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6:00 PM
@mınxomaτ hahaha I had to block PPCG and meta sites
@mınxomaτ I'm curious how the integration works between windows. Like, does sound work on the linux window? What about minimum/fixed sizes of windows? Notification flashing of a window?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Fascinating. But reading some of the comments on that makes me sad, like "The simple fact that they allowed "uncommented" code into an operating system's codebase is simply embarrassing." ... I didn't realize that Pinball was considered a key component of Windows' codebase /eyeroll
@NathanMerrill Answer: Pretty much everything X provides works. Sound is not an X feature, but let me test that.
6:06 PM
@NathanMerrill No, hardware devices are shielded from lxss (the WSL demon). There would most likely be a conflict of programs trying to access the same resource anyway. JACK would solve that, but I highly doubt that's ranking high on MS's feature list.
The only way I see to hack this together is writing a linux driver that pipes audio over some kind of local network and a client waiting on the windows side.
especially because they don't officially support windows yet
Heh. I just envisioned someone trying to write a time-sliced audio driver that allocated chunks of the audio queue to the two subsystems ... and the resultant hiss of sheer noise that would happen.
@NathanMerrill Well, the next hardware support is set to be GPU access. Which would be nice. Right now, it's a software OpenGL stack. But a good one, OpenGL tests (mesa) etc. run fine.
What's everyone's favorite key on their keyboard? I'd say ESC.
6:10 PM
bigger is clearly better
@HelkaHomba Based off of keycap wear, I'd have to say the right hand side of the spacebar.
and if you don't have a massive space bar, you're doing it wrong
Scroll lock
What does it even do
6:10 PM
@NathanMerrill wat a small spacebar is better
because smaller spacebar = more key = more macros = \o/
@NathanMerrill Size isn't everything
A: Sending audio through network

GillesWhat you're looking for is a sound server. These programs send sound over the network. Choices include JACK, NAS, Pulseaudio and more. Pulseaudio is the default audio system on Ubuntu and is widely available on Unix. JACK is widely available on desktop operating systems and prides itself on its ...

@TimmyD In the course of trying to figure out which of my keys are most worn, I've noticed that keys that I press with my right hand are generally more worn than those I press with my left hand. With the exception of the spacebar, which I press only with my left hand.
@mınxomaτ Interesting. I use DLNA for that sort of stuff, but that's an admittedly different technology vertical.
I think the most promising option is a pulseaudio device in WSL sending stuff to a Windows client, since PA has native Windows builds. Gonna try that...
6:16 PM
Hello from Mom's phone :I
Hand? Damn, I've just been banging my nose on the keyboard. Don't tell me there's a better way!
I use alt+32
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

manatworkLame template, powered by your language's own functions code-golf string This challenge is not about you doing the job, but you letting your language to do the job. In an imaginary language given a template string Hello {placeholder|upper|reverse|rot13} World! and a template variable place...

