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4:00 PM
@laura figured out next week's yet?
 
@rfusca not yet. if there's anything you all are particularly in the mood for, let me know by tomorrow morning :)
otherwise I'll choose one at semi-random
 
i was thinking maybe one of the cuisine ones?
 
Please nothing bread-related.
@rfusca Ah seems good to me :)
But which cuisine? :p
 
@rfusca me too. i think it's gotten enough traction to try one of those
 
Jay
@Laura or maybe a specific meat that isn't commonly used
@Laura Asian cruisine?
lol im a bit bias i guess
 
4:02 PM
@Jay Hmmm I wouldn't do that.
 
i have to go to a meeting for a little bit, but i'll catch up on the transcript when i return so please suggest topics you're DYING to ask about :)
 
i think asian cuisine actually
it should generate good questions
 
@rfusca Did you already think about the borders? :)
I mean would just 'rice' be included?
 
Jay
@rfusca I might be able to ask/answer some question maybe without @rfusca cluttering everything
 
I actually have an asian cuisine question :p
 
4:04 PM
sigh everything must be difficult
 
Of course.
 
Jay
@Mien only if rice in used in a asian cruisine
 
@Jay yup
 
Jay
I think the main definition to sort out is the defintion of asian cruisine
would it include sourthern asia like indian cruisine
and such
 
india is asia
unless you really mean the chinese, japanese etc... Then use "eastern cuisine"?
what about Belgian cuisine? :D
 
4:06 PM
if its on this list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
 
Jay
@Mien there are plenty of countries in asia that is not considered asians per se
 
@Jay Why not? :s
 
@rfusca I wouldn't define it per this list
 
middle-eastern cuisine could be fun too... But I don't know much about it.
 
@rumtscho sigh
 
4:06 PM
Cyprus cuisine has nothing in common with Chinese or Indian
Maybe Asian is a bit too broad
 
@rumtscho fine, then we don't do asian
 
Jay
middle eastern are in asia
 
@Mien Middle eastern food is probably my favorite.
 
do Chinese or Japanese or Thai...
 
Jay
but you wouldn't consider them asians
 
4:07 PM
Probably we should do Northeast Asian (Japanese+Chinese+Thai bundled)
 
@Jay Sure you would.
 
Jay
if you ask me if an iranian is asian. i would say no
 
Yeah, well, here it is more of an exclusive category, like "everything that's not European or American" (not much African food here).
 
But not their cuisines.
@rumtscho Isn't that south east?
 
@rumtscho so if its tagged with any of those three?
 
4:08 PM
@rfusca Yes, or if there are other similar ones, I would lump them in too
perhaps Korean
 
@rumtscho Hmm "north" to exclude Indonesian?
 
vietnamese also.
 
well, we have to define the similar ones...and laura isn't gonna want a list of 20 tags to track
 
Only one of those wouldn't generate enough traffic
 
But we agree that a question about rice isn't good enough?
I mean only rice.
 
4:09 PM
And including all of Asia is not a good cooking topic
 
@Mien yes
 
You know, it is like defining an object in software - we should go for cohesion and loose coupling.
 
Jay
@Mien yea thats the same as a question about vegetable isn't vegetarian
 
I would simply stick with geographical regions: "Asian" is literally anything from Turkish to Indian to Chinese; "East-Asian" is Indo-China, China, and Japan.
 
@Cerberus yes, I would think that Indonesian goes into a different lump together wiht India and Philipino.
 
4:10 PM
Indonesian is commonly considered Asian here too.
 
'Oriental' would fit
 
we can do east asian if we can limit it to like 3 tags
 
but I'm not sure if its seen as perjorative in the US
 
@ElendilTheTall Yeah, oriental or eastern is fine too.
 
Jay
Alright, oriential-cruisine is more definitive and managable
 
4:11 PM
@rumtscho btw, we already have a popular asian cooking tag
 
Oriental to me says Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and Indonesian
 
I don't know if East Asian will include or exclude India (both geographically and culinary)
 
and Korean
 
@ElendilTheTall Not Indian?
 
4:11 PM
Far Eastern?
 
Jay
@rumtscho i dont think it does
 
@rumtscho Exclude!
 
@Cerberus nope
 
Indian is not East-Asian to me?
 
Jay
Indian food is quite different from oriential cruisines
 
4:12 PM
if we randomly define it in here, its gonna be hella confusing to people. We have to pick something that is already defined
 
@ElendilTheTall That's about the meaning I had in mind, I don't know which tag expresses it the best.
 
