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2:01 PM
;(;)R*)♀*N▼ could work
Hm. If this is going to be a function inside of a map
Your code would work since it's in a temporary stack
I could just call the current fraction from the register
I like the alphabet challenges :(
@Fatalize Thank you!
One thing I've always wished I could do is to repeat macros with the dot operator. That way you could do: qqYP$xq24.
2:07 PM
I keep hitting *NOTHING*s on anarchy hmm
@Sp3000 I even misplaced it as the input
That is also neat :D
I'll keep it in mind
Alright here goes coding Bernoulli again :)
wtf is this
generator plz
@LeakyNun Wait, so the input is the string *NOTHING* rather than an empty input?
@Sp3000 yes, due to my mistake
but I highly suspect any language can make any use of it
maybe BF can
2:10 PM
So that's why things have been failing, riiight
@LeakyNun Yay for Act things returning generators instead of lists
@Mego Please
@Sp3000 which language are you using?
Or maybe we should call it "Act." so it's clearly an abbreviation
2 hours ago, by Leaky Nun
i'm going to call actually act from now on
2:11 PM
not golfy enough
@LeakyNun Done with Python, so I'm learning Vim
@Sp3000 ah, sorry then
Try RZ♂#;
And then V? :P
All these people learning Vim... once all these alphabet challenges are done, they're going to be stuck with a useless skill
2:13 PM
@Sherlock9 So 13 bytes
;_; it's not useless!
@NathanMerrill Then I'll make sure the alphabet challenges are never done :p
@LeakyNun ಠ_ಠ
There are other challenges vim is good at
I outgolfed Dennis in vim
2:16 PM
@muddyfish Your "Alphabet ripple" is not a duplicate of "Show tree rings age"
@LeakyNun To be fair, alphabet challenges can be interesting to golf depending on the language... it's just when there's too many of them at once and there's also the fact that they don't takeasmuchtimetocomeupwithbutgetlotsofvotesfromHNQmaybeI'mal‌​ittlejealous
@Sp3000 yes you're quite jealous
IMO GIFs are how I got 20k rep basically
I’m a fraud
Almost all of my rep network-wide comes from vim in one way or another
then can I have the rep @Lynn?
2:19 PM
And then like a tiny little fraction from python
Oh dang. I forgot that my best Bernoulli answer was recursive
@LeakyNun Do you know how to do recursive functions in Actually?
@Sherlock9 give me an example
just use n?
As I said before:
"I'm sick of alphabet challenges. Here's an alphabet challenge." lol +1 — TimmyD Aug 9 at 20:26
2:24 PM
from fractions import*
def b(m):
 while k<m:a=m-k;s+=Fraction(p*b(k))/-~a;p=p*a//-~k;k+=1
 return 1-s
As I said, just use n
Thanks a bunch!
Oh hang on a minute. It's s += p * b(k) / -~a
And the return is 1-s
@βετѧΛєҫαγ o____O
2:39 PM
I just got a +1 rep notification
Oh, an answer that I downvoted got deleted
Python roman numeral converter: from formatter import*;print AbstractFormatter(0).format_roman(0,input())
Q: The Alphabet Chromosome

βετѧ ΛєҫαγIntroduction Alphabet challenges are in our DNA, so let's show it. Challenge Print the following the text exactly: AaBbCc cCbBaA BbCcDd dDcCbB EeFfGg gGfFeE HhIiJj jJiIhH KkLlMm mMlLkK NnOoPp pPoOnN QqRrSs sSrRqQ TtUuVv vVuUtT WwXx ...