i use compose+s+p+a+c+e
6:19 PM
@mınxomaτ If you're doing that, you could at least do what Homer Simpson did and use a drinking bird
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Your "wat".
I use predictive text to identify where the words split
@TimmyD Actually that was a Simpsons reference, but to the orange juicer infomercial.
woah, my "git status" just finished
and it marked every file as modified
@mınxomaτ Oh yeah.
Interesting that it's pretty evenly split left-hand/right-hand.
6:24 PM
The domain name OOO (Triple O - Alphabet O) is a top-level domain (TLD) in the Domain Name System of the Internet. It was launched and is operated by Infibeam. == References... ==
@mınxomaτ how does networking work? It sounds like X server listens on a network port that linux then connects to. Does that mean that both systems are running on the same network?
Sixth paste in the "Hi, What's Your Name?" series.
Of course. The network device is the same.
X always runs as a server. E.g. for X over SSH.
I didn't realize that localhost still operated on the actual network device
As I said in my blog post, every process in WSL is run as an actual Windows process, manageable by the Task Manager etc. It's just called "picoprocess".
6:27 PM
God, I’m speedrunning Vim.
I thought it was kind of all magic that happened on the software side
To make my recording short enough.
@NathanMerrill There isn't really any difference between the linux and Windows host config.
On any system.
@NathanMerrill lxss isn't open source and won't ever be, but if you are interested in how it actually works, take a look at flinux.
@Lynn To make your recording short enough, you can also throw away frames.
I’m too lazy to edit GIFs.
6:32 PM
Hmm, another idea: Use an automatic keyin program.
You use a console emulator, right?
Welp, I have a word. :/
Hmm, AutoHotkey. :3
The non-legacy Windows console has keybindings for copy and past. No need to access the context menu.
Here we go. That is CMD, Powershell, git-bash, alwsl and flinux bash all running in a ConEmu console host on Windows 10.
Madness indeed.
6:47 PM
@mınxomaτ You've gone drunk with power and must be stopped for the good of humanity. ;-)
7:01 PM
Also, new UAC exploit is way too easy
Just tried it on the latest Windows 10 Build, still works.
does it require powershell?
It uses Powershell, but no. It works in pure batch, too.
Just a bit more tedious to write.
so basically, any program can bypass UAC
Yes. But what most people just don't want to understand is that UAC is not security feature.
You are supposed to detach the local user accounts from the local admin account. That will prompt you even if UAC is not active. But no one does that for convenience reasons.
There are a few dozen ways to bypass UAC. This one is special, because it doesn't write any files.
...how is UAC not a security feature? It (is supposed) to limit what can be run without the user's permission, correct?
7:08 PM
No it's not.
I'm really struggling to understand how that bypasses UAC.
That'd what AD permissions (and in 8.1+ smartscreen) are for. UAC is simply a prompt.
All it does is change the default open for .msc files to be whatever command you put in, rather than mmc.exe
@TimmyD Yes, and that file is run by a system demon with local admin privileges.
@Lynn How do you make those gifs?
7:10 PM
@TimmyD Here's a rundown of why it works: enigma0x3.net/2016/08/15/…
@mınxomaτ well, its not just a "notification service", because it does ask for permission
so I'm not sure how its not a security feature
> As Larry Osterman noted, UAC is not a security feature. It's a convenience feature that acts as a forcing function to get software developers to get their act together.
It's 3:14 AM and I have school tomorrow and I can't sleep.
7:15 PM
right, but if "always notify" is set, then it certainly is a boundary, right?
Because I've been sleeping after 5AM for so long
@mınxomaτ Oh good gravy. Why the hell is Event Viewer run as a high integrity process to start with?
@NathanMerrill It's a barrier, but not a security barrier.[1]
@TimmyD Probably a) to access high integrity keys and b) to not be nuked by amateur AV scanners every few seconds.
Sure, but then run it as admin if you need that. Event Viewer should default to read-only.
What is to Cartesian product as 1 is to integer product?
7:25 PM
@LeakyNun there's no identity up to equality
@xnor I don't get this
there doesn't exist a set T so that S x T = T with cartesian product because S x T is a list of pairs and so has a different type than T
however, if S is any singleton set, there's a bijection between S x T and T
unless S is the empty set
the empty set is not a singleton set
an empty list is still a list of pairs
7:28 PM
you're saying that A = {}; A x {1,2,3} != A?
@NathanMerrill when did I say that?
even though that {} x {1,2,3} = {}?
good catch, i meant "there doesn't exist a set S so that S x T = T with cartesian product for every T"
7:41 PM
@DJMcMayhem They broke :h<_↵ in Vim 8??
@Lynn How do you submit Vim answers to anagol?
Use raw bytes (0x1B for Esc, 0x01 for Ctrl-A…). Press ZZ at the end
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Luis MendoExploded view of a string code-golf string Don't you love those exploded-view diagrams in which a machine or object is taken apart into its smallest pieces? Let's do that to a string! Challenge Write a program or function that Takes as input a string formed by printable ASCII characters...

