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8:00 AM
And that there may be other reasonable ways of defining errors for our purpose
 
s/there's no meta consensus/there's no meta consensus you could find/
There's always a possibility that e.g. caird can give you one
and saying 'error' without further specification is considered unclear
 
oh yeah redwolf is on vacation still
i was wonder what you were doing up at this hour
 
"vacation" :p
 
@AviFS You can always post a meta question though. It'll just be closed as dupe in the worst case
 
@hyper-neutrino I was going to do a recurring event, but we'd need 6 of them due to the scheduling rules we decided on, and that would complicate a lot of stuff
 
8:06 AM
@Bubbler Certainly, I was letting people know in case someone else would do it
Not familiar with the meta format, and don't particularly want to rn
 
@AviFS Don't wait for someone else to do it. Just write a question
There's no particular format for meta
 
and meta doesn't mess with rep
 
@hyper-neutrino by my clock it's 9:07
 
@Bubbler True, but it wasn't in the first multiple pages of searching "error" and other variants. So other people are unlikely to find it as well. It bodes badly
 
You can just ask anything, as long as it's about the site
 
8:08 AM
@StackMeter it's 4:08 here so it's 3:08 in texas and redwolf is never up that late, but in hawaii it's...
10:08 PM
 
I can write it up tomorrow, then
 
@hyper-neutrino What are you doing up as such an hour‽
 
CMC: return the first truthy element of a list
 
@Bubbler Defaults are good. Often people don't clarify. For instance, the error-on-odds challenge doesn't have anyone accusing them of being unclear, and they haven't defined anything
 
8:10 AM
idk how i manage to sleep so little ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i am tired when i wake up ofc but i am completely fine most of the day especially once it's later in the night
 
@lyxal Are we guaranteed there'll be one?
 
@lyxal Jelly, 2 bytes: o/
i think
 
@Adám yes
 
will test in a minute lmao
 
@lyxal APL: 1 (don't need the input)
 
8:11 AM
@lyxal d=>d.find(x=>x)
 
wait is 1 the only truthy number
 
no
 
(in APL)
 
idk then
 
Yes, and 0 is the only falsey one.
 
8:12 AM
@Adám I'm figuring he means to use 0 as falsy, everything else as truthy
 
Or did you mean to have it be language dependent @lyxal?
 
@AviFS If so, it'd be "first non-zero"
 
{(⍵~0)[1]} if first non-zero
 
@hyper-neutrino ⊃~∘0
 
8:13 AM
husk has a 2 byter
 
@Adám wow
 
I think would be an Ash one byter
 
@hyper-neutrino redwolf goes to sleep at 3pm?
 
whatsat do
 
@StackMeter ... AM
 
8:15 AM
lol
 
@RedwolfPrograms explainnnn
 
CMC: Non-negative integer list → index of first non-zero.
 
@Razetime It's just the find function
I forgot whether the default function it used was identity or not
 
@hyper-neutrino that makes more sense
 
@Adám ⊃⍸∘×
 
8:17 AM
Midnight is typically when I go to sleep, although being five hours off for a week is going to frick that up I think
 
@Razetime ⊃⍸
 
you didn't say list of booleans
 
Indeed. Try it.
 
huh
 
@Adám Python: for i in range(len(l)):if l[i];print(i)
 
8:18 AM
oh alright i get it
 
done that
 
You can't do if l[i];?
 
@Adám oh it's non-negative
 
@StackMeter if it weren't, your solution would be wrong and adam's would be correct...
@Adám lambda a:[i for i,e in enumerate(a)if e][0]
 
@StackMeter What happens if there are multiple truthies?
 
8:20 AM
also that's a snippet
 
oh it's specfically the first one
 
TḢ in Jelly
literally just "truthy indices => head"
 
Python snippet: for i in range(len(l)): if l[i];print(i);break
 
you should probably multiline codeblock that
 
Anything better than L=>L.map(x=>x?1:0).indexOf(1) in JS?
 
8:22 AM
ofc Jelly has a two-byter
it's just the way of things
 
@Adám findIndex
 
@hyper-neutrino Same as in APL, then.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Redwolf ProgramsGraph Altitude Take an array of nonnegative integers, such as [1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 4, 2, 0]. Then, draw that as a mountain where the integers represent altitude: x x x x x xx x You can optionally reverse the array, and you can use any printable non-whitespace character o...