@LeakyNun So I'm using a different definition of Bernoulli: B(m) = sum of k (0 to m) { sum of v (0 to v) { (-1)^v * binom(k,v) * (v+1)^m / k+1 } }
I've got ;╖ur`;╝ur";0~ⁿ@╛█*@u╜@ⁿ*╛u/"£MΣ`MΣ but it's buggy
I think I've seen this bug before. Something about not summing right. Maybe the negative signs aren't working
2:52 PM
I think you're summing fractions?
Right now I'm starting with summing floats. Just to get those bugs out of the way
No idea
@El'endiaStarman Once I added the 10 day limit for searching for replies, surprisingly fast. 3 minutes at the most
Haha, wow. 10 days is probably far more than you need anyway.
I figured that any replies that were made 10 days later were probably messages that would screw things up anyways
(i.e replying to the first ever message and the like)
I could get it down to 7 but I have seen legitimate replies a week later
2:59 PM
@quartata Yes, but they're rare.
Q: The Permutation Pigeon-hole Principle

Nathan MerrillIn the game of sudoku, many players like to "pencil in" possible numbers that can go in each square: The above row can be represented as an array: [[1,2,9], [6], [5], [7], [1,2,9], [1,2,9], [3], [1,2,4], [8]] Now, notice that there is only 1 place where a 4 can go. This effectively lets us...

@LeakyNun what does "real 0m6.726s
user 0m6.695s
sys 0m0.021s" mean?
@NathanMerrill You haven't used TIO before :o
aka, what are those times measuring?
that's what the debug prints
3:09 PM
@LeakyNun Thanks anyway
you can turn it off
oh, is that on every answer?
didn't know
@DJMcMayhem Don't start a holy war.
I'm just not sure what "real" and "user" means
3:10 PM
@DJMcMayhem Both
I'm pretty sure "sys" is printing to the console
Well, I don't know either haha
@NathanMerrill That's always on, but they go to STDERR, the "debug" button hides STDERR
@DJMcMayhem Uhhhh I didn't realize people pronounced it the latter way...
3:11 PM
I'm debating whether or not I should be stringent on the runtime
I guess I've always socialized with people that pronounced it see-kwel?
Q: What do 'real', 'user' and 'sys' mean in the output of time(1)?

Iraimbilanja$ time foo real 0m0.003s user 0m0.000s sys 0m0.004s $ What do 'real', 'user' and 'sys' mean in the output of time? Which one is meaningful when benchmarking my app?

as I did say a couple of seconds, and your answers are taking 10 or so on false answers
in The 2nd Monitor, Jan 9 at 16:52, by Mat's Mug
@Mast es-kju-el or death
3:11 PM
@NathanMerrill Come on
Wow. Pronouncing the letters is winning. I didn't expect that
Do you have an implementation yourself? @NathanMerrill
I did all of those test cases by hand
3:13 PM
I'm pretty sure there's a faster one, but if I really wanted to enforce runtimes, I should have included a bigger test case
@NathanMerrill Then come up with an implementation before you complain
I'm more or less hitting myself over the head
nah, no need to now
I really debated it, but I actually quite enjoyed solving the test cases by hand
@LeakyNun also, why does your answer take input using :, but return output using ,
@NathanMerrill Ask @Fatalize
@LeakyNun er, I don't think your program works with "[[9:0:2:3:7]:[0:7:6:5]:[6:9:4:7]:[9:1:2:3:0:5]:[2:8:5:7:4:6]:[6:5:7:1]:[5:9:4]:‌​[5:9:3:8:1]:[5:0:6:4]:[0:7:2:1:3:4:8]]"
oh, maybe its TIO killing it
yeah, its exactly 1 minute both times I ran it
Can you come up with your implementation first?
3:24 PM
oh, I'm not holding you to times :)
@NathanMerrill Right, generating the cartesian product and then checking for all diferent took 0m54.239s
I didn't think we had a requirement to pre-solve challenges before they were posted. I know that I very rarely solve challenges I post. I swear I had read Helka post once that (he) almost never solves challenges before posting, but I can't seem to find it.
@TimmyD if it's phrased in such a way it sounds like homework, I think the OP should show to be able to solve it
That's a fair point.
@TimmyD I don't but its not really fair to post a time restriction if I can't prove its even possible
3:33 PM
Hmm. I missed that when I was first reading the chat log here. Yeah, that's more of a grey area. Kinda like requiring a certain complexity without a proof.
@NewMainPosts This problem is NP-complete, isn’t it?
Basically I just generated the cartesian product
Brachylog looks good at this :)
I need to learn brachylog
I still need to learn regular Prolog first. @v@
3:42 PM
@Lynn Nope
@Lynn I learnt Brachylog without knowing Prolog
(Well I do know some Prolog now but whatever)
I learned MATL without knowing anything about MATLAB
Still don't
@Lynn if you could find me a paper, that'd be great
I really tried to find any math materials on what I was talking about, but I apparently don't know the correct words :)
Actually I’m not sure if it’s even verifiable in polynomial time!!
Maybe I’m just dumb
Why isn't my 10-byte Jelly getting any upvote but my 21-byte Brachylog solution getting 4 upvotes :o
well, the only way to verify a solution is to actually perform the same operation on the solution
so, I'm pretty sure verifying and solving are the same time complexity
unless there's a better way to verify
3:52 PM
So I'm creating a prime algortihm
and there's a number which I tested up to
what should be the name of that variable?
yes that's exactly what i have now
but I think it's ugly af
3:57 PM
@NathanMerrill that loses the prime meaning
so? you're in the context of primality testing
let's say I still have other contexts in the same program
scoping -.-
3:58 PM
@BusinessCat I like that
How about max_tested
@BusinessCat nice, thanks
var max_texted = "ssup"
Should I get a TI-84 or TI-84+?
if b is an integer which can either be 0 or 1, which is faster?
if b:
if b==1:
4:07 PM
@βετѧΛєҫαγ Huh?
SEDE says your rep from questions is greater than your overall rep.
C:\Users\XXX>python -m timeit "b=10000;c=b+b"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0581 usec per loop

