TRPG General Chat

Hot RPG Questions

00:57

5

Q: If a Gelatinous Cube takes up the entire space of a Pit Trap, what happens when a creature falls into the trap but succeeds on the saving throw?

A player character falls into a 10 foot x 10 foot concealed pit trap, which is 20 feet deep. At the bottom of this pit is a gelatinous cube, which occupies all of the bottom 10 x 10 x 10 (width x height x depth) area of the pit. The rules for a gelatinous cube (from the Monster Manual, page 242)...

nitsua60

@V2Blast nitpick: that wasn't a clarification in your recent edit, it was a rewording.

BESW

01:51

@goodguy5 I've just joined Fate and Gumshoe servers on Discord.

Hot RPG Questions

02:54

5

Q: How is it possible to have an ability score that is less than 3?

The “Ability Scores And Modifiers” table on page 13 of the phb indicates that an ability score of 1 (resulting in a -5 modifier) or 2 (resulting in a -4 modifier) is possible. This, however, does not seem possible given the methods (provided on said page) used to determine ability scores. I mus...

dnd-5e ability-scores

trogdor

03:05

@HotRPGQuestions just play Baba is You for about three hours to feel your brain melting

That will about do it

Ben

03:16

Necromancer: [checking the wanted posters to see if he's on any of them]
Rogue: Are you a criminal??
Necromancer: Not here

BESW

yet.

trogdor

Lol

user15026

@trogdor I haven't played that, but I suspect the logic it wants would make me explode

user15026

I'm not good at those sorts of sideways thinking

Ben

Depends on how much the DM likes you

trogdor

03:18

@Ash I've literally played three hours of it last weekend

So my brain already exploded a little

user15026

gets out the mop and bucket

trogdor

@Ash I thought I would be good at it, u watched someone else play it and was like " look at this idiot failing when he almost has the puzzle and moving on to the next thing, I'm gonna do way better"

It didn't happen

My brain is still melting

Help me baba, baba is not helping

Baba is defeat and melt

user15026

tucks wads of cotton in your ears to keep the brains in

trogdor

Baba is stop

Baba is sink

Baba is not you

Baba is you and defeat

Turns out that guy is not idiot

That guy is me

Baba is me

Baba needs the easy levels back

I've gotten stuck on,... I think all the puzzles I have available that I have not already beaten I think

I feel like I'm missing something even though I understand all the rulesets

And I'm pretty good at this kind of game

This isn't me trying something just because I thought it was easy, I though it would be a little hard but that I would beat it In one or two sittings

I'm not even sure that this moment that I will ever finish baba is you at all

To futilely beat an undead horse, baba is you is the dark souls of this kind of puzzle game

BESW

03:36

hey guys! i made a new layout for my lasers & feelings spider-verse hack, EVEN MORE SPIDERS! it's v much inspired by @john_harper's l&f layout and i'm v proud of it! get the pdf for pwyw here: https://metagame.itch.io/even-more-spiders

Tweeted by jaceaddax on April 4, 2019 at 8:52 PM

trogdor

It's a game about Changing the rules you are working with and trying to predict what the consequences will be and realizing the thing you did four moves ago made everything you are trying to do impossible

Miniman

@Ben Oh hey, I got sick of waiting for you to show up here and pinged you in Discord - I beat Big D last night!

user15026

@trogdor that's my impression yes

Ben

@Miniman Oh nice :D

BESW

Setting idea for @Sk1mble & @EvilHatOfficial's Secrets of Cats: Humans who walk Dubrovnik Old Town's walls unknowingly reinforce deep protective magic. When even that can't stop the Kudlak, the local cats shoulder the burden instead. (Starring Ser Pounce.) https://bit.ly/2FPqu28

Tweeted by Supermorff on April 4, 2019 at 6:51 PM

Ben

03:38

Yeah I have no idea why, but I just don't get notifications on discord :/

trogdor

@Ash you are smarter than me, I thought I could change the rules and just win, in fact changing the rules is how I am losing the game XD

It's frustrating but also somehow invigorating

Miniman

@Ben Lazarus was pretty disappointing, after all that hype (including trying to figure out how to get into his room for longer than I'm willing to admit) - 2 fireballs wiped out him and his entire bodyguard contingent.

