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11:00 AM
It's not necessarily obvious if this is his first or second foray
 
I'm gonna see if there's an extant making-3.5-monsters thread.
 
@Simon - I don't really speak 4e, is the thing.
I come from years spent in a paradigm that treats each monster entry as utterly unique
And you have to figure out how to use them
 
@Lord_Gareth There's nothing wrong with that. My job re this concept is to find the path from where your mindset is now to where I'm explaining from.
 
(Actually there's TONS wrong with it because having no guide to using the damn monsters leads to some truly SHOCKING cases of them getting used completely stupidly >.< 3.5 gave me bad habits)
 
@Lord_Gareth Well, okay. I shall describe "ongoing damage" and you shall speculate on a 3.5 rendition of this concept.
 
11:06 AM
Heya Lithe!
I was just in your thread ^_^
 
hey :)
 
When a creature has ongoing damage, it would be expressed like "ongoing 5 fire" and mean that the creature takes 5 fire damage at the start of each of its turns. At the end of each of its turns, the creature rolls a d20; on a 10 or higher it loses the "ongoing 5 fire" effect.
 
@Lord_Gareth kickass, I'll check that out early AM
night all lol
 
@LitheOhm Yopp! Your question has finally sparked some discussion.
@LitheOhm ttfn
 
thankfully
 
11:08 AM
Aww but you just arrived
T_T
 
yip. Gimme about six hours lol
 
@BESW - Two ways I could do this. One is the cheap-and-dirty way, which is where I steal the text from Alchemist's fire and they take 1d6 fire damage a round until they succeed at a DC 15 Reflex save to put its ass out.
the OTHER is where I do all of that, but re-write it with subtly different wording that ends up saying the exact same thing
Ongoing effects in 3.5 tend to either end naturally or require a save every round to get rid of them.
Since your effect HAS a D20 roll, we just turn that into the save
And call it good
 
The thing is that the idea of an "ongoing effect" that a raw d20 stops is a standard thing. You can have "ongoing 10 acid" or "blinded (save ends)".
 
Okay, so you're looking to create a tag
Tags in 3.5 are descriptors that help identify an effect and create ease-of-reference when talking about immunities, vulnerabilities, and resistances
For example, Cause Fear is a [Mind-Affecting], [Fear] effect
So anything referencing those two tags potentially affects the spell
 
Yeah, 4e's taken that even further with its keywords.
 
11:12 AM
You want to create [Ongoing] as a tag, which in this case doesn't actually /do/ anything other than label a bunch of common effects w/r/t wording.
 
Okay, that could work.
 
That is, I couldn't just say "This deals 5 damage per round and is an [Ongoing] [Fire] effect"
I'd have to spell out the WHOLE THING
And then tag it at the end
I'm assuming this is for more than just spells, yes?
Because if it was just spells we could turn it into a [Descriptor]
Which modifies the spell in much the way a creature type modifies a creature
 
Yeah. You could, for example, get ongoing 10 untyped damage from a claw attack that leaves you bleeding.
 
@Lord_Gareth The important thing is that it's a shorthand for standard wording.
 
Yep, so it's a tag, which much like an ability word in M:tG is just a quick heads-up that shit is happening
Sort of like how Radiance doesn't DO anything, it's just there to announce a common theme?
 
11:15 AM
Okay, let's try something a bit more general.
Power use frequency is divided into four and only four types.
There are at-will powers, which are exactly what they say on the tin: you can use them any time you have the action available and a valid target.
There are encounter powers, which can be used once per fight.
Daily powers are what 3.5 would call 1/day.
And recharge powers are available at the start of a fight, but once you use them they're only available again when a certain trigger happens, like you lose half your hp.
 
Whew boy.
Okay.
So 3.5 is, ah...sloppier.
It measures frequency in terms of Times/Unit
 
Commonly you'll see something like Recharge 4, which means that at the start of your turn you roll 1d6 and get the power back on a 4 or higher.
 
in flavors of: passive, at-will, /encounter, /day, /week, /month, /year and one monster even has /decade.
Because, you know
 
@Lord_Gareth Yeah. This is a major issue because 4e monsters are built on an entirely different power-availability structure.
 