 
^ Porbably a dupe
 
8:26 AM
@RedwolfPrograms So L=>L.findIndex(x=>x)?
 
well i almost just gave myself a heart attack
tried to upvote a comment and misclicked flag
ofc there are still a bunch more steps before actually flagging but still I am never sure what is undoable and what requires confirmation and i am always scared of misclicking or leaking things in screenshots
 
@RedwolfPrograms "reverse"?
@hyper-neutrino Same.
 
fun fact: refreshing a user profile requires confirmation, but suspending a user from chat does not, and the buttons are right next to each other (vertically)...
 
Yay, SE chat.
 
8:28 AM
@hyper-neutrino misclicks
 
@Adám Mirroring horizontablly
 
move/delete messages and delete room are also right on top of one another
 
@RedwolfPrograms How about flipping the output upside down, and/or transposing it?
 
fortunately delete room requires confirmation but a single accidental space bar hit and the room is gone
 
@Adám Not allowed
Maybe I'll just disallow reversing it
 
8:30 AM
@hyper-neutrino accidentaly clicks & presses spacebar
 
Looks great! Just one suggestion. There's a sentence intended to give a taste of what he have, and which could also serve as ideas for new posters.
> We host coding challenges, such as code golf, and related questions, such as code-golfing tips.
However, the first sentence is already:
> Welcome to Code Golf & Coding Challenges Stack Exchange!
Not to mention both code golf and coding challenges are in our name & logo. It'd be nice to use that sentence to give them other ideas and a broader sense of what we have to offer, and what they might have to offer us.
I'm purposely not including [tag:popularity-contests], [tag:code-bowling], [tag:busy-beaver], [tag:code-shuffleboard], [tag:duct-tape-coding] or [tag:obfuscation], since those are harder to do well, and so not ideal to recommend to newcomers. We might want a separate meta question to collect tags people want to recommend to newcomers?

Also, I'd replace the code-golfing tips example. They'll definitely see them quickly, and they're not really the core of our site. There's one tips per language, so it's not something they can hop onto. And while it is educational/helpful, it's moreso later o
blah blah blah blah
hmmm.... why'd that not work in the text?
 
multiline messages do not support markdown at all
 
What counts as multiline?
 
has multiple lines
 
@RedwolfPrograms Can we take 1-based integers instead?
 
8:32 AM
shift+enter anywhere
 
@Adám Sure, will clarify
 
@Razetime Ouch, I see. thanks
 
yeah basically if it contains newlines
you can turn them into fixed font / code block messages and that's it
also chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/1/sandbox if you want to play around with markdown
i advise against it though, for health and safety reasons
 
Chat markdown is so awful I feel like it was done on purpose
 
oh if you think SE code block formatting is stupid try figuring out how discord's works
 
8:34 AM
It's really terrible... I don't get it
 
nobody does
 
"I don't get it" is the unofficial motto of SE chat :p
5
 
hahaha
Well it's pretty impossible to read
 
@hyper-neutrino ? isnt it triple backticks
 
So at risk of annoying everyone, I'm going to repost and take up half the wall
@cairdcoinheringaahing Looks great! Just one suggestion. There's a sentence intended to give a taste of what he have, and which could also serve as ideas for new posters.
> We host coding challenges, such as code golf, and related questions, such as code-golfing tips.
However, the first sentence is already:
> Welcome to Code Golf & Coding Challenges Stack Exchange!
Not to mention both code golf and coding challenges are in our name & logo. It'd be nice to use that sentence to give them other ideas and a broader sense of what we have to offer, and what they might have to offer us.
I'm open for ideas, but I'm thinking to use "fun", diverse, not-immediately-obvious and underrepresented examples. Tags that will take them to corners of the site they might not find immediately. Things like , , & . (Any other ideas?)
I'm purposely not including , , , , or , since those are harder to do well, and so not ideal to recommend to newcomers. We might want a separate meta question to collect tags people want to recommend to newcomers?
---
Also, I'd replace the code-golfing tips example. They'll definitely see them quickly, and they're not really the core of our site. There's one tips per language, so it's not something they can hop onto. And while it is educational/helpful, it's moreso later on in the golfing career at which point they'll stumble across it. It's not so interesting at the start. This point may be more controversial, though.
 
8:36 AM
@hyper-neutrino ok wow stop make a challenge for this
 
@Adám mans really wants to to ⍉∘↑⌽⍤↑∘'X'¨
 
@AviFS Doesn't seem like the actual ask question page would be a good spot for that
 
(just to unbreak your wall :P)
 
@hyper-neutrino I use zero width spaces to mess with the backtick formatting
 
haha, thanks @hyper-neutrino
 
8:36 AM
Anyway gtg for tonight
 
it's the stupidest possible thing
 
@Razetime Upside down.
 
too generous, you are
 
I'm not sure about going too in-depth into tags in that box
it's not very large and too much info will make people just ignore it
 
@Adám i guess ⊖ instead of ⍉ then
 
8:37 AM
No.
 