Typical, I post the only badly received alphabet challenge XD
I guess it's all over now
@βετѧΛєҫαγ because it isn't easy
7:49 PM
@Lynn I'm not using vim 8 (I don't think it's out yet) I'm on 7.4.2066
Gvim windows, if that matters at all
Ooof. What’s in :help at_t? I don’t have it
Sadly no other length-2 infix of v_b_<_example takes you to that example ;-;
@βετѧΛєҫαγ It could possibly be the fact that you duplicated the BbCc, though I doubt that's the main reason. Otherwise, I dunno.
I figured it out.
@Lynn it's this plugin
Maybe you can disable plugins?
7:52 PM
-u NONE fixes it
Haha facepalm
An otherwise fantastic plugin
If the Cantor set is the end result, then what is this image?
Cumulative Cantor set?
@mınxomaτ would you mind pinging me when alwsl is ready?
@NathanMerrill Sure.
thanks :)
@LeakyNun Possibly "Cantor set series" or something like that.
8:04 PM
@El'endiaStarman but the Cantor set is specifically the end result
@LeakyNun Yes, I read what you said.
This image is so common yet it has no name
"An ineffective skyscraper"
first few steps of creating a 0d fractal?
it isn't 0d
8:16 PM
how many dimensions does the sierpinski pyramid have?
3? 2? 1?
hey @Dennis there seems to be a bug in the try it online S.I.L.O.S interrpeter
each readIO call should return the next integer from the nextLine on stdin
Although it can extend itself to any arbitrary number of N dimensions greater than or equal to two
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei 2
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei Dimensions of fractals don't work that way.
I'm an idiot
@LeakyNun yeah fractions
So the sierpenski triangle is a one diemensional fractal?
8:19 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala no
1.5 at best
The S triangle is log(3)/log(2)
The pyramid is log(4)/log(2) = 2
ok irrational dimension numbers
I am unqualified for this conversation lol
@LeakyNun Well most images of fractals are just some point of an iteration where the limit of that iteration would produce dthe actual fractal=)
8:22 PM
@LeakyNun is the castor set 1d at the end?
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei The Hausdorff dimension of the Cantor set is equal to ln(2)/ln(3) ≈ 0.631.
so 0d was a good estimation :p
relevant xkcd
@RohanJhunjhunwala Not sure how to fix that.
@Dennis how do you pass stdin to programs?
8:28 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala -100
@RohanJhunjhunwala Yeah, all finite numbers are very small.
@flawr can you write a "small" number for me?
@flawr I want one googol zeros on a white board
@Dennis I perhaps could slap in a patch where when the interpreter is run through TIO it will receive the stdin as the command line arguments, and work from there.
@RohanJhunjhunwala By piping. That might create problems if the interpreter reopens STDIN for each prompt. TIO isn't meant to run interactive programs.
I have no idea how to do my own challenge in GolfScript.
@Dennis ok one second, let me research piping, I never really understood the concept
8:31 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala provide me a 10^150 km^2 whiteboard and enough time, i'll write one gogol zeroes and there will be trillions of empty ly^2s
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei I will give you such a whiteboard if you can write the zeros for me by tomorrow.
@RohanJhunjhunwala kk
@Dennis can you pass the input as command line arguments to my interpreter? i.e make the arguments look like this
fileName lineOneOfStdin lineTwofStdin lineThreeOfStdin?
I can trivially modify the interpreter to work that way
@ReleasingHeliumNuclei How about the chalk?
8:38 PM
you use chalk on a whiteboard? oO
@NathanMerrill haha, a true mathematician never touches these filthy markers
but yes, I was mixing up white- and blackboards
You know, I have a black and white colour blindness.
@RohanJhunjhunwala why not just take input through command line args then? That's what jelly does
woah, everything's just an equal-brightness chromatic mess?
@DJMcMayhem I could do that. I prefer input to be in the box marked "input" for clarity, but that still works, Input as CLA is another option I can work with. The issue is that SIL was designed to be an interactive language, so some modifications have to be made to make it compatible with TIO.
Language design question: is it a good idea to deduce the types of function parameters?
8:46 PM
@NathanMerrill Ew that would be aweful.
I mean, on one hand, it makes writing function definitions easier. However, on the other hand, functions are your API. Its a good idea to have well-defined parameters to any API, as you rarely want to change it
i will bring my own markers
@NathanMerrill persolnally I like strongly typing a language to make clear what you work with at runtime
But a python fan will say otherwise, its all a matter of preference
the question isn't of strongly typing, is basically whether you allow "auto" in function parameters
8:47 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala Using CLAs seems cleaner. Anyway, there are ways to read a line of input in Java. CJam does it.
aka, let the compiler figure out what the type is
@Dennis is the new java.util.Scanner(System.in).nextInt (or .nextLine)(); method not the write way?
@NathanMerrill I think it is a good idea to explicitly write down the types. Deducing can perhaps result in abiguity, if you e.g. have typeclasses like in Haskell.
8:49 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala I don't know how CJam does it. You'd have to look into the source code.
doFooBar(ParamTypeA a, ParamTypeB b)
well, it looks like everybody agrees with me. I was expecting more people to not want to write their types
Can base conversion be done in sub-linear time?
oh goody a source forge repository
Not going there :(
@NathanMerrill You were talking about language design, not about what I want to do or what I actually do=)
8:53 PM
@Dennis ok I'll push out a modification which will allow reading of CLA. Is it ok if a ping you when I'm done.
@LeakyNun I highly doubt it. Cause you have to look at every digit
@DJMcMayhem I see, thanks
9:10 PM
@RohanJhunjhunwala lel don't mention that to adsitu
9:25 PM
Q: Find the minimum and maximum integers in an array, without using builtins

