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00:00
@JeffFerland Archived catalog.
I've found that handy a couple times already.
And I can forget about that.... Which is a different "Oops!" :)
@Adrian Anyway, reboot request was the answer there. I wish EC2 came with a console.
@JeffFerland Ah. I'm still figuring out the joys of AWS.
00:14
i've never worked with PXE. I don't have a USB drive at the moment — mFontoura 1 hour ago
Have you ever worked with Google?
@JeffFerland Funny, I started using EC2 because it was built on Xen, and I moved off EC2 because it was built on Xen.
@MichaelHampton I'm happy to report that I proke the 2/2 tie to shoot it where it stood or punt it to SU. I shot it.
00:45
Great, now shoot this one.
What's wrong wit it exactly?
@Adrian Somewhat clearly a home user.
Other than perhaps too localized, but Im loath to use that one
I dunno, I've seen some stupid wireless network designs.
What business network has a couple of PogoPlugs, a Mac and a Raspberry Pi?
Am reading an iPhone. Didn't see that.
Stupid iPrecious.
What is a pgoplug anyway?
Thought that was just a host name.
01:04
KittyKittyKittyKittyKitty!
Can never tell the differences between that one and Devil's Panties.
01:29
@voretaq7 bite
@WesleyDavid not friends? :'(
I should post a sysadmin's perspective on this....
11
Q: Purpose of cc to self

AlphaI noticed that some people inculde themselves in "cc" when they send out an email. What is the reason for this? A quick search on google showed that several people want to learn how to be able to do this automatically.

@voretaq7 So in your realm friends do not regularly draw blood through oral violence? Strange land you occupy...
well, my most recent ex left a scar on my arm... but that was with his hands, not his teeth
And there's the lizard but he never bites me...
I rescued a bebeh lizard from palm destruction last weekend. Cutting old palm suckers caused about 9,000 cockroaches to scurry out and perhaps a dozen lizards. One was tiny and I was able to capture it and put it on the citrus tree.
Also a mouse that I beat with my rawhide glove, but that's another story.
01:48
@WesleyDavid Y U NO ADOPT LIZARD?
Server Fault is currently offline for maintenance
WHICH ONE OF YOU BROKE SERVER FAULT?
@MichaelHampton I was bored
Na, it wasn't you, it was the DEVELOPERS
I see the build number increased at the bottom of the page.
@MichaelHampton thats a bug counter
That explains a lot.
02:08
Throw yer hay-ands in the ay-yer cuz I runnin' startx as root like I just don't kay-yer!
Reason #1 to hate Red Hat: They disabled the -o parameter to fortune.
0
Q: Interactive shell script/function help needed

DougThe following command on OSX will change an Open Directory (Apple's LDAP) password. The $ is the prompt: $ dscl -u diradmin -P 'password' /LDAPv3/127.0.0.1 passwd /Users/username newpassword I would love to turn this into an interactive shell function of some sort (let's call it 'odpasswd') th...

