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6:07 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies fixed .A xelA, it's now 27
 
2
Q: Write a time machine quine

PyrrhaWrite a program that takes as input a string and an integer n, and outputs: The string that was passed to the program n times ago; A new program that will be used for the next invocation. You cannot store any data outside of the program, and your program cannot call previous programs in the c...

 
@Calvin'sHobbies first pass for Perimiterize is 52
 
Is there a way to add syntax formatting for one little inline code block?
 
Like coloring?
 
no, I think only block code can get syntax highlighting
 
6:21 AM
^
 
@AlexA. Yeah. I just want the inline sum(map(ord, myString)) to color like python
 
I don't think any of that would even be colored in a code block
 
@Calvin'sHobbies 25 for SATOR... not sure whether I can really improve that
 
@AlexA. close hammer for spam.
 
huh?
 
6:26 AM
check the home page
-1
Q: Adderum The mind-body

user46107Physical movement Adderum The mind-body are interconnected. Physical discharge adherence roughly recommendation in the publicity of mental alert ness and emotional tally. The training is of several types. You should see for the best doable mixture is best for you and your temperament. But one sho...

 
@MartinBüttner I may revise that one
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayBeavers vs Llamas cops-and-robbers busy-beaver Cops Introduction You are the unobtanium dealers: you want to make all programs run for as long as possible so you can make more money off unobtanium guilded computer cases. Challenge Write a program to perform a task whilst taking as long as p...

 
@Calvin'sHobbies base encoding gives 34
got the straightforward approach down to 22
 
Who came up with ?
 
6:34 AM
@MartinBüttner 12 added. I'll review them, maybe add more examples, but should be posting soon.
 
@BetaDecay The Swiss. They invented Swiss cheese, after all.
Sep 9 at 3:50, by Alex A.
I feel like the tag could use a better name.
 
Colin and Ryan are some of the few celebrities I feel I could be starstruck by
 
I love Whose Line. So much.
Ryan seems like he's a giant.
 
Just a big stick with a big nose
 
o he haz wikiped
Ryan Lee Stiles (born April 22, 1959) is a Canadian-American actor, comedian, director, and voice actor whose work is often associated with improvisational comedy. He is best known for his career and co-production work on the American and British versions of Whose Line Is It Anyway? and the role of Lewis Kiniski on The Drew Carey Show. He played Herb Melnick on the CBS comedy Two and a Half Men and was a performer on the show Drew Carey's Improv-A-Ganza. == Early life and careerEdit == The youngest of five children, Ryan Stiles was born in Seattle, Washington, to Canadian parents, Irene and Sonny...
ok goodby
 
6:52 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

JustinHarmonious "Convergence" code-golf The Alternating Harmonic Series is a well known convergent series. "Clearly", it is obvious that it converges to the natural log of 2. Or does it? Since the series is not absolutely convergent, by simply rearranging the terms, I can make it approach anythin...

 
0
Q: Dealing with show in Haskell

ChiffaI have a function ip, which I can not change: ip = show a ++ show b ++ show c ++ show d and I have to define a, b, c and d so that GHCi> ip "127.224.120.12" holds. How do I do that?

 
7:12 AM
ughh.. I flagged incorrectly..
 
7:32 AM
-5
Q: Messanger for www.talkandtalkers.com

user46109My name is Taposh Kapuria. My blog is www.talkandtalkers.com I want to add chatting messanger for my website. How can we do it?

 
@AlexA. I think it's unclear whether OP's intention would be that Bill and Jill have two letters in common or three. (And three would be an ever so slightly more interesting option, because it means that it's not just an & in languages like GS, CJam, Pyth).
 
7:49 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies not a fan of the "Furthermore, the resulting prime number must be unique to your answer alone!"
 
