The DMZ

Rory Alsop

17:11

@DavidFreitag PEBKAF in this case, as I was sitting on the floor:-)

Thomas Pornin

@DavidFreitag Apple hardware is very expensive for its power.

It does not make much sense to buy Apple hardware if you do not run OS X (or iOS)

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag because 7 didn't work. In other ways.

Thomas Pornin

If all you want is a Windows (or a Linux) then buy a PC; you'll get better performance for fewer dollars.

Rory Alsop

And trying to fix it became such a chore I figured I'd just get the new OS and it would help...

Simon

@ThomasPornin Have you built a Hackintosh?

My new computer will be one of those.

Rоry McCune

17:18

@Simon I thought you were all about the Gnome3?

Rory Alsop

Win 7 had many problems with drivers - most devices did not appear correctly, or at all. It couldn't address all the RAM, in fact the only things that worked okay were the display and the network (although I had to manually configure the network)

Simon

@RоryMcCune pls, I run Ubuntu at work and OS X at home.

Also Ubuntu for my media center at home.

Rory Alsop

But win 10 so far is worse in weird ways. It only recognises one screen, and that only as a generic (non 4k) monitor, keyboard and mouse are still not coping well, and most reboots are a double reboot (ie it sort of power cycles, but then sits at blank screen until I get bored after ten or fifteen minutes and press reset)

Even the install - am on my 4th attempt now, doesn't flow smoothly. It fails on basic things all the way through

Simon

I'm glad that every PC I've built was UNIX-based, damn.

Rory Alsop

And in non-pebcak ways

Yeah - Unix just works

And is easy to sorry if something does mess up fit some reason

Rоry McCune

17:24

mmm, my experience of PC hardware and Linux is that support for new kit is generally worse than windows

Linux will get there but it takes a while

as in a lot of cases it's not the vendor writing the drivers

Simon

That's what you get for buying some new pumped up kicks.

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune That's the reason I bought a Mac. I like the approach: plug it, it works. Or maybe it does not work, but then it is hopeless.

Vendor-provided drivers are a logical idea, but they end up being atrocious in many ways.

Simon

@ThomasPornin What kind of hardware doesn't work?

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin true with OSX is works or doesn't which is largely in the hands of Apple. Linux is nice in that, with enough effort, almost anything is possible.

Thomas Pornin

@Simon I tried an old scanner; it was not recognized. I just bought a new one, and saved a lot of time.

Rоry McCune

17:28

Later Windows versions (for me) have been pretty good, but you still get the walls of things that are outwith your control to manage

Simon

@ThomasPornin Yeah, all in one printers are cheap nowadays.

I remember when I still was a young man, printers were expensive.

Rory Alsop

I couldn't use Apple. When it "works" I generally hate it, because it doesn't work the way I want it to

Yup

:24474931

Simon

@RoryAlsop Are you having a seizure roro?

TildalWave

17:43

@Simon if HE is having a seizure why are YOU twitchy? :D

Simon

pls

kalina

I can't believe we're still having a PC vs Mac discussion

you guys are real nurds

shouldn't you be doing something useful with your lives?

and while we're at it, Star Wars (all of them) is crap

TildalWave

like stroke a pony?

Rоry McCune

@kalina s/is/are not/

Simon

Oh yeah lads I actually watched all the Star Wars about 3 weeks ago.

kalina

17:45

@RоryMcCune no

Simon

I'm a cool kid now.

kalina

@TildalWave if I had enough free time to dedicate to the looking after of a pony or a horse, I would have one

Simon

pls, you don't even have kids.

kalina

do you have a point?

Simon

I bet you're clever enough to figure out my point.

Maybe I'm mistaken though.

kalina

17:47

well I think I've figured the point you were trying to make but there is no way a pitiful mortal like yourself who works a standard 9-5 job for somebody else could begin to comprehend what time is or how running your own career takes up so much of it

so I guess I missed your point

Simon

I work 7h30 to 15h30-16h, noooooob.

kalina

pls that's basically the same as 9-5 but with a timezone applied to it, noob

#rekt

Simon

What? I cannot hear anything, I've got a banana in my ear.

kalina

O_O

why do you have a banananan in your ear?

that isn't where you insert banananas

Simon

It just happened.

