The Frying Pan

Sobachatina

12:00 AM

Mechanically separate, heavily salt, bread and fry.

Aaronut

@derobert That's a good idea too, although you could do it without meat glue by doing it cordon-bleu style.

rumtscho

@Aaronut he doesn't even have to do that, my local supermarket sells this stuff, cut into fine slices, with marketing which suggests it must be a premium product. Probably las more salt than even he wants, too.

Aaronut

@derobert I was thinking more like cat food, but both are good choices.

@rumtscho You mean Spam?

Er... Spicken?

derobert

@Aaronut well, I was going to suggest cordon-bleu style, but then seal it up. Wouldn't want any salt to leak out!

Sobachatina

Salt crusted roast chicken. Then eat the crust with it?

rumtscho

12:02 AM

@Aaronut no, "fine slices" for sandwiches. Made from mechanically separated meat mixed with hefty amounts of salt and transglutaminase, shaped sausage-like, and then cut as thin as prosciuto. Folded nicely, so it looks there is more of them in the package too.

Aaronut

@Sobachatina I think "crust" is too weak a term. We're talking about inserting one chicken breast into a mason jar full of salt, then pressure-canning it.

Sobachatina

@Aaronut That's sounds like it would be fantastic for an upset stomach.

rumtscho

Sobachatina

@rumtscho- I asked a friend in Russia to find me the recipe for some local bread.

docs.google.com/document/d/…

rumtscho

yup, new recipes use colorants.

Sobachatina

12:06 AM

It actually has coffee and cocoa in it.

Aaronut

Damn it, I really wanted to post a clip from Futurama's "30% iron chef" but YouTube sucks now, can't find anything on it anymore. :(

Sobachatina

I'll try a derivation of it but I want to try the recipe that you found first.

rumtscho

While researching, I found that in Bulgaria, there has been a law passed, which forbids the use of coloring agents in bread.

Jefromi

Some color from molasses too, looks like?

Sobachatina

We'll see what happens. I'm planning on going out to get rye malt tomorrow.

derobert

12:07 AM

@Aaronut wow, actually, I think you might get more salt in the chicken by just leaving that mason jar in the fridge

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Would the law consider cocoa a coloring agent?

rumtscho

Obviously, before that the bakeries were accustomed to selling black bread full of coffee grounds, iron gluconate or food coloring.

@Sobachatina Don't remember exactly, but it is possible that, if they protected the name of a specific type of bread, also created a whitelist of ingredients which may go into it if it should have the name

Sobachatina

@rumtscho That seems plausible.

Aaronut

Actually, that's the wrong episode. Still can't find a clip though. Best I can do is a quote.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Good! Any colouring substances whatsoever?

rumtscho

12:09 AM

Surely they didn't forbid bakeries to use cocoa on a general basis. But they must have used something against tricks.

@Cerberus don't remember the exact article.

Cerberus

Here only burned wheat (or some other grain) is allowed.

Which is horrible.

rumtscho

so @Sobachatina it is possible that the bread you ate in Russia has had coffee grounds too, and that the authentic Russian bread eaten fifty years ago just was the brown-grey colour we find unappetizing.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho I'm starting to think that that may in fact be the case.

I just assumed that the recipes that had cocoa were western adaptations.

rumtscho

@Cerberus sorry, but Dutch bread is horrible regardless of whether it has burnt grain or not.

Cerberus

What's unappetizing about brown-grey?

@rumtscho Not all! Expensive bread is good.

rumtscho

12:12 AM

@Cerberus OK, I didn't look hard enough to find good bread.

Cerberus

Where did you look? Most bread is bad, yes.

Sobachatina

It is odd that this recipe calls for dry bread crumbs added with the flour.

rumtscho

But when a Dutch guy told me that, now he lives in Germany, he doesn't have to bake anymore, but when he studied in Sweden, he had to bake his own bread because it was unacceptably bad, I was thunderstruck.

Cerberus

But if you have € 1,50-3,00 to spend, you'll be OK.

Sobachatina

I wonder if it is trying to have a sort of sourdough effect or if it is a texture thing.

rumtscho

12:13 AM

Seems like Swedes have bad bread even by Dutch standards - ouch.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Hmm Sweden? I had no idea.

