The Nineteenth Byte - 2023-05-31 (page 1 of 2)

« first day (4505 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (117 days later) »

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Monopoly, But its in Creative Mode (sort of) koth, Generate a naïve isEven()

TIL the derivative of a parabola is a straight line and that's so cool

0

Q: Students in the Lunch Line

S students are waiting in line to get lunch. There are anywhere between 1 and 2000 students in line, today is a very busy day for lunch! One student can only see another student if a third student is not blocking them. This means, if one was to draw a line segment between student A and student B,...

fastest-algorithm algorithm

@Seggan Makes sense, a Parabola is x^2

3 hours later…

4:20 AM

@Ginger I just remembered where I've seen these before

they look like how they used to on the mobile app

y'all these buttons ain't anything new it's just straight up reusing assets :p

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Split a string on unnested commas Create the shortest program/function/whatever that splits an inputted string along un-nested commas. A comma is considered nested if it is either within parentheses, brackets, or braces. Input and output Output should be a list, without commas. The input may con...

I think I actually kinda like the new vote buttons

makes it clearer whether I've voted or not

4:52 AM

it's actually less clear on meta though

@lyxal the fact that only color indicates voting is really bad tho (it was also like that before tbf)

also incompatible with a lot of accessibility specs

@Bubbler seems about as clear as it is on main

hard to miss the orange filled circle

huh? it's very faint gray for me

user image

orange

wait that's because I use a dark mode extension

5:09 AM

user image

I saw that when I disabled it

that explains why the vote icons have always been orange despite the site theme being green :p

also the aliasing of the circle border is horrible

they killed the mobile app only to bring it back to desktop but worse

lol

aw the app keeps crashing now

all that effort to find the apk in my google drive for nothing :p

gonna have to charge up my old phone to see if it's just an android 13 thing

5:54 AM

dang they really actually did kill the app

like it doesn't even load content on a phone where it used to work

6:06 AM

voting arrows look weird; the update sucks

2 hours later…

7:38 AM

looks like both of you forgot to remove the focus shadow though

...no?

it was a fresh load on mobile

8:39 AM

-105

A: What is the network policy regarding AI Generated content?

We recently performed a set of analyses on the current approach to AI-generated content moderation. The conclusions of these analyses strongly indicate to us that AI-generated content is not being properly identified across the network, and that the potential for false-positives is very high. Thr...

WTF

8:54 AM

I mean, I can see that SE wants to pivot into AI and all that but yikes how the hell do you manage to conclude that the rate of false positives is "very high"

Sounds to me like they're putting stuff in place to ban ai that isn't theirs

The AI detectors are terrible but I talked to mods before and they already use multiple sources before issuing a suspension

Like "ai is bad but stop being so harsh on ai stuff you'll end up infringing on our investments into ai"

The best way to test if something is an AI is to tell it you've put it into a microwave. Most ais just say "noooo why would you do that sad face emoji" but humans would respond "ayo tf you mean"

Stack overflow traffic sharply dropped when chatGPT came out so I get why they are scared but just becoming the same thing isn't beneficial. There will just be 2 sources of incorrect information, one of which takes a bit longer to get a answer in

For everyone else equally infuriated by this decision, strike discussions have started up. — Zoe stands with Ukraine 13 hours ago

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Two mean logs Why are these logs being so mean to me!?! Oh right, the challenge. The mean of an operation \$\circ\$ on 2 variables \$x\$ and \$y\$ is the number \$x\circ n\$ such that \$y=(x\circ n)\circ n\$. In this challenge, the operation is \$\uparrow\$. The formula for the exponential mean o...

PlaceReporter99

@SandboxPosts yeah I haven’t written it well. But I hope you understand the concept.

Plus, my previous challenge put me in the top 0.99% this week!

9:10 AM

Your previous challenge was quite good

9:35 AM

Do we still have the option/ability to have MathJax disabled on the site, or is that something that's locked in now?

Why would we want that?

To stop people posting challenges that consist solely of mathematical notation, without offering a plain English description of the task or adding worked examples.

I don't think disabling mathjax is the solution

I for one find math notation much easier to read than sentances

@mousetail If not then we need a concerted community effort to discourage people posting challenges with MathJax only specs by commenting on them in the Sandbox and downvoting and/or closing them as unclear when they're posted to main. It's become far too prevalent lately.

Do we have a rule prohibiting this?

9:44 AM

I don't know. But, if we don't, we should. It's extremely frustrating.

I'd suggest making a meta post about it, it doesn't really bother me but if many others feel the same way we can make a policy

Dealing with far too may idiots in work this week; don't have the time nor brainspace to write something up. It'd probably fit best in our list of things to avoid if someone else wants to have a go.