You're keeping track of that
Oh but it gets better!
IT GETS BETTER!
Because in the middle of all this /round and /day stuff SOME OF IT HAS RECHARGES TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
11:19 AM
I am passingly familiar with 3.5 usage mechanics, though it's been a while.
 
(Excuse me while I escort myself to the loony bin)
 
I really feel like Tome of Battle was an early proof-of-concept test for the 4e power system.
 
Like Binders have abilities that are useable 1/round, but only 1/five rounds. Dragons can breathe 1/round but then wait 1d4+1 rounds. Tome of Battle classes can use each maneuver they ready 1/encounter, but they can also REFRESH!
Honestly, so do I
And it was GLORIOUS
 
@Lord_Gareth From what you've said here and there, I get the impression you and KRyan know each other from elsewhere.
But even if you hadn't said anything, I think I could tell.
 
We do.
WE ARE LOVERS (no we're not)
 
11:22 AM
@Lord_Gareth toooo laaaaate. You shall be 'shipped.
 
Heh. Why do you say that you think you could tell?
 
The fact that you need a tissue every time the Tome of Battle comes up?
 
BESW, I stopped playing melee for FOUR YEARS out of sheer disgust
Tome of Battle made me love melee again
Of COURSE I need a tissue
It was like after ten long years of nothing but horror and pain
ToB, ToM, and Incarnum appeared from the sky
And said, "Hey guys, we're sorry. We finally listened to you. have the awesome now."
Sadly, the very first thread about WEEABOO FIGHTAN MAGIK started ten minutes later.
Did I kill the chat?
 
It's getting better ;)
 
No, but I think you made a successful pin.
 
11:28 AM
Heh.
Grapple rules.
 
or possibly,
[Chat is dazed (save ends)]
 
Can notes be left in-chat?
 
Notes?
 
Well, like, in another chat room I frequent
You can put in a command alongside a username and dump a quick message
And the next time they post, the bot spits the message out
Like $note Kyran Hey what up
 
Ah, not that I know of.
 
11:30 AM
And the next time he says anything
 
You can just say @BESW Hey dude what's up with your face
 
Just @ ing.
 
And if BESW is not here in the chat room, he'll get a site notification
 
the bot would spit it out
Ah, alright
 
e.g. I can say
 
11:30 AM
If you @Lord_Gareth somebody, it'll come up as a notification in the main site.
 
@KRyan - Dunno if you know anyone fluent in both 4e and 3.5e but if you do rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/19824/… <-This thread needs their help!
 
Hey @KRyan we settled that thing about the monk. You can go ahead and critique the answer and mxyzplk agreed you could create a chat room and write about it there if you have anything lengthy to say. Just don't start an argument in the comments: feedback on its own is fine, but feedback that spawns an argument is likely to be deleted when the rest of the argument comments are deleted.
Now whenever KRyan next hops on the site, he'll have a notification waiting for him about that message.
 
Coo'
 
(I needed to do that too :D)
 
If you see him before I do tell 'im I said hi.
 
11:33 AM
@KRyan @Lord_Gareth says hi
 
(We collaborated to drop a comment inviting the author of that post to come to chat to have their illusions thoroughly dispelled)
(Because honestly that post is sooooooo bad >.>)
 
@Lord_Gareth Yeeeeeah. You get more flies with vinegar than honey, but people don't work that way.
 
Hey now
The last person I forcibly threw into the deepest pits of system balance reality came out okay!
Though he was very shocked, I must say
Something about a 3200 damage backhand being the wizard screwing around and not taking you seriously was very disturbing to him >.>
(Admittedly it's a 3200 damage flaming backhand)
 
Yes, well. I can speak from experience and say that while 3.5's balance issues aren't avoidable it's quite easy to play in the system for a good long while without that kind of imbalance rearing its ugly head.
 
Indeed!
it takes quite a bit of deliberate effort to start sweeping armies off the map
Well, not on the part of the mage
But my god the splat diving
ALL THE SPLAT DIVING
 
11:38 AM
@Lord_Gareth That just sounds nasty.
 