Dmitry KudriavtsevChallenge Given an array of integers, received from stdin, function arguments, program arguments, or some other method: Output only the minimum and maximum numbers in the array, through a return value, stdout, or other fitting methods. Example session > minmax( {0, 15, 2, 3, 7, 18, -2, 9, 6, ...

Q: Create an unlimited counterstring

Thomas WellerA counterstring is some sort of self-describing test data that is used in software testing. Not sure it was actually invented by James Bach, but I know it from there. The idea is as follows: the test data contains many asterisk (*). The number in front of the asterisk tells you how long the test...

9:38 PM
ugh, maybe I should have disallowed sorting
@DmitryKudriavtsev Welcome to PPCG, consider using the sandbox.
> welcome to ppcg
I've beenon here for months
I would have personally allowed sorting
it does make answers easier, but disallowing sorting definitely makes the challenge more of an X without Y
why? It's boring and I want creative soltuions
define creative
you want a for loop?
9:43 PM
they aren't getting more creative than sorting and taking the first and last
ok, this is good enough I guess
if you disallow that too you just get people looping over it, keeping track of the minimum and maximum. that's boring.
My reference implementation is a for looop
one could also fold pair-wise minimum or maximum over the list, but you've disallow min/max built-ins, so...
@mınxomaτ How did you do that?
9:44 PM
Man, I wonder how creative solutions could have been with min/max built-ins...
@DmitryKudriavtsev How did I do what?
it's third in testar list
the star list**
4 hours ago, by mınxomaτ
Also, I'm currently finishing up alwsl. Should be stable in a few days.
@RohanJhunjhunwala Sure.
@El'endiaStarman puts v.min;puts v.max
9:46 PM
MinMax in Mathematica, actually...
Why yaourt??? Pacaur is objectively better
@DmitryKudriavtsev That'll only work in a few languages at most.
@El'endiaStarman True.
@mınxomaτ Seriously, why yaourt?
@MartinEnder You know, we should compile a list of uncommon but useful-for-golfing functions in Mathematica...
It generally helps to give people the freedom to accomplish the core task of a challenge in any way they want.
9:48 PM
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΨΠʹ I'll make the thing
@DmitryKudriavtsev can you address Leaky Nun's comment? you're already getting answers making different assumptions about that.
It's actually a lot harder in V than it should be: v.tryitonline.net/…
@DmitryKudriavtsev it usually helps to address comments in the main post. comments aren't meant to be permanent and moreover I wouldn't expect every participant to read the comments. people will assume that all the rules and edge cases are found in the challenge body.
OK, I'll update the post.
9:57 PM
I suppose I could do :2,$-1dn but that's longer and boring
As a consequence it is 5:57AM and I never slept and I still have to go to school...
wow, lol
@LeakyNun Don't take a nap tomorrow. Hopefully that'll help you go to sleep earlier.
@El'endiaStarman I'd probably just sleep in class
@DJMcMayhem :sort doesn't have a short version?
10:00 PM
Q: Pokemon GO Evolution Cost Calculator