But Diablo was pretty serious.

Ben

It's been so long since I fought Lazarus and Diablo.

Miniman

It was interesting, compared to D2 Diablo - in D2 his stuff is pretty easy to dodge, which is good because it's almost a 1-hit kill, but in D1 you're getting hit so often it's hard to cast anything, but it does very little damage.

Of course, it helps that my buddy Lachdanan gave me a hat that maxed out my resistances to everything.

Ben

Oh interesting.. It''llbe interesting to see how it goes with Aidan

I've opted for the sword/shield combo

Which basically ends up in a fairly repetitive "clunk clunk clunk"

Shalvenay

04:15

hey there @Quentin

Miniman

04:29

Yeah, I ended up tanking him with him in a firewall and me not, which isn't going to be an option for you.

Ben

@Miniman Mage armour, hydras and fireballs is the common mage tactic lol

Miniman

@Ben I just found it way easier to sit there - my hydra does good damage, but it's not too reliable at hitting moving targets. Same with fireball, whereas as long as I let him whale on me, he's guaranteed to sit still in a firewall and burn to death.

Ben

Yeah

Prjectiles are unfortunately very unreliable

Miniman

Couldn't do it in D2, but potions in this one are just amazingly good.

Ben

Though - Hiddens will actually retreat in a straight line when they turn invisible

Miniman

04:39

@Ben Yeah, I noticed XD

kviiri

05:10

Mornin'

Sunny days keep on coming, yet I wish rain'd come and flush the dust off the streets. What's up elsewhere?

Ben

The weather here doesn't know what it wants to do. It was drizzling this morning, but the heat has doubled and the winds picked up, but the sky still looks like it does when there's a big magical doom storm coming like in the movies

trogdor

It's pretty ok weather wise around here

kviiri

05:29

I also re-re-re-fixed my research code yesterday

Ben

I'm trying to remember what I did on Tuesday

kviiri

I had a stupid little convenience for a parallelism library: if a set matches a propery, return it --- otherwise return an empty set. Too bad empty sets also often have the desired property...

A few days of work wasted, but it was fun to debug

@Ben Sounds exactly like a Tuesday

But for me, it was Tuesday.

trogdor

I'm trying to figure out how I lost Thursday, or maybe today?

Because I thought today was Thursday

Ben

Time seems to have been running at a very strange pace lately. Yesterday I thought it was still Tuesday.

kviiri

I felt like Friday yesterday

Maybe it balances out?

Ben

05:42

And the week before felt like it had been nearly 2 weeks, but the days hadn't been any different. The week had just been twice as long

trogdor

I'm glad this wasn't just me

kviiri

05:57

The bus route I take to work goes near where I lived when I was a kid. Gotta love the familiar scenery

Even if the dusty fields before the first proper Spring rains are an acquired aesthetic taste.

Hot RPG Questions

06:51

3

Q: How many spell slots should my level 1 wizard/level 1 fighter have?

I am working on making a wizard fighter multiclass character where the wizard is the original class. How many spells should I have in my spellbook if I am a level 1 wizard and level 1 fighter? I have looked, but I could not find an answer and I am a little confused by what it says in the PHB.

dnd-5e wizard multi-classing fighter

trogdor

@HotRPGQuestions the same as your level one wizard?

I don't understand the confusion

the confusion confuses me

kviiri

07:33

The confusion ties in with WotC in their wisdom having decided that "spell slot" is a perfectly good name for the mechanic it is

trogdor

07:45

yes that is true

I just don't understand,... if they think they get spells for fighter levels

I realize the whole thing together can be very confusing though

V2Blast

lots of people get confused about how multiclassing interacts with spellcasting

trogdor

lots of people get confused about DND

V2Blast

in this case, they might think "I'm a level 2 character, so should I look at the 2nd-level row of the wizard table?"

trogdor

and that's Wizards fault

BESW

> ~~lots of~~ people get confused about ~~how~~ multiclassing ~~interacts with spellcasting~~

Fixed it for you.