Heh.
I wanted a non-lethal way of immobilizing large numbers of troops
Settled on Avascular Mass
So I locked down 2k 5-foot squares with sticky webs made of their own blood (the spell can only ever deal 1/2 their current HP so they can't die from it)
 
I mean, I had a reputation in my groups for being unbeatable at CharOp when I put my mind to it (one reason I usually GM'd instead). I retired three different characters because they made the rest of the party irrelephant.
 
COULD have just summoned a balor, but the idea was to not have dead soldiers at the end
 
And I never got anywhere near the kind of ridiculousness that 3.5 is actually capable of.
 
Indeed. And I try to avoid it myself. I mean, what's the POINT of adventuring as a Projected Image?
But there's a world of difference between not venturing into high op
And being so low op that you're unwittingly giving out terrible advice.
 
11:41 AM
@Lord_Gareth Highlighting that all the other wizards have a death wish?
 
In that the former is just good manners
And the latter is something that should be corrected
 
@Lord_Gareth Demilich gets astral projection (Sp) at will. Drop your skull in a BoH, stick a dagger in the side of the bag, go adventuring.
 
@SimonGill - It is telling of 3.5 that my wizard was Doin' It Wrong by actually being there
@BESW - Demilich gets 9th level spells. Float your skull into your private demiplane, astrally project from inside your god-proof lounge
 
@Lord_Gareth In that campaign I actually had a reason to use a BoH.
 
@SimonGill - Wizards are considered the most powerful class in 3.5 for the simple and pure reason that they have a solution to literally every problem they can be faced with, and this solution is CERTIFIED TO WORK. The only thing they can't do is force another wizard to fight them who doesn't want to. It takes a Greater Power - that is it say, a god amongst gods - to track down a wizard that doesn't want to be found
That means 2/3 GODS can't even smite the freakin' 'zard.
I'ma say that again just because it deserves it
2 out of every 3 gods lacks sufficient versatility to hunt down a wizard and they also lack the power to KILL IT once they've found it
This starts
At level 13
 
11:45 AM
The GM had ruled that a) all extradimensional spaces denoted by indefinite articles (an extradimensional space) are actually linking to individual honeycombs in a single dimension guarded by a demigod who has the blessing of all the major gods; b) it is impossible to use any magic of any sort to enter one of these combs except through their designated entry point (like a bag of holding).
 
@Besw - So you made a demigod the guardian of your skull. Clever.
 
(But that you could use magic to leave.)
 
@Lord_Gareth Really? I can see it happening at Level 17, but 13 doesn't seem right.
 
@Simon - 13 is when you have full contingencies, teleports, shapeshifts, and divinations available, and it's in easy reach of being able to scroll-cast ninth level spells.
I've seen an 11th level build that managed to take out Erythnul in one spell volley
This keeping in mind that Erythnul's divine nature meant he knew the wizard was coming two weeks ahead of time.
 
@Lord_Gareth Honestly, I think it's that last bit that does the real damage. For everything else, there's minions.
 
11:47 AM
BUT NOW I MUST BEDTIME
Good nigt all!
Night, even
 
@Lord_Gareth Wizards are basically Batman vs Superman: Batman wins.
Ta!
 
12:04 PM
@BESW This is actually canon. Batman has defeated Superman in a fist fight. Mind you... Superman was hit by a nuke shortly beforehand, but Batman had something to do with that, too. And Batman was wearing a powered exosuit for part of it.
 
@JonathanHobbs Yup. I collect Batman Facts much more absurd than that.
And technically Batman didn't beat him.
 
@BESW Justice League vs Batman: Batman wins.
 
@JonathanHobbs Also true.
 
@BESW Sssh I am ignoring that bit in case anyone here happens upon that comic
 
Rob
Superhero powers: The best one is obscene amounts of money.
 
12:12 PM
Verifying that BESW is a beast at CharOp. With four feats and a character with +9 in Jump, he's just created a character who has +29 to Jump, and can make jumping power-attacks which come with +16 damage (for sacrificing -2 for the power attack; which is negated by the nature of the jumping attack). If it's a surprise attack, you can get an extra +2 to attack, and, if you like, spend that to get a +32 to damage instead of +16 at a total +0 modifier to attack.
And I think that is just a warmup
 
I'm not positive it's a charge.
 
