TRPG General Chat

Joshua Aslan Smith

20:01

@doppelgreener gotcha just as its own seperate thing makes sense you did cover a good amount of ground

doppelgreener

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yeah. :D It was borderline in scope of what Mxyzplk was requesting to the feedback question and I wasn't sure whether to make it a question vs an answer, and since he felt it ought to be its own meta (& several people upvoted that comment in agreement too) I figured I'll do it that way.

I've mixed feelings about how helpful it will be for it to be capable of gathering answer replies, but I suppose the benefits outweigh the risks, since people will be able to respond to it in long form should they feel the need to do so.

Papayaman1000

Hey, @doppelgreener, ever try Google Image Searching yourself? It's funny what I find.

doppelgreener

@Papayaman1000 I get me! And other things. And a rifle mechanism?

Ha! A "doppel-greener-verschluss"; the double barrel crossbolt rifle action.

Papayaman1000

@doppelgreener Most of them (past your profile pics) are a bunch of images from questions you've close-voted on Board&Cards.SE

doppelgreener

Interesting!

Joshua Aslan Smith

20:17

@Papayaman1000 love that site for my own help but I dont play enough to ever earn rep there

Papayaman1000

20:36

@JoshuaAslanSmith I don't ever really touch it since most questions are about MTG and I just use the incredibly-extensive PDF and errata

Yuuki

Had an idea for a magic item.

> Bloodstone - wondrous item, cursed
> When casting a spell, roll a Constitution save.
> On failure, the spell does not consume a spell slot but you take necrotic damage equivalent to the level of spell.
> The bloodstone resists disposal and, upon being thrown away, will return in 1d4 days and you will take equivalent necrotic damage.

godskook

What's necrotic damage?

Yuuki

@godskook It's one of the damage types in 5e. Supposed to represent draining and decay and such.

Adam

@godskook It's damage that decays the flesh and withers the soul

godskook

#CrunchNotFluff

Adam

20:40

It's like using concentrated death essence as a weapon

Yuuki

@godskook It's a damage type.

Adam

crunch it's a damage type and is no different than slashing

Yuuki

Like fire, cold, electricity.

@Adam Well, being magic, I think it ignores damage resistance.

godskook

Can you utterly negate the damage like you can low-grade energy damage in 3.5?

Cause in 3.5, getting fire resistance 5/10 is rather trivial at the relevant levels of this.

Adam

@Yuuki Yeah, but you could argue that it's magic because you really only can deal it from spells or magic weapons. In the same way that spells and magic weapons that deal slashing can overcome resistances

Yuuki

20:42

I don't think you get flat resistance in 5e.

Resistance just halves damage.

godskook

Also, you say "you will take equivalent necrotic damage", does that mean that if you cast 80 bajillion spells while its gone, you take 80 bajillion damage when it shows back up?

Yuuki

No, you take 1 damage for every day that it's gone when it gets back to you.

Adam

@Yuuki There are certain abilities that can reduce the damage you take from attacks and such things, but nothing that I would classify as resistance

Yuuki

So, you throw it away. Roll 1d4. Get 3. That means after 3 days, it reappears in your inventory somehow and you take 3 necrotic damage.

godskook

Then the wording needs cleaning up.

Cause that wasn't in my top 2 interpretations.

Yuuki

20:45

I'm wondering if the damage is too low though.

godskook

How common is healing in 5e?

Yuuki

I haven't played too much 5e, so I don't know too much about stat balance.

Adam

stupid common

Healing 1d4 damage is trivial

Yuuki

I know I have like 54 HP currently on 8th level Rogue so I'm concerned that the damage is too low.

godskook

Let me put it this way, in 3.5

Yuuki

20:46

Maybe instead of dealing damage, it lowers your maximum HP until you rest?

godskook

I'd intentionally fail the save every damn time.

And just heal post-combat.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@SevenSidedDie herro

godskook

Cause healing 2xHD damage every combat is rather trivial in 3.5 compared ot the power of infinite spell slots.