@ElendilTheTall Hmm strange.
@rfusca Agreed.
 
Oriental = far east
 
I think perhaps strictly geographical regions are the only objective choice?
@ElendilTheTall Not to me!
 
@rfusca I think there is some kind of understanding (even outside of the site) which Asian cuisines are similar to each other, for example that Indian is unlike Chinese.
 
4:13 PM
Chinese-Indian fusion dishes!
 
If we populate a tag wiki with info based on this, it should be a reasonable base.
 
Egg drop lentil curry.
 
@rumtscho you're giving the general populous far too much credit and underestimating their desire to win a contest by redefining things
 
Jay
@Sobachatina puke
 
Sweet and sour chicken masala.
 
4:13 PM
@ElendilTheTall Oriental is definitely not an ideal word in the US: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient#American_English
 
@rumtscho we shouldn't be defining a tag for the sake of a defined group cuisine we make up
 
Jay
@Sobachatina lol stop this sacriledge! My grandmother is turning in her grave right now!
 
Red bean paste rasamalai.
 
@rfusca we'll have to retag according to wiki it they go too far and put Azerbeidzhan in Oriental
But I wouldn't mind if they ask a Mongolian cuisine question under Oriental, even if it is a dish never seen in China or Japan.
 
Jay
new tags have been made in the past for the contest. i dont see why we cant make a new tag called Oriental Cruisine
 
4:15 PM
@Jay they have?
 
We haven't made tags, but we had to redefine pastry a lot.
 
Samosa pot stickers.
 
@Jay We made the tag wiki for pastry, not the tag itself.
@Sobachatina having fun? ;)
 
Jay
@rfusca im pretty sure the tag cheese-making was created
 
Szechuan paneer.
@Mien Yes. Thank you.
 
4:16 PM
What would be considered a Indonesian or Filipino dish?
 
@Sobachatina are you using a random generator for mapping a Chinese qualifier with an Indian dish name?
 
Since a few here mentioned it's different.
 
@rumtscho Sort of- if you consider my brain a random generator.
 
@Sobachatina I do.
 
reading over the orient wikipedia article - its pretty obviously a bad idea. It has pretty different meanings depending on the culture
 
4:17 PM
Should we have a Meta question on this?
 
Far East then?
 
Is Yellow People Food pejorative?
 
Far East is pretty clear, I think: everything to the east of Bangladesh?
 
@Cerberus it wouldn't get decided in time for tomorrow's contest
 
@rfusca Ohh I see.
 
4:18 PM
@Cerberus I think yes, sounds like a topic where more people than the ones who happen to be in chat should decide
 
@rumtscho Agreed.
 
@rumtscho thats fine, but it won't be tomorrows then
 
@rfusca What do you care? You probably won't be eligible to win next week's contest anyway.
 
@rfusca Hmm. Not that we haven't had a change during the contest was running, but of course, this is suboptimal.
 
would "herbs & spices" generate some questions?
 
4:20 PM
@Mien Yes- and most would be closed as polls and recipe requests.
 
"What can I substitute for marjoram?"
 
@Sobachatina lol
 
If this is a polarizing topic, we could write the question now and use the decision one week from now, and pick something easy for tomorrow.
 
Bacon?
But not sure there would be a lot of question about it.
 
@rumtscho agreed
 
4:21 PM
@Mien People don't question bacon.
 
What kind of cuisine does South America have?
@Sobachatina :D
 
@Mien we'll get all the "fun" types with it, but I don't know about good questions.
 
South american is well defined, but again, very diverse across the continent
 
@Mien if we do Asia next round, I don't think we should do regional for this one.
 
Jay
@Sobachatina Yup people just eat bacon and believe in a higher being for producing such wonderful bounty
 
4:22 PM
Maybe we should do something seasonal?
 
what about eggs?
 
Tuber vegetables?
 
@rfusca And isn't "Latin American" more desirable?
 
Eggs is my favorite ingredient anyway, I was glad when I saw BaffledCook propose it.
 
@Cerberus It's the same in Dutch, no? ;)
 
4:23 PM
@rumtscho we're a worldwide site - do we have 'seasonal' food?
 
There are already a ton of egg questions.
 
@rfusca It is a global world - if it is in season in one hemisphere, it gets exported to the other one
 
@Mien Yup! But, to me, "Latin American" is a more relevant category than "South American", because I imagine Mexican, Caribbean, etc. cuisines to go together with Brazillian, Columbian, etc.
 