@hyper-neutrino It's true, I got a bit overzealous
@RedwolfPrograms Right now we have:
 
hi
 
ah yeah that's not right
 
> Welcome to Code Golf & Coding Challenges Stack Exchange!
 
@ngn thank you so much!
 
8:39 AM
AND
> We host coding challenges, such as code golf, and related questions, such as code-golfing tips.
However, the first sentence is already:
I'm proposing just to change the second sentence, to list other examples of things we have
 
the new challenge has +3/0??
i mean, it's not a bad idea, but it literally has no wincon and was on 4/5 before i just closed it just now to avoid answers
 
@Razetime 12
 
To expose newcomers to things like KOTH and cops & robbers
 
I don't want to name any specific tags other than code-golf TBH
we could just not provide a "for example" and just say "we host [various coding challenges]" and just link that to our list of wincons
 
neat
 
8:42 AM
@hyper-neutrino Wait, we have a list of wincons?? Where?
I just searched through 8 pages of tags to find those...
 
it's linked in the dialog
er, wrong post. lemme find the actual list
 
@hyper-neutrino Why not? Surely we're more than just codegolf. And surely we want them to know that, broaden our scope, and not scare them off if golfing happens not to be their thing
 
because every other tag is harder to use properly and i don't want to increase low quality koth challenges
 
I mean, that's fair
I wonder what caird will think, or have you already vetoed?
 
13
A: The Tag Categorization Project

DoorknobWinning Criteria/Question Type Every question should have at least one of these tags. Please use this search query to find questions without one, and tag with the correct tag if the winning criterion is specified in the question. Currently (Jan. 9, 2021) there are none! If you think there needs t...

@AviFS well we'll have to wait for them to get online. i'd like their opinion though, because i don't think it's a good idea to give the impression that we only do code golf, but i neither want to list all the tags nor highlight one non-code-golf one specifically
so i'll wait for them to mention something and probably discuss directly with caird tmr too
 
8:48 AM
@hyper-neutrino That's way cool! I'm reading through every one right now!!
It's a great source of inspiration
@hyper-neutrino What about a link to that answer for [related questions]?
> We host coding challenges, such as code golf, and related questions, such as code-golfing tips.
@cairdcoinheringaahing ^
 
those aren't related questions - we could link it for [coding challenges], but related questions specifically refers to non-challenge on-topic questions
like [tips]
 
Also @hyper-neutrino, if the aim is not to include questions you don't recommend for newcomers, why include [tips]?
 
If anyone can outgolf me in my own lang; nah thats not possible codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/230482/103854
 
@hyper-neutrino Ah, good point. I mean what you just said then: [coding challenges]
 
because it's pretty much the only non-challenge tag and we also don't want to send the impression that non-challenge questions are strictly off-topic, because they aren't, and we've had confusion with that whole discussion in the past
@PyGamer0 hard to when you have no documentation
 
8:53 AM
@hyper-neutrino that is on my todo list :P
 
anyway, it's nearly 5 so i'm gonna go to sleep. we can discuss further together with caird tmr. o/
 
hi everyone
 
@hyper-neutrino That makes a lot of sense!
@hyper-neutrino Sounds good! Sleep well, I better also. I'm very happy with the conclusion being a link to objwincon under [coding challenges], by the way
 
@PyGamer0 your language has a fast development speed
which is nice
you might consider making a chat room for it here
 
9:14 AM
hi @ngn
 
ngn
hi @felipa
 
why do you need both P and o? Isn't P already the profit built up so far?
 
I'm working on a challenge where you have to print your source code as full names for each character (for example A => Latin Capital Letter A) - does anyone have a good source for these?
 
ngn
@felipa P is only within the current slice (l..r), o is for the whole input. but maybe they can be merged somehow..
 
@ngn oh I see. Maybe they can be merged as you say
@ngn more importantly, the code fails if you set the capacity to 2**20
@ngn capacity 51000 is the smallest capacity I have found that fails. Is that just more than the sum of the weights?
right.. the code fails if the capacity is more than the sum of the weights
 
ngn
9:25 AM
@felipa the original code (not in-place) fails for that too
 
@Ausername google search
you will get a lots of results
 
@ngn :(
 
I tried, couldn't find anything definitive
 
ngn
@felipa the test for that is O(n) so it wouldn't affect the overall O(n) if it's added as a special case
 
@ngn true. Is there a constant time test that can be in the code too?
 