"You can execute a charge by simply dropping from a height of at least 5 feet above your opponent."
It's a charge
 
Okay then.
And yes, this is just a quick from-memory of the character I built a few years ago.
I deliberately didn't Op him.
 
Uberchargers?
Are we talkin' bout uberchargers?
 
@Zachiel I was regaling @JonathanHobbs with tales of my spider-climbing jumpmaster scythe-wielding wood elf.
He thought it should be put in the main chat.
 
12:19 PM
Problem with uberchargers is you need to get away and stay away for the next charge
 
@Zachiel That's where jumping comes in.
 
you need to move horizontally at least 10 feet to use jump attack (which I presume is part of your build). Don't tell me you were jumping from side to side of the enemy
 
I can't remember exactly what I did.
But there was rarely just one enemy anyway. At the start of the battle.
 
I just need to add a way to use pounce on that
 
@BESW Wouldn't you jump from enemy to enemy?
Instead of attacking one enemy, you'd be alternating between two.
 
12:24 PM
@JonathanHobbs Well, most of the time there wasn't much alternating.
It was more like a praying mantis crossed with the grim reaper, but with a shock of red hair and a massive ego.
 
I have big problems roleplaying near to big ego monsters who can actually justify their ego
 
@Zachiel This guy was sure to include others!
 
Like "I'm your same level but I deal twice the damage you do, have 17 more AC, 20 more Will and Fort but at least you beat me on reflexes
 
I couldn't show up more than every two or three weeks, so my jumper was a Girl Genius inspired GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER.
He was convinced that he was the hero and the regular party members were his Spunky Sidekicks and Recurring Guest Stars.
 
<-<
I don't know how to roleplay charisma
others come in and just steal the scene
 
12:28 PM
I played him for laughs, firmly embedded in his delusions.
 
And noone ever took him to ground level?
 
@Zachiel He was friendly, outgoing, useful, and easy to trick into thinking your idea was his.
 
That last point isn't positive at all! Hay, that was my idea not yours! XD
 
The trick to playing an Ego, in my experience, is to either have the ego twist on being useful to others or have it be easily and amusingly bent into usefulness.
It's only if you-the-player are invested in you-the-character actually being on top that things get problematic.
 
The really problematic thing is when someone else knows how to do it and you don't
I don't want my character to be on top over the others. I want to be on top with the others.
Yet my character looks like an NPC sidekick while the lvl 13 ur-theurge deals more damage than an epic ubercharger paladin
it's the problem of games where the intelligence of the player opens up more possibilities
 
12:58 PM
@BESW Reminds of my plans for my next Sorc. Since he's charismatic (obviously) and the only male in the group, I decided to give him a tick and keep an "truthful adventuring diary" ... detailing all the (imagined, mostly) erotic adventures with both the ladies in the group and the female NPCs - and portraying him as the hero and them as often as he can as damsels in distress, thankful to be rescued ...
(I just hope the others don't get the diary in-character, though it should be good for a few laughs if the ladies find out and beat the living crap out of him ... :))
 
Rob
@Zachiel Damage isn't important; if you're the director then you wanted that theurge to do that; it's your plan, they're doing what you want - urgo you're back in charge
Delusion helps a lot
"Well done old chap, excellent spell - you're learning, now keep that up and we'll have this all wrapped up and I can speak to the press."
 
One of my elf's common themes was to listen to the party make a plan, and then announce "I've got a plan! It's complicated, let me explain...."
And then explain their plan to them.
 
Rob
@BESW I like it :)
 
@Rob "That is an excellent plan, we are glad you thought of it. What would we do without you?"
[I fail my Sense Motive utterly]
"PERISH, I expect! You're lucky I came along!"
 
Rob
Heh. And as long as you keep it amusing the rest of the players won't mind at all.
 