@rumtscho wow, so not true for many places
 
There are two times a year I can get fresh plums in the supermarket, February and September
 
4:24 PM
@Cerberus But you also have a Middle American, no? ;)
 
@rumtscho ya, because we both live in uber developed parts of the world
 
@Mien Yeah, but...is that a good food category?
 
@Cerberus No. I'm not suggesting that.
 
@Cerberus Hmm, isn't Carribean better on its own? I don't know.
 
Mexican food is too related with US food.
 
4:25 PM
@rfusca How many subsaharan users do you think StackExchange has?
 
@rumtscho I don't know much about it. I just meant that S.A. didn't seem the best category to me.
 
@rumtscho i know at least one
 
Dairy would be too broad?
 
@rumtscho A bunch from South Africa?
 
@Mien Not really. It is identified uniquely even though it is popular up here.
 
Jay
4:26 PM
@rfusca Generally the demographic of this site is people who live in relatively developed part of the world... otherwise they have more to worry about than cooking questions
 
dairy isn't terrible
 
I think that we can pick a vegetable (or a group of them) which is relevant for the majority of users right now, and it will still be more or less relevant for the rest of the users at some future point.
 
@rfusca Myes, but we had 'cheese' already.
 
true
 
@rumtscho Yes, or just 'fruit'.
 
4:27 PM
@rumtscho i don't have a problem with that statement, but there's no reason to pick something based on seasonality
 
@Jay Haha, but how about questions like "I have ten children and half a bag of rice for the week: how do I not let them starve?"
 
Jay
@rumtscho I'm thinking subterrean tuberlike veggies
 
@Cerberus budget-cooking
 
@rfusca I was typing that!
 
@rfusca Yeah!
 
Jay
4:27 PM
@rfusca I'm down with budget cooking
 
budget cooking sounds very meta to me though
 
Jay
that brings back to mind the never ending soup question...which made me throw up a little in my mouth
 
Insect cooking?
 
I'm afraid budget-cooking will yield a lot of substitution questions
 
Jay
wild weed salad!
 
4:28 PM
@sob thanks for the edits on that slash answer btw
 
@rfusca It's not like we're going to use something only available in a very short time of the year, like "baby goats". But, if we make "apricots and peaches", it makes sense to make them in June, even though there will be people who probably have them available at some other point of time.
I don#t think I've ever seen a good question tagged with budget-cooking here
 
@rumtscho shrug I guess so
 
Isn't Martin a male name?
 
There's also dried apricots, jams...
 
@rfusca "slash answer" sounds like a category of cooking fan fiction.
 
4:30 PM
Most are on the lines of "I have these few ingredients, what can I do with them"
 
Jay
@Gigili yes and martina is the female counterpart
 
@Gigili yes, it usually is. There are female forms like Martina or Martinique or Marta depending on country.
 
@Jay Or Martine.
 
Jay
@Mien Might be regional... I've never seen martine before
 
@Sobachatina lol indeed
 
4:32 PM
@Jay French/Belgian/Dutch
 
what about 'sauces'
 
@rumtscho The nice thing about seasonal ingredient questions is that the people for whom the season just passed or is upcoming will hopefully still have it on their mind - things they did, things they want to try.
 
@rfusca Fine with me :)
 
Jay
I need to pee. Hold on. nobody talk while Im away :)
 
@rumtscho I just saw a female Martin, was fun.
 
4:33 PM
@Jefromi exactly my point, it is still a thing most users cook with, even if it is not a pressing thing for a minority of the users living in unusual (for our base) location
 
We have a term in Belgium, translated to English it's 'lost vegetables'.
 
@Gigili You saw them where? Because for example, in Bulgaria, there are transliteration rules which drop some pronunciation details from the original.
 
It means vegetables that were used 100 years ago, but now you don't see them a lot.
Parsnip, jerusalem artichoke, ...
Or are they still used a lot where you live?
 
So, the names Michel and Michelle are male and female in French. In Bulgarian, they are both written the same, and if you back-transliterate, you don't know which one was it originally.
@Mien parsnip is not hard to find in supermarkets here
@rfusca sauces sounds good
 
@rumtscho Yes but how many times did you buy it?
 
4:36 PM
How do we define it?
@Mien about the same as celery.
 
I would also include "condiments'.
@rumtscho Oh huge difference here :)
 
Do we include the sweet caramel sauce put on ice cream under "sauces"?
 
agreed on sauces ?
@rumtscho totally
 
@rumtscho Why wouldn't we?
 
@rfusca best idea I have heard so far
 
4:37 PM
@rumtscho On SO. =) Actually I'm not sure as I didn't check the gender myself.
 