No?
There should be plenty of possible primes
I think
 
still... there might be a particularly simple solution which I may or may not find right now, giving me an advantage over everyone else
also, who keeps track of which ones have already been used?
what if someone finds that they can golf their task 12 further by changing the number? I think it just makes everything a lot messier than necessary
and I don't really see what the uniqueness adds
 
@MartinBüttner The bookkeeping is not that different from challenges that restrict one answer per language (though I agree that it could become a hassle)
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I didn't say I like those any better ;)
 
@MartinBüttner I just didn't want everyone to print that same rather trivial example answer. but alright, lemme think
 
7:56 AM
got a 15-byte solution
for 9901
(or a few others)
that's 8 tasks in 131 bytes
I'd need to golf out at least 18 bytes to fit in the 9th
 
How about if I remove the uniqueness thing but require that 2*(str sum) + 1 also be prime (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Germain_prime)
 
Hm, that rules out all 9 of my candidates, but I'm sure I can find another solution in 15 or 16 bytes
definitely in 17
14
thanks for making me look for larger primes :P
13 (same prime)
@Calvin'sHobbies do you want my solutions to generate/verify test cases?
 
8:15 AM
I wasn't planning on adding more examples but you can verify existing ones if you want
 
"the empty rightmost row" column?
 
I prefer Zgarb's test case format over just mentioning some examples inline in text
(i.e. a code block, one line per test cases, input separated from output via some token that can't appear in the input like =>)
makes it much easier to copy all of them and run the code against them
for truthy/falsy tasks, it's even sufficient to just put two code blocks (one for truthy, one for falsy), with one test case input per line.
Task 7: can the string be empty?
(if so, I hope that's truthy)
the previous version of the task specified "positive integer" though, which means that empty strings didn't have to be considered
 
8:30 AM
Ok, changed some example formatting, but I want to post it now
 
0
Q: Cramming The Gramming - Twelve Task Tweet

Calvin's HobbiesYour boss just emailed you a list of 12 programming tasks he needs done as soon as possible. The tasks are simple enough but your boss, being a young software tycoon suckled by social networking, insists that your solutions be able to fit within a single Twitter tweet. This means that you only h...

 
@Calvin'sHobbies how long do you want me to wait before posting? :P
 
Until you golf out at least 3 more bytes :P
 
ugh
I'd actually just tag it code-golf... the score is not the byte count, but the objective is no different from minimal byte count (just like how fastest code can be "shortest time for fixed output" or "largest output for fixed time")
 
8:47 AM
@MartinBüttner Are you actually trying to golf 3 bytes?
 
I'm looking into the square clocks right now
 
8:59 AM
one byte...
 
ughh
F and S are boxes for me. The rest are fine, for some reason. — El'endia Starman 7 hours ago
 
9:40 AM
@Optimizer Looks like some sort of faulty profanity checker :P
 
For F's sake
 
@Calvin'sHobbies oh, I just noticed, your change broke my digit group solution
may I post if I added 3 bytes? :P
 
Sure :P I do want to see the solutions
 
the new 0 special case really destroys the elegance of that particular solution :D
 
9:56 AM
What were you doing?
 
just greedily adding the digits to a running total and resetting it to 0 whenever if reaches 10. the result was the logical not of the counter. but now I need to make sure that 10 has been reached at least once
 
10:08 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies well there you go
 
That square clock looks pretty long, hmmm
 
yeah :(
I found loads of solution with that size, but so far nothing shorter
 
Time to bring out the brute forcing :P
 
I already did some brute force, but only for form similar to that one
 
What types of solutions did you try?
Ah k
 
10:18 AM
I might try negative bases...
 
my tablet also loves that question ^
 
 
1 hour later…
11:34 AM
-1
Q: QuickGolf - Silly heads

Juan CortésSome of you may already know this challenge from a popular coding website, but for those that don't it may still be fun to mess with. Write in as many bytes as possible, code that given a string of values separated by spaces turns it into a head. Assume the input variable is called g (thus no ne...

 
 
2 hours later…
1:14 PM
@aditsu you definitely have your profanity settings at "Very strict"
So apparently, dissing about stars gives you stars?
 
yaaaaaaay
(especially considering my implicit upvote and Alex's implicit downvote)
 
0
Q: Does the Python shell count as a "programming language"?

m654I used the Python shell to answer a question. Is that OK or should I have created a whole program for it?

 
@AlexA. Your use of the American quote style greatly irks me.
 
1:32 PM
The PBASIC dream program has run into a slight issue.
I forgot how verbose it was. My current program is 9 bytes which is too long....
Scratch that. It's 13 bytes. That's even worse.
I guess I'm going to have to go for another approach.
 
