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12:04 AM
@emanresuA x=>10*17**x
wait no
that's not how numbers work
Oh wait the challenge is to output the nth screaming number?
Or, standard
Vyxal: \a*H
Literally repeat the letter a input times and to hexadecimal
Because who needs complicated base maths or exponents amiright?
12:08 AM
JS: g=function*(x=0){yield x=x*16+10;yield*g(x)}
Quite possibly the first time anyone's done the infinite list option in JS for hopefully obvious reasons :p
Jelly, 4 bytes: ⁵ẋḅ⁴ (Try It Online!)
no base 16 built-in rip
lambda x:int("A"*x,16) in python is probably the most straightforward, f=lambda x:f(x-1)*16+10if x else 0 works too, or you could do the following for the infinite version
while 1:print(x:=x*16+10)
@Bubbler Python: lambda n:eval("0x"+"A"*n) :P
Oh wait int exists
12:31 AM
Q: Anti-divisors of a number

BubblerGiven a positive integer n, output all of its anti-divisors in any order. From OEIS A006272: Anti-divisors are the numbers that do not divide a number by the largest possible margin. E.g. 20 has anti-divisors 3, 8 and 13. An alternative name for anti-divisor is unbiased non-divisors. In other w...

1:00 AM
Sandbox posts last active a week ago: The Code Golf Chess Invitational
1:18 AM
Well I'm smart
I changed the SSH port of the RTO server, but not the firewall settings
So now I have to walk all the way to the server to fix it :|
1:37 AM
@hyper-neutrino H is hexadecimal
Oh, I thought that was Vyxal :P
Vyxal, 4 bytes: \A*H
2 hours ago, by lyxal
Vyxal: \a*H
1 hour later…
3:14 AM
@NoHaxJustRadvylf is SOCK² working again?
Yep, not sure why it wasn't working at the end of last school year, but it's running smoothly again now.
oh ok, how do you use it in school?
It's a script that runs on my laptop, which tunnels everything through a domain name controlled by me, which I was able to get unblocked since I also use it for school stuff
It still has some limitations though. For some reason, whenever a large (or even faierly low) volume of blocked traffic has to be routed through the tunnel, it starts to get throttled, and pretty qucikly the connections start getting soft-closed immediately after opening (and no more data goes through them). I'm planning on doing some experimentation to figure out why this is and how to circumvent it, and if I can find a way, I might try to sell it to people at my school :p
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

badatgolfDivisor of a string Challenge Given a string \$S\$, a divisor of the string \$S\$ is when there exists a number \$a\$ so when we write the string \$a\$ times we get the string \$S\$. For example, the string abcd is a divisor of the string abcdabcd Your challenge is, given the string \$S\$, output...

4:15 AM
_ cy765c-x-x
Is my cat trying to hax me?
cat named back lol
4:42 AM
If I toss a fair coin repeatedly, is the expected first time I get more heads than tails 3?
The expected time is IIRC infinite
5:01 AM
given that you could always keep flipping tails, expected would be infinite yeah. Average time would be somewhere between 1 and 2?
How is average different from expected?
i guess i'm going by the definition of Average vs Expected time complexity, where expected is using the worst case input
Expected does not use the worst case input, worst case time complexity does
worst case is worst input + the worst random choices of the algorithm itself
expected is worst input + average algorithm choices, at least by what i remember
admittedly, the word "expected" doesn't really jive with that definition, so maybe i'm wrong
I haven't heard of such a distinction
5:12 AM
e.g bogosort worst case complexity would be infinite, expected would be n!
all i can find to back me up is one quora article, so i guess disregard all that
5:26 AM
anyway, the moral of the story is that the original question was phrased badly
From wikipedia:
> In probability theory, the expected value (also called expectation, expectancy, mathematical expectation, mean, average, or first moment)...
yup, probably should have used the probability definition rather than trying to crowbar in my misremembered complexity one
2 hours later…
7:36 AM
Perhaps LDW
7:52 AM
RIP, the SE app no longer works for push notifications. This might be the end of me using it :/
Morning all
@Bubbler there is different vocab for expected running time which is normally averaged over randomness in the algorithm and average case running time which is averaged over random inputs
ye true
8:15 AM
Does anyone here understand rust enough to tell what strategy is being used here? codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/250862/108721
I am guessing it's not obvious otherwise someone would have reimplemented it in another language already
But maybe it is to a rust reader?
I do rust but I have no idea what it does
except that it does implement some kind of strategy and it doesn't cheat
Thanks. The function get_order must determine which agent to choose
But I can't tell what values it is computing
8:31 AM
@Zionmyceliaadamancy really? It was working for me earlier today
How long shall I wait before posting codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25030/108721 ?
I worry it will be ignored while my other question is "live"
At least 6 more days - that'll make it a week of being sandboxed
@lyxal that sounds religious :)
It is better to wait more before posting similar themed questions
People get tired of something real quick
@Bubbler yes I thought so
8:36 AM
@graffe It's not religious - it's the standard recommended waiting time
@lyxal that still sounds religious :)
Sorry, I am just being silly
Nov 9, 2021 at 8:31, by Bubbler
We're well aware that sandbox feedback doesn't come often, so we recommend to leave there for at least one week and ask in chat multiple times
The sacred texts!
I do hope someone can work out what the leading answer is doing though
@lyxal :)
@lyxal can you read rust?
I sure can't
8:41 AM
Being able to read a language and being able to catch the intentions are two different things
I need a rust to English translator
I can mechanically translate for you but none of us will be able to understand that lol
@Bubbler that would be great! Yes please
Why do you feel we have no chance understanding it?
@lyxal It shows me notifications after I open the app, but doesn't buzz my phone or anything
That ping came through as a notification for me
Sounds like an iOS problem
8:48 AM
@graffe (actually I can't, I have work to do)
@Bubbler understood
ayo im top 1 for weekly rep ranking, not much of a flex but ill take it lmao
Nice :P
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Wheat WizardPolyglot quiz code-golfcops-and-robberspolyglot In this challenge as a cop you will choose two programming languages A and B, as well as a non-empty string S. You are then going to write 4 programs: A program which outputs exactly S when run in both A and B. A program which outputs S in A but n...