I am trying to find edge cases we might not want.
 
Jay
@Gigili then how do you know she is a female?
 
gravy?
 
@Laura - we're gonna have to post a meta question to help define some of the geography related tags for doing a contest. Can we do 'sauces' starting tomorrow?
 
Jay
@Mien i consider that sauce
 
4:38 PM
gravy, yes
 
If we all agree that we want them, it is even better, we won't have to explain to users why we detagged their question.
 
@Jay Of course it is.
 
Yes, I am for gravy too.
 
I am going to state up front that I am going to spitefully avoid using the French names of sauces whenever possible.
White sauce, cheese sauce, gravy, etc.
 
@Jay From his avatar. He's a female.
 
4:39 PM
basically if its a semi-liquid substance that is poured over or dipped in, its a sauce
 
The pan juice from braising (if not further cooked)?
 
@rumtscho if you're using it as a sauce, then yes
 
Mayonnaise is unavoidable but it has such a prosaic meaning in English now that I'm fine with it.
 
@Sobachatina What do you mean?
 
@Gigili there are some users who use a picture of a famous person as an avatar because they assume everybody will know it is not them
 
4:39 PM
@rumtscho 'I braised this, the pan juice I'd like to use it as a sauce, but its too <something> - what do I do to fix it'
 
How do we define the margin between sauce and salad dressing?
 
Jay
@rumtscho once again that is very much like questions regarding vegetables as vegetarian. If it is asked in the context of sauces, then its on topic. if it is just about the pan juice, then it is not
 
Only the intended destination?
 
@Gigili I'm not a penguin.
 
@Mien I can't spell French words. Too many superfluous letters. (English has the same problem and I would probably feel the same about it if I hadn't learned it as a child.)
 
4:40 PM
@rumtscho Hard. You put mayo on salad as well.
 
Jay
@rumtscho I consider salad dressing a condiment
 
But how many question can there be about salad dressing anyway?
 
Jay
which we said was good
 
@Mien I guessed so.
 
@gigili I know which user you mean. He is male, the avatar is Selena Gomez, a singer.
 
4:41 PM
@rumtscho I don't see how they are that different.
 
He uses the avatar as a joke.
 
Jay
@rumtscho ahahaha
 
i think for this context, if we let salad dressing be a sauce, it would be fine
 
I don't mind saying that any question with lettuce in it is disqualified.
 
it really is
 
Jay
4:41 PM
I love you like a love song baby... i, i love you like a love song baby...
 
@Sobachatina lol
 
And a question with iceburg lettuce may result in the user being banned.
 
Jay
@Sobachatina whats wrong with lettuce again?
 
Maybe it is better if we name the contest "sauces and salad dressings" outright, so nobody has to guess what is included and what isn't?
Do we even have a tag for salad dressing?
 
@rumtscho Um, you're right.
 
4:43 PM
@Jay Nothing (except iceberg which is gross) It just seems like an amusing idea.
 
Jay
@rumtscho we do
 
I like iceberg lettuce.
 
Jay
@Sobachatina It's not that bad
 
@Sobachatina really? It is my favorite kind of lettuce
 
Jay
My dad does a sauteed version of ice berg lettuce that is to die for
 
4:44 PM
Or European Iceberg Lettuce is a lot better than in the US?
I wouldn't die for lettuce.
2
 
Jay
@Mien i dont think so. I think he is just biased against it
 
There are no real 'biases' when it comes to food I'd say.
It's all a matter of opinion.
 
@rumtscho - i think you're making a mountain out of a molehill with salad dressings
 
@Mien you are the psychologist here, so what is the difference between a bias and an opinion?
 
I'd say you are aware of your opinion, but unaware of your bias.
No, scratch that.
A bias has a negative connotation.
Although it can be positive as well.
 
4:46 PM
@rfusca OK, let's keep it at sauce then and see if something unpleasant crops up. Worst case, we have to hit someone on the finger in the middle of the contest.
 
Jay
@Mien i think bias as neutral
 
@Mien I try to be aware of my biases.
@Jay A mental bias is always undesirable.
Bias is neutral in statistics or sewing.
 
Well, you have a bias towards certain people perhaps, but that doesn't make it your opinion.
 
Jay
i think opinion is a explicit expression where you state it whereas bias is implicit and is implied based on something else you say
 
You can have an opinion that you don't express ;)
But a bias is indeed more implicit, but it doesn't have to be.
 