1:55 PM
hmmmm, 6 more bytes to fit 9 tasks... this is starting to look possible
@PeterTaylor sorry :/
(funnily, I made a similarly stupid mistake when solving the original version of #5... also implementing the expansion literally instead of just computing 2^n)
are you doing GolfScript?
 
CJam
 
oh okay
I'm looking forward to be soundly beaten then ;)
@aditsu would be neat if e> and e< took a block (max-by and min-by)
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

DennisChunky palindromes code-golf string palindrome Palindromes are fun, but some of the strings are starting to feel left out. We can turn strings into chunky palindromes by splitting them up into chunks which result in palindromic arrays. For example, the string abcabca isn't palindrome if we re...

 
I feel so FILTHE-y now :D
 
2:23 PM
Does anyone know what a typical Bitcoin buying/selling fee is?
Relevant to something I have in the sandbox.
I originally set it as 1%.
Maybe that's too much.
Okay, doing some googling make me think 0.2% is the norm: coindesk.com/…
 
2:58 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

agtoeverMeasure Chaos in Binary Folding and Squashing codegolfkolmogorov-complexity In chaos theory, the horseshoe map is an example of how chaos arises in a simple process of folding and squashing. It goes like this: take an imaginary piece of dough, fold it, and finally squash it to its original size...

 
Request: Idioms including whistle or whistling. Already considered and rejected "whistling in the dark" and "whistling past the graveyard".
 
blowing the whistle? (on someone)
bells and whistles?
 
Thanks. My mind is running on little sleep today :)
 
...And the SE API is down. So much for working on the robber's snippet
 
@Geobits Whistle while you work?
 
3:05 PM
I take no input from imposters :P
 
We could make a pretty good elevator interface
 
True...
 
Is it just me or does my avatar look sharper? I swear I only rotated it
 
Is anyone else having issues with even the template leaderboard snippet?
 
@Geoborts First step to being a good elevator is learning how to cajole your customers. "Have you considered the benefits of going down?" is a good start
 
3:19 PM
@Doorknob is right. You can change your name almost as much as you want on SE. The 30 day limit is a lie. I'm chat relay again.
 
I've made some changes to my bitcoin-trading spec: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/7171/2867
 
@Geoborts There may be some weird rules to it, but I've definitely been hit with the 30 day limit in the past. Bigtoes remembers.
As for the avatar, they do look slightly different. Mostly that your background doesn't look transparent, though.
 
All I had to do was create an account with a new SE page and change my name there and sync my network account with it. It complains about 30 days only if I try to change the name with an account I had already changed the name in.
 
I finished my PBASIC mystery string printer. However, since this is the first time anyone has ever golfed in PBASIC here, I have a few questions about how I should do the byte count.
 
Oh, well I never tried creating a new account to get around it. I think 55 network accounts is enough :D
 
3:24 PM
The way I was planning on doing the byte count was using the Memory Map to count the number of bytes the program takes when stored on the EEPROM of the microcontroller.
 
I think that's the way TI-BASIC does it here.
 
The main issue, as I see it, is that sometimes the programs have some null bytes before them.
So DEBUG "test" is 00 A0 9B CD CD CA 66 74 13 84 4C 35 07 C0
Should the 00 be included?
 
TI-BASIC is weird- each token is about 4-5 characters, but only takes up 1-2 bytes
Though PBASIC is tough because there's only 26 bytes of RAM
 
The EEPROM has 2 kilobytes of storage. That's where the program is stored.
The RAM is just for variables.
 
@quartata Also every variable is global and GOTO/GOSUB is needed for subroutines
 
3:29 PM
@DanielM. Ah yes good point.
My program has no GOTO/GOSUB but it does contain two variables.
I think I'll just count the null bytes for now. It's not a big deal as it still keeps the program under 32 bytes which is what I was aiming for.
 
Do you know if there is an online interpreter for PBASIC?
 
There is not. You can use Proteus VSM if you don't own a Basic Stamp however.
 
I don't feel like digging out my board
 
Proteus costs quite a bit of money but there's a demo you can use to program things that don't require actual schematics.
 
