The Nineteenth Byte

OldSandboxPosts

1:00 AM

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Draw any infinite fractal code-golfopen-ended-function

Rydwolf Programs

Only in here for a minute but: I see flag discourse. Please no flag discourse. We had a good thing going.

user

1:37 AM

We can't just ignore something forever because we reached a consensus once

New Posts

2:01 AM

0

Q: What is the ABSOLOUTE shortest way to write this code?

So I got kinda bored and was wondering if it was possible to make this code shorter without modifying anything except a file named coin.py... from random import*;c=['heads','tails'];print('u win'if choice(c)==input(' / '.join(c)+': ')else'u lose') Although still maintaining all its functionality &...

python

Bubbler

I just think *any* ruling regarding flags is a can of worms to newcomers.
flags are free -> C++ -DF=...
flags cost bytes -> why is this flag n bytes instead of m bytes?

And the mix of the two is just two cans of worms.

Bbrk24

2:20 AM

what

the question text doesn't make it any better

It has consciousness

Rydwolf Programs

4:01 AM

@user A consensus that with some discussion has continued to prevent arguing, make the flag users happy, and make most of the ardent flag-haters happy as well.

New users will always feel cheated by things we allow

People tried to ban GolfScript. People still complain about it to this day. The part of Vyxal that looks cheaty to new users isn't the j.

While I'd much prefer if flags weren't (ab)used in cheaty ways, our current (and very old) rules + some more recent discussion has made me realize it just...isn't a hill worth getting a papercut on

DLosc's question remains relevant

Jun 27, 2022 at 17:17, by DLosc

I dunno... anytime a question about scoring comes up, I keep coming back to, "Are we comparing scores across different languages or not?" And the answer always seems to be "No, definitely not. But also yes."

And I pretty firmly believe our current system works for both the yes and the no

Since the "no" is our official policy, and our official policy is to count flag combos as separate languages. So there's no conflict in the official policy; flag abuse isn't cheaty because it's just competing in a different category.

emanresu A

Agreed

Rydwolf Programs

Since the "yes" is "all in our heads" as golflang designers and language comparers, there's no conflict either, since we can mentally account for flags however we wish

There doesn't need to be any objective or standardized set of rules for something we do for entirely different reasons and with subjective criteria

emanresu A

If we have rules that constantly need to be updated and are under constant debate, we shouldn’t have those rules.

Rydwolf Programs

I don't necessarily agree with that as a general statement, but I think it's a good heuristic, and it works here

Flags will always be a moving goalpost

Even if you subtract cheaty flags, you can still mathematically smuggle information in

And as soon as you account for that, you're changing the scoring of every answer on the site

It's just like the logbytes thing. It doesn't work in edge cases, but it's good enough.

emanresu A

And attempting to account for edge cases would just make the problem worse.

Rydwolf Programs

4:13 AM

At the end of the day we're all here for fun. Rules should be in service of fun, and trying to elimitate any way to "cheat" would probably have a worse impact on our fun than leaving things how they are

7

Anyway I should really get some sleep, 'night everyone! o/

Dannyu NDos

Is it good to ask the complexity class of my challenge on Sandbox?

caird coinheringaahin g

@DannyuNDos If it's important to the challenge, sure

Given that we're having this conversation again, apparently, guess I'll repost my thoughts on it again:

Oct 4, 2021 at 2:04, by caird coinheringaahing

I did. I think DLosc makes a good point that we're framing it as an XY problem, and, in that context, I agree with them. However, I believe they're missing the point: flags are meaningless in the way I interact with the site. I interact with the site in 4 ways: 1) I post Jelly answers, aiming to either beat myself or other Jelly golfers (as HN is more than aware); 2) I post challenges, in a fruitless attempt to create a challenge that is, IMO, perfect; 3) I review, and watch /active, to quickly get rid of spam/VLQ and welcome new users; and 4) I chat, and try to keep the chaos of TNB under …

Sandbox Posts

4:41 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Manipulate integers to zero fastest-algorithm Objective Given an associative list of positive integers, decide whether they can be added, negated, or multiplied to yield a single zero. Each given number must be used exactly once. There is a taboo. Do not multiply zero to anything. Adding zero to ...

Dannyu NDos

There I go

The Garbage Collector

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