Posting later today.
Feedback would be appreciated.
@WheatWizard could you add an example?
9:17 AM
I'm back for an arbitrary amount of time
Holidays, Free time and Wifi don't usually go together
Especially holidays and free time
@mathcat hi back for an arbitrary amount of time, I'm lyxal
Nice to meet you.
@mathcat hello!
9:49 AM
@mathcat Aren't holidays basically entirely free time?
1 hour later…
10:55 AM
Not these kind of holidays :P
@mathcat hello chamtat
hi all
My holidays were 70% visiting relatives, 20% sleeping, 7% percent visiting stuff and 3% free time
Also wifi is really hard to get here, I always have to sneak off to my dad's bedroom and turn his mobile's hotspot on
11:19 AM
Understandable, but yikes
11:32 AM
Visiting relatives is the worst
Protip: See an awful crime happen, go into witness protection
No more relatives :p
That leaves too much to chance though
What you gotta do is get involved enough in organised crime and then snitch
—-And if the bad guys find you, you get a forever vacation with 100% sleep—-
@lyxal ah yeah good idea. Best become an underboss first
Exactly. It's guaranteed witsec
@user it's a win win. No more relatives, and the chance of book deals, movie rights and more!
@lyxal only problem is all your friends and family are gonna be like “yo tony it’s your favorite nephew can i get a job?” Goddamn nepotism. Ruining crime
Nepotism: The Mafia's only weakness
11:44 AM
@user that's easily fixed. Steal their limbs so they can't work at the limb stealing factory.
As a plus, you won’t get invited to family gatherings anymore
12:03 PM
Hey hey hey
I am currently very sick right now with some virus or something
but I have vowed to not let it stop me from LDW
actually lemme just
Your bot has a virus? Or do you, Ginger, have an actual virus?
Welcome to the fifth Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.
If it’s the latter hope you get well soon
my human body has a human virus
12:06 PM
it would be hilarious if the bot had an unknown virus with mild symptoms
they aint mild
like in an hour from now it just starts posting indonesian gambling spam
It’s a virus that causes self awareness, so the bot posts about having that self awareness virus
well I hereby decree ldw to have started
now lemme go drink some Virus Suppressing Fluid™ and cry internally
I was thinking about an APL except you don’t have operators and functions are first class. It’d be LTR and to pass a function to another function you’d use braces. Opinions?
Oh, and lists use [,]
12:10 PM
so no things like reduce?
You do have reduce
It’s just that it’s not a special operator, it’s just a function
that's an operator though isn't it?
It’d kinda not be an apl anymore tbh
so {+}/[1,2,3,4] for reduce?
Flip the operands but yes
And unary functions will be postfix because ltr
12:13 PM
how would something like work?
[1,2,3] {{-}⍨} 1 would be equivalent to 1 -⍨ 1 2 3?
@GingerBot lol, i thought it was 12 hours before so i didn't bother to look until now...
but i'm hopefully not too late
wait, are the messages from gingerbot auto-generated or from ginger?
from ginger
account access issues
what they really need to do at the unicode consortium is make a lowercase-i with an additional overdot
@lyxal he cant access his own?
12:20 PM
something about being locked out of a raspberry pi which has the og account
@GingerBot why is it again that you're a bot and not a human?
Maybe humans and bots are not so different after all
@mousetail well if there's one thing about bots is that they'll live forever, and that I have my short sad life left (and that's what they're counting on).
@lyxal Not the bots I build. Usually I give up on them rather quickly
And, 50+ rep bounty for non-trivial Hello World of Mario37(github.com/TvoozMagnificent/Mario37).
@mousetail lol, sounds real
12:23 PM
@mousetail the bots I'm thinking of really love to test
screw language design workshop, let's make a sick bot contest
@NobodyNeedsNames That was basically the idea behind this codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25031/91213
I would say multi-language koth's land up bad cuz (length) 100 is a little too much already for python but 100 is like a no-go for c++ (i guess) — Nobody Needs Names 28 secs ago
@NobodyNeedsNames Radiation hardened python is a lot longer though
well, i bet there's no c++ program (<100 char) that can intelligently destroy a python program like