10:04 AM

@Shaggy Other than breaking existing posts, it'd mean reverting to ugly Unicode+HTML hacks to approximate formulas.

10:17 AM

@mousetail i dont have enough rep to downvote on meta.se anymore because of all those -1s...

Ouch

All my rep on meta is from my "show of your hats" post during the winter bash

10:31 AM

-12

A: Discussion: Network policy regarding AI Generated content

Why don’t we ask ChatGPT for advice? If ChatGPT is generating answers, then ChatGPT will be the best at detecting the answers they made. Prompt: How can I tell if an answer on Stack Exchange was copied from ChatGPT? Determining whether an answer on Stack Exchange was copied from ChatGPT or any o...

Quite possibly the worst possible answer

ChatGPT is trained exclusively on data from before chatGPT was released so it's impossible for it to give good answers about itself

Yeah lol - not to mention that AI is absolutely not the solution to anything, let alone a problem caused by AI

The huggingface model used currently to detect AI posts is technically AI-derived tech but it's not that accurate

Though mods always check multiple sources

PlaceReporter99

10:55 AM

Did you post this answer, monkey?

-13

A: Discussion: Network policy regarding AI Generated content

Why don’t we ask ChatGPT for advice? If ChatGPT is generating answers, then ChatGPT will be the best at detecting the answers they made. Prompt: How can I tell if an answer on Stack Exchange was copied from ChatGPT? Determining whether an answer on Stack Exchange was copied from ChatGPT or any o...

→ 3 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

PlaceReporter99

@emanresuA move it back!

Please don't post random noise that takes up space

@mousetail all my rep is from my two SE-UI-change-reverting answers and also my "Chat is redirecting to Area 51 3: Redirect Harder" post

PlaceReporter99

@emanresuA then move those other messages to TN📦

11:04 AM

that wouldn't make them not noise

and we do not allow noise in either room

PlaceReporter99

@Ginger you mean you don't allow noise in the trash room?

wait, what?

what is TN📦

PlaceReporter99

♦ The Nineteenth Bakery
Trash for The Nineteenth Byte (commonly known as TN🍞)

@Ginger oh wait i mean TN🍞

Something very unexpected happened:

stackexchange.com/leagues/200/week/codegolf/2023-05-28/…

That's normal

PlaceReporter99

ok

11:17 AM

Nothing else of interest was posted this week so you have 0 competition

PlaceReporter99

lol

11:39 AM

Is this "series" just one question? Why is it a series?

12:17 PM

wow, I'm getting a lotta rep out of that vote button fixing script

PlaceReporter99

@mousetail probably the first question in that series

me whe I'm top 3% this year on MM despite doing almost nothing

@PlaceReporter99 There are no others that I can find though and the leaderboard "for the whole series" lists just that one question

12:31 PM

@ATaco well I don't know that, I barely know any calculus

Generally the derivative of x^b = b*x^(b-1)

PlaceReporter99

@mousetail I’m saying that it’s the first in the series and more will probably come out soon.

The question is 8 years old

PlaceReporter99

@ATaco that’s just one type of parabola

@mousetail oh…

@PlaceReporter99 All parabolas are the same

There is only One True Parabola

12:43 PM

@mousetail (with respect to x)

Yep, though with respect to b it's even more fun

PlaceReporter99

@mousetail according to cuemath.com: A parabola is a graph of a quadratic function.

d/dx e^x = e^x

I may or may not have written d(2^x)/dx = x2^(x-1) on a test

tbf it was like in the last five minutes and I didn't do half the questions by then

@PlaceReporter99 Yep, so all quadratic functions are similar

PlaceReporter99

12:44 PM

@RubenVerg it’s actually $2^x\ln2$

ik

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Infinitely spew corporate B.S. (Throwing a touch of shade at some recent decisions made by StackExchange over on Mother Meta) If you've ever read a company's announcement blog post or press release, you've likely thought to yourself "Wow, I couldn't understand a word of that!" This is the effect ...

@PlaceReporter99 A parabola of a given line and point which does not lie on said line is the set of all points that are equidistant to the point and the line

PlaceReporter99

$\frac d{dx} xe^x=xe^x+e^x$

@mousetail with respect to b it

would just be x

No

It would be ln(x)b^x

PlaceReporter99

12:53 PM

@mousetail remember, x, a and c are constant.

b is not

PlaceReporter99

@mousetail I meant b, not x.