Hehe.

I don't remember much about German bread.

Is it heavy?

rumtscho

@Cerberus I spend even more on bakery bread here, but supermarkets often don't carry anything above standard stuff. Luckily, standard stuff here is good.

Cerberus

I like my bread airy and moist.

@rumtscho Really? Hmm...

rumtscho

@Cerberus I read somewhere that Germany has more bread styles than any other country

Cerberus

Funny. But good.

rumtscho

12:15 AM

You can find lots of good breads here, and a good choice even in a smaller store.

Cerberus

French white bread and German heavy/dark bread are known as good here.

rumtscho

It is typically German to have a bread with lots of rye in it.

Cerberus

Hmm is that good?

rumtscho

@Cerberus I don't like it much, because rye bread is sourdough, and I don't like sour bread.

Cerberus

Here certain supermarkets put sunflower seeds in everything. So disgusting.

Sobachatina

12:16 AM

Time to go. Have a pleasant night.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Hmm I can never remember what sourdough is like, except that it must be sour. I have probably eaten it some time or other. Is it airy? Heavy?

Bye Soba!

rumtscho

I like sour as a taste, but bread is the wrong place for it. Also, sourdough has some acetic acid, which I can't stand.

Cerberus

Hmm.

rumtscho

@Cerberus more associated with heavy breads.

Cerberus

Oh. I hate heavy breads.

Then it may be like what is sold here as Alison bread?

rumtscho

12:17 AM

Most people here got the sourdough bug a week ago and started their own sourdough starters.

Cerberus

Haha.

Poor you.

rumtscho

@Cerberus I have no idea what "Alison bread" is

@Cerberus No, when I say "here", I mean the chat.

I don#t have to eat it, you are probably my closest neighbour from chat.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Can't find a picture.

@rumtscho Yeah I got that. Still poor you.

rumtscho

@Cerberus I don't mind hearing about things I don't eat.

Cerberus

Do you like white vinegar?

rumtscho

12:20 AM

I still find the mechanics behind it fascinating.

@Cerberus I don't eat any kind of vinegar.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

I sort of don't like vinegar too much.

So I can sort of understand.

But that's as far as I can go.

rumtscho

Lol, I don't expect you to start disliking vinegar or sourdough only because I don't like them.

Cerberus

I'm sorry.

I'm trying.

But hollandaise...

rumtscho

@Cerberus I make mine without vinegar.

Cerberus

Lemon juice?

rumtscho

12:22 AM

White wine reduction, or lemon juice + water + herbs.

Cerberus

Right.

I agree that lemon juice is usually better.

Somehow vinegar has this hard, merciless acidity.

rumtscho

I drink wine, and I eat lemons, so there usually is a good way to substitute vinegar.

Cerberus

Do you like eating a slice of lemon?

Sucking/chewing out the flesh, I mean?

rumtscho

@Cerberus It is not the acidity, it is that the smell reminds me of the kind of solvent no sane person would eat. Like nail polish remover.

Cerberus

Hmm.

I don't even know what that smells like.

How about mustard?

rumtscho

12:25 AM

@Cerberus No, this is too strong/acidic for my taste. But I like lemon taste and aroma when it is dissolved a bit.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

rumtscho

@Cerberus This is the other thing I hate - raw brassicas. And most of the cooked ones.

Cerberus

I like the extreme acidity of a slice of lemon, somehow. It is so sour that it starts to taste sweet, after a few seconds.

rumtscho

I eat broccoli, and supermarket-bought radishes. That's about it.

Cerberus

But mustard tastes like vinegar—but that's not it?

Jay

12:26 AM

so i dont know if my bread is wrong or not

it came out to be less wet that i expected

rumtscho

I like the extreme bitterness of wormwood tea. It doesn't start to taste sweet, but after the initial shock - and the first sip is always a shock - it unfolds very complex aromas.

Jay

i wasn't able to easily stretch the dough

rumtscho

@Cerberus I hate the seeds themselves. There is mustard made with wine instead of vinegar, but I still don't eat it.

