TRPG General Chat

Lord_Gareth

8:04 PM

I return!

Heya @Okeefe

okeefe

Good afternoon.

Lord_Gareth

How's life working out for you?

okeefe

Ok. Got a phone interview about a job in a bit.

Lord_Gareth

Conga-rats ^_^

LitheOhm

8:23 PM

@okeefe good luck!

Lord_Gareth

Sorry about that, disconnected

@LitheOhm - Dunno if you want or need them at all, but I dropped a link to some resources in the comments on your thread. The Vorpal Tribble's guide, in particular, is awesome on a stick.

Simon Gill

@Lord_Gareth Those conga-rats are tricky buggers.

Lord_Gareth

I'm learning about Boolean operations

Pretty nifty stuff.

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm I did try and raise something in the discussion earlier about 4e to 3.5 monsters. There are generic monsters in 4e that you can compare to each monster to see whether a power is high/medium/low damage and whether there have been any tweaks to it. Those should be in the MM3 somewhere actually.

Lord_Gareth

8:43 PM

TIME TO DO

SOME MATH

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth will check it out

@SimonGill there are comparable monsters, like the catoblepas and the spell weavers. I wanted to pull in stuff I hadn't seen before

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm I was trying to help make that job easier ;)

LitheOhm

@SimonGill lol. Well thank you. As of tomorrow, hopefully that 4e MM3 will be traded for a Draconomicon

Simon Gill

Fair enough. Random monsters < DRAGONS.

LitheOhm

hehe. And dragon prestige classes, and dragon-horse mounts, and...

The idea of the Tulgar reminds me of the Final Fantasy movie "The Spirit Within" or whatever it was

they died, their spirits wandered and then they stumbled upon the material plane. Got bodies, but they're still kind of half-in half-out of the spirit world

Lord_Gareth

8:52 PM

@LitheOhm - You might be better off with Races of the Dragon. It's got some sexy, sexy content for sorcerers.

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Terrible terrible movie - despite being a fantastic tech demo for photorealistic rendering.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth I did see that one. Dragon advancement and some new dragon types really got my attention. Honestly I rarely ever get to play as a PC, but I'm cool with that. DMing lets me be more creative anyway

Lord_Gareth

Wibbles, @BrianBallsun-Stanton

LitheOhm

@SimonGill agreed. The plot wasn't suspenseful and it was as generic as FF gets, but the idea of a (spoiler everyone else) displaced and crashed Gaia, complete with aggressively confused spirits attached to it...

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Yeah, there was a core of a good idea in there.

LitheOhm

8:55 PM

@SimonGill totally. My games are very life-death centric and that hook caught my eye

Maybe it's my fascination with the Blood War and fiends in general lol

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm I wouldn't have thought that was life-death centric (as I understand that term anyway)

LitheOhm

what happens to mortals when they die?

Lord_Gareth

@LitheOhm - Do I have a thread for you or what. Sec.

giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265884 <-Bathe in the glory. Afroakuma's been a Planescape fanboy since 2e. Dude knows his stuff.

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm OK, yeah, that makes some sense.

Lord_Gareth

that thread's an ask-answer sort of deal

LitheOhm

8:57 PM

@SimonGill :)

@Lord_Gareth checking it out now

Simon Gill

I was thinking more along the lines of the positive-negative energy balance.

Lord_Gareth

Trouble is that pos/neg aren't quite life/death

LitheOhm

@SimonGill that too. I like how the evolved undead template handles undead. They are portrayed as literal tears in the material plane where the negative energy plane is seeping through

the evolved template strengthens their ties to the neg energy plane

Lord_Gareth

Positive energy is animative in nature - it creates life, but it also creates motion, energy, animation, verve, etc

Negative energy is entropic in nature. It destroys, consumes, defiles, corrupts, or annihilates

They AFFECT life and death

But the Outer Planes are the true homes of the dead and of death as a concept

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth nice thread

I read outer planes more often as aberrations. Think of Thoon, or any other really twisted aberration/aberrant class such as the alienist

Lord_Gareth

9:01 PM

Ah, you're thinking of the Far Realms

LitheOhm

the wheel of the planes in the DMG really sparked my interest in DMing

Lord_Gareth

The Outer Planes are the alignment-based planes

Celestia, Arborea, Arcadia, Acheron, Baator, the Abyss, Limbo, Outlands, etc etc

Simon Gill

@Lord_Gareth Home of the afterlife yes. But pos/neg as life/death works from a Prime Material perspective.