02:25
Burbs - gotta zot Chrome lest it burninate my 'puter
Weee! Meanwhile in Safari...
02:38
anyone in here speak BSD?
or can help me with pfsense?
I gave up drugs.
@Andrew Well, @voretaq7 and @ChrisS are the resident horny balls in here. They know stuffs.
02:55
@WesleyDavid ::leg hump::
@MichaelHampton what'd u break. what'ddwhat'd you break?
I'm wondering if what I want to do is sane/possible or if I should ask a question
I have pfsense acting as a router between LAN1 and WAN, LAN1 has a second router to LAN2 and I want pfsense to route accordingly
Sounds simple.
@Andrew Who what?
so some real IPs: I have pfsense as the local router 10.10.0.2 for a 10.10.0.0/16, with another router as 10.10.0.1 which routes to 192.168.0.0/16, and I want pfsense to forward the traffic
Just set a static route.
03:02
yeah, thought I'd done that
Or do you mean that you want pfSense to connect directly to the 192.168/16 network?
@ChrisS ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
So add a static route for 192.168.0.0/16 via gateway 10.10.0.1?
So I want machines on 10.10/16 to have 10.10.0.2 as their gateway so they can access WAN via it, but also access 192.168/16. pfsense can see it via 10.10.0.1 with the static route
If someone from the 10.10/16 network tries to send to the pfSense box (with a destination in the 192.168/16 network) it will send them a ICMP 5.0 message with the corrected route.
03:04
it is an old version (1.2.3) of pfsense though. can I check that via a shell?
or monitor port/wireshark....
Yeah, that's based on FreeBSD 7.2; not all that old.
tcpdump -i lan0 icmp on the pfSense box will show you the ICMP packets (assuming you have CLI access)
yep
Also, -w file prepended to the arguments of any tcpdump command will create a pcap file that Wireshark can open (good for more visual digestion of packets)
@WesleyDavid Behave or we'll stop cleaning the litter box.
My sister posted this on FB today.
03:09
@ChrisS HOW I CAN LAMP MY SERVER??
@voretaq7 @ChrisS Okay, okay... here's some cake: ( ^^) _旦
HOW IS DABATASE FORMED??
@voretaq7 HOW TO STOP BIOS UPGRADE?! Nvm - found power cord.
@WesleyDavid which jumper is "boot lower half" again? oh... right.... ::KICKS::
@ChrisS . . . WHOMP FreeBSD Isn't Linux! You Hate Freedom! You make RMS's toejam sad!
@MichaelHampton . . . STACKOVERFLOW DOESN'T MIGRATE CRAP! (at least not compared to what they keep, apparently :-P)
I'm surprised it's only 47.
@MichaelHampton I'll see your dabatase and raise you a babby
@WesleyDavid cpm4lyf
plan94bunnies
it came from.... somewhere.
03:17
"There are two major products of Berkeley, CA -- LSD and UNIX. We don't
believe this to be strictly by coincidence."
Microdot or go home.
03:28
0
Q: An error occured synchronizing windows with time.windows.com

KillrawrOkay so I've tried stopping/registering the win32tm service on this Windows Server 2008 Enterprise Computer. C:\Users\Administrator>net stop w32time The Windows Time service is stopping. The Windows Time service was stopped successfully. C:\Users\Administrator>w32tm /unregister The follow...

Prediction: This guy will be the next one to flounce out
flounce?
he looks like a stackoverflow user
@Andrew SERVER FAULT IS MEAN! YOU PEOPLE ARE UNHELPFUL! EVERYONE HATES ME! I'M LEAVING AND NEVER COMING BACK!
^ Flounce.
@Andrew was your first clue the 100ish rep, or the post the size of Shelter Rock?
the profile icon, the windows screenshots, the red circles on screenshots
@Andrew red circles mean META Stack Overflow
especially "here's a screenshot of windows firewall"
03:31
:ph33r:
hmm
@Andrew ::PH333333333R::
ok bedtime
iFlea -- Scratch Different @WesleyDavid
 
3 hours later…
06:35
G'daY
eh. With the timeserver question? Normal behaviour if the time is too far out of whack. Simple way is to just reset the damned time to almost correct
07:11
yeah, it is.
 
1 hour later…
08:28
Yay! it's pathology-results-day Yay! :(
@Chopper3 everything crossed for you
@Iain Fanks
@ewwhite Go to bed Ed
still working on DNS HA clusters... :)
but yes, to bed
morning all. Fingers crossed @chopper3
08:35
cheers
08:59
at least I've got a GTX 660ti coming this afternoon to cheer me up :)
09:19
sounds good to me.
My new macbook is in Korea today apparently
@Iain: Marginally pro webmasters I'd guess.
10:17
@Chopper3 best of luck mate
10:54
posted on October 11, 2012 by Wesley David

Today I’m at the Phoenix VMUG and will be live blogging my experience (provided I can find decent public WiFi). For a full listing of the sessions, check out this agenda page. I’m here with a handful of colleagues, so there’s no telling exactly what will happen, however the sessions that I think I’ll take are: Session #1: EMC – Virtualization of Mission Critica