Demyx97Tired of always wondering how many more Pokémon you need to catch to get those high-tier evolutions? Wonder no more! Now you will write a complete program or function to calculate it for you! The Challenge: As input, your program will receive a list of the costs in candy to evolve a Pokémon to ...

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Oh hey, there's "sor". Thanks!
I've been meaning to add a shortcut for it though
You wanna post that? I've been waiting for sometime else to do V, and I think it's a little bit boring so idk if I will.
give me a sec
Gah. Today's theme for challenges is "use the frickin Sandbox"
10:07 PM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Yay! Now see if you can explain it. :P
give me a mo
playing tf2
A: Find the minimum and maximum integers in an array, without using builtins

Easterly IrkV, 12 bytes :sor ò2Gjkd Try it online! Credit to DJMcMayhem for this.

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Eamon OlivePlanting Sugarcane In the game Minecraft the crop sugarcane can only be planted on a block next to a water source block. Task Given a area what is the most efficient way to place water such that every tile in the area is next to a water block. That is how do you place water to maximize the am...

@Mego Bahaha, indeed...
I've said it on 3 out of the 5 newest challenges
10:09 PM
where are docs @DJMcMayhem
Make that 4/5
@Mego Vote to Close as a dupe from yesterday.
@flawr Vote to reopen and feature it because it constantly needs to be said
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ there's a little bit on GH wiki
10:11 PM
Other than that, just vim
I really don't know what more we can do to encourage new users to use the Sandbox, other than downvoting their problematic challenges and leaving "use the Sandbox please" comments.
@DJMcMayhem ó goes to end if no closing ó?
@Mego I think that is pretty much all we can and should do. New users will always need to be educated on the fact that the Sandbox exists and should be used.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ that's undocumented, but yes. But what does "d" do?
10:14 PM
That's actually a relatively new feature that I'm very proud of
where do you keep the command codes?
:/ i don't know vimscript very well
I'm I the only one that thinks the pokemon go challenge is trivial (and MUST be a dupe of something!)
A: Produce the number 2014 without any numbers in your source code

Leaky NunC (gcc 5.3.1), 49 bytes main(a){printf("%d",(++a<<(a<<a|a))-(a<<a+a)-a);} Undefined behaviours. Specifically, use this compiler (languages are defined by implementation). Without undefined behaviour (which would work on all compilers), 51 bytes main(a){a++;printf("%d",(a<<(a<<a|a))-(a<<a+...

