Your manufacturer date is very recent. I wouldn't trust my equipment to a malfunctioning device. I'd simply call APC Support and warranty the misbehaving unit.
@voretaq7 See, that's just it. I am completely hardened to offenses of any kind. I wouldn't have nary a worry about that - but I think it would just get grating if any meme was beaten to death that much, much less one about body parts.
@voretaq7 Maybe I can't see flags after all? I see a blue notification, but when I click it, it says there are none to see.
However, Iain did specifically mention that it was a "sewer where swearing is becoming the norm rather than the exception" So I suppose profanity is part of the issue.
In all seriousness though the antics in here don't bother me - I have no problem toning down some of them (boobs meme being the biggest one), but I certainly don't want to see us lose all of them.
I'll have to defer to others, because I have no qualms about any words, in just about any quantity - and if I do, I haven't reached that limit yet in here.
@voretaq7 Really, the use of it is usually very comedic and endearing. E.g. "Fucking Norwegian" and "FUCK THE FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING FUCK!!" (One of my favorite lines)
and as everyone has said that's part of sysadmin culture. You get a bunch of sysadmins in a room with no clients around, we curse and rant about our crappy clients and the things we'd like to do to them with various power tools.
@84104 we're going to use ASL for a while, just to be cautious :-)
in all seriousness though, @Iain is pretty much ServerFault's conscience sitting on our shoulder and stabbing us in the ear when we're edging up to (or over) the line. I happen to agree that we as a community need to take a hard look at ourselves and try to be just a LITTLE less frightening for new people.
(while at the same time again not going to the ned flanders extreme that will have all of us go chat elsewhere and this room become a vast wasteland)
@voretaq7 I'm still one step behind you wondering "What about us is frightening in the first place?" - Although the total vitriol against admittedly bad questions, or some borderline questions is bad.
I myself have kept from bringing up a topic I'm new to in here.
Maybe not frightening but unwelcoming. "sexism" in the context of our jokes: Definitely unwelcoming. Clobbering new questions that are GENUINELY BAD and show no research? Honeslty? Better here than on the site...
And it's always funny when Person A says "OMGWTFBBQ Why would anyone use this product and if they do they're brain donors!!" and Person B says "I use it." awkward silence
you post a snowman. @markm posts a snowman with teeth. I animate the snowman so it's chomping stuff. @84104 edits the animation so it's eating users. And now everyone's offended.
@WesleyDavid I'm concerned that people are offended and the first we hear of it is a mod-storm in chat rather than letting us work it out on meta -- that's the only problem I have with this whole debacle
We were too snarky on the main site - yes. We discussed it in meta, and we police ourselves. We're too mean/profane/unwelcoming/whatever in chat? We'll deal with it.
@voretaq7 Since it's chat, and chat is something of a distant cousin to the main site, I felt it should have been brought up in a serious way in chat first.
Bringing it up on the main site is bringing in eyeballs that aren't accustomed to this little sub-culture / sub-site. I mean, look at John Gardeniers. Apparently he's thoroughly disgusted with us and I didn't even know it. =|
@MDMarra Heck, if I get to some significant rep on SU just as a result of migrated posts, I doubt I'd ever really play moderator just because I don't understand them.
The offensive and spam flags in chat are shown to every moderator from a parent site (on chat.stackexchange.com that is every SE 2.0 moderator) and 10k chat users as well. This is potentially far more users than a flag on an SE site itself is shown to.
I don't think it is necessary to show the ...
right now a flag pops up and every mod and 10k on the network gets an alert. They come in, see the word "fuck" (as an example), freak out because it's the F-Bomb, and suspend the user.
Yeah, its madness. I've never actioned a flag on a room outside of those I'm a reg in, and never would unless it was clearly directly abusive (and I've not seen that happen)
@syneticondj Where are these dozens of pointers? We've only had a scant few and those scant few are usually by people that are not connected directly with the site.
@MarkM, and perhaps he did want it to be "more on the record" by bringing it up in m.sf. That's also ok, and I'm sure we could come to a solution that made people happy without chasing people away
If you scroll up through today's posts you'll see a whole bunch of blues in and out of here over the course of the last 7-8 hours - some actually trying to understand, some freaking out and proposing nuclear options. We also now have at least one not-really-a-regular-SF user type person coming onto mSF and saying effectively "because *I* don't like what you say you should never ever say it again".