Cerberus

@rumtscho Hmm never tried that, sounds interesting.

@Jay Hmm that is strange.

Jay

also, do i need to let the yeast out and warm to room temp first or was i able to directly use it out of the frudge

Cerberus

12:28 AM

How much water, how much flour?

rumtscho

@Jay If you measured it per the book, it should be OK.

@Jay directly out of the fridge

Cerberus

@Jay That shouldn't make much of a difference, because the yeast will warm up very quickly.

Jay

@rumtscho ok

rumtscho

I made BBA ciabatta once, didn't have any problem with stretchiness

Jay

and im gonna be staying up pretty late tonight

><

Cerberus

12:29 AM

@rumtscho Huh, I thought ciabatta was supposed to be wet?

rumtscho

@Cerberus yes, it is

Cerberus

@rumtscho pondering expression

rumtscho

Mine was wet enough, and stretched a lot without a problem.

Cerberus

How wet?

rumtscho

@jay you relaxed it enough before stretching, right?

Cerberus

12:30 AM

80 %? 100 %?

Jay

@rumtscho uhhhh did miss a step

rumtscho

@Cerberus don't remember, he doesn't give it completely.

Cerberus

Huh?

"He"?

rumtscho

For this formula, he gives 100% flour, x% poolish, y% water. I haven't calculated the pure water percentage.

Jay

no it told me to do the stretch and fold immediately after transfering from the bowl into the working surface

rumtscho

12:31 AM

@Cerberus reinhart, the author of the book @jay is baking from.

Cerberus

Ahhh.

I see.

rumtscho

@Jay you can't stretch directly after kneading, the gluten is all seized up. Relax it for 5 minutes, then stretch.

Maybe you overkneaded it a bit, I don't know. Did you go per hand or by mixer?

Jay

@rumtscho the book liiiied!

rumtscho

@Jay bad book, spank it.

Jay

@rumtscho ohhh my thought exactly ;)

@rumtscho also should i stretch and fold in the same direction every time

rumtscho

12:37 AM

@Jay I don't know, it got too long and slim for me, so I did it once in one direction, then turned 90° and did again to get a nice shape.

But probably not canonical.

Actually, I think this is a nice front page question - does it matter in which direction you stretch when shaping ciabattas

Jay

@rumtscho not just ciabatta but any bread that uses stretch and fold

rumtscho

@Jay probably yes, as long as you specify that you are interested in shaping by s&f as opposed to kneading.

Or maybe it is the same for both, I don't know

Also, what about the star? Is the chat so slow today that you have to resort to such far-fetched associations?

Jay

lol i actually didnt even catch the dirty comment when you said that haha

i wonder who did star it tho

rumtscho

@Jay It wasn't intended as a dirty comment

Only after I saw the star I tried to find a reason for it and failed

Then assumed that the words "too long and slim for me" were enough for you to interpret as dirty.

Jay

12:58 AM

After it has rested it was a lot easier to stretch

i really hope it turns out well though :(

rumtscho

If not, you will have learned for next time.

These recipes with the detailed instructions are so good, it won't flop completely anyway.

Even if it doesn't work as intended, it will still be edible.

Unless you make some terrible mistake, of course. (remembers her broiler)

Jay

so i have to rest the dough anotherr 2 hours and then proof another hour

ahhh

and its already 8pm

Jay

1:12 AM

Wow i didn't realize how much homosexual undertone there is to cardcaptor sakura

rumtscho

@Jay what is cardcaptor sakura?

Jay

@rumtscho a kids cartoon

rumtscho

@Jay I guess it depends on how you look at it

I wouldn't have recognized anything suspicious in Batman, for example

Jay

@rumtscho no there are some balant homesexual things going on

theres this little boy who is competing with sakura for a older boys attention

the older boy and sakuras brother seem to have a thing going on

and sakura's best friend is always lezzing out on sakura

lol

what is the nmae of the base that ciabatta normally start with again?

rumtscho

biga?

Jay

1:17 AM

ok right

tnx

Aaronut

1:28 AM

@rumtscho Are you kidding, out-of-context starred posts are our proudest tradition.

rumtscho

@Aaronut This one doesn't sound dirty enough, I am afraid we are diluting our quality with suboptimal stars.

