The Whiteboard

user41796

18:00

@JimmyHoffa it's easier than you might think

user41796

and not everyone needs "web scale"

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Not saying it's hard per se, but the manpower it requires isn't necessarily cheap. Think about putting a helpdesk person in charge of that. Then think about how many helpdesk people it would take for it to actually work. Then think about what level and salary a single person you'd have to hire to manage it.

@GlenH7 absolutely they don't, I'm just saying, it dilutes the word as to mean nothing to start calling every cluster a "cloud"

user41796

Hey, the marketer told me it was a cloud. Surely, he can't be wrong

Ampt

You have to wait for it to rain before you can get your data back

user41796

Alright, new debate. grunt vs. gulp. Go.

Ampt

18:03

I prefer groan myself

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Gulp is awesome, gulp is buggy, gulp plugins are highly error prone and made rather amateurishly. Grunt is solid, grunt is nowhere near as flexible or reasonable. Grunt is highly imperative. Grunt just works.

This is my experiences so far.

user41796

I think grunt is going to win then

Jimmy Hoffa

I'm still using Gulp though. It just makes a variety of things easier and more straight forward.

user41796

imperative and "just works" are totally fine in my book

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I think Gulp may win in time. It's a completely different approach - one that is far more straight forward and easy to follow. Gulps weakness is due in large part to it's age and the quality of current contributors.

user41796

18:05

but isn't this configuration that's mostly setup once and never touched?

Jimmy Hoffa

It's a better overall idea by a long shot.

user15026

I am starting to think people are naming things by opening a dictionary and stabbing it and going "yep this is what my programming thingie will be named"

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 nah. It's not even configuration. It's a workflow system. And it changes everytime you add or remove tools, which in the ever changing UI world is more frequently than for the back-end stuff

Ampt

@AshleyNunn How else are we supposed to name these things?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa that's fair

user15026

18:08

@Ampt Fair enough. :P

Jimmy Hoffa

the unfortunate thing with Gulp is I had to recode a few of the basic-tools most people will need to use in Gulp to get them to work consistently and reasonably because the people contributing (or who did at the time) were just very amateur in their skill level. The overall idea is far better than Grunt, they just need to attract more better people to work on it.

user41796

Yeah, that's a big blech. I'm not interested in working out the bugs in someone else's toolchain software

Duga

Ask this on programmers SE: programmers.stackexchange.com. This kind of question is where it needs to go to. — rayryeng 12 secs ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 Which is why I say, in time I think Gulp will win. Right now it's a bit painful, unless you're comfortable and have time for tearing shit apart and getting things just how you want, go with Grunt for now.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Were they good enough to accept your pull request?

Jimmy Hoffa

18:11

@GlenH7 Proprietary code. That said I should go do some actual workup on correcting some of the issues I had and giving them pull requests in my off time.

user41796

We definitely don't have the time spare to dig into things like that

user41796

And I'm pretty certain we wouldn't be able to return the code back to the overall project

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 yeah, stick with Grunt. It's currently more stable.

Duga

@rayryeng - No, this question shouldn't go to Programmers. It's just as off-topic there as it is here. This would be quickly closed and likely down voted at Progs. — GlenH7 46 secs ago

user41796

@JimmyHoffa We'll do that then, thanks for the feedback

Duga

18:12

@rayryeng This question relies on opinions and facts. It would be down voted and closed very quickly on Programmers. Please do not recommend that people cross-post their questions on other sites, ever. — Thomas Owens 1 min ago

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 yeah, I didn't do this by cloning any repos etc, I wrote from scratch the tools I need where the standard versions were buggy and used my own instead.

simple small stuff, but all the more reason why it shouldn't have been buggy to begin with... Being that I'm in Windows could have to do with some of that; may be that these things work better laying on POSIX

user41796

That's a good point too. Our builds are handled on a windows server.

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa you can submit pull requests for their proprietary code?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt my fixes were proprietary is what I meant, couldn't send them up

Duga

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it belongs on programmers.stackexchange.com — wallyk just now

Ampt

18:20

@JimmyHoffa ahhhh

user114359

The dangers of DIYing your house:

user114359

8

Q: How can it be dangerous to feed a water heater from two separate panels?