9:27 AM
@Ausername maybe check this: unicode.org/charts/charindex.html
this might help
 
Thanks!
 
I mean at some point l takes an illegal value it seems
 
ngn
@felipa i'm not sure what you mean
 
@ngn the error is that l is out of range when being used as an index for x[l]
in a,b=x[l]
 
ngn
@felipa and that only happens when the capacity is larger than the sum of weights, right?
 
9:30 AM
@ngn I think so
more specifically it seems l = 100 and the length of x is 100
 
ngn
so, we can add if c > sum(w for p,w in x): return .. at the beginning of the function, without affecting its O( )
 
@Ausername welcome :-)
 
so it's an out by one problem it appears
@ngn true. I wonder if there is a cheaper fix
 
ngn
@felipa we can ask the challenge author to guarantee that this special case won't occur in the input :)
 
@ngn :)
how about if l == len(x) ...
would that do?
 
ngn
9:36 AM
@felipa most likely
 
@ngn I not feeling your confidence here :)
I am going to time the code and compare with the other version in the meantime
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

mathFrom Code Golf to Coding Challenges Related to this question. Your task is, to make a program that outputs Code Golf. If I delete the last character in your code, the program should output Coding Challenges. Rules Default Loopholes apply The program must take no, or an empty unused, input Traili...

 
^ probably dumb
 
U5221
 
@Ausername sorry, what?
 
9:39 AM
Nvm
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

A usernameFull name quine quine code-golf unicode Most Unicode characters have full names, for example ” is "RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK". You can find a useful reference here, just type in the character you want to find the full name of and look in the DESCRIPTION column. Your challenge is to write a prog...

 
^ I feel like it's a good idea with a bad implementation - help appreciated...
 
@ngn well that's weird. The in-place code is slightly slower!
how can that be?
 
ngn
@felipa you didn't ask for :)
 
@ngn I didn't :) But secretly that is what I wanted
can you see why your code would be slower than the code I gave you?
 
ngn
9:49 AM
@felipa i don't know. this is python. python is generally slow and it's hard to reason why one program is slower than another.
 
@ngn that is true.
I guess your code is easier to translate to cython
 
@PyGamer0 51AC8 doesn't seem to have a custom code-page (Or rather, any way to use anything other than UTF-8), which will mean that your programs are bigger than you've claimed them to be.
 
@ATaco RProgN Golflang when?
 
RProgN2 exists.
 
CMC Take an array of integers 1,..., 10. For each i in the array pick three integers uniformly at random (with replacement) from the array. Output the exact probability that the median of these three values equals i. (We say that that median of 2,2,1 is 2 . That is we always pick one of the three values)
 
9:53 AM
@ATaco oh i need to add that
need to read some code i suppose
 
It uses Windows-1251, and is pretty Janky.
It's got a pretty strange quine being «` . (Note the trailing space)
 
janky as compared to?
 
Don't worry, it's without a doubt Jankier than RProgN 1.
If you don't mind me asking, add it to what?
 
@ngn why don't you need to deal with the case that t = p/w? Is that from the dutch flag algorithm?
 
9:57 AM
Nice. I've had a few attempts at making Golf langs, but RProgN2 is my best attempt.
Although I've other esolangs.
 
ngn
@felipa yeah, the region with t==p/w remains in the middle, between i and j
 
@ngn cool
turns out the other solutions fail too if the capacity is high
well at least one of them
 
(Funky2 is my favourite of my esolangs so far)
 
@ATaco is there a tut for it
 
I’ve got funky2.a-ta.co but that’s incomplete
Writing function documentation is tiring
Also I need to update my cert
 
10:05 AM
@PyGamer0 Charcoal, 10 bytes: ←MC**‖O: S (actually the boring solution is also 10 bytes)
 
If I had an accept for every challenge I've won...
 
@Ausername finish the sentence! :)
 
I'd have 8.5k rep.
 
Has anybody noticed that Joe has the top 3 most voted questions which aren't community wiki?
 
is more rep better or worse?
I think it means you don't award enough bounties
whenever I write python code it's so tempting to pose a challenge to see how much faster it could be in another language
 
10:24 AM
I updated the Cert. Been a long time commin
 
10:47 AM
CMP: Worst language?
I wish Calvin's Hobbies was still active...
 
@Ausername perl? bash? tcl?
 
SQL maybe
or PHP
 

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