Like I was typing then BAM, banana in my ear.

kalina

17:51

you should get your ears checked out

Simon

Nah they're fine. I might have ruined them a bit when I was younger but now I'm fully aware of audio damage.

I even wear plugs at music shows @@@

kalina

:O

that's almost like being responsible

the amount of random people who ask why I wear earplugs when out

Simon

Almost, yep.

Idiots.

Rory Alsop

I wear ear plugs at out practice sessions, buy not when I play a gig. Practice is much noisier than playing on stage

kalina

liek pls, I need my ears to do my job

TildalWave

17:53

seriously, what's wrong with leek?

Simon

Sometimes I remove them in the middle of the show just to see how loud it is and it genuinely hurts my ears.

kalina

@Simon nope, I never even bother

it's sad that even at the bigger events the sound systems are rarely all that good

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop So are you still having problems?

TildalWave

or celery

kalina

and when you are at an event where the sound system is good, it's usually way too loud

Rory Alsop

17:54

@DavidFreitag that's rhetorical, right? :-p

David Freitag

Sorry for the delay I was in meetings all morning

Simon

@DavidFreitag pls dovid, afternoon is morning for you.

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Haha, no sorry I haven't been keeping up with the transcript

kalina

@DavidFreitag well it is pretty hard

there's so much of it

David Freitag

@kalina So hard

Rory Alsop

17:55

@kalina twss

Well, you did

kalina

well yes, as a matter of fact I did say that

how very observant of you all

Simon

pls

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop So go through the current hardware setup. You have the monitors plugged into the GPU, yes?

kalina

has it sunk in how completely unenthusiastic I am about it?

well?

Rory Alsop

Yep

kalina

17:56

is it in yet?

David Freitag

You have the most recent GPU drivers installed, yes?

Rory Alsop

Well, after trying many times, this time I'm going to try the install with just one monitor plugged in

kalina

it's so long

Simon

.

kalina

my new graphics card

I had to remove a drive bay

Rory Alsop

17:57

@DavidFreitag hopefully - it doesn't really do that properly for me

Rоry McCune

@kalina about what?

David Freitag

In which order did you install drivers from the disks provided? Should be Motherboard, then GPU, then everything else

Rory Alsop

I have tried selecting various ones to download from evga

kalina

not really, I was seeing if I could get three stars in a row in a completely innocent and not star baity manner

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop No, no you want drivers from nvidia not from evga

kalina

17:57

@RоryMcCune "that's what she said"

Rоry McCune

@kalina what's with the excessive star-baiting?

kalina

@DavidFreitag pls everybody knows you install sound first

so you can listen to musics while installing the rest

@RоryMcCune that wasn't star baiting

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Before you nuke from orbit, try this installer (if you haven't already) nvidia.com/Download/Scan.aspx?lang=en-us

Rоry McCune

@kalina pls

Rory Alsop

Motherboard disk installs everything. GPU disk not so much, so I'm downloading from there. The disk that came with the graphics card is an evga gtx titan 900 install disk

kalina

17:58

pls, I was commenting on how long @RoryAlsop has been trying to get this PC of his working

Rory Alsop

But the website has more recent version

kalina

that tends to happen

Rоry McCune

@kalina as a man once said "Pull the other one, It has got bells on"

Simon

wot

kalina

what with optical media not auto updating its contents

Rory Alsop

17:59

@kalina, sound gets installed with motherboard. I'm not adding a soundcard until things actually work

Rоry McCune

pull the other one, it's got bells on

== English == === Etymology === As an extension of the phrase "someone pulling my leg"—teasing or goading by jokingly lying. The implication is that one leg has been pulled, and the joker will have more fun with the other one due to the bells. === Alternative forms === pull the other one pull the other one, it's got brass bells on === Phrase === pull the other one, it's got bells on (idiomatic, humorous) Expresses disbelief. Is he going to study integrals? Pull the other one—he can't even do basic multiplication. ==== Synonyms ==== pull the other leg ==== See also ==== pull my fi...