Aaronut

It looks pretty dirty to me in that context. In a few instances.

It's not just the first few words, it's the whole thing.

rumtscho

Hmm. The 90° turn requires a stretch of the imagination until a suitable explanation is found.

And the final "to get a nice shape" sounds slightly out of place.

Aaronut

I admit it would have been more fun if it was a 180° turn, but it's not that hard to imagine... unless you don't get out much

Eh, suit yourself.

I'm curious, do you argue with your dates when they try to flirt or generally have fun?

rumtscho

@Aaronut Let me see, the last time I had a date he almost started a flamewar with me. In the middle of the main street.

I think the fact that we were both giggling the whole time made the situation easier than on the Internet.

Just because we both noticed nobody is serious about it.

What I am more worried about is that he sent me this xkcd in a mail:

When designing an interface, imagine that your program is all that stands between the user and hot, sweaty, tangled-bedsheets-fingertips-digging-into-the-back sex.

Aaronut

1:39 AM

I do not know where you get this idea that I was talking about a penis, clearly my reference to casing should have indicated that when I said sausage stuffing I was referring to the process of making sausages out of ground entrails.

Fun, fun, fun. (That was my impression of rumtscho.)

Jefromi

@rumtscho That shouldn't take half an hour to write!

rumtscho

@Aaronut I sincerely hope that I don't really sound like that

Aaronut

@rumtscho Well it is how I imagine you, with a German accent of course, but I decided not to stoop so low as to try to spell it with one.

rumtscho

The fact that I have gotten a second date with most people I've ever had a first date with makes me hope I'm not all that awful :)

Aaronut

@rumtscho Lol, now I am in no way saying you're difficult to get along with IRL, but just throwing it out there that getting a second date essentially proves that you're a female.

That's... really all it takes when you're dating guys.

rumtscho

1:43 AM

@Aaronut and I had hoped to built some self-confidence. Sigh.

Maybe I should be happy with the proof that my behaviour is feminine enough on a date to get a second date without them doubting that I am a tranny.

Aaronut

@rumtscho I see no reason why it shouldn't give you confidence. Just be confident for the right reasons. ;)

@rumtscho We may be horny, but we aren't blind. Well, most of us aren't. We can tell the difference between a woman and a tranny.

Jay

@Aaronut lol im glad i decided to pop in for a second

Jefromi

Wow, this is all very confidence-building...

Aaronut

Oh come on, it's the men who need confidence, we always have to make the first moves.

Jay

@Aaronut most of the time, not always

rumtscho

1:47 AM

@Aaronut I've heard some of them are good enough to fool people. Also, I'm not notable for acting like a woman, even though I am physically one.

Aaronut

@rumtscho I'm glad you added that last part.

rumtscho

@Aaronut You know, out of my current four suitors, I made the first move with two.

Aaronut

You just said "suitors".

rumtscho

Modern dating is more ... dynamic.

@Aaronut I don't know what to call them.

Jefromi

@rumtscho One of my friends told me "Transmen pass in the streets; transwomen pass in the sheets"

Jay

1:50 AM

@rumtscho dates?

rumtscho

Not all of them are boyfriends-to-be, I don't plan to keep them all.

Jay

gotta catch them all!

you make us sound like collectables...

rumtscho

@Jay Gets a bit confusing because the meeting itself is also called "a date" in English

Jay

i object to being objectified

@rumtscho yea thats true

Aaronut

@Jay I love being objectified. "Ass candy" is my favourite.

Jay

1:51 AM

@Aaronut what, you got a nice ass?

rumtscho

@Jay I don't collect anybody.

Jay

@Aaronut if its not too private, how old are you again?

Aaronut

@Jay Well, I do, but that's exactly the opposite of how that would normally be understood.

Eye candy is candy for your eyes... ass candy is... yeah.

Jay

@Aaronut wait... huh? lol maybe im just being thick but huh

Aaronut

@rumtscho Other options would include boy toys, flames, beaus, and fuck buddies.

I've also heard us referred to as "possibilities".