Though looking at the schematic, an interpreter wouldn't be the hardest thing to make. The only problem would be the byte count.
 
3:35 PM
?
Oh yeah an interpreter would be really easy actually
I just don't know how Parallax would feel about it ;)
 
Esp. since all the IO functions wouldn't be needed
I remember there was a way of calculating the byte count without compiling it, but I don't remember the details
 
Well, the Memory Map is easy enough. It does compile it but you don't have to run it.
 
So use the memory map for the size and the interpreter for the execution?
 
Sure.
 
@Dennis thanks
 
3:51 PM
NP. Your Alex Recursive A. solution is really neat.
 
Looks like no one will do 3 or 10 :/
 
That's pretty much suicide. :P
 
You know every time I look at my challenges I think "That was really creative I did a good job" then I look at one of Calvin's challenges and start crying
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TimmyDPrint the Capitals without the Capitals code-golf kolmogorov-complexity restricted-source Whoa, whoa, whoa ... stop typing your program. No, I don't mean "print ABC...." I'm talking the capitals of the United States. Specifically, print all the city/state combinations given in the following li...

 
@Dennis I can still hope for a 420 solution that does them all :)
 
4:01 PM
Martin already solved all 12 in 259 bytes.
 
Well I mean from Python or Ruby or something :P
 
The standard 420 solution doesn't do many tasks at all.
 
@Dennis thanks. :)
finally shaved off something off those digit groups, but the '0- is annoying (and seems unnecessary)
wait, I has an idea
 
@MartinBüttner Uh oh
 
Would reposting some of the tasks as individual challenges count as dupes?
 
4:09 PM
heh AQ{~-Ace|}/N#!
@Calvin'sHobbies I've been wondering about that yesterday (and was considering making a meta post)
 
I mean, I'm not really interested in reusing my old ideas but I'd have no problem if someone wanted to make a task a separate challenge
 
Hey @DanielM. can you help verify that my string printer output is correct? I really don't want to make the mistake I made with my groovy program.
 
@MartinBüttner Should Q be q or am I missing something?
 
@Dennis of course, thanks
shaved off another byte
one more, and I've got 9 tasks
 
hi all
what's the latest thinking of challenges that combine golfing and speed in the scoring?
 
4:16 PM
@quartata Correct in terms of what?
 
@MartinBüttner but 4 to get ahead
 
I still want to avoid exponential time answers for my challenges
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I'm quite happy to be this close to Pyth :P (although I spent much longer on it, so Pyth can probably improve quite a lot)
anyway, gotta head off for now
 
@DanielM. That it runs the same on two BS2s and that I didn't write down the giant hex string it outputs wrong :P
 
@Lembik Are you talking complexity or actual timed speed?
 
4:18 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies that's part of my question :) I don't mind which to be honest
 
I'm not sure how to send it to you without other people seeing it...
 
@Calvin'sHobbies well to be more accurate.. whichever would be more popular
 
The reason why I ask was the output wasn't quite what I expected it to be.
 
@quartata It has to be ascii output though, unless the string itself is a hex number?
 
I want to make sure I didn't make a boo-boo when I sent it to my BS2.
@DanielM. String itself is hex.
 
4:19 PM
Ok
 
So it's like FA330 blah blah blah.
 
ok
 
@Lembik Restricting complexity is less hassle in some ways. Timing depends on the computer and all. And lots of times people will know when they aren't using a good algorithm (just not always).
 
@Calvin'sHobbies ok.. to put the opposite argument I feel there are people who aren't comfortable with thinking about complexity but like to make things fast :)
 
@quartata I know that you can send a compiled hex file, but that can be reverse engineered.
 
4:21 PM
@DanielM. Yeah.
 
here is my suggested challenge
Input: An n by n matrix M whose entries are 1 or 0.

Output: Yes if there is a permutation of the rows and columns of M so that M is a Hankel matrix and No otherwise. A Hankel matrix has constant skew-diagonals (positive sloping diagonals).
 
Tell you what. Lemme start a new room.
 
the score would be number of bytes in code but with restriction that it has to run in at most O(n^4) time at most
or it could be number of bytes times c where c is the exponent in the complexity
anyone got a view?
 