#random stuff blahblah
1+1+1 # yay
def actual_function():input();print(1) #just a random 2nd letter
# more characters confusing

without using random (and without hardcoding obviously)
and the python program is going to destroy the c++ program unless there is a few blank lines up front
12:36 PM
A C program could easily defeat that, just remove the middle ( character
I can add more "(" characters in string literals and comments, sure :-)
I doubt C would be competetive but that's just because it's hard to radiation harden in the first place
The goal is to encourage people to use the languages that are good for the task
how long is the C program to print a character?
lets say c++
66 characters
Yea C++ couldn't compete but my goal isn't to make every language competetive
how'd you expect to take input, compute something sensible, and output it in about 40 characters? (let's not even think about radiation hardening)
12:38 PM
Writing a single character in C including main(){} is 20 characters in C
@mousetail if that's the case, I'll do a python koth instead
Nobody is stopping you
just advice
or you might want a more flexible bound
A flexible bound would break the challange
there is a huge advantage in just being as long as possible
Just put gigabytes of comments on each side
i mean
flexible as in
12:40 PM
There needs to be a limit and no way I can evaluate a fair limit for every language
If I allow any
different bounds for different programs
Wouldn't work
There is still a advantage to being long since you have more bytes to lose
e.g. 3 times the length a minimal hello world program would take
Seems really hard to enforce
allowing huge programs could incentivize sophisticated ways of picking characters to remove but that would shift things away from actually writing radiation-hardened code and probably also end up making the execution time limit way more relevant than it should be
12:42 PM
or, you can allow for a starting part and an ending part of an program that cannot be broken and must not make the program invincible
yeah there's no sensible way of automatically tailoring bounds by language lol
for instance, c++ languages can start with
#include <iostream>
int main() {

and doesn't count towards the byte count; but you can't remove any of those letters with a program
sounds hacky :P
(because else any language that needs something at the very front would fail instantly
theres way too many languages [citation needed] to come up with a brand new set of standard rules for them all jsut for one challenge
12:44 PM
@thejonymyster true kinds
kinda i mean
like think of how long the question itself would be if all the special cases were listed
i would say koth's shouldn't be multi-language esp. in this case
but Nobody is stopping you (no pun intended from my username)
It's meant to be a contest between languages
idk it could be interesting :P we should keep trying to come up with multi lang koths that work
(not that this cant be one)
@mousetail ok good then
12:46 PM
@mousetail insert that quote about how competition isnt between langs except yes it is
@thejonymyster You can override that for a individual challenge though right?
Languages are ranked separately is just the default
@lyxal I'm locked out of my main account for reasons
@mousetail oh absolutely, maybe i should actually grab the message instead of vaguely referencing it
Anyway, I'm interested to hear others opinions. Would this be a interesting multi lang KOTH or would it work better using only a single language
12:49 PM
@mousetail I would like to try it and see it fail
Jun 27 at 17:17, by DLosc
I dunno... anytime a question about scoring comes up, I keep coming back to, "Are we comparing scores across different languages or not?" And the answer always seems to be "No, definitely not. But also yes."
there lol
When is the busiest time of day here on a Thursday? Is that easy to find out?
By some coding cleverness :)
@NobodyNeedsNames A 112 bytes valid C solution:

main(i){char n[256];for(gets(&n);i<256;i++){if(n[i]==')'){printf("%s %c",i,n[i]);exit(0);}}printf("0 %c",n[0]);}

Allows for a 2:1 cruft to useful code ratio
i imagine parentheses are pretty vulnerable
is there a C solution that doesn't break when I remove the second letter?
12:55 PM
You can put a ton of parenthesis inside comments to confuse parsing code
true lol
@NobodyNeedsNames idk, but do you want to write an answer which can only break C answers :P
@NobodyNeedsNames Just put a comment at the start
if I remove the first letter, many similar languages will fail
i'd be curious to see how languages like a pear tree and incident would fare lol
@mousetail remove the first letter that is not /, space, newline, or tab
@thejonymyster lol
12:57 PM
/* ()))) main(i){*/main(i){/*char*/char n[256];/*)))*/for(gets(&n);i<256;i++){if(n[i]==')'){printf("%s %c",i,n[i]);exit(0);}}printf("0 %c",n[0]);}
@NobodyNeedsNames that would be a possible strategy yeah
what exactly are yall discussiing? I missed a bit
i think the challenge could work since you dont have to worry so much about being absolutely radiation hardened all over, only outsmarting the other programs :P
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

mousetailRadiation Hardening Koth king-of-the-hill radiation-hardening The goal of radiation hardening is to make a program still work after you remove a byte. However, what if a skilled competitor is purposefully trying to mess with you? In this game, each bot will take turns removing one character from ...

does it work? is

/ ())))...

valid syntax?
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

BubblerA better Hexagony template code-golf ascii-art hexagonal-grid We once made a Hexagony template without actually knowing it. But after a bit of experience with Hexagony, it becomes apparent that it is not enough; sometimes the source code is too short for the given hexagon, and you get totally une...


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