1:11 PM
Right.
It helped that I wasn't a regular player, just once or twice a month.
Here's something I've learned about playing chance-based RPG characters of any sort: design them to fail.
2
The dice or whatever will eventually fail you, and your character can't possibly be excellent at all fields of endeavor anyway.
So when you're building your guy's personality, plan for it. How does he react? How does he cope?
My elf never noticed. Not once. Failure was impossible for him, and so it never happened.
This, of course, led him to fail even more.
 
Rob
/me applause
Failure can be so much more fun than winning, if you can spin it
 
The most frustrated players I've ever seen are the ones who designed characters with personalities that had no room for failure.
 
Rob
As the world crashes down around you, you look to the others and say "Don't worry, everything's going exactly according to plan!"
 
You're familiar with Girl Genius, right?
 
Rob
I am; not read it that much however
 
1:16 PM
My elf was a carbon copy of OTHAR TRYGGVASSEN, GENTLEMAN ADVENTURER!
 
@Rob My more intelligent (or experienced) characters plan for failure. Chances are, if they say something like that, it's actually true.
Granted ... it might be somewhere between Plan C and Plan S, but still according to some plan. :)
 
Rob
@MartinSojka Har :) Keystone cops stuff?
The wizard I have in the PF game I'm playing is absolutely convinced the rest of the group are actually an experiment he's running and he's monitoring their progress, now and then he has to tweak the results a little. But it's going well, considering their basic handling of tactical situations etc etc
 
No, quite serious. A mix of McGuyver, Batman and Audie Murphy, if the system lets me pull it off.
 
Rob
@MartinSojka McGuyver, very important namecheck :)
 
2:22 PM
@Lord_Gareth: As I was trying to tell you, this chat is way better than notes. It's integrated in with the entire site so I get it even if I don't come to chat
@Lord_Gareth: the only one I know who has a chance of being able to answer that question is Gral. He'd probably be more interested in answering one of us and letting us take 'credit' for it than he would in registering here, at a guess
 
Cat
Morning all!
(or good day, as the case may be)
 
Rob
Ey up @Cat
 
@Cat It is indeed morning! By half an hour.
 
Cat
You're quite the night owl, @BESW!
 
@Cat It's this blasted book project.
 
Cat
2:31 PM
Ahhh...well, I hope it resolves itself for you quicly
(quickly)
 
[hollow laughter]
 
Cat
heheheh
 
It was supposed to finished in September.
 
Cat
Schedules are made to be broken :S
Anyway, I'm just back from classes and considering taking a break by working on my setting again. Trying to avoid the seedy underbelly this time....
Gotta go check the answers to my last question first though
 
Rob
@BESW What's the book?
 
2:39 PM
@Rob A 250+ page trilingual middle school social studies textbook about the local culture, written by local teachers and vetted by historical, cultural, and social experts from the different islands, and illustrated by local artists and photographers.
 
Rob
@BESW Holy cow; sounds like a management/contributor juggling act nightmare!
 
@Rob ....yes.
And the organizer isn't from here.
 
Rob
Yurk
 
@Rob Yeeeah. But it's a great project and I'm glad to be part of it.
 
Rob
A very important consideration :)
 
3:37 PM
@Cat Good luck with that :P
OK... so how is this off-the-cuff answer my third highest scoring answer?
16
A: Did piracy problems bring down White Wolf?

Simon GillThey are publishing much less new World of Darkness than they used to during the old World of Darkness, but it's not necessarily piracy that is causing the change. They are currently owned by CCP (the company behind Eve Online) and involved in creating the World of Darkness MMO. There has been a...

 
@SimonGill Votes are strange things. My three highest are all social engineering questions about intraparty dynamics. My fourth is about how to wish for extra arms.
 
@BESW Stranger beasts than many other things. The question appears to have 3 close votes so far too.
 
@SimonGill It does seem off-topic when compared to the average rpg.se question, though I don't think it actually is.
 
The 11 upvotes seem to agree with your second clause.
 
3:53 PM
urgh. I should just export this draft and go to bed, spacing errors be damned.
Protip: trilingual manuscripts suck.
 
Just once, I'd like my players to make characters by the book and not ask me to bend rules or create rules for 'little' extras.
 

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