V2Blast

07:46

when in fact they should see that the multiclassing spellcasting rules state that you know/prepare spells as if single-classed in each respective class

lots of people get confused

tl;dr

2

BESW

But you know what? It's not 4e.

trogdor

@BESW no it isn't and that is sad

BESW

This is one place I'm gonna tip my hat to every other edition of D&D because 4e's attempts at giving you opportunities to mix two classes were wild.

trogdor

or do you mean 4e multiclassing because actually that was pretty bad in many ways

BESW

Multiclassing was kinda cool but usually underwhelming, and hybrid classes were insane.

trogdor

07:48

@BESW actually yeah I revise what I said, HYBRID CLASSES WERE FROM THE FAR REALM

multiclassing was ok IF YOU KNEW HALF OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING

I used it on,.... maybe all the characters I played actually

besides Tak Tha because part of the point of him was making a crazy scary fighter with nothing at all from other classes

and cheating a little with the racial choice

BESW

Yeah, multiclassing had potential but was limited to a handful of useful options. Hybrids were "Why is this even an option" or "Do you like bookkeeping? NOW YOU ARE THE MASTER OF THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE" and nothing in between.

trogdor

we did use Hybrid for the warlord though

because he just literally had,... a concept we could only make by hybriding two specific classes together

BESW

Oh yeah, we had a couple of hybrids. They were NOW YOU ARE THE MASTER choices fueled by The Power of Bookkeeping.

trogdor

yeah

but in general it was not worth it

BESW

A couple of Lars' characters were hybrids... because Lars, mostly.

trogdor

07:51

yeaaaaaaah

I was not even gonna mention that

but like, what more was anyone supposed to expect from him if they had ever met him at all

?

BESW

But yes, the Roll No Attacks character was beautiful.

trogdor

not that I ever knew him for as long as you did but I mean come on

@BESW it was a masterpiece

the only character I am more proud of is the push fighter

the freaking stupidly good at what he does "goodbye forever" push fighter

I also loved sitting next to his player to just be the living database of what he could do

V2Blast

I've never played 4e so I only know bits and pieces of the shenanigans involved

trogdor

which was mostly "this is your push bonus now"

@V2Blast it had them for sure

I feel like some of the people who never gave it a chance would have liked it better if they realized even half of what you could do with the system

@V2Blast if you want an example I could give you one

BESW

@V2Blast Put it this way: our group had one guy who never rolled any attacks. Instead he used all his actions to have other people attack, charge, swap places, and so forth. And we also had a guy who, if you even came near him, would send you flying halfway across the map and fall prone and only able to move two squares per move action on your next turn.

trogdor

07:58

@BESW good summary at least XD

BESW

And the guy who granted attacks? The attacks he granted the other guy triggered all his "go away and think about what you've done" nonsense.

trogdor

that was extremely deliberate

or well,... really it was more like a side effect of "no yeah I am just going to build this guy so it works on all his attacks"

BESW

Trogdor played a character who would pick a target and go invisible to them... but if they attacked anyone except him they'd take damage. And he was the reasonable build.

V2Blast

@BESW oh my

trogdor

@BESW compared yes indeed

it did interfere a little with the fighter though

because it used a mark

BESW

08:00

Then there was the one who dealt no damage, ever, but his attacks made people fall over, unable to move or teleport and only able to use one action on their next turn.

trogdor

@BESW yeah the guy who just used his turn to make other people do nothing

I don't know why he enjoyed that but it was effective

BESW

And he could use it as an area of effect in case his target was invisible but he could guess where they were.

V2Blast

looks like this posts needs some more spam flags:

-7

Q: Network error: Software caused connection abort winscp

i had issue in winscp last three days, then what should i do, issue is Network error: Software caused connection abort click to resolved

pathfinder

(it has links in it, which is what gives it away as spam instead of a lost user)

Someone_Evil

It has the same link twice, specifically

BESW

Yeah, good catch.

@V2Blast 4e was really really complex... but all the piece fit together nicely, which was a welcome change from 3.5 where complexity was synonymous with confusion. It achieved this by having a limited set of standardized mechanics and being very careful about ever introducing significant exceptions to them... but being VERY creative about how you could mix them together.