@syneticondj Then why the fuck do you keep coming back? You just want to see if you've been mentioned. You fucking irritating vain fucktard. I don't care anymore what happens to me for "swearing". You drove Chopper3 away. You're a troll. You provoked me earlier, and you've done it again. Get the fuck out of my fucking world. Don't come back. The community is behind me here, not you.
whether people are regulars here in chat.sf or mods from other SE sites who came in to find out what was going on or bystanders that are trying to figure out what was going on, people wanted to talk about it
@syneticondj I'm not saying we don't want to hear everyone out (which, by the by, is WHY this has been discussed so thoroughly all day today), but if these chats are supposed to reflect the community then the community needs to be given the room to make decisions and set its own direction.
@syneticondj But what we've been saying is that, with a few exceptions, this chat does reflect the community at large. Only a few protest, and we are willing to listen to those dissenters and capitulate insofar as it doesn't completely crimp everyone's style too far back.
And to be honest, @iain did bring up some good points that most likely some of us were thinking 'You know, we do need to reign it in a bit, we need to work on that individually'
@Aaron Yeah, about the time @Iain's meta post came in I was wondering if the boob talk and the bizarre images being linked to were getting a bit over the top.
@Aaron based on the meta replies and discussions in here I think most of us have reached that conclusion. And sometimes that's what it takes: A respected member of the community prodding you (like when he prodded us about snarky comments)
The people that have the time to chat are the ones who make the time to chat within their careers because we feel it enriches us professionally, and likely personally too. I just downright like the people here - even though I don't really know any of them terribly personally.
It is not about the number of high rep users in here. It is about the number of active users here compared to the number of total users contributing to the site.
@syneticondj Perhaps we're veering off into the realm of statistical analysis here because I think this chat room is a accurate sampling of the site as a whole. Those who have high rep are serious, professional SysAdmins who are likely entrenched in this culture. Those who have low rep may be as well, or they may just be grazers. Regardless, the ratio of active ServerFault users to active chat users seems completely irrelevant.
@syneticondj Look, bottom line for me? If we're REALLY that far over the line and the SE folks don't think we're handling it I know @RebeccaChernoff or one of the other SE folks won't be at all shy about coming in here and smacking us around. I think they would like to see us police ourselves and retain as much of our site's culture as possible though.
@JourneymanGeek don't listen to @MDMarra/@MarkM, he's drunk and doesn't even know who he is. Lurking has a $3.95/minute charge. We'll add it to your phone bill :-)
@MDMarra: Honestly? I have an interest, bit very little experience or knowledge. I'd contrast my rep here (just a tad under 700), with SU (where i'm something like.. almost 25K rep)
@voretaq7 @MarkM I can't say that I would second Iain's complaint (I am not frequently in here and I do not care much about chat), but apparently this is what all the fuzz is about. Chat only represents the chatty ones.
Nonsense. It's very simple: BSD was developed by a bunch of hippies dropping LSD at UCB. Linux was developed by a drunk Finn, copying some stuffed-shirt telco code from Bell Labs. He was drunk, so he kinda messed up a lot.
(1) Ensure that hardware is properly secured. (2) Strike rack repeatedly until system works. (3) Pick up any bits that fell off. Discard/Hide as needed.
Forgetting about (1) will lead to a much longer step (3)
@MDMarra: I donno, that's partially cause of the culture of the place. and what technical stuff that does happen is more interesting than proper site stuff sometimes
@syneticondj I would be interested in seeing the stats on most active users versus users in chat. I wonder if I can pull that out of the data-explorer soup
Many of us do training at our jobs and we'd rather have a newer admin come in with a sound understanding of fundamentals rather than someone that kinda figured it out on their own but never asked anything
@MDMarra: Is that even possible? I'm decent with computers, but i find sometimes there's stuff thats locked in a metaphorical filing cabinet in a toilet with a broken bulb, with a beware of leopard sign, at the bottom of the stairs.
Your manufacturer date is very recent. I wouldn't trust my equipment to a malfunctioning device. I'd simply call APC Support and warranty the misbehaving unit.