C:\Users\XXX>python -m timeit "b=10000;c=b*2"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0612 usec per loop

C:\Users\XXX>python -m timeit "b=10000;c=b<<1"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0683 usec per loop
some things are faster than others.
4:17 PM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ But it's weird that << is slowest because in theory it should be the fastest. At the circuit level it's just routing the wires one bit over.
@HelkaHomba it may be related to the arbitrary precision checking
(but then, so are others)
C:\Users\XXX>python -m timeit "b=10000;c=b*b"
10000000 loops, best of 3: 0.0621 usec per loop

C:\Users\XXX>python -m timeit "b=10000;c=b**2"
1000000 loops, best of 3: 0.259 usec per loop
Lesson learnt: don't think that using built-ins can optimize.
If input is a number, is taking it as a string allowed by default?
@DJMcMayhem depends on the challenge
@LeakyNun if b: would be ever so slightly faster. If clarity is important/useful, go with if b==1:. It's for this reason that I sometimes write if b == 0: instead of if not b: when the latter is confusing because of what b is. Hmm, that would be clearer with an example...
4:22 PM
@El'endiaStarman Why would if b be faster?
@LeakyNun why does it depend on the challenge? I mean by default
@LeakyNun Though frankly, if you're looking for speed boosts, learning C++ instead of trying to optimizing Python is probably a better time investment.
@LeakyNun Hmm, I guess they would be about the same since if b: would be implemented by evaluating b != 0.
@DJMcMayhem by default I think it is allowed?
@El'endiaStarman no type checking?
if b: is better because of duck typing
not because of speed performance
4:24 PM
@HelkaHomba why not C?
@DJMcMayhem I'd say so since many/most languages have to take input and then convert to integer. For full programs, that is.
@DJMcMayhem You think you don't :-P
@LeakyNun C works too
@LuisMendo Haha
@Dennis Could you please pull Brachylog?
4:26 PM
@HelkaHomba Unless you want it to run on a certain obscure platform, there's no reason to go with C over c++
@Fatalize Done.
@LeakyNun last_prime. I like the contradiction in it (prime mean "first" in Latin)
@Dennis Well that was quick, thanks
@LuisMendo Another contradiction is that this is the first_prime in the temporary array (extension)
@LeakyNun I usually name it limit.
4:27 PM
@El'endiaStarman but primes don't have limits
> Everybody to the limit. -Strongbad
Strong Bad is a mod on Academia SE
@Dennis another pull please? Fixed a dumb bug, sorry for that
@LeakyNun It seems to me like you're either checking a number for primality, in which case the limit is how big the factors can be (sqrt(p)), or you're getting a list of primes, in which case, the limit is how big the primes can be.
@Fatalize Are there bugs that are not dumb? :-P
4:31 PM
@LuisMendo those are called features
@Fatalize Haha. Good one
@El'endiaStarman Oh, I'm extending the prime list
@El'endiaStarman See the two functions here
@Fatalize Pulled again.
@Dennis thanks again
Hey, hey. Two people other than me were on the Internet in the early 2000s. :D
4:34 PM
That awkward moment when you prefer writing in vim but your co-worker uses a crappy IDE that inserts tabs and you use spaces in vim which screws with source control revision history...
Oh no. Spaces vs. tabs again... Let the battle begin!
He prefers spaces too, it's just that the editor is dumb
@TimmyD I know of Strong Bad because of my brothers, who are several years older than I am. :P