Standardized phrasings meant that two similar effects probably interacted the same way with a third effect. [gasp shock]

trogdor

08:05

yeah

and to think when we started I was afraid 4E wouldn't have enough options

no joke

but it totally had more than I could use (and I made at least 100 different characters that I never used, and that never got used by anyone all to see if I could execute interesting concepts)

BESW

heck, even just the fighter class entirely changed how it played depending on which style and weapon specializations you chose. Like, the fighter class's signature playstyle was "If you get near me, I can keep you near me and punish you for trying to leave or attack anyone except me." But the guy who specialized in pushing people across the map? Was a fighter.

trogdor

and that's on top of the handful of characters I made for myself and also other players for their own concepts that they didn't want to dig up the system to figure out how to do

@BESW yes

and after doing that I made Tak Tha to literally just Supercharge the "stay near me" thing

BESW

Tak Tha was a fighter who grabbed one person and dragged them to a corner where he'd rip them to shreds.

trogdor

literally force people to in other words XD

@BESW yes, they couldn't leave obviously

totally the original concept fighter

nothing silly/horrible/terrifying about it

noooo reason to be scared at all

he definitely wasn't hilariously introduced to the party like some horrible monster

BESW

(Important additional information: Tak Tha was thri-kreen, a rare D&D playable humanoid insect who is super-fast and looks like a xenomorph that burst out of Freddy Krueger.)

trogdor

08:11

lol

well, a Xenomorph that burst out of a large preying mantis

lol

the rest of the body isn't very preying mantis but the head of a Thri Kreen is actually a pretty good copy of one

more or less I guess

depending which art you use

except he only used one handed weapons so he could still grab people

I had hoped to eventually let him grab like, 2 or 3 or 4 people at a time but that didn't happen

so instead he was so good at grabing one thing it would never get away

unless it could teleport

which I could never fix because that was a weapon enchant :/

Hot RPG Questions

08:28

5

Q: What defenses are there against being summoned by the Gate spell?

The spell Gate allows the caster to summon any creature whose name is known to them. When you cast this spell, you can speak the name of a specific creature (a pseudonym, title, or nickname doesn't work). If that creature is on a plane other than the one you are on, the portal opens in the n...

dnd-5e spells teleportation

BESW

Big Dog with Big Stick Can't Get Passed A Gate! Funny and Cute!

►

trogdor

08:43

hehe animals are so dumb

:P

(obligatory joke about how humans do dumb #@$#$# all the time)

that I don't have the energy to come up with

BESW

trogdor

oh man too far

:P

BESW

Source is A Girl and Her Fed, a comic (and novels) about a government conspiracy, cyborgs, and ghosts of the famous dead.

trogdor

08:58

I thought it might be that

kviiri

@trogdor Me at 8 years old: "I'm gonna see if the stove is already hot by feeling it with my hand!" Also at 12, 13, 16, 23, 25 and 26 years old.

trogdor

from the art style

@kviiri I touched it accidentally a little less than a week ago

I swear I was reaching for a plate near it

not the stove itself XD

well specifically the grille thing over the burner

which is freaking huge by the way

BESW

I've got a nasty blister from getting a casserole out of the oven.

trogdor

takes up way more space than it should

so yeah that dog is actually pretty smart, he doesn't touch the stove

XD

and he did get that stick

eventually

kviiri

10:30

@BESW I never got the point of Hybrid classes

I tried to read the rules, briefly

But I didn't get the point at all and it sucked what curiosity I had toward them in almost no time.

BESW

Honestly I think they exist because the designers felt like they should rather than because of any particular effect they felt was missing.

But in practice they wound up filling a much-needed system mastery "hardmode" function for players.

kviiri

For one, I have zero idea what is the defining difference between multiclass and hybrid, in- or out-of-universe

2

Or what is it supposed to be.

BESW

Mechanically? in 4e multiclass gives you a smattering of one class added on top of everything from your primary class, at the expense of a few feat slots. Hybrids give you a lot but not all of the features of two different classes mashed together into a new kind of class that may or may not be playable.