 
1 hour later…
11:59
@pauska It was bad news I'm afraid it's spread to my lymph nodes, having to go back in for surgery tomorrow to have them removed too
12:22
@Chopper3 ah shit man :( fingers crossed for the surgery then!
fanks
@Chopper3 Bummer to hear man. Stay positive though.
12:50
Anyone ever see an error "The system cannot find the path specified" when trying to delete a file? The path is %appdata%\temp\OICE_A4533...FF68.0\40E99FB7.
@Iain That question would probably be closed as a duplicate on webmasters.SE. Feel free to smack it down.
Nevermind, null character in file name, have to match it with "*".
@Chopper3 :(
13:20
crap :-(
13:32
morning
Anyone in here know much/anything about Perl?
Mornin'.
@ChrisS I've seen that where the path generated by moving the folder to the recycle bin would generate a path that's too long for the system.
@HopelessN00b I'll never admit it.
@MikeyB Interesting, but not the case here.... Gotta love Windows quirks. >=[
It's 13:34 UTC, and I just ran out of close votes for the day.
So, I'm completely revamping the printer deployment here to use GPP. I'm considering just making a single GPO, putting all printers in it, making 1 security group per printer and using item-level targetting to determine who gets what printer based on those security groups.
Anyone see any real pitfalls to that?
13:35
The inevitable barrage of "I can't print" calls?
Why would that happen?
People doing unexpected things, like printing to a printer halfway across the office that they normally never would?
Oh, this isn't a random thing
We're replacing all printers with Ricohs
users are getting training, etc
Well, then without admitting or denying anything, is:

1) code written in a Perl IDE on Windows, with Perl 5.14 going to explode when put onto a Linux box with Perl 5.10?

2) would upgrading Perl on a Linux box generally break much, or are these relatively safe updates/upgrades?
and it'll be a department by department migration
13:37
Oh, well in that case, probably nothing except for the usual minor grumbling whenever something changes.
I'm just wondering if there are any pitfalls to that specific approach using GPO.
I give 0 fucks about politics in this case
strictly technical
@MDMarra That's what I like to do. Other than usual bitching because... bitching, I've only seen the usual problems with GPPs and Windows XP.
We've tested it pretty thoroughly here on XP and haven't seen any issues.
Anything specific that causes issues on XP with the latest client side extensions installed?
@MDMarra Luckier than I then. Like I said, that's the only issue I've seen.
What issues though
Just not working?
13:40
@MDMarra s/ about politics in this case// ;)
@MDMarra Nothing I've been able to nail down, though, I highly suspect it has to do with the domain's level of fuctup. Only seem to see the problem in old domains where some of the decisions leave me scratching my head and wondering who would do such a thing.
Got ya
@MDMarra Yeah, randomly not working, and/or disappearing from the client, with no explanation or reason for even a possible cause to be found anywhere.
@MichaelHampton Oh since you're here, and Linuxy, do you know the answer to my Perl-related queries above?
@HopelessN00b The second number in the Perl version is effectively a major version; they introduce backward incompatible changes. Don't bet on it working. As for replacing the system perl, you could, but that also is just asking for trouble.
Damn. Well, thanks for the answer. So, basically, I get to go hunting for old Windows Perl installers to help in my descent to DevOPSing.

Not been my week.
13:48
In short, perl on RHEL is something that you probably aren't going to get top-notch support (from Red Hat) for, even though you're paying for it.
I have tested perlbrew on EL6 and it seems to work fine for deploying a newer version of perl for a specific application.
It's just one of those hacks that's difficult to fully automate. I can't easily bring it into puppet, for instance.
Oh, it's worse than that, actually.