In a recent question, a user asked "Can a water heater be installed between two apartments and wired to both apartments' breaker boxes, effectively splitting the bill between the two?". One of the answers suggested that it was okay, and the poster of the answer went on to ask in a comment "How is...

user114359

Read the linked question and the -12 answer. Someone actually recommended <insert action that will burn your house down eventually>

user41796

Okay, just for the peanut gallery frauds. And no, I'm not an electrician nor expert, but I'll break it down enough for the pretenders. How is running a hot, neutral & ground from each box to a subpanel that's circuit breakered & running a single totally code line to the water heater wrong or dangerous? I said get an Electrician or Plumber to do it!!! Are you implying that two separate circuit breakers can't & haven't been used in a standard situation? There's no difference to electricity. Now, Bob & Trish know & only now it's dangerous. I hope you're all happy. Shame on you. I'll miss them — Iggy 15 hours ago

user41796

And then argued that it wasn't dangerous.

psr

18:27

@JimmyHoffa Naming, Necessity, and Hot Lead was pretty good though.

user114359

Binding neutrals between circuits from the same panel is forbidden by the NEC for good reason: binding neutrals between panels is pretty much the same thing but potentially worse. Even if unbound via external wiring, the water heater would do so internally. That could melt its electronics if anything goes wrong and cause bigger problems.

user114359

Is it really that hard to look this stuff up in the NEC?

Jimmy Hoffa

yesterday, by Jimmy Hoffa

> wa-sheeng!

Ampt

@GlenH7 I can't see the answer? what was he suggesting?

user41796

It's already deleted?!

enderland

18:34

-13

A: splitting a water heater bill

Oh, I see what you're doing. Now THAT'S clever! If you can find an electrician or plumber to do it. Then, YES. Very Generally, you just need a hot, neutral & ground of the right size & amperage to handle the full load, from each box & that'll split perfectly. Run it to a Sub-panel, preferably ri...

linked questino

Jimmy Hoffa

Can blues see deletions across the whole network?

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Nope

Ampt

oooh I was looking at the meta question

my bad

user41796

only where we have 2k (beta site) / 10k privs

user41796

Said user is currently suspended

Jimmy Hoffa

18:36

@GlenH7 never realized suspensions and their cool-downs were public

user41796

yep

user41796

For example, Goma is on suspension until 12/28/2017

Ampt

I get it now

user114359

@GlenH7 that name sounds familiar... what happened for such a lengthy suspension?

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 he becomes unsuspended? For what plausible reason? Ah that's just funny. I wonder if he'll be a full grown human by then. That would be strange. BTW awesome read in his profile

user41796

18:41

@Snowman Goma is one of the more notorious and original trolls to plague this site

user41796

@JimmyHoffa regular mods are limited in how long they can set a suspension, so any suspension will eventually run out

user41796

And probably not worth the effort to bug an SE dev for a much longer suspension

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I'd hardly call @Yannis a "regular" mod...

user114359

@GlenH7 why can't people stick to trolling on Facebook? So much easier and if you do it right there are no repercussions.

user41796

@JimmyHoffa There's regular diamonds and then there's SE diamonds

Kit Z. Fox

18:47

watching freaky people getting it on

user114359

@GlenH7 I'm looking at some other questions on DIY and it looks like he was posting low-quality answers and comments elsewhere, not just that one dangerous suggestion.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman did you read his profile? He's a nutter.

I didn't even look at his posts, his profile rant says it all

user15026

@GlenH7 Was he the PHP vs ASP person, or am I remembering someone else?

user41796

@KitZ.Fox er, WAT?

user114359

I mean if you post bad advice on Programmers or SO, your software might not compile or your coworkers might look at you strange in a design review. If you post bad advice on DIY and someone actually follows it, their house might burn down, or pipes burst, or something destructive.

user41796

18:48

@AshleyNunn yes

Jimmy Hoffa

tl;dr "PROFESSIONALS ARE TEH DUMBZ, I TOO MUCH SMARTS AND BETTAR THAN UZ! U SHUT ME UP CUZ I WIN AN U LUUSEEEE!"

user15026

@JimmyHoffa That last paragraph... O.o

user41796

@Snowman I'm willing to believe that the comments that earned him a suspension have since been deleted.

user41796

And / or they were shuttled off to a chat room somewhere

user15026

@KitZ.Fox You are having a much more interesting day than I am.