@DJMcMayhem Don't let Dennis read that "too"
4:37 PM
$ ''
Absolute path to '' is '/usr/sbin/', so running it may require superuser privileges (eg. root).
"He is one who also prefers spaces over tabs"?
@TimmyD When I was in middle school Homestar was my thing
@LeakyNun The first one is essentially Sieve of Eratosthenes, isn't it? At least, one where the upper bound expands as needed to get the desired number of primes.
@Dennis Well, what other user would have null privileges if not root?
@El'endiaStarman yes
then what should the name be?
4:39 PM
@LeakyNun Why wouldn't limit work? Or even upper_bound?
@El'endiaStarman because it's a global variable and it isn't really the limit or the upper_bound
if i generate primes up to 2*limit then it isn't the limit
@LeakyNun That's kinda a minor detail...
seriously. The problem here is scoping
Why the polls always 4/4
4/4 spaces winning
4:51 PM
@NathanMerrill You mean their use of global variables?
also, I realized that I don't like python's style guide for spacing between functions
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That's interesting and mildly sad at the same time. :P
on one of the coding horror posts he mentions the esolang whitespace
> I do not get why anyone would use spaces over tabs. I mean, why not just use Vim over Emacs?
@DJMcMayhem y u no force coworker to learn vim? D:
@Downgoat cause that's the best way to make someone hate vim
Using vim caused me to hate vim
Using vim caused be to hate emacs
5:12 PM
@Dennis it's not that he chose tabs, it's that the editor chose tabs
@DJMcMayhem That editor is a keeper. Why would an editor default to insert spaces when you press the tab key? I mean, you certainly wouldn't expect the spacebar to insert tabs...
Using Notepad caused me to love just about any (other) editor
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ s/b/m?
@Dennis ouch
@Dennis No, the editor is not a keeper. Flame wars and preferences aside, it's one of the worst editors I've used.
5:15 PM
which one is it?
TI code composer studio.
hm, won't use it then
@DJMcMayhem .__. Was something wrong with npp
I really hate TI. Their website is hideous, and they email my password to me in plain text.
OK, that's worse than spaces.
5:18 PM
@DJMcMayhem TI = Texas Instruments?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Silicon Valley
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ;_; y u do dis windows
@Dennis that is definitely worse than spaces, tabs, or even spaces and tabs.
@Downgoat yup
Only marginally worse than tabs and spaces.
@DJMcMayhem can't you set pre commit script to do find . -name '.goat' | xargs sed -i 's/\t/ /g'
5:22 PM
Woah. TIL that python2 allows spaces and tabs together
Python 2.7.11 (v2.7.11:6d1b6a68f775, Dec  5 2015, 20:40:30) [MSC v.1500 64 bit (
AMD64)] on win32
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> if 1:
...     print("t")
...         print("s")
@Downgoat no g. -1
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei fixed
@Dennis Pull Act please?
Now we are golfing even the languages' names :-)
@Downgoat That only finds files named .goat. Better that way, since you'd have whitespace issues otherwise.
5:23 PM
@Downgoat I do not have a single file with .goat and I do not have sed (on windows 7)
@Dennis cannot to late to esit
@LeakyNun Pulled.
Eleven astrick pls?
Only so we can say that it's actually Actually
@DJMcMayhem solution: install cygwin
5:25 PM
:/ not worth the effort
... how can u be windows dev and not use Cygwin
MSYS is more useful.
Cygwin is like a poor man's virtual machine.