@Lembik I agree that lots of people won't want to think about complexity, so forcing them to calculate it is not ideal I think.
I'd say that if you can describe an algorithm that runs in O(n^4) (or whatever) then people will be able to follow it while golfing and be fairly certain that they're following the complexity rule.
Or you can set a time limit, but then fussy people will want you to time everything ;)
 
Lembik times everything. Problem solved :)
 
4:35 PM
@Lembik Have you proved this possible? None of the suggestions here were polynomial.
 
@DanielM. Did you run it? :3
 
Yeah
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayBeavers vs Llamas cops-and-robbers busy-beaver Cops Introduction You are the unobtanium dealers: you want to make all programs run for as long as possible so you can make more money off unobtanium guilded computer cases. Challenge Write a program to perform a task whilst taking as long as p...

Any advice? :)
 
4:51 PM
@BetaDecay Hmm I wonder if I have a version difference somewhere, trying import math,re;print zip(dir(math),dir(re)) atm
 
@BetaDecay Busy beaver is a bit like code bowling. Without tight restrictions on what exactly is acceptable, what prevents me from counting for 0 to Graham's number? Comparing two solutions becomes impossible, since you cannot really time any of them.
 
@BetaDecay Which minor version? I'm on 2.7.10
 
@Sp3000 2.7.2
@Dennis Well it was supposed to be a version of the Bowlers vs Golfers CnR... What about comparing them on IDEOne?
 
No wonder :P
 
I wouldn't have thought that there would be so much difference between the minor versions
 
5:04 PM
There's about 4 years there, during which __loader__ was introduced
I don't really feel like messing with my Python install though
 
My computer just gave a "cpu pipe A underrun" error.
 
@Sp3000 You've got it right either way though
 
Would it be okay if I just posted without testing then?
 
@BetaDecay Ideone has a rather short time limit. That doesn't really make sense for busy beaver.
 
@Sp3000 Yeah, sure
 
5:06 PM
Also, I still don't know what the robbers are supposed to do. Create an equivalent program that runs faster?
 
Thanks :)
 
@Dennis Yep, that's it
 
That's only possible if the cop answer contains something suboptimal. If I simply calculate Graham's number, it will run forever, without any obvious optimizations...
 
Hmm...
 
@BetaDecay Fun fact: Last time I wrote a Python cop involving modules I had the same issue because re introduced fullmatch :P
 
5:12 PM
@Dennis Oh wait, infinitely running programs are forbidden in the rules.
@Sp3000 Python is a strange beast :D
 
> nsfw
> need speed for wanted
I read that as "need for speed most wanted" initially
 
@BetaDecay Not forever in the the infinite sense, but in the we'll all be dead before it finishes sense.
 
@Dennis I see.. I've limited the run time to 50 years
 
@Dennis maybe do the robbering with smaller numbers
like test if its faster by calculating g1 instead of g64
although that's still too big
 
Considering that the average age of PPCG users is probably around 20-30, that means that people will be around 70-80 and hopefully still alive
 
5:19 PM
@BetaDecay 50 years...? Really?
 
What would you suggest? :P
 
Since scoring is done directly based on runtime, maybe something that you're actually going to run to completion?
 
@BetaDecay So, you're going to accept an answer in 2065? :P Seriously, I don't think there's an easy way to enforce that limit without doing actual timing, let alone decide which of the answers has the highest score.
 
12 hours?
Nah, that still seems a bit long...
3 hours
 
How are you going to time the submissions?
 
5:23 PM
69
A: How to get execution time of a script effectively?

Trudbertjust use time when you call the script. time yourscript.sh

Write a script which calls the program and use time run.sh
 
I know about time. Will you run them on your computer?
 
possible use for the KOTH server?
 
@Dennis I don't know of anything else that I could use... :/
 
My program formats all hard drives found. Time, please :P
2
I think doing it on your own computer is only really effective if you can dedicate it to that alone the entire time.
 
@BetaDecay Since the real objective is now closest to 12 hours rather than longest run time, it boils down to guessing how long it will take on your computer.
 
