The Nineteenth Byte

I think we can make those typedefs on one line

7:12 AM

ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous

Woah the unit tests are 150 lines. Let's make that 10

Anonymous

@AlexA. What do you mean?

Anonymous

I guess I should make some unit tests at some point

7:14 AM

strings are rad

@feersum Usually when someone makes a commit and the repo is hosted on GitHub, the person's GitHub avatar will appear next to their name in the commit. If it's greyed out and unclickable then it means it isn't associated with your account. So you can make changes to the repo and whatever but GitHub sees you as a different person than your account.

Does that make sense or am I rambling?

@AlexA. 7/10

Anonymous

@feersum In your account settings, make sure the email you use with your Git client is associated with your GitHub account

I see what you mean.

What is the file extension for GolfScript? CJam?

7:16 AM

It still displays my name and there is always a link to it because I'm the repository owner, so it doesn't seem to be a real problem.

@phase I think it's .cjam for CJam.

@feersum No, but it'd be weird if you were to contribute to someone else's project.

Anonymous

@phase Your interpreter's source code typically should not look like it was written in your language

@Mego It's like a challenge in itself

Anonymous

Yeah I'm never contributing to the interpreter side of your project

Is there an easy way to check to see if you answered a question on PPCG?

7:18 AM

I'm tempted to open an issue that says "please ungolf your interpreter"

@phase Go to your profile and look under "Answers"

@AlexA. oh yeah, that's kinda smart :P

You've answered 24 questions.

Anonymous

Hey Alex, on a scale of o.c to a children's book, how readable is Seriously's source code?

Anonymous

(dev branch is probably strangely more readable than master right now)

Using Python is cheating.

Anonymous

7:20 AM

Using Python is smart

And slow.

Python is slow but it's object, string, and everything else manipulation are on point

Anonymous

I plan on converting it to Cython in the future

Anonymous

Also pypy is fast

@Mego Let's see... Decent use of whitespace... Reasonably descriptive variable names... Seems pretty readable to me.

Anonymous

7:21 AM

Python is readable unless you make monstrosities like this

Yeah okay I revoke my statement.

10 mins ago, by Mego

stop golfing your interpreter

Seems obvious enough.

Why would you use a dict though?

You could use an array.

Anonymous

Because some commands aren't implemented yet

Anonymous

And having the explicit ordinal makes it much more readable

@Mego but even that is readable

7:23 AM

You could fill the array with dummy functions and then do a[44] = lambda: blah for the defined ones.

@feersum but that would just look bad

Anonymous

And it wouldn't offer much performance improvement over a dict

Sometimes you need to give up efficient code for good looking code, and other times you need to GOLF IT

Anonymous

dict lookup is O(1)

well then wow

Anonymous

7:24 AM

Hashes bro

@phase This ~~does not~~ should not apply to interpreters. :P

Constant factors are often what matters.

@AlexA. it so much very compiles with the spec of the interpreters

Anything is O(1) since you have a maximum of 256 entries.

Anonymous

@feersum The constant factor is going to vary by machine, so by that logic I should be producing highly-optimized whatever-heroku-runs-on machine code

7:25 AM

@phase Compiles?

@AlexA. complies*

been thinking of languages too much :P

Oh that makes more sense

Anonymous

I really want to make o.c better

@Mego Not sure what point you're trying to make there.

@Mego please do!

7:26 AM

Me too. It's horrific.

Anonymous

Start off with removing the includes, run gcc -E, and use that

Anonymous

Then get rid of all the typedefs

Anonymous

Then you'll be getting somewhere

Add whitespace

oh no, I want to add more typedefs

Anonymous

7:26 AM

^^

Anonymous

Whitespace, not whitetabs

oh no tabs are gross

No. No more typedefs. We're cutting you off. You've had enough.

lol @ making the code readable by gcc -E

Anonymous

And then scrap the entire thing and rewrite it in C++

7:27 AM

^

Anonymous

@feersum It would very quickly get rid of those nasty defines

I'd rather write it in D

Why

C++ > D

because D has a sweet stdlib and its syntax is amazing

D is just a modern C++

Anonymous

Write it in R

7:28 AM

Has it gained much popularity? I've heard very little about it.

@Mego Now that's a bad idea! :P

Write it in O

He can't use C++ because it's too many bytes.

I'll write it in O when it can handle itself :P

New Main Posts

0

Q: Average calculator

Main Goal Create a calculator that finds the average / mean of a set of numbers. It must use the formula mean = (inputA + inputB) / inputCount or similar. This is code golf. Rules No standard loopholes (see meta article) Must be at least 10 bytes (Use real language) Must take STDIN of at ...

I wanted it in C so I could put it on my Wii & 3DS

Why... would... what. How. I...?

Why would you want to run O on a Wii?

7:30 AM

@NewMainPosts That's not a duplicate?

@AlexA. Just write a C wrapper around it

It's in C

so I add the boilerplate and boom

O REPL on my Wii

Wait, what?

> Remove 10% if doesn't use CJam, Hexagony, Golfscript, or similar Golf languages.

downvotes

@phase I found a place where you can golf a space. typedef FILE* FP;

@El'endiaStarman There's probably some 2 byte way to do it in Julia or something

@feersum OMG WHERE WHY HOW NOW

FILE*FP

7:31 AM

@phase $n5MN. 6 bytes in Minkolang.

O sucks at I/O

omg I have no way to get the length of an array ;-;

Anonymous

@phase If I send you a pull request with a working, clean C/C++ interpreter in a week or so, would you merge it?

@Mego Make it only C and maybe

Anonymous

Only C is ugly

Anonymous

C strings suck

7:36 AM

^

@El'endiaStarman I' /]e\*\/o 10 in O (once I fix some bugs :P)

y can i no edit messages? nvm good

@AlexA. how do you scratch out part of a message?

@phase ---words---

@phase ---strikethrough---

Ninjo'd

Just barely.

7:39 AM

~~scratch~~

~~oh why no ~?~~

That's a ninja playing a banjo

Anonymous

@phase ,æ, 2 bytes

@Mego esplain right now

Anonymous

,: read input (like [1,2,3]), æ: pop list, push mean

Anonymous

7:42 AM

So with the (terrible) scoring on the question, it'd be -23 bytes

code-golf math array-manipulation

post it :P

Anonymous

No

Anonymous

The question is a dupe; I just VTC'd

Anonymous

3

Q: Operations with Lists

Inspired by this question. Given a list containing numbers, print: The sum and product of the numbers in the list The average and median The differences between each term in the list (e.x. [1,2,3] -> [1,1]: 1+1=2, 2+1=3) The list, sorted ascending The minimum and maximum of the list The standa...

Great! Thank you

I had been looking for the dupe target

I hammered that POS closed

Anonymous

7:45 AM

Welcome

Anonymous

bows

> Must be at least 10 bytes (Use real language)

What does that even mean?

Anonymous

It means the author didn't win on a challenge because of CJam/Pyth/Golfscript/GS2/Seriously and is salty

Anonymous

We shouldn't allow questions that specifically exclude certain languages for no good reason tbh

You mean make them explicitly off topic so that they can be closed on sight?

Anonymous

7:48 AM

Yep

Anonymous

Rather than getting downvoted into oblivion

There's a fine line between that being used for good (like in this case) and that being used for "my language can't participate because it doesn't have the functionality required for the challenge so that's excluding me for no reason"

Anonymous

Then we define that line unambiguously

@AlexA. He means Seriously.

:P

@Mego I encourage you to post your thoughts on meta and get a discussion going.

It may have been discussed before though

Anonymous

7:51 AM

Something like "Challenges which explicitly forbid the use of certain languages in their rules are off-topic and should be closed on sight. Implicitly excluding languages because of lack of functionality is different and should be considered on a case-by-case basis."

Anonymous

@AlexA. I'm actually typing a meta post right now :P

> should be considered on a case-by-case basis

I disagree with that

There's no basis for claiming an arbitrary exclusion of a language if the language just doesn't possess the capabilities to fulfill the spec

I guess I would disagree too. Minkolang hasn't been able to participate in multiple challenges because it didn't have the/enough functionality yet. So what? That's...uh, normal?

BF can't do very much...

See yall in the morning!

And image processing challenges rule out tons of languages by default as well. That's not a bad thing, it's just how it is.

7:53 AM

G'night!

@phase Don't let o.c haunt your dreams! Good night!

Yeah, graphics-related challenges are one of the biggest "offenders" in that sense.

As it turns out, not that many people care to include graphics capabilities in their esolangs. :P

Someone should really write a Brainfuck graphics library...

Anonymous

@AlexA. ScreenFuck?

Graphuck

7:58 AM

I'd like to include graphics capabilities in mine, in fact. The challenge is: how do I make it work with the online interpreter?

Bad Cat Eye

Eyefuck

Anonymous

@AlexA. I've never made a meta post, and I'm not sure about what's good ettiquette - should I include my thoughts in the question, or should I make the question purely a question, and post an answer with my opinion?

@Mego The latter

Anonymous

Thanks

np

Q: Disallowing Explicit Exclusion of Languages

8:03 AM

o.c is just a monster partially hiding behind a wall.

Anonymous

8:14 AM

0

We've had discussion on a related topic before, where the general consensus is that challenges should be language-agnostic by default, but specific-language challenges were also acceptable within reason. Spurred by this question (which was closed for an unrelated reason), the discussion was brou...

discussion close-reasons

Anonymous

(linking it now because I know NewMetaPosts will take hours)

New Meta Posts

2

Q: Disallowing Explicit Exclusion of Languages

We've had discussion on a related topic before, where the general consensus is that challenges should be language-agnostic by default, but specific-language challenges were also acceptable within reason. Spurred by this question (which was closed for an unrelated reason), the discussion was brou...

discussion close-reasons

Hours, eh? :P

That was about 5 minutes

No carrots.

Anonymous

@AlexA. I'm in a highly-accelerated frame with respect to the bot, so it appeared to be hours to me

:P

8:22 AM

carrot

Anonymous

that's how general relativity works, trust me, no need to look it up

43 secs ago, by Alex A.

No carrots.

@Mego Actually, that would have the opposite effect.

carrot.bak

16 secs ago, by Mego

that's how general relativity works, trust me, no need to look it up

8:23 AM

@Mego ...more likely Special relativity.

Anonymous

them durn ninjoos

avocado juice

Avocado juice is permitted.

carrot juice

Though I maintain that it is exceptionally difficult to obtain from an avocado.

Anonymous

8:25 AM

@El'endiaStarman Yeah that's what I meant

Anonymous

It's 2 AM, you expect me to fully remember the quirks of relativity at this time?

Well, y'know, is possible that general relativity could be the case too...

Anonymous

Yep

It's almost 3:30 AM here and I'm remembering relativity better than you! :P

(I do have an advantage though: I often get up in the afternoon.)

olive oil

Anonymous

8:27 AM

If the bot was influenced by the gravitational field of a large mass (or undergoing heavy acceleration, since those two are essentially the same thing in GR), then its time would appear to be going much slower than it would perceive

Anonymous

Who keeps removing stars?

There we go! :)

@Mego Maybe Doorknob.

can we start abusing stars yet?

i am missing it

status-declined

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman He's not even in here. Alex is the only mod around

8:29 AM

alex-is-wrong

Anonymous

(other than you)

> Maybe

:P

@Mego I've been removing star spam

Seriously?

Anonymous

@AlexA. itwasn'tme

mods know the starrers as well?

8:30 AM

Well, there are suspicions...

Anonymous

Don't put that evil on me, Alex

@El'endiaStarman just like we have for @ಠ_ಠ

@Optimizer No. It used to be that anyone could see who starred something via a bug in the system but that was fixed.

@Optimizer doorknob's sock knows

@Mego Don't worry, you're not the one I'm suspicious about at the moment. ;P

8:30 AM

@randomra that's what alex is referring to

Anonymous

@AlexA. If you're not suspicious about me, you have a problem

Why, because you're the one spamming stars?

Anonymous

No :P

Anonymous

Full disclosure

Anonymous

8:32 AM

You didn't star Doorknob's useful comment? :P

^

mego doesnt support abuse stopping?

Add your star!

Anonymous

@AlexA. I didn't see one :P

Anonymous

(joking)

8:32 AM

~~ಠ_ಠ~~

its not useful

It's useful for not getting suspended. :P

Oh, Dಠಠrknಠb's cಠmment gಠt mಠre stars!

Anonymous

It's pinned, so there's no point in starring it, other than surpassing quartata's life-changing message (which should not have happened)

oh, didn't know the bug was fixed

8:34 AM

Unfortunately so

Anonymous

0

A: Simple cat program

O, 7 bytes 1{io1}w O is a new stack-based golfing language that aims to have as many 1-byte commands as possible. 1: pushes 1 for a truthy value. {: begin code block (like ruby) i: pushes input to stack o: outputs top of stack 1: as above }: ends code block w: repeatedly does code block ...

By the way, @Mego, I saw your length 7 Seriously snippet and this is the equivalent in Minkolang: n9M[i3MN].

@MartinBüttner @es1024 @overactor @cjfaure I'm reviving the Marbelous room as I work on a new interpreter

Anonymous

ಠ_ಠ

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman I count 10 bytes, I win

Anonymous

8:35 AM

:P

Oh, I know. Just wanted to share. :)

@Mego I recognize that guy from the O GitHub discussions

Anonymous

@AlexA. Oh right, I thought he was some random troll trying to snipe @phase

Haha

Anonymous

He's probably phase's sock

Anonymous

8:36 AM

And he forgot to switch accounts before posting

He has an account with the same name on GitHub. I don't think it's a sock account.

Anonymous

Stop ruining my accusations with your logic

Anonymous

Your wrong logic

don't worry, we have our ultimate logic : alex-is-wrong

The bird has flown the coop!

8:40 AM

any new folks around here interested in helping with marbelous development? as a language, or interpreters, or docs/examples?

oh, no more unstarring around now!

@Sparr I'd offer to help make an online interpreter, but I really should focus on learning C#...or at least finishing Minkolang...

Anonymous

@Sparr I can help

@El'endiaStarman make the online interpreter in C#? :)

Anonymous

@Sparr eww gross no

8:45 AM

here's the chat room for marbelous, anyone is welcome to join: v

Marbelous esolang design

Anonymous

ASP.NET is so ugly

I'll be starting up some discussion there about language spec updates, etc, soon

9:01 AM

@Sparr ...actually, I could make an interpreter to help me learn Visual Studio and C#...

instead of learning, you would end up spending all your time golfing that interpreter

Anonymous

@Optimizer Only if you are @phase

2

its contagious

I've enjoyed golfing in marbelous

I'll enjoy doing it more when I have a GUI to simulate in

the recursive fibonacci example is actually something I'm proud of

although it might not be fully golfed at this point. the language improved a bit after I wrote that.

@Sparr you could also use the general esolangs room.

9:15 AM

@MartinBüttner

The > < ^ v commands also shift walls, right?

Yes

Ok!

From a job posting:

> Required Skills and Abilities:
-Must have 5+ years of development experience with C#
[more]

...looks like someone didn't look it over carefully enough...

9:31 AM

@El'endiaStarman what is there problem there?

The "[more]".

That is the entirety of the "Required Skills and Abilities".

undergroundmonorail

in Human Resource Machine Self-Help Group, Sep 4 at 11:30, by Sp3000

If you mean image test 3, mine's pretty terrible (undergroundmonorail has better) :P

@Sp3000 thinks the bar for "terrible solution" is "worse than undergroundmonorail"

i'm hurt

its true though

Hey, they were two separate statements! :P (Mine's pretty terrible P.S. monorail has better)

undergroundmonorail

45 secs ago, by undergroundmonorail

i'm hurt

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

9:33 AM

truth can hurt sometimes

New Sandboxed Posts

0

Who is the Star Abuser? In The Nineteenth Byte some people often star chat messages without any reason. You decided to go on a quest to find out who is the star abuser. You logged the chat actions as a string, each action represented by a character (as you are a code golfer after all). Every ...

@NewSandboxedPosts By that logic I believe the culprit is... dramatic music NewMainPosts?

Anonymous

@NewSandboxedPosts so meta

Anonymous

@Sp3000 Either that or Brian, both are perpetually here

undergroundmonorail

every time i've looked in this chat, this "undergroundmonorail" character was hanging around... seems shady

Anonymous

9:38 AM

Will the real undergroundmonorail please step up?

@Sp3000 right, I should solve that problem, it is a bit too easy anyway

but you can't see NewMainPosts on the right side

Even more suspicious! (but in all seriousness though, Brian's in here a lot too as Mego says)

should it be expected starts / minute? and input would be MAO * * ao ** * style?

Anonymous

@randomra I don't see what that would add

Anonymous

I think the core challenge idea is fine as it is

9:45 AM

@Mego result would be more realistic

8 mins ago, by Sp3000

@NewSandboxedPosts By that logic I believe the culprit is... dramatic music NewMainPosts?

Anonymous

@randomra Since when do we care about realism?

9:57 AM

> Remove 10% if doesn't use CJam, Hexagony, Golfscript, or similar Golf languages.

I really don't get all these golf languages. — codeSwift4Life 3 hours ago

Hexagony is now officially a golfing language.

5

10:08 AM

oh, those were both from the same guy.

WTF, Pyth is not a golfing language?

No, it's only a similar golfing language.

10:34 AM

single chrome tab, y u use 1.6 GB memory

@feersum 1080p webgl?

@Optimizer There's no reason for any of them to be using that...

it could

depends on the amount of shaders and textures loaded

It segfaulted a few seconds later so I'll never know.

I meant no reason for webgl.

oh

flawr

11:02 AM

@Mego I just read the seriously command list, I think it would be great to have a list where similar commands are grouped: E.g. a section for each Math/Logical/Strings/Lists/Stackoperations/etc

New Main Posts

12:41 PM

0

Q: Count up forever

Write a program that counts up forever, starting from one. Rules: Your program must log to STDOUT or an acceptable alternative, if STDOUT is not available. Your program must be a full, runnable program, and not a function or snippet. Your program must output each number with a separating chara...

code-golf number