Rory Alsop

@DavidFreitag - you'd recommend nvidia before the branded install?

kalina

@RoryAlsop oh I just throw everything in the box and then tidy cables and cable tie everything and screw it all together super tight before I turn it on

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Yes

Rory Alsop

Ok

Simon

17:59

@RоryMcCune Oh lawd.

kalina

@RоryMcCune well a man would have to say that since it's stupid

Rоry McCune

@kalina phhbt

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop The good news is that when you uninstall nvidia GPU drivers they actually get removed, so just installing the nvidia drivers should get you up and running.

kalina

ZOMG session strings is installing

Rory Alsop

Trying to get that URL to work on the machine. I can't use it to browse properly yet

kalina

18:01

SESSSSSSSIONNNNNN STRRRRRRRRIIIINNNNGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSS

not a bad use of 10GB of space

not a bad use at all

especially super fast ssd space

Rory Alsop

Oh damn. You need to install Java first! Wtf

Rоry McCune

@kalina I take it you're not out "Duff duff duffing" tonight?

kalina

lol Java

@RоryMcCune not until later

Simon

@kalina Shit, I've been trying to find decent strings samples but this might be even better.

kalina

I suppose technically that would be "no, not 'tonight'"

Rory Alsop

18:02

Java in order for nvidia to figure out what you have - even though I know it's a 980ti

Rоry McCune

@kalina ah a very late one

kalina

or early, depending on your perception

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Yeah their autodetect is a bit old... You can try finding the drivers from this list here: nvidia.com/download/index.aspx

kalina

@Simon pls, Komplete is worth buying for Massive, the various pianos, Polyplex and Absynth, the rest is bonus that isn't fluff

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop how else are you gonna escalate from presentation to hardware layer?

kalina

18:03

well some of it is fluff

but the bulk of it is very usable content

Simon

@kalina I'll torrent them and give them a try.

kalina

You'll do WHAT?

"You're the reason that software like this is so expensive" </hypocriticalrant>

Simon

lulz

Yeah not dumping 500 bucks US on something that I'm not sure I'll end up using.

Rory Alsop

While it's taking the fifteen minutes to download the driver I'm going to plug an Ibanez into a Marshall and a 4x12 and make LOUDNESS!!!

Bound to be helpful

kalina

you could make music with just the contents of Komplete, effortlessly

Simon

18:04

My rule is: if I ever release anything, if I'm using XYZ plugins in the track then I will buy XYZ plugins.

kalina

that's an acceptable rule

Simon

Yeah I think that's fair.

kalina

@RoryAlsop is this your equivalent to me mocking up a quick super filthy electro bass loop?

Rory Alsop

Quite possibly

kalina

RAAAAAAR I NEED NOISE

GIEF

it's when you take your perfectly mixed down and ready to go track, drop an Ohmicide on the master bus and just distort everything until you no longer feel angry

Rory Alsop

18:08

Yup - crank up some dirty distortion, amp up to at least 6, and start hammering

kalina

DU HAST MICCCCCCHHHHHHHHH RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR

♫ when you steal my sunshine

Simon

♫ and eat my donut

♫

aw, unicodes don't get italics bolded :(

Tom Leek

@TildalWave WHAT IS WRONG WITH LEEK ?

David Freitag

18:24

FIGHT

kalina

+popcorn

David Freitag

TildalWave

oh no you don't it's time for chestnuts popcorn seems so ... meh

@TomLeek was a rhetorical question, you know, like those that don't require an answer :P

Rory Alsop

@kalina I love Rammstein

Rоry McCune

reddit.com/r/golang/comments/3n7axa/…

^reason for using scrypt over bcrypt is apparently that it's really bad to have a max password length of 77 characters

...

David Freitag

18:39

@RoryAlsop Any luck with the new drivers?

Rоry McCune

@DavidFreitag remember to factor in his download speed here

he may not have 'em yet...

David Freitag

@RоryMcCune You people need google in your life

Rоry McCune

@DavidFreitag I think it's fair to say I would pay a lot of money for Google Fibre

hell I already pay a lot of money for 8-10Mbps

David Freitag

If someone will buy my Oneplus One I can get the new Nexus 5 when it comes out and switch to Google Fi

Nick Alexeev

1

Q: Crypto key handling in a uC

What are the general guidelines for handling a cryptographic keys? I know that saving them in plaintext is generally frowned upon, does this hold for true uCs where no user code is run?

uC stands for microcontroller.