Kit Z. Fox

18:49

@GlenH7 Sometimes I randomly sing lyrics out loud while I'm working.

user114359

> 1 - Multiple Electricians said a GFCircuitInterrupter is not a "circuit breaker" & refused to either test it or prove me wrong for a super simple overload. They haven't a clue what GFCI's do!

Jimmy Hoffa

@AshleyNunn exactly. Nutter. "Here's my resume of crazy. In closing: <inchoate bellow of rage>"

user114359

^^^ Profound lack of understanding of electrical systems right there

Kit Z. Fox

@AshleyNunn It's surprising what people are into if you're just willing to ask.

user114359

and he claims to be a "pro"

user15026

18:49

@JimmyHoffa Pretty much. :)

user15026

@KitZ.Fox This is true.

Kit Z. Fox

Well, ask and not be creepy about it.

user15026

@Snowman He's one of those people I'd never want to touch my house, and I'd be scared to spend time in a house he touched in any sort of detail

user114359

OH MYYYY.... diy.stackexchange.com/users/47275/iggy

user15026

Yep, that's the paragraph I meant.

user41796

18:51

@KitZ.Fox I'm glad I have full enclosure headphones. As some of the lyrics would be quite offensive to my neighbors should they happen to overhear them

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman Pretty sure they interrupt the circuit if there's a ground fault.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 you and your Juggaloism, when will you learn...

user114359

Nothing says "I'm a tool" like ranting against a site's moderators. If you have a problem, there are better ways of voicing one's concerns than that.

Kit Z. Fox

chortles

coughs

Jimmy Hoffa

dies

That's the way it usually works amirite?

user114359

18:53

@KitZ.Fox they are not circuit breakers, though: they serve different functions and trip under slightly different circumstances. Right now, in my panel downstairs, I have regular breakers and GFCI circuit breakers. There is a difference other than an extra $40.

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman I know. I'm married to an electrician.

I was being funny, by describing it in a tautological fashion.

user114359

ah. My brother is an electrician, and I read the NEC once. Also, I stayed at a Holiday Inn.

MetaFight

Anyone here involved in any large volunteer organisations like hackerspaces, makespaces, or fablabs?

enderland

@MetaFight I just sent an email to our local makerspace :P hahahah

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman Which NEC? ;-) Is he union? Just curious.

MetaFight

18:54

@enderland Are you just joining, or an active member?

user114359

I was briefly involved in a local makerspace, but didn't have time to do much

enderland

@MetaFight not super active, curious if they have a laser cutter :P

MetaFight

@enderland yeah, those are great. We just got ours.

We're having a hard time scaling up (and horizontally too, I guess). I was wondering if anyone here had experience with that.

user41796

@KitZ.Fox I've read either the '05 or '08 version and updates from some of the others

Jimmy Hoffa

@MetaFight I could be wrong, but I've always gotten the impression these types of things are for college kids and DINKs.

user114359

18:56

@KitZ.Fox NEC 2008, although I have read parts of newer ones. My brother is in the IBEW.

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman What's his local? (do you know and if you don't mind sharing)

MetaFight

@JimmyHoffa I think it varies alot from space to space. Ours is mainly 25-35 year old men.

user114359

@KitZ.Fox No idea what chapter it is, and I try to avoid disclosing my geographic location online as much as possible anyway (you can find out if you look hard enough but I try not to make it easy).

MetaFight

We just moved into a big location, received money for nice tools, and even have a bit of paid staff to help with a prototyping service we're contract-bound to offer... yet development has been a bit slow. Our old management structure is becoming a bit of a bottleneck.

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman That's cool.

MetaFight

18:58

@Snowman We all know you're in the north pole.

Kit Z. Fox

Well, it's easy for me. IBEW 1253 covers most of Maine. Y'already know I'm a Mainer, so shrugs.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman you must live in Texas. I'd hide it too if I lived in Texas. I'd say hang tight help is coming but... there's no hope.

user114359

@MetaFight Thanks to ~~global warming~~ climate change, I was forced to migrate.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa If Texas weren't so damn hot all the time I would consider moving there.