Yuuki

Alternately, instead of scaling it to the level of spell, I could scale it to the level of the character.

diego

@Yuuki That would probably be better (an only have it happen on a long rest), because otherwise if anyone with a healing spell gets it they can just heal themselves and always net more HP than they lose

Papayaman1000

20:48

I'll just take a sack of Pearls of Wondrous Power, thanks.

Yuuki

That way, you'd actually not want it to activate when casting low-level spells.

SevenSidedDie

@JoshuaAslanSmith Salut. I see you got your questionnaire up! It's a beast of a thing to write, isn't it?

godskook

Well, that still doesn't solve the fundmental problem I'm pointing at...

Yuuki

@Papayaman1000 I mean, it's a cursed item. The point is that you'd rather have something else.

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki In response to @godskook

Adam

20:49

@Yuuki 5esrd.com/gamemastering/traps/#Trap_Effects You could use the damage severity by level for traps to determine a compromise

godskook

@Papayaman1000, pearls aren't infinite, and aren't as cheap as wand-healing. This item is just better than that in 3.5

On top of cooler roleplay.

Adam

Full casters all get their spell slots at the same level, so you can use that value on the chart to determine how much damage to use

Papayaman1000

@godskook Okay you've got me there

Adam

For example, all full casters get 2nd level spells at 3rd level, and a setback for a 3rd level character is 1d10, so a 2nd level spell could do 1d10 damage

diego

@Yuuki The other thing you could do is have it do ability score damage instead of HP damage.

SevenSidedDie

20:51

@Yuuki Does it take up an attunement slot?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@SevenSidedDie yes I feel like it was harder this time then during the 2015 election

I think in part because so many of the questions had community to mod team relationships stuff

so I felt I needed to go in depth

I also spend like 2-3 hours staring at quesitons and not writing answers because Im rusty

and then I was like, thats not how you write, you write and the revise just put it on the digital page

and tha got me moving

godskook

@Yuuki, the problem here is that you're trading a super-rare resource(spell slots) for not-as-rare resources(HP). That tradeoff will always be valuable enough to do some fun shenanigans with in 3.5.

Adam

@diego Ability score damage is brutal. It can quickly cause you to spiral into uselessness. Not to say that it can't be done well. I would just be a bit concerned about them failing multiple saves and really start to suck at everything

godskook

In 5e, it depends on how many of 3.5's spells they kept.

Yuuki

@godskook Hmm... maybe instead of making the spell cost no spell slot, it could increase the save DC?

godskook

20:54

Why do you want this thing to give a -benefit-?

diego

@Adam Yeah, you'd have to be careful with it. If it were changed I would probably wouldn't have it scale with level as much (maybe 1/3 level round down, minimum 1). It largely depends on how dangerous this is supposed to be

Yuuki

Because I like the idea of a monkey's paw.

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki Or at least make it do [slot level]d4(or even up to d12) damage instead of just [slot level] damage

Because any self-respecting wizard would gladly take 3 damage for a 3rd-level Magic Missile.

Adam

@Papayaman1000 3 damage for a fireball, so good

Yuuki

@Papayaman1000 3d6 damage though?

diego

20:57

@Papayaman1000 I would say at least a d10/level so a healer with this can't heal themselves to full for free

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki If you're desperate, yes.

@diego So yeah d12

Yuuki

Well, I'd probably avoid giving this to a healer.

Papayaman1000

And how would it work with Cantrips? 0 damage for infini-- wait.

godskook

@Yuuki, for it to be in the Monkey's Paw genre, the benefit has to be worth less than the cost.

diego

@Papayaman1000 Or something like Xd8 + [spellcasting modifier]

godskook

20:58

As originally written, you were aiming for -bloodmagic-

Yuuki

@godskook Which is what I'm trying to figure out.

Clearly, I lowballed it by a lot.