Jay

1:54 AM

@Aaronut thats a bit demeaning

Aaronut

@Jay You take this stuff really seriously, don't you?

rumtscho

@Aaronut Now you assume that I am sleeping with them. Suitors may sound old-fashioned, but it doesn't go in that direction.

Jay

I've gone on 2 dates where the girl approached me. so yea, i dont think its just guys who make the first move

@Aaronut nah, i dont take anything seriously

nothing i say in this room should be taken too seriously

Aaronut

Women demean with words, men demean with positions.

Jay

oh men definitely also demean with words too

Aaronut

1:57 AM

@rumtscho Well why not? Have some fun already.

Jay

@Aaronut Heh this is the same woman comtemplating whether to go to a nude bath house as a second date

rumtscho

@Aaronut Actually I do have fun, but not with all of them.

@Jay I still plan to remind him of the nude bathhouse, just waiting for a better time to bring it up.

Jay

@rumtscho so you do want to go? I guess it as good as any time to scope out his equipment

Aaronut

Welp, I'ma start drinking, see ya.

rumtscho

@Jay I think you go too far in your assumptions about how much I objectify now. I don't care about "scoping out".

Jay

2:04 AM

@Aaronut lol have fun. i alraedy started hours ago

@rumtscho I know some women say they dont care but i think all women care a little that he is decently endowed... not tiny and not base ball bat sized

rumtscho

@Jay While size makes some difference (but not as much as men seem to assume) I don't care about getting the information early through luring him into a sauna or similar. I am perfectly happy of making my decision whether I want to sleep with him based on other factors.

Jay

@rumtscho haha girls are so emotional

Jefromi

2:32 AM

Oh my goodness y'all are still talking about this...

rfusca

3:12 AM

pvc to the rescue

my door handle broke while loading bread in a 500 degree oven

a trip to lowes and some pvc later

this weekend, some black paint

Jefromi

nicely done!

rfusca

3:29 AM

@Jefromi Thanks!

i thought it turned out pretty well

the door handle actually holds the whole oven door together. I was in the midst of loading the oven and suddenly it fell apart on me

Jefromi

Whoa, I wouldn't have expected that!

rfusca

@Jefromi ya, the door is two pieces, hinged at the bottom, and two bolts go through the back and screw into the handle, keeping the two pieces together.

Jay

4:00 AM

@rfusca, my ciabatta is almost done

it rose decently

but i doubt my ciabatta will have the drastic huge bubbles as seen in pictures on google

rfusca

@Jay my first didn't, don't worry, just keep trying

Jay

@rfusca and i messed up the stretch and fold a bit

rfusca

really?

Jay

not sure if you read the transcript

rfusca

no, i didn't, it was long

Jay

4:01 AM

but according to the book i was suppose to stretch and fold immediately after i kneadeed and mixed to dough when i transfered to the working surface

but it was still kinda of seizing and i didnt let it rest before doing stretch and fold

rfusca

ah, ya

Jay

but the book didnt tell me to so i didnt know

so i had a hard time trying to stretch it

but after i rested it for like 30 minutes it stretched decently

but i only did a legitimate stretch and fold only once rather than twice

so i think that might affect the final product

i guess well seee

also, the ciabatta doesn't look very dark

i guess i didnt have enough steam to form a good crust

rfusca

steam is tough

try covering it

Jay

just a couple more minutes and its done

but i have to wait a whole 45 min to let it cool down ><

rfusca

ya, good luck

i rarely wait lol

Jay

4:05 AM

haha probably gonna eat both loaves before its cooled down

pictures coming in just a few moments

hmm the recipe only said to bake for 10 + 10 minutes

that doesnt seem very long

and my bread isnt very dark.

rfusca

ciabatta isn't normally very dark

Jay

hmmm i forgot to take a picture of the bread dough pre bake

o well

rfusca

tsk tsk tsk

Jay

lol upside down

rfusca

at what point is that

Jay

4:13 AM

This is my poolish right after i mixed it

rfusca

ic, what kind of flour are you using?