MetaFight

@Snowman don't worry. Everything will soon be back to normal, once Obama (thanks!) is out of office.

Jimmy Hoffa

18:59

@Snowman that's ok, they'd turn you away at the border anyway.

MetaFight

How do I change my SE name? I want to be ThanksObama from now on.

Robert Harvey

I am working with VS2013+NTVS. Selecting functions from a list is possible (just checked). But this does not feel clean. It's just a workaround in order to find functions and methods, but does not give any relation between them at all. It's like you put all your clothes onto one big pile and then use a giant sieve to find your socks. You don't do that at home, do you? You place them all neatly into your drawers separated by what purpose they serve. Well, at least I do that :) — Marco Alka 2 hours ago

Think the following: you get an error on your productive terminal which says error: "value" not defined on line 3974:16. What part is broken? Is it critical and you have to open an emergency and work on it immediately or is it a small thing which does not really concern anyone that much and which can wait until next week? You add a breakpoint and the debugger starts to wildly jump thousands of lines for and back. You have to always take a look where you are now and how the code path unfolds — Marco Alka 2 hours ago

MetaFight

Did it work?

Robert Harvey

I have the same problam. ^^

He just needs a design-review after all.

ThanksObama

'murica.

(might need a page refresh to make sense)

Robert Harvey

19:05

Oh, hey. The design-review tag has been removed. Did we decide Design Review questions are off-topic?

user114359

user114359

'MURIKA!

user41796

@Snowman Needs more beef

user41796

And beer

Robert Harvey

Hoo, boy. Does the rest of the world really see America this way?

user41796

19:06

Shouldn't they?

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 beef bell? This should be a thing. I want to rattle a bell and have steak come to me.

user41796

The more I look at that image, the more and more apt I think it is

user114359

@RobertHarvey design ?

Robert Harvey

I'd swear we used to have a design-review tag.

@Snowman needz moar nintendo.

user41796

More appropriately titled as AMURRKA

user114359

19:14

ah, that must be where that originated.

user41796

yep, I'm happy she signed the piece. Was fairly easy to hunt down from there

Kit Z. Fox

Merka, like the plural of merkin.

ThanksObama

found this the other day...

ok, I'm done with this name.

user41796

@KitZ.Fox well played

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThanksObama together they make drunk-eyes 2016? (really unclear what political sentiment you're trying to express heh)

Kit Z. Fox

19:17

@GlenH7 bows

user41796

Just so wrongly appropriate

enderland

enderland has spent an hour researching laser cutters this is going to end poorly

ThanksObama

@JimmyHoffa No political sentiment really. Though, if you're asking, I'm a Bernie guy.

user41796

@enderland You know you want to buy one

Kit Z. Fox

Gotta love Bernie.

enderland

19:18

@GlenH7 that's the poorly part

MetaFight

woo, I'm back to MetaFight!

user41796

@MetaFight Never showed as changed in chat AFAIK

user114359

Nobody for President 2016!

user41796

@enderland They're getting into the pseudo-affordable range, aren't they?

MetaFight

I'm not American, so I don't really have a say... but I think Bernie would accomplish some good things in his 3 years as pres (will probably not live long enough to run for second term).

@GlenH7 dang. I was "ThanksObama" for a few posts.

enderland

19:19

@GlenH7 probably not for a bed size like I'd want. :P

user41796

@enderland You could get a smaller one and then use it to build a custom bed for those really large pieces you want to work on

enderland

Actually that's not a horrible idea

user114359

@MetaFight Bernie is currently a U.S. Senator and getting nothing done. How would losing his legislative privileges help him pass legislation?

enderland

none of the individual pieces I'd want to cut are that big

user41796

@Snowman Are any U.S. Senators getting anything done?