MadMAxJr

All of them are endless fun for boys and girls.

LitheOhm

@MadMAxJr definitely

Lord_Gareth

9:02 PM

@SimonGill - I was speaking from a prime material perspective. Positive energy isn't just life and negative energy isn't just death - if it was, you wouldn't see entropic animacy being a thing

Neg energy destroys and consumes, not just kills.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth I'm thinking of an entropic reaper, currently. I'm not sure I agree

not to say I'm not very interested in this discussion :D

Lord_Gareth

@LitheOhm - You mean the manifestation of entropic chaos native to Limbo?

:p

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth nope, I mean the grim reaper with an entropic scythe. From Libris Mortis, maybe

Lord_Gareth

Entropic Reapers are a form of undead that embodies the aspects of chaos that destroy, consume, and alter beyond recognition and are notable for being a planar form of undead, which is rare as hell

Yeah, we're thinking of the same thing

EReapers are part of a VERY special club

Simon Gill

@Lord_Gareth Very true. But thematically it is death, even if it's animated well enough to go out and bring more death.

Lord_Gareth

9:05 PM

Of undead that were never alive in the first place.

LitheOhm

nasty stuff. There's a magic item modeled after them. Sort of makes them as legendary as the phantasmal slayer

@Lord_Gareth definitely

in life versus death there's got to be a gray area for undeath.

Mockery of both life and death

positive and negative energy play with all three

Lord_Gareth

Only Nightwalkers (and their two cousins), Atropal Scions, Visages and Angels of Rot share that club with Entropic Reapers

Simon Gill

The negative energy plane (and the Shadowfell from 4E) compare quite well to the Underworld of Exalted.

Lord_Gareth

And it should be noted as well that all of the undead I just named are famed for their terrifying and singular power

LitheOhm

@SimonGill from what I read in the MM3 of the Shadowfell, I really like the concept

Lord_Gareth

9:07 PM

@SimonGill - I don't think that holds water. The Underworld of Exalted has, you know, THINGS in it. The Negative Energy Plane contains only 1. People stupid enough to be there 2. Undead taking advantage of the lack of objective gravity and 3. Floating blocks of anti-reality from which Spheres of Annihilation are made.

Maybe 4e changed it

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth blasphemers are really nice, too. There are also oozes that are composed of dead stuff, ie. skin, bones, etc.

dream vestiges are nasty in their own right

Lord_Gareth

@LitheOhm - Yeah but both of those were alive at some point. I was just talking about undead that never lived in the first place.

They're MESSED UP

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth dream vestiges weren't.

Lord_Gareth

They were part of things that lived, though.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth way different to make undead things from my toenail clippings than it is to make it from my corpse lol

Simon Gill

9:09 PM

@Lord_Gareth Yeah, there are things in it, mostly settled around a hole into the Void which wants to consume everything in existence but is choking on the Titans of the setting.

@Lord_Gareth The Shadowfell is more gloomy and gothic (with some Ravenloft influence) than the old neg energy plane.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth If I were a necromancer with planar travel, I'd be going to the neg energy plane.

Lord_Gareth

I wouldn't, there's nothing to gain there. No knowledge, no understanding, no powerful beings to contact.

Not even gods live there

Simon Gill

Point being - death is greedy and only held back by the vigor of life. That's what a life and death centric game means to me.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth screw contact, I'd be dragging stuff back with me.

Simon Gill

Rather than being about the difference between life and the afterlife.

Lord_Gareth

9:11 PM

A necromancer traveling the planes would be better served moving to Sigil and settling into The Pale

LitheOhm

@SimonGill I know many who focus on meaning of life in their big epic games. I take it differently and focus more on living, unliving and yes, afterlife

@Lord_Gareth A PC necromancer, sure.

Lord_Gareth

@LitheOhm - Like WHAT? Nightwalkers and their kin are the only things that "live" there and they're too powerful to enslave

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth how I read the evolved template, seems to me there'd be much more evolved undead on the negative energy plane. They are less corpse and more negative energy

Lord_Gareth

Try reading it again. The Evolved template relates to an undead's age, causing them to be more infused with negative energy, but it doesn't relate to the plane itself. The negative energy plane is almost as dangerous to the undead as it is to the living.

LitheOhm

an epic necro (ie. BBEG) could easily enslave a nightwalker, or even a demilich or atropal scion.