This is for an Avamar backup system, so support is through EMC, not RedHat.
But actually trying to deploy a perl app on Windows is probably going to be a lot more painful.
And while we're on the topic, why in hell is it being written in perl?
@MDMarra we have some issues with mad printer requirements as a college that don't normally impact business, but our experience is that GPP printing was unreliable for us and there was an issue with being able to reliably set a specific printer as the default printer - an issue if you want people to print to a local B&W printer and have also have access to a large scale colour printer or a photocopier that can be used as a printer for bulk print runs.
@MichaelHampton No, no. from Windows. As in, being punched up on a Perl IDE in my Windows desktop for use/deployment onto this Linux server.
reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/11b1qk/… if you want to chime in (that's my question)
13:53
@HopelessN00b Do you own a gun?
@MichaelHampton Because my boss about creamed his pants when he overheard that I can code in Perl. He had a tech who was pretty guru like in Perl a while back, and now the solution to every problem on a Linux box is somethingsomethingPerl.
@MichaelHampton Several, but this boss is actually pretty decent (this one annoyance aside), and I'm NOT shooting the Avamar, because we'd have to go back to HP DataPortector if I did.
ah the old "when all you've got is a hammer" thing
@DJPon3 Yeah, I've had default printer issues before as well with GPP
Luckily, the users will pick their own defaults
That's cool then. How many users? Another issue we found is that GPP became un-manageable and unreliable past a certain number of users.
Which is my way of saying "it worked in testing then kicked us in the ass when it died in deployment"
@DJPon3 Kinda. The old tech was actually neighbors with a published author who wrote a book or two on Perl, and is active in the big mailing lists and so on, so I think it's more a case of the Perl code this guy is used to is just such high quality, he thinks it's a function of Perl, rather than a function of having had a Perl guru working for him.
13:57
ah. I can see that one ending badly for everyone concerned then, @HopelessN00b
(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:(?:(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]
)+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|"(?:[^\"\r\\]|\\.|(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t]))*"(?:(?:
\r\n)?[ \t])*)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+(?:(?:(
?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|"(?:[^\"\r\\]|\\.|(?:(?:\r\n)?[
\t]))*"(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*))*@(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\0
31]+(?:(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])+|\Z|(?=[\["()<>@,;:\\".\[\]]))|\[([^\[\]\r\\]|\\.)*](?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*)(?:\.(?:(?:\r\n)?[ \t])*(?:[^()<>@,;:\\".\[\] \000-\031]+
2
If that's the answer, you've asked the wrong question.
@DJPon3 Yeah, no doubt. But, given the level of fuctup around here, this particular bad ending might not even register above the background noise... so I'm not too bent out of shape yet.
@MichaelHampton space invaders ?
that's ok then
@MichaelHampton That's awful ASCII art. It barely looks like a penis at all.
4
13:59
@Iain Well, if I hadn't screwed up the line endings somewhere, it's a regex to parse email addresses.
@MichaelHampton Parse for what? And does it work, or just cause migraines?
@HopelessN00b It parses them for perl, of course!
@MichaelHampton It's the one at the back of the o'reilly regexp book isn't it?
Probably. It's pretty famous.
@MichaelHampton Can't be famous; Google hasn't heard of it.
Google

413. That’s an error.

Your client issued a request that was too large. That’s all we know.
14:04
I wonder if it's still valid with the TLD clusterfuck sell-off.
@DJPon3 @MDMarra we also had issues with default printer (setting default to enabled in a GPP resulted in the printer not being mapped). The solution was to run an extra gpupdate against the user target in a HKCU run. Haven't had a complaint in a week..
@SmallClanger Use three dashes in each side in chat instead. strikethrough
@HopelessN00b I know. I was just being facetious an idiot. :P
@Pauska @MDMarra we actually purchased a bit of software that takes care of it for us and makes it easy and nice for users to map printers too.
1. Printer Management MMC
2. Deploy Printers
3. ...
4. Profit!
14:09
@DJPon3 That's just so twisted and perverse, all the technology and code that goes into supporting making marks on tree corpses, like it's still a thousand years ago and paper is novel or useful or whatever. :/
Anyone use Google Checkout? Have anything good/bad to say about it?
@MDMarra Oh, and the wireless issue yesterday. Turns out that Windows XP can't use 802.1X if you RDP in. Great waste of 8 hours troubleshooting.
@ChrisS Used it once, it worked. So... good, I guess?
@ChrisS have you seen my GPP? The one with ~60 different IP mappings? :P
@pauska Wait, wat? Are you sure?
14:12
@pauska No. Seems like a lot.
Q. Do Remote Desktop connections work to Windows wireless clients that use 802.1X authentication?
A. Not at this time. All 802.1X-based wireless connections are affected, including those using EAP-TLS or PEAP-MS-CHAP v2. Connections using a static WEP key or WPA-PSK are not affected. Microsoft has addressed this issue in Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008.
Weee! Waiting for the Phoenix VMUG to start. Got here early so now I'm board watching vendors set up in the cafeteria.
@pauska Who still uses XP?
@ChrisS We don't know where users are as they roam between lots of different sites, so the only way is to map them by IP subnet
@ChrisS A lot of places?
14:14
@ChrisS Many, many places?
That's a joke... Like the "management" at places still running XP. =]
@ChrisS I've got a story about that courtesy of my stepdad. Large company, a major executive puts a ticket in, "I can't install the new app - must be a security issue with the new Windows 7 rollout" -- he was still using XP.
Multi-dimensional failure there.
@pauska Oh, thanks. RDP doesn't work over the wireless connection. Works fine if you need to RDP in over a wire and setup or use 802.1X wireless for another purpose though, FYI. (OR works here, at least)
@HopelessN00b Well.. we can RDP in, but the wireless disconnects when it tries to refresh 802.1x
the funny thing is that remote assitance works fine
and that is just rdp wrapped in a pretty package
@ChrisS Not always the management's fault. Like here, the users are so... ducking fumb they couldn't make a migration to Windows 7 work, which is why it's still all XP, expect for IT and a handful of other users with vestigial traces of intelligence.
@pauska That is weird. Ouch.
@pauska Oh, of course. Naturally, machine authentication should be done with the credentials of the logged on user.
Man, it's easy to forget what a nightmare XP is when you use another OS all day.
yeah, I'm just debating with my self if I want that enabled
2 - Computer authentication only. When a user logs on, it has no effect on the connection. Only computer authentication is performed. The exception to this behavior is when a user successfully logs on, and then roams between wireless APs. In that case, user authentication is performed. For changes to this setting to take effect, restart the Wireless Zero Configuration service for Windows XP or Windows Server 2003.
that roaming bit was a bit frightening
@pauska wait
wait wait wait
what the fuck were you doing?
...?
Haha the whole problem with 802.1x and rdp
14:27
still don't get your point
and i'm kind of pissed right now after spending two days on this, so fuck you
:|
OK, so users with more than emails 10,000 individually saved as .msg files... the best, easiest approach to that is a scoped firearm and a lot of lye, right?
Trade ya... you can deal with 20 GB (>162,000) individually saved emails, and I can do your 802.1X auth for you.

