TRPG General Chat

godskook

14:00

Yes, if you need ~+7, 2d6 is better than 1d12

But do you get to pick dice in arbitrary group sizes?

eimyr

no, you would have traits with specific dice attached to them - if you made them narratively relevant, you'd roll and add/subtract them from the total

Yuuki

@doppelgreener I would love to get something like the Alien Sword of Taverns rather than just "oh, a +1 keen scimitar. that's totally what i need to make this build overpowered". I mean, all I'm going to do with that scimitar is hit things.

But with the Alien Sword of Taverns, I can go pub crawling with the voice in my head!

doppelgreener

@Yuuki I'm totally sure the "alien intelligence" inside is super drunk all the time and that's the only reason for its insane mutterings.

godskook

Well, what I'm saying is this. If the choice is +1d6 or +1d12 and I need ~+10, the 1d12 is the better choice.

eimyr

Yes.

but it's also worse than 4d4

doppelgreener

14:02

@godskook Also, if you need +10, 1d12 is better than 2d6.

@eimyr I think this is what godskook is getting at: you're mixing variables; you just pulled out a value that definitionally can also get higher results.

That's what is making it better, not that it's smaller dice or more of them.

godskook

That's....not as clear to me, but I'm not in position to do the statistics on it.

eimyr

OK, so if you're a weak wizard using violence, you want to back it up with beefy d10 traits.

godskook

But this does expose another question of something I'm not aware of: Can traits have more htan 1 die?

doppelgreener

In different circumstances, different dice sizes and different bell curves are going to be advantageous. When you just need a big number, any big dice or group of dice is going to do fine, and one big die is going to do better than a dice pool with an upper bound of the same value (because that dice pool will almost never give you the upper bound, but the big die has a good chance of giving you it).

godskook

Like....a fighter using "violence" has +2d6 for being "trained"?

eimyr

14:05

if you're a barbarian and just trying to stay within your optimal zone, you would prefer multiple smaller dice

doppelgreener

If you need a small number or you're very close to the sweet spot, a dice pool with a bell curve that peaks around the number you need is always going to be desirable.

eimyr

@godskook I think you'd need to go to the beginning of the conversation, where we established those things.

doppelgreener

So I agree "small dice are better than big dice" is not consistently true.

Nor is "dice pools are better than one big die".

eimyr

@godskook I'd imagine a Soldier using Violence would start right around the success zone and try to stay there. The same Soldier using Magic would start waaay into failure zone and have to catch up. Meanwhile, his Wizard enemy using Magic would probably start in the "overkill" zone and try to limit himself

Yuuki

@doppelgreener It is a scientific fact that dice pools are better than one big die. Proof: you get to roll a bunch of dice.

Thyzer

14:08

@doppelgreener My meta question is not only specifically for that one question. I saw multiple times questions marked as duplicates where I found that while some answers might be applicable the majority/the top answer were not, because a DM receives other answers than a PC. A PC almost always has a special case in his question and sometimes those are not reflected in an general answer for a DM

godskook

@eimyr, this chat is a very long place. Is it really more convenient for me to go searching than for you to figure out if its a yes/no?

Thyzer

7sideddie edited my "request for a 'this answer of this question helps you' feature". Where you could specificaly link to a helping answer and not to the most-voted one

eimyr

4 mins ago, by eimyr

@godskook I'd imagine a Soldier using Violence would start right around the success zone and try to stay there. The same Soldier using Magic would start waaay into failure zone and have to catch up. Meanwhile, his Wizard enemy using Magic would probably start in the "overkill" zone and try to limit himself

does that not answer your question?

Anne Aunyme

@eimyr Do you know about Time&Temp?

godskook

Not in the slightest

eimyr

14:12

then I don't understand your question, I'm afraid

Anne Aunyme

it's a parodic RPG, but it has a system that looks a bit like what you are describing

eimyr

@AnneAunyme nope! Tell me about it, please!

Anne Aunyme

basically when rolling you roll 3 dice

and then you choose one of them

doppelgreener

@Yuuki Well you got me there.

Anne Aunyme

if you choose the bigger result, it's a success

godskook

14:13

Ok, so there are traits, that give different dice you can bid with.

Anne Aunyme

if you choose the smaller one, it's a failure, and there is a complication

godskook

Can a trait exist that gives a 2d6 instead of a d8?

Such that when you bid that trait, you add the full 2d6?

Anne Aunyme

if you choose the middle one, you get either the failure or the complication

And then you have to note the number in a grid

there are rules for how you can write your numbers, but basically at the end if you always take the success you are stuck

and when you are stuck the space-time continuum explodes, or something like that

you can also achieve special figures with the numbers on the grid, to trigger special effects, so sometimes you want to roll for random stuff just to get a missing number on the right case

nitsua60

@eimyr You should know @Anne's leaving out the best part of Time&Temps: the conceit. Time travel is possible, but the more-important a person it is who travels, the more likely to create paradoxes. So you, the character, work for a company that employs complete yorbles to travel through time and do really big/important things.

eimyr

@nitsua60 OMG, that's amazing

doppelgreener

14:19

@Thyzer Just saw your comments - I've responded.

Anne Aunyme

our DM never actually explained why we were employed for these missions, so I didn't knew about the "the more you travel, the more you create paradoxes" stuff

nitsua60

17

A: Identify this time-traveling RPG

Is it Time & Temp (2009)? Most time-travel RPGs are more-or-less serious takes on the idea, with the PCs being heroes or daring Time Agents and similar, but Time & Temp PCs are definitely under-appreciated and sub-heroic: Employed by Marigold Staffing and working at Browne Chronometric Engine...