Lord_Gareth

9:13 PM

And Evolved Undead still need their bodies to live

Which is precisely what the plane would be destroying

LitheOhm

when I get my Libris Mortis, I'll check to see if you're correct. It's been a while.

Lord_Gareth

Couple this with the lack of prey and it gets really unappealing

LitheOhm

For now though, I don't believe that is.

MadMAxJr

The demi-plane of game developer hell.

LitheOhm

"As with positive-dominant planes, negative-dominant planes can be either minor or major. On minor negative-dominant planes, living creatures take 1d6 points of damage per round. At 0 hit points or lower, they crumble into ash.

Major negative-dominant planes are even more severe. Each round, those within must make a DC 25 Fortitude save or gain a negative level. A creature whose negative levels equal its current levels or Hit Dice is slain, becoming a wraith. "

d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm#negativeDominant

MadMAxJr

9:15 PM

While in game developer hell, rules are changed often and arbitrarily.

LitheOhm

the plane generates wraiths, I don't believe it's harmful to them

@MadMAxJr until a proper fit is found, I'd presume? Or until frustration wins?

ah, hell. Frustration.

Lord_Gareth

I said 'almost' as dangerous. The problem isn't the background negative energy. The problem is the floating masses of nearly-invisible anti-reality material

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm It's a hell. It will never end.

Lord_Gareth

This stuff drifts into you, or you touch it on accident and BLAM

LitheOhm

@SimonGill lol

Lord_Gareth

9:16 PM

Existence ceased

And it's ALL OVER the neg energy plane

MadMAxJr

It's full of mad hatters. CHANGE RULES!

Simon Gill

@MadMAxJr Why is a raven like a writing desk? Both are useless in solving crime. Join your local Turbo Ranger station today!

LitheOhm

wraiths aren't made of matter. A sphere wouldn't affect them, unless your neg energy planes function on different concepts of void/nothingness

Lord_Gareth

On top of that a lot of undead have to feed in order to live, stay sane, or both (Libris Mortis) and generally speaking the neg energy plane is 100% short on living things to prey upon.

LitheOhm

if that's used. I personally dislike the craving-not-met-starve-to-death rules.

MadMAxJr

9:19 PM

It's a designer elemental! Every time a rule is invoked in his presence, it must be changed.

WHY DO I NOW USE A d10 TO HIT?

Lord_Gareth

@LitheOhm - Wraiths and other incorporeal creatures are still affected by Spheres of Annihilation, and this is the stuff the Spheres are refined out of. It destroys "any creature or object" (into which incorporeal beings fall under Creature) that makes contact with it if they fail a save

LitheOhm

a vamp/ghoul/bodak who doesn't prey on something becoming crazed, sure, as their beast kicks in overdrive. But making them vulnerable? I dunno

Lord_Gareth

And undead are BAD at Fort saves when they have to make them. It's rare, but when they do they almost always fail it

LitheOhm

"Any matter that comes in contact with a sphere is instantly sucked into the void, gone, and utterly destroyed"

d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/artifacts.htm

Simon Gill

@MadMAxJr Because this is a roll-under system. Now check your THAC10.

LitheOhm

9:20 PM

I don't know if they'd qualify as matter, I think that's the point of being incorporeal

MadMAxJr

Spheres of Annihilation? No no. Marketing will never approve that name. Sphere of One Way Teleportation.

LitheOhm

disintegrate and similar effects, a different story. But the sphere isn't made with that spell, it's an artifact

@MadMAxJr lmao

Lord_Gareth

There's things that affect incorporeal creatures, and most siginificantly incorporeal creatures can interact with each other as though they're solid. Items like the Ghost Shroud (LMortis) and ghost touch weapons suggest that Incorporeal beings are made of SOMETHING

A few supplements, LMortis included, reference ectoplasm

Simon Gill

@MadMAxJr Sphere of One Way Time Travel To Before The Big Bang

LitheOhm

nah. I figure those are magical effects, extending to their semi-etheral form

Lord_Gareth

9:22 PM

And the Ghost Shroud being made of the skin of a ghost makes it what?

(See also Shadow Veil)

LitheOhm

I do recall ectoplasm from Ghostwalk, but unless one has a homebrew Slimer...

MadMAxJr

Sphere of One Way Transportation To Something You Like

LitheOhm

@MadMAxJr drink the Kool-Aid

Simon Gill

@LitheOhm Kool-Aid is a poison that deals 1d4 bonus Charisma damage.

MadMAxJr

But it adds 4 to your thirst threshold.