David Freitag

18:47

@NickAlexeev Yes, yes it does :]

Rory Alsop

19:43

@DavidFreitag am taking out my frustrations through the medium of food. Taken the family out to pizza express. Will try again later

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop Well that's both good and bad... Let me know if you want my number and/or email for extended support :]

user122738

19:57

Hello. What is this room about? InfoSec?

Rоry McCune

@Begueradj not usually, but occasionally

user122738

Ok, thank you @RоryMcCune

Rory Alsop

21:05

@DavidFreitag that has sorted the display. Many thanks for that. Why it didn't with with the disk that it came with is annoying me...

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop \o/

@RoryAlsop Yeah that's very, very odd.

Ok, so what's next on the list of stuff that isn't quite working?

Rory Alsop

Keyboard and mouse, so I'm going to download the Razor driver set and play with that

It's another few hundred Meg though, so time for beer and gin

David Freitag

I've never used those particular keyboard/mice, but my Naga "just worked" when I plugged it in.

Rory Alsop

Well, they do work, kind of, buy the system doesn't recognise them as keyboard and mouse

And two devices still appear as unrecognised in device manager so I need to identify them somehow

David Freitag

I suppose my lack of experience with Windows 10 isn't helping anything

@RoryAlsop And you're absolutely sure you installed everything important from the motherboard disk?

Rory Alsop

21:11

Everything. Not just everything important

David Freitag

So why exactly did you switch from 7?

Rory Alsop

7 wasnt working properly. It has different things it was failing on. What's more annoying is that I have built upwards of 500 PC's over the years. All straightforward.

If it had worked if have happily stayed on 7

David Freitag

But what was it failing?

Rory Alsop

Memory, some USB stuff, and a couple of other bits and pieces

David Freitag

The memory failed?

Thomas Pornin

21:15

@RoryAlsop A few hundred meg for a keyboard/mouse driver ? This is outrageous.

David Freitag

What, did you buy Home Premium or something?

Rory Alsop

@ThomasPornin well, the colour of every key is individually addressable

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin If it's the software from Razr that I think it is, it's more than just keyboard/mouse drivers.

Rory Alsop

And the mouse has about a million DPI resolution

It was home something. Dunno. I've thrown it away

It was crap

David Freitag

Well there's your problem!

Home Premium is limited to like 8GB of ram

Gotta go for pro or ultimate man

Rory Alsop

21:17

Interesting. Both keyboard and mouse appear as mice in device manager

Damn - the monitors are working at 4k but it still only sees them as generic PNP. Not happy about that

David Freitag

Yeah that's because the keyboard has mouse macro capabilities

Rory Alsop

Oh, and they appear as keyboards as well

David Freitag

And that's because the mouse has keyboard buttons on it, lol

Rory Alsop

It's of having so many devices for keyboard and mouse

David Freitag

@RoryAlsop What display cables are you using?

Rory Alsop

21:19

Fair enough - that's a new one on me

David Freitag

DisplayPort, HDMI, DVI?

Rory Alsop

Plus I have 14 human interface devices

These are display port

David Freitag

Direct DP to DP no adapters?

Rory Alsop

Yep

So I'll hunt for Asus drivers too

I'm sure at some point this will all be wonderful, but so far I'm getting a lot of material for my blog post

David Freitag

Why does it bother you that it only recognizes the monitors as Generic PnP?

See @kalina I do provide support.

Nothing makes me giddy quite like many tens of thousands of dollars worth of extremely precise calibration equipment

Rory Alsop

21:32

If it only recognises them as generic then I have no configuration options for them, such as color balance etc

And while they are pretty close, they aren't a matched pair

Thomas Pornin

23:45

The App store shows me the new version of OS X as a "free upgrade". When I click on that button it complains that I cannot get the free upgrade because it does not have my credit card number.

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin LOL, at least when Microsoft says free they really mean it

Thomas Pornin

Dammit Apple, where is your legendary subtlety ?

I am supposed not to notice I am swindled !

Ok, turns out that "none" is an unexpired payment method.

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