear it as "senitro" (said in a really bad movie Italian accent)

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger It's owned by Muse Group, which is led by Martin Keary, a YTer (Tantacrul), who's very reasonable

Ginger

SE Nitro is a stick-figure webcomic authored by Rydwolf with most of the members of TNB as the cast

user

7:46 PM

@Bbrk24 Rydwolf made a comic involving a bunch of TNB in-jokes

Ginger

you can read it here

user

Made in Paint (or something like it)

Ginger

the beginning's a bit weird, but it does get better

Rydwolf Programs

^

Ginger

@user *chrome canvas

user

7:47 PM

Ah

The hovertext makes it much easier to understand

Ginger

it also happens to star me and mathcat, which totally doesn't contribute to my endorsement of it

user

I gave up on trying to read it when Rydwolf first made them

Ginger

lol

Bbrk24

I’ll look at that after work

Rydwolf Programs

Yeah I fully intended it to be like ten panels long and a joke so a consistent style didn't develop for a while and I never actually put much effort into readability

Ginger

7:48 PM

and then, well

Unrelated String

can the website be updated to support arrow key navigation

user

^ please

Ginger

I am going to make a better site for it at some point

Rydwolf Programs

It's run by emanresu, ask them

Unrelated String

actually wait maybe i'll make one of those custom gist sources for cubari lmao

user

7:48 PM

Also when I hit next on the last page in a chapter, can it go to the next chapter?

Bbrk24

@UnrelatedString No, if we touch the code the entire website explodes /j

Rydwolf Programs

Actually I could probably go add the arrow keys now

user

@UnrelatedString @emanresuA FR: arrow navigation for senitro

Rydwolf Programs

I think I have push perms for the repo

user

Shouldn't be too hard to make a userscript

Rydwolf Programs

7:49 PM

Unfortunately I can't touch Surge so it won't update

Unrelated String

lol

user

f

Ginger

I'll make a viewer once the Reader-Drawn Chapter is ready ~~or upon the death of the last descendant of King Charles the Third~~

Rydwolf Programs

Any plans on when that'll be?

I'm very eager to start on the final chapter and novelization

Ginger

once lyxal's done with his uni stuff he says he'll do his part

and then I'll do the final bit and it'll be ready

user

7:50 PM

Is the black person farting on the grey person here?

Bbrk24

Unrelated: is anyone besides Ginger doing pride pfps? I can’t exactly overlay a pride flag on my pfp and expect it to work

Rydwolf Programs

I will

user

@Bbrk24 Every company, for exactly thirty days :P

Ginger

@user farts aren't emitted by the belly button last time I checked

user

*except in certain countries

Rydwolf Programs

7:51 PM

I was confused at first why Ginger picked today of all days for the bi flag pfp before I realized it's june again already

Ginger

I regret saying that immediately

@RydwolfPrograms time keeps on slippin, slippin, slippin into the future

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger But when is the last time you checked?

user

@Ginger They come from around that area tho

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms yesterday

user

How did you check?

Ginger

7:51 PM

you don't want to know

Rydwolf Programs

U+0ca0_U+0ca0

user

Perhaps belly buttons can produce gas and yours is defective

@RydwolfPrograms ???

Ginger

citation-needed

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms brb gonna google something

user

brb, cutting a hole in my stomach so I can put in a pressurized gas tank

2

Bbrk24

7:53 PM

@user it’s the emoticon shopped into Ginger’s pfp, just referencing the codepoint instead of actually using the character

user

Oh

@user I hope no one I know irl ever finds my chat account here because they would immediately get me sent to a psych ward

Unrelated String

^

caird coinheringaahin g

I have openly shared my CGCC account with friends :P

user

Have you no shame?

caird coinheringaahin g

By which, I mean they know my username

Bbrk24

7:56 PM

bbrk24 is the username I use most everywhere

user

tbh I could tell people my username and they wouldn't be able to tell which user is me

caird coinheringaahin g

@user What do I have on my account to be ashamed of?

user

Pornography

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms IIRC lyxal said he'd be able to do it at some point this month

user

Jelly links

Ginger

7:57 PM

so 6-8 weeks, probably

caird coinheringaahin g

@Bbrk24 Yeah, I rocked up to the meta discussion discord (with my same username), asked for the mod role and Mith insta-recognised me :P

@user What porn?

Bbrk24

Actually my discord username is Beberka (for reasons I’ve shared here before)

Seggan

@Bbrk24 there's also a chapter being written (actually already written, waiting on lyxal to draw his part) by me ginger and lyxal

Ginger

@cairdcoinheringaahing Readable code

caird coinheringaahin g

I remember discussing porn in this room before, but that's it

Unrelated String

7:58 PM

i got within an inch of telling an irl about this but i only got as far as telling him i "occasionally" use cg&cc after he said he knows it exists (he mostly uses latex se)

caird coinheringaahin g

Besides, I've discussed much worse with friends

user

Yeah I was referencing that discussion

caird coinheringaahin g

Also, it doesn't help that an irl friend of mine introduced me to the site :P

user

Was a joke about how Jelly is basically porn because it's all unreadable

Bbrk24

y’know, it’s actually plausible that I may have more rep on PLDI than here by the time it goes public. There’s only like a 300 rep difference last I checked

Ginger

7:59 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing y'all're lucky, "Ginger"'s a pretty common name so it's taken on most of the services I use

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