5:27 PM
Unless you have more patience than anyone here, 12 hours is pretty long for each and every submission if it goes anything like a usual CnR.
Even three hours would be too long for me to do ;)
 
Haha I guess I could leave overnight
 
Well right, but "overnight" would be over many nights most likely.
 
@Geobits I was anticipating at least 30-40 answers... What were you thinking? :|
 
That's what I'm saying. 12 hours per, 30 answers. That's over two weeks just for the cops...
Oh, you changed it to three hours. So only 90 hours of runtime for cops.
 
Oh christ... Are there any online services which can do this for me?
11 nights seems rather excessive...
 
5:31 PM
If you want it to be faster than using your own computer, it's going to cost you.
 
Damn, this challenge is falling apart at the seams...
 
AWS free? Kinda overkill for PPCG probably.
 
@PeterTaylor I made a mistake. I meant only row permutations. Thanks
 
@BetaDecay Timing is not your only problem. The Bash script x=0;for i in {1..10};{ x=md5sum<<<"$x";};echo $x computes 10 iterations of SHA-256. Adjust 10 as needed to get close to 12 hours.
 
5:39 PM
What's with hashing always causing problems for CnRs?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I think that's a nice idea actually. A challenge that gives you one free AWS account's worth of CPU time
 
@MartinBüttner That works for all integers up to 198e7281 - 1, I think. 0q{~+Amd}%2,^! would work unconditionally, but is one byte longer.
@BetaDecay It's not a particular problem of hashing. Now that robbers cannot actually invalidate cop answers, you could do the same with, e.g., sums of natural numbers.
 
@Dennis where does that bound come from?
 
I think the cop target of "do anything, closest to X hours runtime" is a bit odd, anyway.
 
trying to do GitHub again wish me luck
 
5:47 PM
Git 'er done.
 
@MartinBüttner That's 19 (sum 10) and 7 followed by 7281 9s (sum 65536). Characters are 16 bits wide.
 
@Dennis oh, right
I figured we could put reasonable limits on the data type sizes ;)
 
Unreasonable limits only
 
^ The true PPCG way of doing things.
 
5:52 PM
@MartinBüttner Reasonable limits are fine
 
phew ;)
 
On PPCG, you either do your program in ~10 bytes, or in 300.
 
You forgot Lenguage.
 
Hm. I wonder what the average code length per language is over all code golf challenges.
 
@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes, there are only two languages - Pyth and Java
 
5:54 PM
Only two that matter, anyway.
 
@AlexA. Ha! You've admitted it! Ostrich does not matter!
 
I want to see a Java Crammer
 
@Dennis And then there is Lenguage, right.
 
Pyth: "This is short and unreadable! +1"
Java: "This is excessively long! +1"
7
 
5:55 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies I can cram Java pretty well
 
@Calvin'sHobbies I think that's what you call the thing you pack down espresso grounds with
 
Mathematica: Oh hai, I'm so good cuz of all of my built-ins
 
MathematicaBuiltInWhoseNameIsSoLongThatTheBruteForceSolutionInPythIsShorter[]
5
 
5:57 PM
this is even true for simple stuff like primes
 
@AlexA. Better than Ostrich Crammer
 
@Doorknob Nothing matters.
@Calvin'sHobbies Well that sounds horrible, so I imagine a lot of things are better than that.
 
@AlexA. I have not noticed this effect.
 
Open your eyes and your mind
 
3
A: Use xkcd's formula to approximate the world population

quartataJava, 180 177 166 152 143 bytes Thanks Thomas for helping a noob out :) class D{public static void main(String[]a){int f=java.time.LocalDate.now().getYear();System.out.printf("%.1f %d\n",(3.*f-5755)/40,3*f-5720);}} Ungolfed version: class D { public static void main(String[]a) { int f ...

Case in point
 
5:59 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies I might consider a 3-tweet submission in Labyrinth
 
2
A: Time-Sensitive Echo

quartataGroovy, 202 bytes def b={System.currentTimeMillis()};def h=[];for(;;){def t=b();def s=System.console().readLine();h.add(s+" "+(b()-t));if(s=="")break};for(def s:h){Thread.sleep((s=s.split(" "))[1].toLong());println s[0]} Radical. Ungolfed version: def b = {System.currentTimeMillis()}; // Cre...

 

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