Deal? :)
@pauska bahaha. I meant I literally don't understand the use case
@MDMarra first of all, I was using RDP initially to troubleshoot a PC (that's in another site)
where they complained about wireless suddenly being unavailable
and guess what happens when I rdp in? wireless dies after 1 minute
ahhh
are you going to tell me that you would know that this was a bug with XP and rdp??
14:31
@pauska Well, this is why you should blame the user instead of troubleshooting. Troubleshooting only leads to finding trouble.
oh, fuck no
I just didnt understand why you would need it to work
but since you were troubleshooting a different issue, it makes sense
@HopelessN00b I've got a handful of those users too... I just told them to buckle-up and hold on for dear life. They've handled it better than expected.
The secret is to make the existing install suck horribly. Then they joyfully move up to new.
Morning' gents
@Adrian didn't you just manage the opposite of that ?
G'day btw
heeeyyyy waves
14:52
0
Q: De-duplicating backup tool on a block basis?

SSTI am looking for an (ideally free as in speech or beer) backup tool for Unix-like OS which can store deduplicated backups, i.e. only nonredundant content takes up additional space. I already looked at dirvish (my first candidate) and rsnapshot which use hardlinks to achieve deduplication on a pe...

And I'd love your opinions on this:
12
Q: Purpose of cc to self

AlphaI noticed that some people inculde themselves in "cc" when they send out an email. What is the reason for this? A quick search on google showed that several people want to learn how to be able to do this automatically.

@ewwhite I think you should bcc: yourself if you must.
I don't understand why people do it at all.
some people don't know that the "sent items" even exist
outlook 2010 traces discussions from all folders, but perhaps earlier versions only looked at inbox? not sure
@ewwhite I do it sometimes on things I know/strongly suspect I'll need to CMA on. Kinda of a simple way to make sure the email actually gets sent out as expected.
@ewwhite what do you want us to do with that - downvote it because it's effectively a link only answer ? Close it because it's shopping ?
15:01
@Iain Shopping.
Unless there's a real product for that...
@ewwhite My answer contains a real product for what he wants.
@HopelessN00b I got duped into using eXdupe once...
3
A: Replicate a big, dense Windows volume over a WAN -- too big for DFS-R

Lasse1.5 TB would take 30 minutes with http://www.exdupe.com/ :p ... given that your disks are fast enough (exdupe is so fast that it's IO bound, not CPU bound). And I havn't reached any limits on file count yet. Had millions too. Edit: Ah, you need a partition/sector based backup and not file syst...