MetaFight

19:21

@Snowman I dunno... and I don't really care to start this conversation :)

Kit Z. Fox

Anybody know how to debug IE9?

enderland

@MetaFight help enderland find a cheapish laser cutter that can cut foamcore instead! :P

user114359

@KitZ.Fox douse it in gasoline, light a match, and switch to a better browser?

user41796

@enderland There are some long pieces that I'd love to create with a CNC mill, and I've put some thought into how I could index from one section to the next

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman I'm asking for a friend.

user41796

19:22

@KitZ.Fox MS no longer supports IE8 and IE9, so drop 'em. :-)

user41796

Otherwise it's F12 and pray

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah, I tried that already.

enderland

@GlenH7 I could probably cut the pieces in smaller chunks as no individual piece would have to be so big

user41796

@enderland Makes it easier to mix & match components that way

enderland

I'm still not 100% sure I could cut foamcore with one either, though I am fairly certain some combination of settings would work

ahhh perfect! found one for only $9k

Jimmy Hoffa

19:26

hey neat. I snagged the chat websocket during page load. I could write my own UI for this thing from here.

interestingly the client never sends on the socket, it's only used for receipt. Sends are all http posts

smart way of doing it really. Lowers the overhead and complexity of the push multiplexer while creating a feedback loop so you know precisely when your messages are broadcast to others

Kit Z. Fox

Man, how did I get to be this sexy?

enderland

19:43

local engraving shop has a laser cutter... hmmm

user41796

Check your local libraries too

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland cutting lasers is easy, just put something in front of it: Voila. Laser, cut.

enderland

@GlenH7 library?

user41796

yeah

enderland

I don't think I'm in a large enough town for that :P

user41796

19:45

The main one for my area has a maker space built into it, and I'm pretty sure they have a laser cutter

enderland

Yeah our maker space doesn't

Kit Z. Fox

Aren't there lasers in disc players?

I've got some sharks with a few spares. Maybe you could soup them up.

enderland

it sounds like this local shop would try for me (assuming I can vet that it won't release chlorine gas or other toxic things :P)

MetaFight

@KitZ.Fox justaddsharks.co.uk

user41796

@enderland yeah, just confirmed. laser cutter and 3d printer

enderland

19:48

#smalltownprobs

I need to look up the MSDS sheet for these too, this is going to be a nightmare

Jimmy Hoffa

var sayInRoom = function(msg) {$.post('/chats/21/messages/new', 'text=' + encodeURIComponent(msg) + '&fkey=' + fkey().fkey)}

yay me.

enderland

lol you are going to turn into a full fledged js programmer

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland if only. Beats the hell out of writing mind numbing C# which no modern places do anyway. Never want to be COBOL guy

I convinced our resident Ninja to go Node.JS instead of ASP.NET MVC, he seems to think it's been a wise decision

Kit Z. Fox

I keep trying to parse that and failing.

enderland

@GlenH7 calling customer service and they were able to send me the MSDS sheet via email... sweet!

Simon Forsberg

19:58

Is this something for Programmers?

-1

Q: 'Basic' compiler design for a toy C-like programming language called "Lupe"

I am writing a so-called basic (becase I don't believe compilers can be basic as such) compiler in c++, using visual-studio (not that it matters). It will be a C-like language originally, supporting only a small subset of its full feature set in comparison, but to which I can add more and extend ...

c++ performance parsing portability compiler

enderland

> Hazardous Combustion Products: Primary combustion products are carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, styrene, sulfur oxides, and hydrogen sulfide. Other undetermined hydrocarbon fractions could be released in small quantities.

> Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards: Produces dense black smoke while burning. Grinding, sawing or fabrication activities of the board can produce dust particles which may under certain conditions form explosive dust atmospheres that can be ignited.

Mat's Mug

hi!

enderland

doesn't look too bad. hmm, neat

user41796

@enderland MSDS are pretty standard to request anymore

enderland

@GlenH7 probably not from hobby lobby for foam board :P

user41796

20:01

@SimonForsberg I'm thinking "no"

user41796

As they're looking for a review over the whole thing, and not a particular aspect of it

user41796

So it would be too broad for Progs

enderland

> Hazardous Decomposition Products: None, except in fire. Thermal decomposition or combustion may produce carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and oxides of nitrogen. See Section 5 of MSDS for combustion products statement.

that sure reads like "don't worry about burning it unless you are in an unventilated room"