Papayaman1000

@diego Or the proficiency bonus or something

Adam

@Yuuki Also, do you want your players to hope to fail the save, or hope to pass it? Because currently, I want to fail that save really bad.

diego

@Papayaman1000 That could also work. I was just having it be an inverse Cure Wounds

Yuuki

56 secs ago, by Yuuki

Clearly, I lowballed it by a lot.

Adam

20:59

Yes, but that doesn't answer the question

do you want them to hope to fail it, or hope to pass it?

Yuuki

At best, I want it to be situational.

Like maybe they initially want to fail the save but then "oh shoot, I seriously messed up".

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki DC 13 + Caster Level

Yuuki

Followed by "dammit, I can't get rid of this thing".

godskook

Ok, here's my suggestion then.

Make the damage its own damage type.

That only heals 1 HP per day.

That alone would make this a VERY risky item to use.

Or maybe it heals HD/2 per day.

w/e

DForck42

@doppelgreener I appreciate the time you took to write up that discussion post on meta. I haven't been here to experience the shift in tone, but I had gathered that there was still a lot of back pressure that had built up

doppelgreener

21:05

@DForck42 there was a looooot of back pressure.

3

Adam

@DForck42 same. I've been here a little less than a year and I've had no problems myself

Joshua Aslan Smith

@doppelgreener yeah haha understatement

@Adam most of it happened over a year ago

doppelgreener

Speaking of which. Do people feel it would be better off as a question or an answer? I'm still on the fence. There's good reasons for it to be either.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I think it works as the answer to the original question

DForck42

@doppelgreener I think the post is better off as it is

it's an entire discussion across the site that needs to happen

doppelgreener

21:07

An answer doesn't create expectation for response, but a question allows for detailed response should someone wish...

Joshua Aslan Smith

I dont know if the standalone question is helpful if its just remaining there, vs seeking input or looking for response

Yuuki

Can you roll to resist a healing spell if you're unwilling?

DForck42

@Yuuki why would you be unwilling?

Yuuki

> The first rule of being interrogated is that you are the only irreplaceable person in the torture chamber. The room is yours, so work it. If they’re going to threaten you with death, show them who’s boss. Die faster!

Adam

@Yuuki I dont think anything let's you resist healing or the like. There is no clause for being "willing" like in some other spells

undergroundmonorail

21:12

If I'm a Sorcerer or Wizard in D&D5e who somehow managed to wind up with 1 CON, then (con modifier * -1) > average roll on my hit die rounded up. If I take the average roll rather than leaving it up to chance, I lose a hit point at every level, which is particularly disastrous because at level 1 my max HP is 1. Is this correct or is there some rule that says your max HP is always at least 1, or that it can never go down on a level up, or something?

Yuuki

But among other reasons, I want to know if it's possible to resist Greater Restoration.

DForck42

@Yuuki lol, what's that from?

Yuuki

@DForck42 Doctor Who.

Joshua Aslan Smith

flip it to real life, if a doctor injects drugs can you willfully resis

probably not

DForck42

@Yuuki ahh

Yuuki

21:13

@JoshuaAslanSmith I mean, you can try and make it a lot harder for them to inject you.

DForck42

@Yuuki RAW, no

Yuuki

Possibly missing veins/arteries and whatnot.

DForck42

unless you keep them from touching you (it's a touch spell, right?)

Yuuki

You might even end up breaking the needle in your own skin as you flail about. Maybe. I don't know the structural integrity of syringes.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Yuuki right but once the medicine has hit you its donezo

do healing spells have to-hit rolls?

no

Yuuki

21:14

@JoshuaAslanSmith Well clearly you failed your save.

Or... made it?

I 'unno.

Joshua Aslan Smith

heh

undergroundmonorail

@undergroundmonorail Should I ask this on the site? I've done some searching on my own and couldn't find the answer, but I don't know how this community feels about questions that, if someone does know the answer, can be solved in one sentence and a quote from a rulebook.