@ewwhite Wait, should we be closing shopping questions as NC or OT?
@HopelessN00b this already had a NC...
@ewwhite It actually looks pretty nifty. What's the catch/problem with it?
15:06
@ewwhite closed
@HopelessN00b When I tried it, there was some problem with, oh, unpacking the archives
this is interesting. OP asks a question and self answers but doesn't ask a good question and the answer isn't great either serverfault.com/questions/437342/…
@ewwhite Good to know, thanks.
@HopelessN00b but it seems to be a little more mature now.
I guess I got off the deduplication bandwagon, given the number of problems it causes with ZFS...
and at a certain point, compression is less painful
@ewwhite Oh, damn, that's something I'll have to look out for.
15:09
@HopelessN00b Oh?
@Iain 4 downvotes on the question is pretty harsh IMHO
Seems trollish
I dunno about interesting... unusual, though.

There was that guy who asked and self answered a question about how to stop the `manage this server` window from popping up at login (tick the box that says `do not show this screen at login`.
@ewwhite Yeah, if the project plan is to believed, we'll be deploying some Solaris boxes for their ZFS capabilities.
@HopelessN00b Nexenta, man.
Dedupe has been overrated and overhyped since it hit the "scene" a couple years ago... For most people it has few benefits, high costs, and introduces methods of failure that tend to actually fail too often.
15:14
@ewwhite Ugh, sadly [much of] what we buy and deploy was decided before they had me as a resource, so we've got some shit I just have to deal with and deploy/configure as best as possible. Like the Websense stuff. No sense in expending effort on something that was decided and can't be changed.
@ChrisS Bah, the rest of the world just needs to get with the program and start doing daily backups of 500 GB filservers over a T1 already, like we do. :)
@ChrisS IDK dedupe isn't a bad thing...
@voretaq7 I find that compression is much more useful on my datasets.
dedupe is GREAT for backups/archiving
but I don't see much point in using it on production data
for Nexenta, compression should be on all the time.
no cost.
and yeah, compression (with the right algorithm) is a breeze for modern storage systems
15:17
@voretaq7 The concept isn't bad, no... But the benefits don't really materialize like people think they will; and the potential for problems, while low, is enough that I don't think it's wroth it (in general; fringe cases always apply)
@Iain that's a badly asked question but I can probably salvage it...
@pauska I've seen numbers as high as 10:1 for live VMs being deduped
Seems pretty substantial
@ChrisS it depends on how much data you have and how well it takes to deduplication I guess - you have to get at least 3:1 returns for it to make sense IMHO
yeah, but is it worth it?
getting a SAN that supports block based dedup is expensive as hell, or you gotta ghetto something up by using NFS or software iSCSI
@pauska 10:1 storage savings could definitely be worth it if we're talking fast expensive FC disks
15:18
@voretaq7 I've never seen anything near that high...
@pauska I believe EMC does block dedupe on the VNX 5xxx series, no?
(I'm still working my way through the manual)
@MDMarra nope. Only compression on block.
our database would dedupe probably close to that
Our database is also tiny, so the huge expense of the SAN would totally eclipse any storage benefits...
Ah good to know
@voretaq7 exactly.
15:19
@voretaq7 usually databases don't dedupe well from what I've been told, though.
Because of the way most DBs actually store the data
@pauska I think you're wrong there. Our VNX5200's have a dedupe feature.
It's not working right ATM, but it's there.
@HopelessN00b not on block.
it's ONLY on the unfied part (NFS/CIFS)
I have two VNX5500s coming in soon. I really need to get through this documentation
@pauska Seriously? I'm gonna have to go kill a sales guy. BB-in-25-to-life.
@pauska any problem using your VNX as NAS? I know some people have said EMC NAS functionality sucks
We're putting our Oracle installs on it and I'm debating whether or not to go block or NFS for them
15:21
@voretaq7 I'll bet it doesn't... I doubt your database's fields/records/anything are 4k aligned where dedupe would pickup duplicate blocks.
@MDMarra yeah, talk to pfo about that, he will cry for hours
Block it is
the thing is.. we were going to use the NAS as our primary file server
but that means no support for DFS-R
Ugh, and check out this ass... downvoting someone for answering their own question. I have a strong temptation to go through and downvote all his questions for the equally specious reason of not answering any of his own questions.
@Jeznet I downvoted because not only is this an incredibly simple task that could be solved by typing your title into google, you also answered your own question as soon as you asked it. Seemed a waste of time. — boburob 9 mins ago
@MDMarra I don't see any point of putting databases on NFS.. It just adds an extra layer you don't really need (dedup)
15:25
Database on NFS? That should give you nightmares.
@MDMarra on thing to keep in the back of your head at all times is that the NAS can't provide non-disruptive failover
NFS isn't inherently bad. It's the fact that people completely do stupid shit with it.
Oracle likes NFS.
Actually, NFS on Linux can be bad, but that's neither here nor there.
@MichaelHampton Why? It's not an inherently stupid idea, depending.
15:29
@MDMarra ours happens to include 5 files in a table that repeat headers and other information pretty regularly - totally predictable :P
@HopelessN00b Try this in your lab sometime. Set up an NFS client, an NFS server, start some data transfer between them, and then unplug the cable for a second. Plug it back in. Watch the fun!
@ChrisS 32k aligned actually :)
(assuming the DB isn't making too big a mess out of the ordering, which I know Postgres isn't)
@MichaelHampton Well, if your database is dropping offline, you probably have bigger problems than that, I'd think.
@voretaq7 Right, but the way it's stored in pages with different indexes, etc causes the blocks to differ, even if the data in the rows is identical, making it not a good candidate for dedup
At least that's how it was explained to me
@HopelessN00b NFS is (or was, the last time I used it) highly intolerant to even the briefest of network hiccups. I got to the point where I would use Anything But NFS...
15:31
@MDMarra normally true but Pg bytea data is pretty much dumped into a (bunch of) big bucket(s) and accessed by reference. We're definitely a special case in this regard though - you couldn't dedupe all your Jane Smiths in a normal table.
Yeah, plus postgres is like voodoo black magic witchcraft to me
so I couldn't speak to that anyway
(it just happens that this table is about 30% of our DB size. about 50% is in another table which we can't dedupe (and don't use anymore, but it just sits there, growing...))
@MichaelHampton Hmm. What version/how long ago?
@HopelessN00b NFSv3, and many years. The passage of time has fortunately healed my wounds somewhat.
@HopelessN00b Listen to the pointy blue critter - NFS sucks. There's a reason it's called Network Failure System when nobody from Sun is within earshot...
15:34
@MichaelHampton Sounds accurate for NFS over UDP; over TCP it's been good for me... I'm on FreeBSD however, not Linyucks
Ya but Oracle invented NFS, so it actually works decently well with their products.