Diegetically, 4e didn't really care. Mechanics and flavor are held at arms'-length from each other in that system.

kviiri

@BESW Ah ok. I guess my perspective on what multiclassing means has been coloured by DnD 5e (where multiclassing is almost "equal" respecting one's original and later class levels)

But now that you mentioned, yeah, I do recall a friend multiclassing into cleric and gaining a single Healing Word, daily, or somesuch.

BESW

@kviiri Yeah, that's how 3.5e did it too.

kviiri

10:35

Fascinating

BESW

In 4e, multiclassing was a feat you took which gave you a skill boost and a couple of scaled-down class features, and access to anything else which had that class as a prequisite, and access to a line of feats which let you take that class's powers instead of your primary class's powers as you leveled up.

In 4e, it's impossible to just... take a new level in a different class. That's not how the system works.

So multiclassing was implemented via feats, and you could only take one multiclass feat unless you were a bard.

Hybrids were a choice you made at character creation, where your chosen class was actually a mashup of TWO classes, getting some features from each, and every time you gain a new power as you level up you can choose from either of the two classes.

That's why we made a hybrid warlord/shaman for the no-attacks-ever character; only by gaining access to BOTH sets of powers was it possible to get a non-attacking attack power at every level.

kviiri

Okay

All in all I disliked multiclassing a lot back when I first played DnD (and 4e)

BESW

Yeah, it often felt underwhelming.

Sometimes you could find a really cool trick, otherwise it was basically pointless or just a gimmick to get access to a paragon path you want.

Trogdor's warlock (fey pact, his at-will made him invisible to his target) multiclassed into paladin (once per encounter, pick a target and they take damage and -2 to hit if they attack anyone except you). It was hilarious.

3

doppelgreener

The trolladin

BESW

10:52

"I challenge you to single combat!" [vanishes]

trogdor

@BESW yeah and I feel like that was a horrible way to do it but it worked sometimes?

doppelgreener

Didn't hybrid give you kinda the worst of both classes, which would just hopefully be good in unison?

trogdor

@doppelgreener that's what I discovered when I wanted to use Hybrid with,.... paladin and Warlock

BESW

Yeah, sorta. You'd get most-not-all of each class's features, some of them watered down a little.

You usually had to find synergy gimmicks by combining multiple feats and powers that usually no single character would have access to all of.

trogdor

at some point, I don't remember if it was early or a little later, but I looked at that because I wanted to mark and go invisible and maybe do more stuff from both classes

but it was BS

almost all the stuff I actually liked about Paladin and Warlock were the things that went away with hybriding

it's,..... really bad

BESW

10:56

Like hybriding ranger for its at-will powers with really cool debuff effects, with rogue for its feats that let you replace sneak attack dice with really cool debuff effects, to make a debuff-bot.

trogdor

the only reason we had a Hybrid character was because of the no attacks thing

and only because that was the only way we could accomplish that

@BESW there are some things like that but,.... it was mostly bad

BESW

Yeah.

trogdor

also,....

as far as multiclassing, for example

the horrible unusable vampire class?

take the multiclass feat for it and you get everything good in the class with almost none of the bad stuff

it was silly but I did that

BESW

There was also some hilarious gimmicks you could pull off with the healing-class druid variant which used the cleric's healing power so they didn't have to invent a whole new set of feats and items to support the new class... and it was the third druid class they'd invented.

trogdor

with one of my many side characters

BESW

10:59

So if you hybrided druid with cleric, you could qualify for feats and options that were designed for five or six different classes.

trogdor

I had wanted him to just be a vampire but I looked at the class and it sucked (ha ha unintentional pun)

BESW

It was so so messy, but highly amusing.

trogdor

@BESW did anyone do that actually?

in our group anyway

I'm sure someone under the sun did it anyway

BESW

I tried but gave up.

trogdor

ah

BESW

11:01

The bookkeeping of which effects applied to which features under which circumstances got waaaaaay out of hand.

trogdor

I also have to give props to 4e for how "tanks" were designed

instead of just being the guy who wants to force everyone to hit you, you are the guy that gives them door number 1 and door number 2 and behind both doors is disappointment

BESW

Yeah, the mark mechanic was clever and they kept coming up with cool new ways to implement it.