Idk what MSYS is
I just use git bash
@DJMcMayhem That's MSYS.
5:28 PM
Best solution is to burn hard disk with windows and buy new hard disk to install ubuntu or other Linux distribution
It has sed btw.
@feersum oh cool. :D
@DJMcMayhem idk if it overwrites Windows tools with posix ones tho
I can't stand cygwin
Or just use WSL and do whatever you want actually using linux
5:29 PM
its slow and clunky
;_; what's wrong with it?
git bash or WSL is fine though
You don't have to install git on the windows side if you have WSL. because the latter is a full ubuntu server rootfs.
What's the mathy term for place? E.g. 1000s place, 100s place, 10s place etc.
I've noticed that git bash is faster than WSL though
5:31 PM
Not during my tests.
@DJMcMayhem digits?
But I run arch as the WSL system, so I can't talk about the ubuntu performance.
hm. I have a quite large repo, and when I do git status on WSL, it took long enough I had to force stop it
Hmm doesn't quite feel right
(it works fine for smaller repos)
5:32 PM
Is WSL like a vm?
Also, I'm currently finishing up alwsl. Should be stable in a few days.
@mınxomaτ do you use a different terminal when running WSL?
I don't really enjoy window's cmd terminal
@Dennis because spaces are fixed width...
alwsl install a slightly customized cmd config. But usually I use ConEmu
Which is sort of like terminator but for Windows.
But since alwsl has stable X support, I could just install (l)xterm / terminator within WSL and run it from there.
how does running a terminal from a terminal work?
5:41 PM
@NathanMerrill WSL is not a terminal.
right, but terminator is
terminator is a GUI X application. It just opens a window.
Not much different than running any GUI app on linux.
...which won't work on WSL, as I'm under the assumption that there's no window management
@NathanMerrill There is. You obviously need an X server.
@Dennis what was the silicon valley message in response to?
5:43 PM
@mınxomaτ I was under the impression that GNOME or other front ends weren't supported on WSL
not just that they weren't installed, but that it wasn't even possible
@NathanMerrill What? GNOME? Why would you need another DE? Windows already is a DE. You just need to start an X server, like XMing.
hmmm...maybe I don't understand the terminology
@NathanMerrill Let me show you. One sec...
I'm simply not sure how you can open a window without a DE
unless WSL has managed to get linux windows to open on the windows DE
@NathanMerrill Windows has it's own DE. You wouldn't see anything otherwise.
@NathanMerrill Yes exactly. An X server connects the linux calls to the DE. The only thing you need is an X server.
5:47 PM
so, I run an X server on windows, and then the linux process makes a call to the X server to open up a window?
woah, that's pretty cool
While WSL's ubuntu doesn't officially support this, it's enabled by default in alwsl.
on another note, I'm started git status -uno on a repo 10 minutes ago, and it still hasn't finished. Is there a way I can debug what's happening
bah, even the super-verbose isn't printing anything except at the start
user image
@NathanMerrill ^ demonstration
5:54 PM
arch on windows?
that is pretty cool
20 mins ago, by mınxomaτ
Also, I'm currently finishing up alwsl. Should be stable in a few days.
@mınxomaτ +1 for stayfocusd
Oh yeah
@DJMcMayhem That kind of backfired for me. Once I enabled that, I wasted even more time on trying to bypass it than I would have wasted on the blocked website.

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