Joshua Aslan Smith

thats what I mean I really think the way healing is modeled via spells it just happens essentially magical nanites fix you up

@undergroundmonorail that sounds like a fine question

undergroundmonorail

@JoshuaAslanSmith Cool, thanks :)

Yuuki

I guess I just have to add some mechanic for resisting Greater Restoration into the item itself.

Adam

21:16

@undergroundmonorail I would upvote it

@Yuuki Why does it need to resist Greater Restoration?

Yuuki

@Adam I'm wondering that myself. Having to burn a 5th-level spell slot might be enough of a cost.

DForck42

@undergroundmonorail it's an interesting question that's not immediately inherent

Yuuki

But my thinking was that the HP reduction mechanic of the bloodstone could be reversed with Greater Restoration. But then again, that's a 5th-level spell slot and you still have the cursed item.

Adam

@Yuuki Keep in mind as well that remove curse and greater restoration can both break curses.

undergroundmonorail

I typed "Is there a minimum maximum HP?" into the title field, but now that I'm looking at it again, maybe I could choose something clearer...

Adam

21:20

@undergroundmonorail "Is there a floor for maximum HP?"

undergroundmonorail

Oh, that's good, ty

Yuuki

@Adam Ugh, I was looking forward to crafting a subplot around this item but now that I remember Remove Curse...

DForck42

@Yuuki kinda wish remove curse was more like dispel magic

where curses have levels and you have to expend a higher spell slot of ENSURE the curse is removed

Adam

@DForck42 I concur

DForck42

would allow curses to be important throughout the game

instead of being a huge deal early on, and no big deal later on

Adam

21:33

Nothing really stops you from implementing that kind of system. Wouldn't even be too hard

Yuuki

> Bloodstone - wondrous item, cursed
> When casting a spell, roll a Constitution save. On failure, the spell does not consume spell slots, but your maximum hit points are reduced by a number equivalent to your character level. You recover from this damage at a rate of 1 hit point per rest. If discarded, the bloodstone returns to your possession after 1d4 days and you take 1d6 necrotic damage for each day it has been out of your possession.

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki That sounds a bit more dangerous.

Goooood.

Adam

Certainly something that quickly becomes more and more risky

DForck42

@Adam if ya gonna do it though, might wanna make curses pretty prevalent in the world

doing it for just one cursed item feels... cumbersome and unnecessary

Yuuki

Side note, I'm thinking about this item as part of a plot hook to discover that the setting is in the beginning stages of an extra-planar invasion. The bloodstones are passed out by their crafters (often to people in powerful places) as a method of corrupting the individuals in possession of them, leaving them vulnerable either to elimination or "conversion".

DForck42

21:37

@Yuuki I really like the effect

Yuuki

Like, the adventurers will kill a powerful necromancer only to discover this item in his/her possession.

DForck42

@Yuuki by rest, do you mean short rest, long rest, or either?

Yuuki

@DForck42 I'm thinking either.

Since you take <character level> in max HP reduction and 1/rest is pretty slow recovery as it is.

DForck42

@Yuuki k. usually the book specifies short or long rest in these circumstances, so I would word it as such

to prevent arbitrary abuse, you might put a cap on the number of hp that can be regained per day

Yuuki

What would be the DC for a very difficult check? Like very secret knowledge known only to very few people?

DForck42

21:40

@Yuuki 20 - 30

I think

i think 35 is considered almost impossible

Yuuki

> Bloodstones are magical items crafted by a secretive race of dark creatures known only as dreadlords, DC20 Intelligence (Arcana). While powerful spellcasters in their own right, dreadlords prefer to plot in the shadows and topple empires with carefully crafted rumors and manipulations, occasionally tempting rulers with offers of corrupting power or bargains.
> Each bloodstone is attuned to the dreadlord that crafted it, granting it power over the creature that possesses it. Only by killing the dreadlord can the possessor of a bloodstone be freed from the bloodstone's binding curse.