Non-halting programs are dangerous to online interpreters. — Leaky Nun 50 mins ago
This shouldn’t matter, IMO…?
CMC: given positive integer n, output at least how many distinct powers of 2 are required to represent n, using addition and subtraction.
10:18 PM
Just don’t run your program in an online interpreter. Problem solved.
Or use a sensible online interpreter like TIO that kills the program after 100 KB of output.
@Dennis I thought TIO doesn't output until the program is over
I actually had to use TIO to generate 27 k z's for my java submission
Nope, output is in fact incremental.
For example, 2014 can be represented as 2048 - 32 - 2, which requires 3 powers of 2
10:20 PM
(but that was thankfully less than 100k output)
@Dennis huh. Til. But input is not?
How would incremental input work?
Idk, I don't know anything about the backend
Too bad incremental output is impossible for V
no love for my cmc
Isn't that just the number of 1 bits?
10:24 PM
@LeakyNun lambda n:n != 0
@Dennis no, because 2048 - 32 - 2 = 2014
Ah subtraction. Nevermind.
Better, 1 + 1 + 1 ... + 1 = 2014
@LeakyNun examples pls :3
@Downgoat 2048 - 32 - 2 = 2014
so 2014 -> 3
because I used 3 powers of 2
10:25 PM
oh ok
@feersum I said "at least"
so like 2^n not n^2
@Downgoat when did "powers of 2" mean n^2 ?
good question
@Downgoat is a second power, not a power of 2.
10:27 PM
@LeakyNun I don't know what you mean by that. I don't see the words "at least" in your challenge.
Oh I see it now!
But it still makes no sense.
@feersum then read it again until you find it
well you cant do 2014 with two powers of 2
so you need at least three
The words "at least" don't make grammatical sense there to me.
@Dennis golfier: "a square"
Anyway, I made 2014 using only one distinct power of 2.
So I don't see how that isn't less than 3.
holy cow, your expression does not consist of distinct powers of 2
now get over semantics
10:29 PM
Maybe what you meant is to remove "distinct" ?
i meant unique
as in you cant use a power of 2 more than once
I don't think using a power of 2 more than once would even be helpful.
If you're trying to minimize the total number of terms.
i dont care, just do it alright
@LeakyNun That doesn't highlight the difference though.
@Dennis on mobile, which message are you referring to?
10:36 PM
Mathematica: (a=#~IntegerDigits~2;Min[Tr[a],1+Tr[1-a]])& (Disclaimer: could be totally wrong)
@LeakyNun Square vs second power.
can answers still be non-competing on questions that scored on a "per-language" basis?
@Dennis how do permalinks work on TIO?
Yep, it's totally wrong.
I know this may seem silly, but if you are low on space then can't permalinks simlply encode a compressed version of the source right into the url?
10:38 PM
@Dennis no me importa, es mas golfy
@RohanJhunjhunwala That's what I'm doing atm.
@LeakyNun I hope you you aren't responsible for making medical equipment. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therac-25
@Dennis ok, my bad
@RohanJhunjhunwala you too, huh? I thought I was being original suggesting that too ;)
What?? Mobile chat doesn't have a starboard? How am I supposed to tell if I'm saying the right things?
10:45 PM
@Dennis any algorithm?
@trichoplax Ikr? A constant annoyance, having to navigate to the starred page.
@Dennis this may be another silly suggestion, but does the algorithm for compression depend on the language used. For example Jelly has a one byte per character code page (even though the utf-8 may be more than one byte). Certain languages only ascii characters, so you could only store 7 bits of entropy per character.
I just switched to desktop mode. Now I can read the starboard by holding the mobile screen against my eye
I took the starbait. You got a star (only so you can test the starboard)
I can see it :)
10:49 PM
I can read chat fairly well in landscape mode, and see more than one entry on the starboard in portrait mode.
@LeakyNun Probably completely wrong, but f=lambda n:n and(n%2and-~f((n+n%4)/4)or f(n/2))
@Sp3000 btw i PR'd some optimizations, you might want to see
does it give 3 for 2014?
Also not sure if correct: f=lambda n:bin(n^3*n).count('1')
(These both give 3 for 2014 and seem to be correct for the first 100 results - fyi I'm lazy and ripping off A007302, assuming that's the right sequence)

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