Jay

This is my poolish after sitting in fridge for 1 day

that is the bread lol

im gonna cut it to see how the inside look

rfusca

ya, thats a bit too light

do you have a thermometer? whats the internal temp

most lean dough should go to 200

baking on sheet, i'd think you'd need to do it longer, since it doesn't hold temp as well

Jay

wow super duper fail lol

rfusca

picture, picture, picture!

Jay

4:18 AM

well at least the flavor is good lmao

rfusca

i think you need to read the front of the book first

Jay

lmao

rfusca

proper shaping, shouldn't have done that

Jay

probablky

but the main difference is my dough looks drier than the photos

rfusca

well, why is there the wierd, butt cheeks on the side of it

Jay

4:20 AM

it's okay, I have more flour... hopefully experiment 2 turns out netter

rfusca

seam side, down

Jay

@rfusca yea i think it was from when i was doing the stretch and fold

because my dough was too dry it turned out like that

rfusca

odd

very, odd

watch a few youtube videos, seriously

Jay

but it taste very good nonetheless, quite soft and chewy

rfusca

it will help

good

Jay

4:23 AM

hmmmmm

so i just looked at the recipe again

the additional water it said to add was 6 tbsp or 3/4 cup

when i was making it i auto assumed they were the same amount and i only used 6 tbsp

but 3/4 cup is 12 tbsp

i bet i couldve added that extra water and it would have helped in the finished product

And just fyi, I know the pictures I posted were eye-bleedingly bad. Sorry

the bigger pictures are so out of focus lol

rfusca

@Jay no worries

@Jay also, ciabatta as your first bread is like trying to learn math by starting with calculus

Jay

@rfusca lol probably

i kinda just flipped to that page and thought it would be fun to do haha

and dont worry i dont get disheartened easily. I plan on making bread that look as good as the photos eventually

:P

rfusca

the first one, anadama bread is actually a pretty good placed to start

its easy and good flavor - it will give you some confidence

Jay

0

Q: Can these settings bake a cake?

I've tried baking so many times with this kind of oven settings but they never work. The exterior of the cake looks fine, but when cut opened, they look as if they were never cooked. The oven doesnt come with bottom heat. I used fan settings (right top) and then turn it on to the top heat fan se...

oven

are there actually ovens that dont let you set temperature?

rfusca

@Jay i really don't understand that question at all

Jay

4:30 AM

@rfusca thanks Ill definitely try it

@rfusca Me neither

I guess Ill just flag it and let the mods figure it out

actually i dont know what to flag with lol so nvm

rfusca

if you want to try a lean bread like ciabatta, try pain a l'Ancienne. It requires less work

Jay

@rfusca okie dokie

rfusca

what brand and type of flour are you using - it matters

Jay

king arthur unbleach bread flour

rfusca

whew, big boy flour, add a lil' extra rest time for it

Jay

4:34 AM

@rfusca what do you mean big boy flour?

why does it need extra rest time

rfusca

it's quite high in gluten

Jay

i see

rfusca

KA recommends its AP for most artisan breads

Jay

is there a brand you recommend?

i see

rfusca

definitely King Arthur

Jay

4:35 AM

but get the AP instead for the bread?

rfusca

i've recently switched from Gold Medal to KA and its definitely nice

most of the time, the AP is easier to work with

and its got plenty of gluten

Jay

i see

I actually used up most of my flour so i need to get some more

I asked my sister to pick me up some flour

she got two 2 - 5lb bags of whole wheat flour ><

Got any good whole wheat flour recipes lol

the only thing i use it for is my zucchini bread which uses 1 cup whole wheat and 2 cup ap

these two bags are gonna last me forever

rfusca

there's wheat recipes in BBA

i just did the light wheat

Jay

ojh is there? i havent seen them yet

rfusca

try the light wheat loaf

its really, really easy

Jay

4:38 AM

i got it this weekend so i really havent gotten a chance to read it page to page. just random jumps from pages to pages when a recipe references a certain area

rfusca

only 1 day too

Jay

ok thanks

hmmm powdered milk

rfusca

you should use powdered milk, I just replaced the water with milk

Jay

@rfusca i havent seen powdered milk since when i was in china and couldnt get actual milk

Thanks for you help bread sensei

I am off to bed

rfusca