Alternately, anointing the bloodstone with the ichor of the dreadlord that created it (so they don't have to kill something that I've flavored as a really strong spellcaster).

DForck42

@Yuuki neato

@Yuuki sooo.... question. the affect happens when a spell slot is used. what happens if a non-magic user ends up with the bloodstone? say, a fighter

Yuuki

@DForck42 Well, my first thought is that this is something tuned to give/use on spellcasters.

But maybe I can figure something out for fighters.

Papayaman1000

@Yuuki Maybe a character attunes whenever they cast a spell? Maybe something with things like wands and other magic items?

Yuuki

Maybe whenever a physical check is made (attack roll, STR/DEX/CON check or save), there's a chance that it drains health to give a bonus to the check?

DForck42

21:47

cause in a LOT of dnd games, city leaders tend to be normal people. those that don't have special abilities

BESW

@MadMAxJr If I've ever contributed to that, I'm sorry. My intent is to express discontent with my personal experience with the system, not to say that others shouldn't be able to find enjoyment in it themselves.

godskook

@Yuuki, I see you went with my suggestion.

DForck42

@Yuuki hmm... problem is that fighters swing WAY more often than casters spend spell slots

undergroundmonorail

I posted the question

godskook

Also, damn, people really liked my my answer to that improv question.

Yuuki

21:50

@DForck42 They also tend to have more HP than casters (but they also get hit more). Although I could definitely see reducing the HP penalty they get.

Papayaman1000

@godskook It was very good, esp. for someone with barely 50 rep to their name at the time of posting.

undergroundmonorail

@godskook i hadn't seen it, but i went to your profile to find it just out of curiosity, and i'm not at all surprised. i read like four paragraphs of dialogue and now i want you to dm for me because i'm interested in your world :P

godskook

Oh gawd, I couldn't keep track of all that shit for an entire world.

undergroundmonorail

haha, at least you're honest

godskook

@Papayaman1000, my reputation is misleading, I'm an old-timer transferring from other communities, not a "new to roleplay" person.

Papayaman1000

21:54

@godskook I never said you were new to RPGs, I'm just saying that when a person sees a low-rep user with such a great answer, it catches them by suprise.

godskook

Fair enough.

BESW

@godskook Folks here know that's usually the case, but generally expect a steeper learning curve in applying experience in other communities to the RPG.SE Q&A format.

godskook

For reference, here's the setting dump I gave to the two players I'm currently recruiting for my summer arc:

Most of the world is at various levels of low-fantasy. Monsters exist
in the dark places, but most peoples are still primarily fighting
bickering battles over territory with other humanoids. Orcs, Humans,
Goblins, Kobolds, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, and other various humanoids
just trying to eek out existences. In most of these places, as a PC
originating from there, you'll be an extraordinary person.

BESW

Anecdotally, it's harder for people from other RPG forums to get the swing of RPG.SE than it is for users who weren't already comfortable in other online RPG communities.

Papayaman1000

@godskook BTW, try to keep from swearing in chat. I've gotten tempbanned from less with BESW around.

undergroundmonorail

21:56

@godskook yooooo

BESW

@Papayaman1000 [amused] That had nothing to do with me.

Papayaman1000

@BESW Man, I just got booted the other day...

BESW

@Papayaman1000 I know. Anybody in the chat can flag a message, and it's reviewed by all users active in all Stack Exchange chats with more than 10k cumulative rep.

I just messaged you with a note about why it probably happened.

godskook

Ok, that's.....concerning.

BESW

We try to keep this chat squeaky-clean so that it's more possible to talk about fraught topics.

godskook

21:59

Like...I wouldn't expect untargeted low-grade swear words to be a problem.

Papayaman1000

@BESW I am curious about who this almighty arbiter[s?] is, but whatever, not like I was removed from a rather active conversation at the time or anything... grr...

Transcript for