I'm confused there are only 2 options and I have given the derivative for both

PlaceReporter99

Oh I thought you were talking about the quadratic polynomial for the parabola

0

Q: Adjacent Items Sorting

Given a list of sets of numbers like this: [[1], [0,2,3], [3,1], [2,3]] Output a single list of numbers such that 2 numbers A and B appear next to each other at least once if and only if B in l[a]. If A is in L[B] then B is guaranteed to be in L[A], in other words the relationship is symmetric. ...

code-golf array open-ended-function

1:05 PM

@mousetail arguably you could also ask d(b^x)/dy

so your options are xb^(x-1), b^x lnb, 0

1:17 PM

Correct

1:46 PM

Weird that codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/254081/rgb-to-hexadecimal is now getting answers after a long gap

And that I had to accept a different answer now that Vyxal is outgolfed.... after a long time

1:58 PM

Even more odd, I upvoted one of PlaceReporter's answers to my question. I wonder whether I should reverse it...

@UndoneStudios No, vote only for the quality of the answer not the person

I'd vote for Leopold II'd posts if they where high quality

^^

Technically, I voted because it was in Scratch, not because it was short or anything

quality is somewhat subjective here

You shouldn't vote based on length

Just on if it's original and well golfed

(also @UndoneStudios we generally don't accept answers anymore, for exactly that reason; when new answers get posted that might require the accepted one to be changed, but the author might not be available)

2:03 PM

→ 22 messages moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

→ 2 messages moved to Sandbox

thanks!

RO ninjaing :-)

kachow

@Ginger I agree, but I don't want new answerers to be wondering why an old accepted answer is still accepted; usually I am available in most cases

2:04 PM

@UndoneStudios but what if a pony falls from the sky and crushes you? :p

Though currently I might not be as I run a Python program to download all xkcds possible

I'm not going to stop you from accepting answers; just wanted to make sure you knew

Oh right

@Ginger sounds implausible

but never impossible

stranger things have happened here at TNB

2:05 PM

Death by falling pony is up by NaN% this year

4

(if you live in Florida make sure you're also watching for falling bales of cocaine)

NaN could also be -100

@Ginger I'm in UAE

NaN is not equal to -100

> could also be

Possible

In our case

No, -100 is not equal to NaN

2:07 PM

it isn't possible though; by definition for any number it is not equal to NaN because a number cannot not be a number

NaN technically means anything is possible, right?

no

No

Then what?

it means, wait for it, "not a number"

2:08 PM

It can indicate some kind of error during calculation

^

In this case it indicates division by 0

(personally I don't like returning NaN for things like division by 0, but that's an argument for another time)

Since there where no deaths by pony from the heavens last year and also none this year it's 0/0 which is NaN

The joke is ruined now it's explained :(

Wired: Ponys from heavens
Tired: Rods from gods
Expired: ICBMs

2:10 PM

@Ginger maybe an argument for PLD?

how do you know there were none? happened to my buddy eric last year

@Ginger what's an ICBM?

intercontinental ballistic missile

dammiy, noinja;d

@hyper-neutrino It was covered up by the illuminati so didn't appear in my dataset

2:10 PM

is a joke? Seriously

yawns hello world

:wave:

hello o/

ICBM's can be reality

ahoy

2:12 PM

like... ok, I don't wanna point fingers here

@UndoneStudios so can the underside of my boot but we don't discuss that typically :P

anyways how's everyone today?

funny thing is the majority of the time I hear the term ICBM it's talking about the ICBM gambit in chess :P

8

chaotic as usual?

@ThomasWard I'm downloading all xkcds today

535 seems to be burning my time

3:04 PM

Nevermind, I've bypassed it

PlaceReporter99

3:28 PM

@mousetail A FALLING PONY!?!

Breaking news: Death by going for a walk after shopping after code golf has risen by 100%

3:47 PM

100% implies it happened at least once last year

PlaceReporter99

@mousetail but 200% of 0 = 1

No, 1/0 is infinity

You don't calculate the number from the percentage, you calculate the percentage from the number

4:45 PM

0

A: "Hello, World!"

(,) 375 Bytes ((),()()()()()()()()()())(()(),(())(())(())(())(())(())(()))(,,,(()())()())(()()(),(()())(())(())(())())(,,,(()()()))(()()(),(()()())()()()()()()())(,,,(()()()))(,,,(()()()))(,,,(()()())()()())(,,,(())(())(())(())()()()())(,,,(())(())(())()())(,,,(()())(())()()()()()()())(,,,(()()()...

5:44 PM

> Making code
Should be fairly obvious

what is that language

> Running
Use the intepreter

really?!

and here I've been trying to run that program with my bathtub!