I really need to get out of designer hell. I've almost filled in all my frustration pips on my sheet.

Lord_Gareth

9:24 PM

When you get your LMortis again read it through. My copy's a good nine hundred miles away at the moment, but undead have always been a subject of interest for me

LitheOhm

@MadMAxJr does having them all full trigger a frenzy from Complete Warrior?

Lord_Gareth

And I try to know my neg energy and undeath.

LitheOhm

So I read, @Lord_Gareth

Lord_Gareth

Sadly WotC vacillates on its presentation of negative energy more than Romney in a debate

But that's par for the course for WotC >.<

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth if I am wrong, then I shall come to chat with my bowl of crow in hand. Short of that, I'll come back and help a fellow undead enthusiast :)

Lord_Gareth

9:27 PM

You interested in homebrew at all?

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth depends on the homebrew. I frequent DAndDWiki.com but end up ignoring most of it

Lord_Gareth

Oh god

Why would you go there >.<

The horror NEVER ENDS THERE

MadMAxJr

The homebrew I've been exposed to is largely, "I have a huge beef with X system so I 'fixed' it, my game is glorious and grand and if you disagree with me, I am going to go off in a tirade of epic proportions to shame you."

Which would be one of my highschool friends and his views on various parts of 2nd edition.

Simon Gill

@MadMAxJr You were in the World of Synnibar playtest?

MadMAxJr

No but I saw that on Kickstarter recently.

Lord_Gareth

9:31 PM

Well, in any event I made a pair of undeath-themed PrCs that you may or may not be interested in. The first, the Children of the Mausoleum -> giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6123947&postcount=6 <-are necro-Druids. The second, the Judices of the Pale Thorn, are the more martial branch of that organization -> giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13703264&postcount=20

Simon Gill

@MadMAxJr It's still going??? Holy crap.

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth haha. I like the pata weapon and the meteor hammer

@MadMAxJr it's so true

checking it out

so far digging the druid's flavor

appears to have been made for NPCs, primarily?

Lord_Gareth

No. I don't make NPC classes.

It's certainly USEFUL as an NPC

But the haunting ability is just one feature; not using it won't cripple you

Everything else can be packed up and taken with you

LitheOhm

ah, yes it is, I was just commenting on the Charnal Touch. 3/2/1/per 'encounter'

Lord_Gareth

Per-encounter wordings are part of 3.5

LitheOhm

9:37 PM

I like the create haunting. Prime NPC problem influence

Lord_Gareth

And an 'encounter' is a defined unit of time in 3.5

LitheOhm

hmm

yeah, but - does that mean that if no foes are around they can use it at will?

or only in the heat of an encounter?

Lord_Gareth

Per-encounter abilities are usable at-will outside of encounters, yes.

incidentally, enemies aren't the only kind of encounter

Traps and tense social negotiations also fall under 'encounter'

An 'encounter' is any situation in which you can gain non-roleplaying XP

LitheOhm

I like awakening unintelligent undead.

Lord_Gareth

Or, in other terms, any situation in which you face a significant challenge.

LitheOhm

9:40 PM

did you playtest this one? That 'cannot be turned or rebuked' seems way strong

true, only within that area

Lord_Gareth

On top of that, by the time that ability comes online most undead have too many HD to be turned or rebuked in the first place

because their HD outstrips their CR RAPIDLY

LitheOhm

yeah. Plus turn resist

and it's just forty feet

Lord_Gareth

^_^

LitheOhm

one minute per class level

good call

interesting way of bypassing the expense of black onyx gems lol, with the tenth level ability

Lord_Gareth

^_^

LitheOhm

9:44 PM

ahh love Summon the Netherworld

Lord_Gareth

"Excuse me sir, but did someone order PURE ESSENCE OF ANNIHILATION in this combat?"

LitheOhm

haha

very nice class

Lord_Gareth

The Judices of the Pale Thorn (the other class) are a related organization the welcomes martial characters and rangers to the cause.

They bond with a weapon formed of undead plants

LitheOhm

hm

your artwork?

Lord_Gareth

(Random fun fact: Judex is a latin term meaning 'Judge')

No, but I don't know who made it - that's why I state "art credit unknown" below the picture

LitheOhm

9:47 PM

kk. Hadn't gotten that far lol. It's good

Lord_Gareth

BUT NOW I MUST GO SHOWER AND GET READY FOR CLASS

I'll talk more later - glad you liked the Children ^_^

LitheOhm

@Lord_Gareth have fun

they are nice :D

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