Kit Z. Fox

"or if you are vaping"

user41796

@enderland Does sound like standard combustion byproducts

enderland

20:04

@GlenH7 I mean I wouldn't want to sit there and breath it in right next to the laser, but.. it seems reasonably safe (if it was dangerous I feel like the language would be a lot stronger even on an MSDS sheet)

Jimmy Hoffa

@Mat'sMug Did you receive desired aid recently? You were asking for help on how to do something in here and I responded with some code but don't remember what it was about now

enderland

@JimmyHoffa I think he was slow to the draw on the code review migrate question ;)

user41796

@JimmyHoffa you ruined the all blue commentary streak we had going

Mat's Mug

@JimmyHoffa the folder tree question? this is what came out of it :)

user41796

@enderland He might just shift it to us anyway just to spite us

Simon Forsberg

20:05

@GlenH7 Ok, thx

user41796

Finally found their question: " I'm simply asking for opinions or first impressions. Am I going about this the 'right' way? Do you see any problems with my language defintion, the compiler structure? My plan in general?"

Jimmy Hoffa

Who needs all blue? I'm talking to you guys from the chrome console. Who's all blue now?

user41796

Too broad

enderland

@JimmyHoffa how do you set that function to appear there? did you edit the page?

user41796

This chat room is funny. 5 of 9 of the top row (for me) are mods.

enderland

20:07

/js noob

user114359

@GlenH7 and the rest are room owners

Jimmy Hoffa

I just pasted exactly the JS I said in the chrome JS console. It creates a local function named 'sayInRoom' which I can pass message strings to and it sends them along

Simon Forsberg

@GlenH7 Is that a hint for me to leave, or is it a hint for me to bring more mods here?

Mast

@Snowman Not entirely.

enderland

hello @Jimmy this is a test

oh cool

Mast

20:10

@end You only need 3 letters.

Jimmy Hoffa

letters letters letters

enderland

I was getting "undefined" errors when I loaded the function

sepideh

Following this question and this one, I've come to the point that Do I really need to use git?

enderland

@Mast yeah don't remind me. going into the latex chat room is horrible (@end pings me) :P

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland that's not an error, that's the return code. The function is void, it returns nothing.

enderland

20:11

@JimmyHoffa wat

sepideh

Before starting I just thought github.com is a place to share code just like File Exchange but then I learned about its version control capability and I got more interested.

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh How about using Sourcetree, or any other external git application?

sepideh

I'm not a professional programmer. I think that I will never get involved in a big open source software creation project or if I do some day, I will learn version controlling from my colleague.

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh You can use git without using github though.

@sepideh Learn version control NOW!

Thomas Owens

@sepideh Once you have the need to learn version control, it's too late.

sepideh

20:14

@Simon well github is more famous and I'm interested in learning

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh try.github.io/levels/1/challenges/1

sepideh

@ThomasOwens why too late?

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh If you are on Windows or Mac, I suggest using sourcetreeapp.com . If you are on Linux, ~~you should know git already....~~ use tortoisegit

Jimmy Hoffa

@SimonForsberg where's the repo for Duga? Is it a clone of the Zirak one?

Thomas Owens

@sepideh Because you've already had a problem that version control would have solved. Like making a mistake and not being able to back it out easily.

Jimmy Hoffa

20:16

(or whatever the guys name was)

enderland

be careful answering that @SimonForsberg, jimmy has gone crazy on javascript recently :o

user41796

@SimonForsberg More mods are always welcome

enderland

this room either is a mod hangout or people who hangout here become mods, both are true

Simon Forsberg

@JimmyHoffa Zirak? Never heard of. Duga was developed by me and skiwi from scratch. github.com/Zomis/Duga There are plans to make Duga become a docker image to make her much easier to setup and test and develop.

sepideh

@Simon in fact my problem is something else and I asked it completely here but they told me it's better be asked in chat

enderland

20:18

@JimmyHoffa I wonder if their rate limiting is client or server side... :P

user41796

@sepideh I remember that remark

user41796

:-)

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh No, you don't need to use github.com. You can run git locally on your own machine, without involving anyone else. Everything you do is kept private by default.