The code looks like old JS except for the fact that it has async

…the only async function call it has is await sleep(10)

Calling a language that looks like that fairly obvious is a bold move

if a language has an interpreter, but no documentation, do we allow it?

because that language's documentation is so bad as to be nonexistent

Yes, we also allow exploiting bugs in interpreters so I think that's basically the same thing

5:56 PM

what?

You can use undocumented features

oh

@mousetail chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/63610792#63610792 moment

Anyway what are we gonna do for the strike?

I guess we should turn off all our bots too

what?

For the strike

5:59 PM

what strike?

Smokey and most moderation bots are being turned off

did I miss a meeting?

WHAT

holllld on

We should probably do the same in solidarity

even though our bots are not that important

link please

discord.gg/UpHXq6BG

6:00 PM

I can't see that

Just grab the role

lemme clarify: I can't use Discord

Yea that's why I'm saying it here because I know rydwolf can't either and it will be their job

but I need more context

surely there's an announcement somewhere else or something

I mean there is nothing official yet

6:03 PM

so how do you know about it?

@mousetail Rydwolf has a discord account, he’s just not on the TNB server

Is he in the strike server?

no idea

I’m certainly not

why isn't this being planned on SE chat?

Because staff was censoring some of the discussion

6:04 PM

WHAT

ugh, I need more info

ask 'em if I should shut Vyxal Bot down :p

I'm not allowed to say much more

ಠ_ಠ

I guess I’ll join the server to see what it’s about

A lot of the major mods are involved, this isn't minory group

aaaaaaaaa

I want to help!

1 hour later…

7:16 PM

hey @RydwolfPrograms do you have any idea what all of the above stuff is about? (the "strike")

Rydwolf Programs

No clue

I'd like to know, because it sounds important, but I can't use Discord

caird coinheringaahin g

There's a general feeling (see this MSE post) that SE is failing the community. As a result, there are discussions about moderators (and other users) going on a moderation strike

wow, how tf did I miss that

I joined the server, and looked around. Still no clue.

7:19 PM

but yeah I agree with that MSE post

if SE decides to go full ahead with AI and such I'm going to seriously reconsider staying on this platform

I probably won't leave, because I really like the CGCC/TNB community and all of yall, but I'm definitely going to think about it

Rydwolf Programs

I think we've had bigger reasons to leave in the past and couldn't get it to happen at a big enough scale to matter. It's not a solution that I can see being effective or worthwhile.

so we're stuck here, on a platform with doubtful leadership and a history of making really bad decisions, and we have very little input as to what it'll do next

PlaceReporter99

I'm making a math-based programming language because I think math should be a programming language.

I didn't run for mod here, because of the Monica scandal and the need to "replace" the olds mods that quit over it. Now, I was just considering running for mod on PLDI, but then SE has to… FUBAR again.

Rydwolf Programs

Voting buttons and silly AI bullshit isn't nearly as big as The Incident was. If we couldn't scrape together the motivation at a large scale that we could then, no way we can now

Which, IMO, is good

I'd rather have one subpar community than two fractured ones

7:23 PM

but we can't just let them get away with it! d:

It isn't so much wanting to milk the content using AI that's the problem; it is the way the community is being treated in the process.

Charcoal's an invaluable resource; if they shut down, the chaos level on SO in particular will tick up quite a bit

Rydwolf Programs

Where exactly is this strike being planned?

Discord, for some reason

Rydwolf Programs

How long would it go on and who's communicating the conditions and stuff to SE?

@Ginger That's not much help:

user image

7:25 PM

@RydwolfPrograms You need the role to see the strike channel

Rydwolf Programs

Unless there's a clear and actionable set of demands this seems like it'll just be a bunch of people not doing a thing(TM)

Oh there will be demands

who knows

this whole thing seems a little dubious

They will probably freeze all chatrooms

I think that constitutes diamond abuse

Rydwolf Programs

7:28 PM

^

and besides it'd be trivial for SE to unfreeze them and strip the mods of their diamonds

it's like punching a monkey with its own fist

Rydwolf Programs

There will be plenty of people willing to take on the role of moderator if existing moderators do things like that

Wouldn't that accomplish exactly what they want?