trogdor

@BESW yes exactly the fact that every class that did it still used the mark mechanic but did it in a different way was great

like I would have loved to play that one Dragonborn Warden I made

who marked people all over him and then made them explode

in lightning damage

to be fair that wasn't entirely normal but that's just part of how cool 4e was

BESW

For people unfamiliar, in 4e "mark" was a thing that defender-style classes (tanks) could do to enemies. It imposed -2 to all attacks that didn't include the defender who applied the mark.

trogdor

you could build so many different things and for him the gimick was that being marked by him was really bad for your health

and he was a warden so being marked by him meant going anywhere near him XD

BESW

11:07

Every defender class had a different way of applying the mark (fighters applied it for one round automatically to everyone they tried to attack, every time they tried to attack; paladins chose one guy who was marked until dead or the paladin changed targets),
and every class had different effects they could apply to the people they marked (fighters got free attacks if you did pretty much anything except attack them while standing next to them; paladins dealt automatic damage if you attacked anyone else even if you were far away from the paladin).

trogdor

(wardens spend a minor action to mark everyone in a square touching thiers, I think Swordmages got to pick one target like paladins)

(battleminds don't even get started they mark 2 million different ways because Psionic classes are weird, yes they have some normal way they did it but I looked at their powers, and there was a lot of mark em this way mark em that way)

(like mark the target of this attack, or everyone around the target of this attack, or attack and choose someone else to be marked or wtv)

kviiri

My issue with multiclassing in 5e is that it as a mechanic meshes really bad with level tiering, and that it seems to always invariably either significantly weaken a character, or produce a really powerful, broken build.

doppelgreener

Oh, yeah. It was a nice thing that 4e just operated on a basis of character level.

There was no concept of class levels.

trogdor

yeah

BESW

And even in 4e multiclassing and hybriding were some of the biggest potential trap choices.

trogdor

11:13

@doppelgreener I mean, to be fair, if they had tried that it would have been even messier than any other edition

doppelgreener

Everyone took a paragon class at level 10 and it just gave you powers at three specific character levels. You didn't have to start taking one instead of your regular levels, they were just part of your regular levelling.

trogdor

@doppelgreener that too, it would have sucked if you had to choose between stuff

kviiri

(for those who don't know: 5e characters grow at "spurts" where different class levels give vastly varying amounts of power, causing a potentially wide gap between two characters one level apart)

trogdor

@kviiri 3.5 was like this too

kviiri

I kinda like the idea of "mandatory" multiclassing, where everyone commits to taking multiclass levels (or even better, have a rule set working like that) to give a bit of color while preserving balance

BESW

11:18

@kviiri That's pretty much what 4e's tier system felt like, and it was awesome.

trogdor

yeah 4e had all the balance I could want between classes

that was my personal favorite thing about it

BESW

Except vampire and seeker.

trogdor

instead of being worried about the wizard carrying everyone you could instead worry about fulfilling your role in a group

BESW

Those were terrible. The best thing you could say about seeker was that it sounded cool.

trogdor

@BESW HSSSSSSSSSSSS

kviiri

11:20

@BESW Yea

trogdor

yeah Vampire,... had some really cool almost broken bonuses,.... and then also horrible drawbacks

and then the powers and feat support were just bad

BESW

(Call upon primal spirits of nature to empower my thrown weapons to do amazing things? Yes please! ...oh wait this is all deeply underwhelming and if I leverage system mastery to its utmost I can compete with a mediocre ranger.)

trogdor

I tried to build a seeker one time in my :File of the Never Played 100" and he was at the boooooooooooootoooooooom he was mediocre at best

and I freakin tried man

I did

I think basically, after getting to about level seven he could,... hit two people with each attack and do less damage than most strikers who I had made

BESW

Seriously all the build guides for seekers basically boiled down to "If you're really sure you want to do this (are you sure? okay...), the trick is to use one of the overpowered gimmicks that any class can access because being seeker does NOTHING."

trogdor

and like,.... maybe pop nearby minions if any where near his targets?