4:48 PM
we were soooo good, for so long today, either food or stuff about the site....I see the beginning of the end now. biases vs opinion will somehow morph into the mating practices of sea turtles or such within the next 5 minutes.
 
@rfusca Do you know how anemones reproduce? :D
 
Jay
@rfusca what about the mating practices of cougars?
 
It's pretty cool to view.
 
Jay
I'll leave it to you to decide whether I am referring to the animal or to the "animal"
 
@rfusca human cognition isn't enough offtopic for you?
 
4:49 PM
@jefromi it's odd, as it's perfectly acceptable here
 
@ElendilTheTall Here too :)
 
So... photography people.
I know photo people tend to be snobs. Don't deny it.
 
ok...?
 
@Sobachatina quiet, prole
 
@ElendilTheTall lol
 
Jay
4:51 PM
@rfusca Ohhh i think he took offense to that
 
And in fact @rumtscho said once that having more photos on the site would be terrible because we plebians don't know how to take photos that don't offend the eyes.
 
@Sobachatina We can be snobs without being photographers too.
 
Or something like that.
 
@Sobachatina sadly she did
 
@Sobachatina you take my jokes seriously?
 
4:51 PM
or somebody did, but it sounds like her
 
So I just picked up my camera, put it on macro mode, and took a picture of my bread.
 
Jay
@rumtscho i dont take anything you say seriously after the immersion blender comment
 
@rfusca :X
 
The color is off, the lighting is not ideal, but the photo communicates what I wanted and doesn't make my eyes bleed.
Is it really that bad to have amateur snapshots of food?
 
Jay
@Sobachatina Oh so that was what the red liquid coming out of my eyes was when i saw your bread
 
4:52 PM
post it and be judged @Sobachatina !
 
definitely post it
 
I did already but I will again for this conversation:
 
oh, that
 
@Sobachatina it doesn't make my eyes bleed either
 
4:53 PM
I don't think thats a terrible picture
 
If @rumtscho was actually kidding then I suppose I don't have a real question.
 
And the part about "better no photos than ugly ones" was really a joke
 
lol
 
@Sobachatina The verdict is....
 
Jay
BTW how important is a wire cooling wrack
 
4:54 PM
i wish we would have more pictures, I just think it would make the site more interesting
 
acceptable
 
Jay
somehow i havent gotten myself one of those yet
 
@jay quite important, helps the bottom crust dry out a little
 
@Jay keeps the bottom of your bread from steaming soft
 
@jay good for resting steak as well
 
Jay
4:55 PM
@rfusca ok thanks
 
I think that there can seriously be case where a picture is worse than no picture - and that would be the case where it is so bad that it doesn't show what it should be showing.
 
@ElendilTheTall yup
 
I seriously feel like I shouldn't learn anything about photography. It's one of those things like appreciating music and poetry- all you can see is how everything around is terrible.
 
@Sobachatina lol, well I don't6 know about that
 
Like a picture trying to show the size of holes in a crumb, but so out of focus that you can't recognize the holes.
 
4:55 PM
Judging from the comments on photography forums.
 
i think it makes you equally appreciate when something is really good
 
Jay
also, I made poolish about 4pm yesterday. the book said i can keep it for up to 3 days i nthe fridge. do you guys know what the optimal time would be to use it? I'm sure 3 days it will start to be too fermented and under a certain time, it would be fermented enough
 
i see shots now that are good, and realize the amazing amount of work that went into them
 
@Sobachatina If you follow that through to its natural conclusion, the only way to be happy is to be a gibbering ignoramus
 
@ElendilTheTall - looks @Jay - are you happy?
 
4:56 PM
@ElendilTheTall You make a convincing argument. :)
 
@Jay a night is enough for fermenting poolish
 
More is OK but not necessary.
 
It wasn't as open as I would like but acceptable.
 
@Sobachatina you appear to have a good eye photographically speaking
a nice angle there
 
4:57 PM
@Sobachatina Obviously, you are good enough not to fall under such an example.
 
considering all, its not bad
 
You just need a bit more light or some post-processing and you're golden
 
a bit underexposed there is your worst sin
 
Jay
@Sobachatina seem a little flat
 
If you zoom in you can see all the different grains.
 
Jay
4:59 PM
what kind of cooling wrack should i get? stainless steel?
 
@ElendilTheTall This is my wife's camera- she just got it for Christmas and doesn't have a flash yet.
 
Jay
is there any kind i should avoid that rust easily?
 
You don't need a flash necessarily
 
@Sobachatina looks good - what gluten content was that again?
 

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