user41796

Short answer - if all you're doing is throw-away stuff where you don't mind rewriting everything if you screw it up, then no, you don't need a VCS like git

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland server for certain. Everything we see comes across the websocket

Robert Harvey

20:20

@sepideh Yes, because fame/popularity is obviously the best way to choose a new technology.

user41796

But if you're doing things where you don't want to pay the price of a complete re-write if you fsck it up, then yes, you need a VCS of some sort. Github / bitbucket / pick-your-provider are all equally valid choices

enderland

@JimmyHoffa ah, makes sense

Simon Forsberg

> Or sometimes I have different versions of the same code in different places and I don't know which is the most recent version. They are disorderly outspread in different folders of my laptop or my external hard drive. Most of them do exist because in different times I have backed up an earlier version of the project not to lose it completely if I make a mistake and then I've forgotten to delete that backup.

Yes, you need git. Badly.

enderland

or dropbox

Jimmy Hoffa

@SimonForsberg cool. I just want to make the handshake easy to accomplish because that's the biggest nightmare. After that I can get the websocket and line up the message postings and you can have the easiest API for all of it..

enderland

20:20

which might be a better solution

Jimmy Hoffa

by you I mean, me, or whoever wants to script random interactions with chat

sepideh

@SimonForsberg then how much time do I need to learn git?

Simon Forsberg

@JimmyHoffa but I'm using Java, not JavaScript. In fact, I'm not even using Websockets. Duga mostly only posts things, and when she polls recent chat messages, she makes some kind of HTTP request. If you make something in Java that can use Websockets in SE chat though, I am very interested in using that for @Duga.

user41796

@sepideh honestly not that much

enderland

@sepideh have you ever used a version control system?

Simon Forsberg

20:23

@enderland ugh, no, not Dropbox. I used that for a while to develop code on multiple machines, became messy when Dropbox added a bunch of "Simon Forsberg's conflicted copy"-files. Git is so much better than Dropbox, for both version control and for developing on multiple machines.

Thomas Owens

@sepideh The time it takes to work through this will get you well on your way.

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh The basics? Less than one hour. The advanced stuff? You'll learn it when you need it.

user41796

First chapter of this online book appears to be enough to be dangerous with git in a short period of time

Simon Forsberg

Mostly you will only need the basics anyway.

> So this can also act as a portfolio for me, if anyone wants to know about my coding ability which I have mentioned in my resume, he or she can directly refer to my projects on github.com.

sepideh

@GlenH7 for the time being I'm coding mostly with matlab for my thesis and I think for the current situation it's enough to learn how to use git with matlab. then I need a really good tutorial. something that enables me use github desktop with matlab in 24 hours

Simon Forsberg

20:25

that is a good reason to use git ^^

Robert Harvey

Better learn the command line first. Git only makes sense in a UI context if you know and understand the command line options, and what the terms "Commit," "Push," "Sync," "Rebase," etc. mean.

sepideh

@enderland no

Simon Forsberg

I have been contacted by recruiters who liked my github contributions a lot.

enderland

@SimonForsberg are you a board gamer?

Jimmy Hoffa

@SimonForsberg for the posts you still need a handshake to get the fkey used on the posts - and I presume the cookie bag had to get filled with some authentication token or other such auth info needs to be present on the posting as well

Simon Forsberg

20:26

@sepideh Use Git, use Matlab. No need to use git with matlab. Git and matlab can be used as two individual things.

@enderland depends on the game. Why do you ask?

user41796

@sepideh If you're working on a thesis, you need a VCS of some sort

Jimmy Hoffa

WebSocket aside, that negotiation is the hardest part of the puzzle. Just posting strings to a URI to send/edit/delete/query messages is easy

enderland

@SimonForsberg I'm stalking your github :)

user41796

Heck, I kept 4 separate copies of my thesis while I was actively working on it

Robert Harvey

@SimonForsberg Matlab has its own VCS?

sepideh

20:27

but I haven't been successful though

1

Q: What's wrong with my installation process of Git to set it up for matlab?

Based on the answer that I received here and what is written here, I've done the following steps: I've downloaded Git-2.7.0-64-bit.exe and ran it: After completing the set up wizard, based on what is told here, because I don't know what's the purpose of sandbox folder, I've created a .gita...

git matlab github

Simon Forsberg

@enderland What repo did you find that caused the questiono?

Jimmy Hoffa

If you look at the websocket itself you can see the frames coming across are extremely easy data to understand

sepideh

2

Q: How to set up Git source control for matlab?

This is the first time I'm using Github. I want to use it as a tool for sharing code and organizing the different versions of my code. I've downloaded Git for Windows and installed. I've also installed Github Desktop as the GUI client. I'm studying ProGit book and GitHub Desktop Documentation to ...

git matlab github

enderland

@GlenH7 yes. SO MUCH THIS. if you are working on thesis work you have to have some sort of version control so you can save your work and commit snapshots

@SimonForsberg github.com/Cardshifter/Cardshifter

sepideh

@SimonForsberg what do you mean?

Jimmy Hoffa

20:28

> {"r21":{"e":[{"event_type":1,"time_stamp":1453321676,"content":"@SimonForsberg what do you mean?","id":50711956,"user_id":81803,"user_name":"sepideh","room_id":21,"room_na‌me":"The Whiteboard","message_id":26983241,"parent_id":26983191,"show_parent":true}],"t":‌50711956,"d":2}}

for example

Simon Forsberg

@RobertHarvey No. That is exactly why I am suggesting to use them seperately. Just like you can use Git and Notepad seperately. No need to use git with notepad (and good luck on that happening anyway)

Robert Harvey

Oh, I see.

Simon Forsberg

@enderland Oh, that. Yes, that's a Trading Card Game me and some people at Code Review are working on every now and then, if you are interested, we got a chat room for it:

Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)

Minesweeper Flags, Zomis' games, PDB, MTG, Cardshifter, and al...

2

1

Jimmy Hoffa

interesting, the multiplexer replaces the :1234234 with the actual previous message owners name before pushing it down the websocket

sepideh

chatting so fast. I didn't understand anything :)

Simon Forsberg

20:31

@sepideh You don't need to integrate git with matlab in order to use them together. Write some stuff in Matlab, switch to your Git UI (whether you are using a console window or Sourcetree or something else), make a commit, then switch back to Matlab and continue coding.

sepideh

please treat me like a beginer

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh What part of my message above did you not understand? How can I explain it better?

sepideh

@SimonForsberg I've been thinking about it

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh Have you ever used Winzip, Winrar, or anything to compress all your source code to a single file?

user41796

Simon's suggestion is the easiest and quickest way to get started with protecting your code

sepideh

20:33

I'll do it and if you let me I'll chat with you or someone else here individually if I need?

@SimonForsberg yes of course. but a lot of that compressed source codes :)

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh How did you integrate Winzip/Winrar with Matlab or whatever program you wrote your code in?

rhethorical question meant to make a point about what using git can be like^^

user41796

@SimonForsberg I prefer to zip up all my code before committing to git as well. :-D

sepideh

I just typed code in mfiles and when I finished, I placed all of them in a folder and zipped the whole folder

Simon Forsberg

@sepideh I don't hang around in this chat room a lot. I can mostly be found here or here. I'm quite sure that you have folks here that can help you though. In fact, @amon helped me when I was quite new to git.

@sepideh Exactly. In git you type code in mfiles and when you finish, or want to save your work, you use git to store them in your version history.

It's not advanced really, you just need to get started with it.

user41796

It's almost as if it were meant to be easy to start using... :-)

Jimmy Hoffa

20:41

@SimonForsberg where in there do you do the logging in? I see the BotConfiguration which holds login info and a stack api key (all coming from "Environment" ? Is that a groovy standard class for accessing your systems environment variables?), but don't see immediately where they're used

enderland

@JimmyHoffa the startup script, I think

wait that was smokedetector

Simon Forsberg

@JimmyHoffa That's Grails. I'm honestly not a big fan of Grails, I hope to modularize the project later on.

Jimmy Hoffa

I think it's in the StackExchangeChatBot now that I look closer

Simon Forsberg

@JimmyHoffa the logging in is done in the implementation class, StackExchangeChatBot.java or something.

bingo

Coding Projects and Duga Heaven :)

Transcript for