BESW

11:24

The major problem with seeker was that, bafflingly, it was a class designed to debuff targets but all its debuffs were five to ten levels behind what they should have been.

trogdor

it sucked

BESW

So its debuffs were sad, but it still had the lowered damage output that control-based classes always get.

trogdor

yeah

I mean,.... just play a warlock

better damage AND better buffs

BESW

So it couldn't contribute effectively as a striker either. And it had underwhelming utility, especially movement utility.

trogdor

minus to hit on targets at low levels, or invisibility to a target, or dots

and at mid levels start dazing people

at slightly higher levels start dominating

look back at the seeker and he's finally giving minus to hit

:/

BESW

11:27

Next time I play a PC in a fantasy-ish Fate game I'm gonna make a seeker.

And he's gonna actually be fun, because Fate.

trogdor

what a seeker should be

kviiri

I wonder how Seeker came to be that way

trogdor

so do I

kviiri

I think 4e is generally regarded as being quite excellent in class balance --- did they get unlucky once? Or lucky many times?

trogdor

most other classes (just forget vampire) were good

even out of the box you could make them work just fine

@kviiri again, the class balance was really good on the other classes

BESW

11:30

Toward the end of 4e they started running out of really solid ideas and started experimenting--partly because they needed to keep pumping out material despite running low on good concepts, and partly because the last cycle of an edition is always experimental.

trogdor

not every class was going to be as good as the others with the same level of optimization at everything, but they all did the things they were good at at the same level

kviiri

@trogdor I know, it's why I'm wondering

trogdor

@kviiri yeah

sorry

kviiri

It's ok ^^

trogdor

I just have a knee jerk reation about that XD

I love 4e class balance

BESW

11:32

Seeker was baffling, it's really obvious what its problems are and how to fix it.

kviiri

Psionics, urgh... the 4e version didn't work well with me. I never got PHB3 and I don't really miss it

BESW

Vampire... eh, it was one of the last splat books in the edition and the whole book was very experimental.

Yeah, 4e psionics were very clever but not so playable.

trogdor

Psionics were weird

I would say they were playable but what they were not was worth the effort

they were actually powerful and versitle

buuuuuuut you had to really dig into the system to do that

the effort involved was like 2 or 3 times more for a psionic character, generally, than from an equivalent class

BESW

Psionic classes tended to take at least 25% longer per turn than most other characters at the table: the bookkeeping was annoying and the options were paralysing.

trogdor

yes that too

IF you were some kind of ACTUAL MIND WIZARD you could play a psionic character at the table and be real powerful and versatile though

on paper they were great

BESW

11:36

Actual Mind Wizard would be a good name for a band.

trogdor

believe me, I made a lot of characters, on paper XD

@BESW indeed

doppelgreener

12:18

@BESW Please do! I'd like to run one.

BESW

12:31

@doppelgreener Whenever you like.

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: Does Otiluke's Resilient Sphere beat Magic Circle?

Magic Circle has the following effect on creatures of a specified type: The creature can't willingly enter the Cylinder by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use teleportation or interplanar travel to do so, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw. Otiluke's Resilient Spher...

dnd-5e spells

trogdor

12:48

it certainly sounds fun

Yuuki

Wait, "bearded but stylish"?

> bearded and stylish

fixed

nitsua60

13:04

@kviiri A year or two back we played a campaign with my school group where all PCs were the remnants of a thieves' guild that'd been wiped off the map. So we all started with 1 level of rogue, then had to take other levels. Because there had been nobody to teach us thief-ey things. So we had a bunch of Th/Wz and Th/Ftr and Th/Bd types wandering around trying to find who'd massacred our organization. It added a lot of flavor =)

doppelgreener

Oh, that's cool.

Yuuki

@nitsua60 A more focused chargen seems like it'd be pretty fun.

kviiri

@nitsua60 Ooh, fascinating concept

trogdor

13:40

@Yuuki I don't know about that but wtv tickles your fancy I guess

Rubiksmoose

@nitsua60 that's really cool

@trogdor let your beard get long enough and it gets really good at tickling

doppelgreener

@BESW Sometime in May or June?

Cc @trogdor

trogdor

As far as I know that would be fine

@Rubiksmoose tis true

A little too good, I don't like the fact that itch it gives me

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