Rydwolf Programs

It only hurts the community, not SE

SE'd get slaughtered in the court of public opinion of course, but that hasn't cause issues for them in the past

7:29 PM

It has though, they haven't fully recovered from the last time yet

not that I've seen

Rydwolf Programs

You weren't here before then tho

I was

Rydwolf Programs

Talking to Ginger

I was quite active on SO at the time

7:32 PM

fair, but they sure don't act like they care

The most amazing thing is that SE is going to utterly ignore this discussion, we won't hear even a beep from any staff member. During Monica case there was Yaakov to serve as bridge, but pretty sure he got tired of this and won't do that again. — Shadow The Spring Wizard 12 hours ago

I suppose we'll see if the strike pans out

It kinda has to because mods literally can't do their job even if they wanted to

PlaceReporter99

@RydwolfPrograms try copy pasting ™ next time

Rydwolf Programs

I have a keyboard shortcut for the Unicode symbol

But the lo-fi (TM) fits better

(it's AltGr+Shift+V on my custom layout)

I could probably shut down Vyxal Bot as an act of solidarity, but that wouldn't really accomplish anything besides pissing off Vyxal Inc.

@RydwolfPrograms unrelatedly, I can't believe I've been here for a year and a half

it feels like it's been less than that

Rydwolf Programs

NPSP would have a slightly bigger but still tiny effect

7:38 PM

yup

PlaceReporter99

Should I shut down Utility Bot for this reason?

I don't think we, personally, can do anything

Rydwolf Programs

Altho given how (bragging voice) redundant and robust my software is it may be difficult /s

3

besides cast downvotes and pray

@RydwolfPrograms yeah, I was about to note that it's actually harder for me to keep Vyxal Bot up than to shut it down q:

Only new posts seems to have a moderation function

7:41 PM

> [...] but we've had so many iterations of Stack Overflow Inc not caring all that much about the backbone that makes it successful to begin with, they're turning into anime story arcs at this point.

(source)

clearly what we need is a TVTropes page for SE

Rydwolf Programs

Fun fact: Two iterations of NPSP could actually run in parallel without double posting, with a minor modification

PlaceReporter99

@Ginger iterations? Give me the caller function NOW

wrong reply?

PlaceReporter99

Coding-related joke

not really all that funny

PlaceReporter99

7:43 PM

> but we've had so many iterations of…

Rydwolf Programs

But iteration doesn't imply recursion or any sort of function being called :p

PlaceReporter99

How about we DDOS so org

what

yes, DDOSing the site is clearly a proportionate and reasonable response

Rydwolf Programs

And also completely legal

and won't cause any issues for us

Rydwolf Programs

7:49 PM

I find it kind of ironic how hushed the talks about this strike are...I don't think the solution to SE making big decisions without involving the community is the mods and bot operators making big decisions without involving the community

^

@PlaceReporter99 I don't think you'll be able to

@RydwolfPrograms There are staff in the discord so it's not really secret

Rydwolf Programs

I hate Minecraft's use of ctrl for sprint because every time I open a page that uses WASD controls I accidentally close it

Unrelated String

nice

...relatable?????

Actually no wtf

Rydwolf Programs

7:51 PM

And worse I usually hold ctrl+w and close like every page, as I just did

Unrelated String

it's always weird hearing people who grew up on fpses complaining about mc having shift crouch ctrl sprint because they're used to it being the other way around
because it's the exact opposite for me :P

took ages to get used to shift sprint in drg

and had a couple odd incidents with the laser pointer

This has no value.

Incidents with the laser pointer are not that bad at least

Unrelated String

yeah lmao

PlaceReporter99

SO on companies house

Unrelated String

why can't every team game have spammable voice lines attached to the ping mechanism

7:55 PM

I really appreciate btw how modern games like DRG allow you to press shift to toggle sprint instead of having to strain your pinkie to keep it pressed the whole time

y'all're using Ctrl for sprint???

Unrelated String

oh shit do older games make you hold it

that sounds like ass

I've always double-tapped W

Unrelated String

same lol

but sometimes you need to use the actual sprint button

Oh I hate games that make double tap sprint

I feather the button a lot to walk more slowly and often do it by accident

Unrelated String

7:56 PM

at least for that new swimming mechanic they added like three years ago or whenever

i want to say you also need it for creative mode flying

oof

I dislike that sprinting can't be triggered whilst flying

Unrelated String

yeah i really don't know why you can't do it without ctrl

unless it's to make the aforementioned feathering possible :P

What I hate about risk of rain is you can sprint while flying but you don't actually go any faster but still can't use weapons

wait, Ctrl works while flying?!

Unrelated String

since it's harder to use crouch to reduce your speed

7:57 PM

are you SERIOUS

Unrelated String

you
didn't know this???????????

WHAT

how am I just learning about this now

Unrelated String

@mousetail amazing

I have evidently been living under a rock for the past 5 years

Unrelated String

~~not like it matters when you can just use snowballs that summon a ballistic horse that you auto-ride~~

« first day (4505 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (117 days later) »

Transcript for

May31

The Nineteenth Byte

General discussion for codegolf.stackexchange.com | Guidelines: ...

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile