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3:00 AM
still confused on how the byte counting challenge hadn't been asked yet
@DankMemes @AlexA. Just saw that Apple released new iMacs today.
I have a feeling that @DankMemes wouldn't care about that as much as I would.
well I still thought I would add him to the message anyway :P
Alex would be correct
3:08 AM
I have an open-book open-notes history midterm tomorrow.
How worried should I feel?
@PhiNotPi Have you studied? Do you feel like you know the material fairly well?
If you answered yes to either of those questions, I'd say you don't need to worry at all.
Also, history sucks, so who cares.
Am allowed to say NAND?
@AlexA. ^
^ interception!
3:09 AM
@PhiNotPi You can probably say whatever you want.
@AlexA. pretty much
You could write a proof of some unrelated theorem in place of an essay. It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.
testing this userscript I just wrote
@AlexA. do it Feynman style
You might want to put the stealth ping at the end of the message rather than the beginning if possible. I can see the leading space and it's suspicious.
3:13 AM
just testing
We don't have LaTeX/MathJax support in chat. (Or on the site.)
^^ stole borrowed 99% of the code for that
A: Revisiting LaTeX

Chris Jester-YoungI've now enabled the MathJax setting here. Enjoy!

not on chat, but on site
@GamrCorps It was removed on the site.
3:15 AM
We had it briefly but it broke search and stack snippets.
test it (only works for $$...$$)
where did I just test that????
@AlexA. jk
thats embarrassing
It might still be enabled on meta.
I can't recall.
probably tested it on meta, that would make sense
Oh, @GamrCorps, for your byte counting challenge did you want output to STDOUT or can I return it from a function like I did in my answer?
3:17 AM
Okay cool. Just making sure.
Because so far I'm the only one whose done it; everyone else prints to STDOUT. You might want to specify that in the challenge.
@AlexA. I thought it was turned off not too long ago because it messed up the Banach-Tarski challenge sandbox post.
@AlexA. doing that right now
@El'endiaStarman I would be surprised if it was turned off on meta specifically because it messed with one sandboxed post but I have no evidence one way or the other.
@GamrCorps Extra cool sauce.
@GamrCorps Does the output have to be exactly number space number, or can we return a pair/tuple/array/list from a function?
i.e. string output versus some kind of collection
Nvm, it appears you answered that in a comment
3:38 AM
@AlexA. Huh, I guess it's still on. Link.
Inspirational Quote of the Day: “Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live.” - Rick Osborne
What if you end up maintaining your own code? Should you live in fear that you're secretly a violent psychopath?
well arent we all?
Uh... <.< backs away from you slowly
3:53 AM
Hey @Calvin'sHobbies, guess which one of us here is a violent psychopath! makes eye movements toward GamrCorps
remains hidden in the shadows
Quick, hide your tiger!
3:59 AM
@AlexA. I have a new complaint about elementaryOS
What is it?
It doesn't come with updated printer drivers, and hplip is missing a ton of dependencies, which the hplip installer can't install automatically in elementary.
So I had to track down the package names and run apt-get on each of them to get hplip to install.
Is that true of Ubuntu as well?
4:01 AM
here was somebody with a similar issue: michael-peeters.blogspot.com/2013/10/…
(Some of the names he gave were not accurate for me.)
And I found a bug with elementary's notifications system.
The "missing printer driver" notification won't go away.
Even after a "printer installed" notification came and went.
Did you report the bug?
Well, I'm not sure how.
4:45 AM
Does anyone here use clojure?
@Justin Yes, I know at least one person does, but I forget who.
I'm trying to figure out how to get clojure to work with Intellij, since Intellij is one of my favorite IDEs. And I cannot figure out what my run configurations should be.
I just realized that that answer is not very helpful.
I found it reasonably helpful. Because maybe I'll eventually find the one person.
Hooray, I was reasonably helpful
4:56 AM
Haha googling "cursive tutorial" won't give me the right results.
Haha I would think not
Great. I found a vimeo video tutorial, but it's not youtube... so I can't play it at double speed :(
You want to watch a tutorial at 2x speed?
Of course I would
They talk way too slow in informational videos.
2x speed is about right for most things.
Sometimes it's hard to understand them, but if they have a British accent, it's easier.
Ahh it seems I need to install Leiningen.
It's easier to understand people with British accents? Whose side are you on?
5:04 AM
Naturally, I believe the British spelling to be superior.
Every time I want the color "grey" in Java, it pains me because I have to type Color.GRAY
@ThomasKwa You're not an American though, right?
@ThomasKwa Is that the way to spell superior in the British style? Alright then. *superiour.
5:06 AM
Justin has no excuse. :P
The colours of the American flag are red, white, and blue.
I agree with your use of the Oxford comma, but no extraneous "u"!
In one of my programming classes, I made a #define SOMETHING_CENTRE
naah, just messing with y'all @Justin
5:07 AM
@AlexA. "color" just looks wrong.
I am American, actually
You and @StainRebel with your preference for incorrect spelling.
And as an example word which I really cannot write the American way: Savior. Ugh ugh ugh. Saviour. Much better.
@ThomasKwa You are? Then why do you prefer incorrect grammar? :P
5:07 AM
Same with "savor" vs "savour"
@ThomasKwa You trust wiktionary?
Which looks more savoury to you: "savory" or "savoury"?
For me, definitely the second.
hmm, good point
@AlexA. Wait... did Thomas use incorrect grammar? I didn't see incorrect grammar.
yesterday, by Thomas Kwa
@AlexA. Your use of the American quote style greatly irks me.
@AlexA. Leaving out the Oxford comma drives me crazy.
@AlexA. What is the "American quote style"?
I honestly can't see my grammatical mistake...
5:10 AM
Punctuation inside quotes, "like this."
Periods, I should say.
Ah. I hate it, but I do it for essays.
Exclamation points and question marks go on the outside.
/me instinctively slaps @AlexA. in the face
Really? I thought they went on the inside.... someone may have taught me wrong.
I was taught to mangle the punctuation of what you are quoting.
5:12 AM
So if I'm trying to quote something that looks like this: "This is a sentence." If I want to use this in the middle of a sentence: After saying, "This is a sentence," he proceeded to slap AlexA in the face.
/me slaps @Justin twice in quick succession
Yes, this is correct.
@ThomasKwa Ouch.
Haha I meant that Justin's use is correct but it looks like I'm agreeing that Thomas's double slap is correct.
@AlexA. It irks me. The fact that it irks me is on my list of "Signs that you are a programmer"
5:14 AM
Why does it irk you and how does that have anything to do with programming skills?
Because a quote should maintain the integrity of the quote. That includes punctuation.
Okay, so that's why it irks you, but what does it have to do with programming aptitude?
I saw something online where someone was writing a program. I think it was Java, but I don't remember what was wanted. She put the comma inside the quote..... and of course the code didn't compile.
@AlexA. Because programmers should instinctively think "string" when they type a double-quote. And it's bad to put unwanted characters inside a string.
One just has to recognize the difference between literary quotes and strings. :P
Yeah.... but I program way more than I write essays, so it irks me.
5:17 AM
Just like how I write with pencils and eat zucchini. They're both long but I use them for different things.
That's a bad metaphor. Disregard.
@AlexA. Good you aren't one of those weird people who eat their pencils.
Pencils don't taste as good as zucchini and zucchinis have proven to be inferior writing utensils.
Bleh looks terrible.
Hey did anyone here get the signup for SO swag? I wonder when they'll ship the package...
I tried.
5:22 AM
It looks really bad, I'm going to delete that.
Just disregard my existence.
Other things that bug me: people love to mispronounce "Volkswagen" and "Wagner"
It's not pronounced "Voleks-waahgen". It's "Folks-vahgen"
It's not "Waagner". It's "Vahgner"
I say "Volkswagen" like an American (the accepted pronunciation used in the official VW of America advertising).
Yes, but it bugs me
When I was in Canada during the last Olympics, they had a commercial that said "Folks-vahgen. Das auto."
No idea what it means.
I have a similar problem with "manga", where I'm not sure which pronunciation to use when talking with people :P
Isn't it "mahnga"? Not "maynga"?
5:26 AM
I always hear it pronounced as you would pronounce it in Japanese: まんが
I have a similar problem with "karaoke". People say "carry-okey".
Yeah, but a lot of people I know pronounce it the latter, so it's more of a "try to fit in" situation
I can't not pronounce it "Kahrah-okay"
"Kahrah-okay" sounds like the speaker is Chinese :P
5:27 AM
I learned it from my dad.
He's not Chinese.
He knows Korean though.
Is he Korean?
I mean, that's how it's pronounced in Chinese (although, more like "kahlah")
No. He's white as white can be.
Japanese wouldn't end in "kay" I don't think, right? (cos "ke")
Got a dad like Wonderbread.
5:28 AM
Actually, when we are outside a lot, my dad isn't white.
When we are outside a lot, my dad is red. Red as a lobster.
@Sp3000 In Japanese it's kah-rah-oh-kay
(Well, given that we forget to put on sunscreen...)
My dad said that the right way to say it is "kah-rah-oh-kay" but I don't remember the location of the stress.
None of the syllables are stressed in the Japanese pronunciation.
5:32 AM
Did I eat a dinner today?... I don't know...
hungry ? eat : don't
If only it were that simple.
More like hungry ? don't eat : don't eat. It's Absolutely-need-to-eat ? eat : don't.
You should probably eat when you're hungry... I'm fairly certain that's why hunger exists: to tell you to eat.
5:35 AM
I know. It just doesn't usually work that way for me.
Hm. Okay.
I don't know what just happened, but I got clojure to work.
Now I get to learn Clojure :-).
Such a stark stream of avatars...
5:41 AM
I'm disappointed that the alliteration was ruined by "avatars." :(
But then it just sounds like I'm referencing Game of Thrones
I don't think I've ever seen the word "sigils."
@AlexA. Really?
waits for @Justin and @Thomas to scream over my use of punctuation in quotes
(But I haven't heard "sigils" in the context of Game of Thrones)
@AlexA. I don't actually mind the punctuation in quotes if you aren't actually quoting something.
5:44 AM
Well The Game of Thrones at least (the book)
@Calvin'sHobbies C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!
This is getting more like the Nineteenth Byte that I know.
Why, because @Optimizer just showed up?
It's not a party if there's no llama.
No. Because of things like @El'endiaStarman's "C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!" and because @Optimizer showed up. It's getting more lively in here.
So you're saying I'm not good enough for you anymore?
5:47 AM
I'm saying this is more like the Nineteenth Byte that I know. Doesn't mean I like the Nineteenth Byte that I know better.
@Justin Did you usta be Quincunx?
@Calvin'sHobbies "usta"?
used to
5:48 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies Yes.
Cumo usta esdad
@AlexA. What language is that?
Python I think
^ -1
5:50 AM
I thought so
¿Cómo está usted?
^ actual spanish
Cumo usta esdad
^ me being dumb
@Dennis Right, forgot it changes with "usted."
@Dennis haha
@Calvin'sHobbies This made me LOL
@Calvin'sHobbies For the record, I just had a facepalm reaction. I don't strongly dislike it.
5:55 AM
I think he strongly dislikes it.
translate tlh: removed
(from English) teq
Oh my god the translate: mod power can do Klingon.
guys, I can possible not be online at 6 AM
so how did I just show up back then @AlexA. ?
Well it's almost noon now.
(Not here though--it's 11pm here)
@Calvin'sHobbies Did you mention the sliding puzzle challenge idea in chat recently? I feel like I thought about this exact challenge just a few days ago, but I don't recall what prompted it.
@AlexA. the ping from you was at 6 AM my time.
@MartinBüttner I don't think so.
6:06 AM
No I thought Calvin made a mini-chat-challenge similar to it yesterday.
I don't know, did you?
There was the tent one, and the snoflake
There was one you posted in chat that I didn't understand and everyone was confused as to why I didn't understand it.
6:09 AM
That was printing numbers vertically.
(which means you really didn't understand it :P)
Oh I just figured it out
@Calvin'sHobbies Did you assume I was trolling? (Granted, that is often a safe assumption.)
Yes, actually
I wasn't, my brain just didn't get it at the time. I get it now though.
Go Clojure!
So far, this is a lot of fun
6:20 AM
Anyway, seeing as I'm tired enough to misspell the names of programming languages, I should probably sleep...
Mini-word-challenge: Find three 3-letter word-portions such that any two of then can be joined to make a word. I found can, did, dle -> candid, candle, diddle
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayPloxing a Bott Plox code-golf ascii-art Challenge Given a set of integer data, you must plot a box plot of the data. Input Input may be in any way that you wish, but the input will always contain integers, no floating points. Box plot A box plot is plotted like so: | |---------| ...

dennis, garden, garnis[h] - so close!
6:29 AM
Bonus challenge: the three letters must be words too
@Sp3000 Do you have an example for that?
The original can, did, dle doesn't work anymore because of dle.
Bonus bonus challenge: the three 3-letter words must be joinable into a 9-letter word
This is PPCG. Since when did we solve challenges ourselves before posting? (Except Martin)
I do once in a great while ;)
I never solved World Big Dosa. I knew it was possible so I just left it at that. :P
Re: original challenge: (car | ton) ing
6:36 AM
Almost works for your bonus challenge
Too bad ing isn't a word
morale, finale, morfin works for the 3 short words (except afaik morfin is only a name in harry potter)
because mor is "humus formed under acid conditions"
But not ideal :P
Hey, I solved one of my challenges before posting! The small cases anyway...
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

El'endia StarmanThe /\/\aze of Mirrors code-golf ascii-art sniffs...something smells...fishy. The reason being that there's actually a fish! But it's at the end of a maze of mirrors that you have control over. Your task is to rotate the mirrors until you can see that delicious-smelling ><>. Luckily, there are...

Speaking of which, input would be appreciated...
Or I'll be rather put out...
6:54 AM
@AlexA. Best I've found is forbidden or forgotten
forden and tenfor ought to be words
The latter sounds like one of those old fashioned words.
Ten-four good buddy
Tenfor a dollar
Not one, but for hilarity: hat(red)cap
7:01 AM
Seems redundant.
Seems hatty.
Seems handy.
@Calvin'sHobbies Sorry, I even read through twice because I was sure I missed it...
7:10 AM
(Net ain't great over here)
Depends if you count ted :P (not really)
7:31 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies (app | end) ear
Okay, now Alex's extension is probably too hard :P
7:50 AM
Q: Convert Roman numeral to Arabic decimal without pre-existing key

IamOgbzElegant way to code interpretation any sequence of alphabets as Roman numerals, verify that it matches the rules and then consistently convert to Arabic decimals, without having a key beforehand i.e. NO {I=1, V=5, X=10...} before attempting the interpretation and with lower numbers having prefe...

1 hour later…
9:16 AM
@MartinBüttner > you can't use "backreference" in a lookbehind in .net flavor?
(this become relevant for me again)
9:36 AM
@randomra uh, what?
lookbehinds are matched RTL, so you'd want the backreference before the capture
e.g. (?<=\1(.))
@MartinBüttner like (?<=\1.*)(.), from the non-lookbehind part
uh, nope
unless the entire regex is in RTL
so there's two options:
(note that (?<=\1.*)(.) by itself can't really work... regardless of the lookbehind part, this is like trying (?=.+\1)(.))
@Sp3000 Re your starred message... I only solve others' challenges before they post them, not my own. :P
9:52 AM
@MartinBüttner I don't get that, (?=.+\1)(.) references before the (.) matching, but (?<=\1.*)(.) matches first and then references (I would expect it to at least)
why would it? the regex is still processed left to right. only the contents of the lookbehind are processed right to left
so first match the lookbehind from a given position, and then check if that position works for the main regex?
the lookarounds name hinted me that they are checked after the main thing matches
there is no such thing as a "main regex". the lookaround is a token like any other, except that the "cursor" of the regex engine resets after processing it
@MartinBüttner ah, makes sense, I always anchored it to the following parts in my mind
1 hour later…
11:10 AM
So this is the dead hour...
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

samgakThis question is inspired by ongoing tournament of "the hooligan's game played by gentlemen", the Rugby World Cup, which has just completed the pool stage. There are 20 teams in the tournament, and they are divided into 4 pools of 5 teams each. During the pool stage each team plays against all th...

11:52 AM
How do I make a code block with a newline at the beginning?
Q: Rock Paper Scissors obfuscation

DJgamer98Rock Paper Scissors Obfuscation Your job is to make a simple game of Rock Paper Scissors against the AI, but you need to make your code as unreadable as possible. This is my first question on PPCG.SE, so feel free to give me any tips or constructive criticism. Have fun! Rules You need to mak...

12:36 PM
@feersum you don't (except with HTML maybe)
12:49 PM
@MartinBüttner Your shortest solution to polygram in Matlab or something else?
I wonder if CJam/Pyth+SVG could beat it
I could maybe drop the gcd and overwrite the lines a bunch of times
I suppose I could do that in Mathematica as well :P
hmm does not work so well, can see the wrong color sometimes
1:12 PM
I've tied 81 now.
That RPS challenge reminds me... one of my friends once made an RPS program that decides whether to win/lose/tie and then calculates the move it should make based on your move.
Sounds legit.
1:34 PM
Is this clear enough of a consensus that I can mod-close the three relevant questions?
@feersum nice :)
@MartinBüttner Mmm, I dunno. It was a recent, drastic change in the voting there, and the other answer still has more upvotes (though it has more downvotes too). Tough call.
I'd wait a bit more. It only takes three people to close the gap from 18 to 24, and there have been 12 votes in the past 60 hours.
@Geobits oh, I didn't check the vote breakdown
(technically the upvotes are tied though, because I'd upvote mine, but Alex would downvote his ;))
Yea... that's a good reason not to post answers you disagree with just to make it a poll ;)
If people just posted answers they agreed with, we could eliminate all the loose "+/-1 from me, can't vote" comments everywhere, since posting it would be an implicit +1.
Well, in this particular case, I don't think he was disagreeing with it when he posted it.
1:45 PM
@Dennis he must have been disagreeing with one of his answers :P
Ha, good point.
@Geobits Indeed... I actually stopped doing the polling thing since Robert Cartaino pointed out to me that it sort of defeats the purpose of a constructive discussion on meta
We need a meta meta site where we can discuss issues about the meta site :D
@MartinBüttner I agree and disagree with that. If you post a lengthy answer supporting your point of view and a one-liner for the opposite, it probably has an impact on how people vote. But on the other hand, FGITW is a problem on Meta too.
but even in this case... the answers for both sides were short, but I think the Yes answer was worded more agreeably ... and both answers pre-empted someone who had an opinion making their point with actual arguments.
(and, as my new answer shows, arguments > FGITW, apparently ;))
1:50 PM
The helped with that, I think.
true, but did already get quite a lot of votes before Doorknob featured it
One of the advantages of having a Meta that a) has a sandbox people visit regularly and b) doesn't have a lot more going on.
And an active chat
@Dennis have you tried the Symbolic Negative challenge in the sandbox?
2:16 PM
@MartinBüttner Not yet. Have you?
I can do 4x4, which is very similar to Optimizer's solution to the original challenge. I can't find anything for 3x3 so far though
yours can also be converted
although with the tie breaker being fewest symbols, converting Optimizer's is better
Q: Harmonious "Convergence"

JustinThe Alternating Harmonic Series is a well known convergent series. "Clearly", it is obvious that it converges to the natural log of 2. Or does it? Since the series is not absolutely convergent, by simply rearranging the terms, I can make it approach anything I want. Suppose I want the series ...

2:33 PM
I think that if Arnold Schwarzenegger reads a program in ArnoldC, it is run on real life.

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