And by "Oracle invented NFS" I mean "Oracle bought Sun who invented NFS but revisionist history is cool"
A mounts critical partition from B. B mounts critical partition from C. C mounts critical partition from A.
HOORAY CHRISTMAS LIGHT SYNDROME!
@MDMarra Oracle and NFS deserve each other.
<-- using NFS for all sorts of stuff.
@voretaq7 like I said, it's dumb admins that give NFS a bad name
Similar to the bad name Windows admins get from their dumb counterparts
@MDMarra things like that "Just Happen" in any NFS environment of sufficient complexity and age.
15:35
HPC, trading systems, VMWare, direct storage to Isilon.
@MichaelHampton Must have been improved in v4, then. That's what I've been using, and it's been pretty good to me as well, when I need to use it.
@HopelessN00b v4 has a bit more robustness (and most companies shipping v4 have NFS-over-TCP support)
@ChrisS are you using NFSv4?
@voretaq7 Not yet, no. I only use NFS for booting, and 8.x doesn't support NFSv4 for that.
Yeah, I've been doing some reading on the older versions of it.

Even in theory, a filesystem over *UDP* sounds like an awful idea one might conceive of while smoking bad crack.
Not sure if 9.x supports it either now that I'm thinking about it.
15:47
Yep, NFS over TCP sounds like a much better idea. That alone would solve half or more of its problems.
@MichaelHampton It's the default in most cases I've seen....
Doesn't do anything about spaghetti mounts, though...
Spaghetti mounts aren't an inherent design flaw in NFS, they're an inherent design flaw in the admin that implemented them.
@ChrisS I don't recall many (any, actually) NFS changes in 9.x
but I hate NFS from my Sun days so I'm generally blind to it...
mad props to @sysadmin1138 for clearing out :)
15:51
@MichaelHampton You mean you think that a filesystem should make an attempt to verify and changes to the files it's hosting? Pfft, you'll never cut it as a Sun employee.
@HopelessN00b NFS over UDP still does synchronous writes; the write verification is just pushed up to the application level instead of the session layer. It makes the protocol notably faster for large transfers (over reliable mediums) as you get one ACK for the trasfer instead of one ACK per packet.
@ChrisS Ah, interesting. Not as horrible as it sounds at first blush.

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