Thyzer

@doppelgreener currently editing my question to more fit this question in perticular and open another feature-request question after that.

doppelgreener

@Thyzer ok, cool.

nitsua60

@AnneAunyme I don't remember it as being the more you travel, but rather if you send Joe Schmoe back they go largely unnoticed by the Universe and they might be able to achieve big changes. But if you send Tom Brady back, well everyone's going to notice and it causes all sortsa problems. (But I only played it once, many years ago.)

Anne Aunyme

14:28

well, for our scenario they sent a bunch of noobies and it resulted in Hitler being killed by a car jumping from some kind of ramp while his velociraptor pet was making weird noises, powerless. Since then there is cactus everywhere.

Thyzer

9

Q: This question about a problem from a player's perspective is not answered by the linked duplicate question from a DM's perspective

Can you make a single roll multiple times? was marked as duplicate and at first "I failed to open a lock. Now what?" was the only linked 'duplicate' question. Taking a look at its answers I found that most of them, while still talking about the same issue, would not be helpful for the questioner...

eimyr

@godskook There isn't any rule about that yet. I'd say it's perfectly happy to allow that, but I'm mindful about giving the players too much control. So at the moment it's "yes, but I'll need a reason not to remove it"

doppelgreener

@Thyzer Looks great. Thanks for working with me on that.

@Yuuki Me too! Flavorful magic is awesome compared to just bigger numbers. This stuff's even giving me ideas for stuff entirely unrelated to D&D.

godskook

Well, I'm just trying to get a feel for your system.

nitsua60

@AnneAunyme Perhaps you've heard of the International Association of Time Travelers Subforum: Europe - 20th Century - World War II

godskook

14:39

So.....my Soldier makes an attack, I got a +16 on a 21 target. I bid Trained, +2d6. DM bids Overconfident, +1d10, I bid Humble, -1d12, he bids Risky, +1d4.

That sound about right?

Joshua Aslan Smith

morning

nitsua60

@JoshuaAslanSmith Mid of the morn' to ya!

eimyr

@godskook Just about. Only you roll after every bid (or maybe not? not sure) and I haven't figured out when exactly the process ends

Joshua Aslan Smith

@nitsua60 yeah its 10:45 am my time

nitsua60

@JoshuaAslanSmith Ditto.

Thyzer

14:49

Am I the only one who thinks it is weird that you can link questions marked as [duplicate] as [duplicate]? When it is more fitting than another not-duplicate question it implies that it is not a real duplicate.

Joshua Aslan Smith

heh

ACuriousMind

@Thyzer You're not

nitsua60

@Thyzer So I did that recently, and it did strike me as strange. The only mitigating thought I had was that there's some question, when the newest post comes in, of which in the group really has "primacy." Which can be resolved at one's leisure, doesn't need to be perfect in the first instance.

Thyzer

I think it should automatically open a "reopen vote", it that gets accepted it's fine, if it gets declined the linked duplicates parent-duplicate (I am not a native speaker and I have no idea how I can tell you what I mean) should be linked... as the duplicate... (such a messy sentence)

A is a dupe of B, which is a dupe of C ... community checks whether B is realy a dupe of C, if yes, then A is dupe of C

ACuriousMind

They did recently add the ability for moderators and gold badge holders to edit the list of duplicates to address that and list all the duplicate question in the banner at the top instead of just one

Thyzer

14:58

Wait, I have a golden badge... how can I do that?

ACuriousMind

You need a gold badge in a tag that's applied to the question

I.e. if you can dupehammer the question (close as duplicate with only your vote), you can also edit the list of duplicates

Thyzer

ah, not any golden badge

ACuriousMind

Yeah, you wouldn't want to grant privileges to people just for upvoting 600 posts (electorate badge)

Or just visiting the site 100 times in a row (fanatic badge), for that matter

Thyzer

@ACuriousMind thats the one i have ;)

MadMAxJr

Five... Great question and 4x Famous question

Adam

15:13

@ACuriousMind I always end up forgetting to hop on over the weekend and that always messes me up on that one

Thyzer

my account is like 10 months old and I was only missing about 14 days

Having the app on daily bus rides helps :P

MadMAxJr

Most parties would be thrilled to find a crystal ball. My party seems to want a crystal ball with 4G LTE and Wikipedia access.

doppelgreener

15:35

I've just made a meta post that is the culmination of days of work, whoof.

nitsua60

@Thyzer I had a streak of over 580 days visited going, then missed checking in one day of a trip to England. I blame @doppelgreener, who I'm sure somehow sabotaged it =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 [shifty eyes]

NautArch

@Thyzer I was working on a response to your meta question - but is it better to discuss in here?

nitsua60

@SevenSidedDie on the city-improv question, do you think it's worth asking OP to provide some description of the trouble they've had and the skills they feel sure of? (I mention it to you, 'cause I'm trying to back out of the comment-work and avoid help-piling =)

SevenSidedDie

@nitsua60 Honestly I think the question on its face is already describing the problem. Maybe not everyone experiences it, and that means people are looking for a deeper issue that isn't there? I've been there — coming up “boring” instead of blank for what to put in front of PCs on a city street — so it doesn't seem like an odd or incomplete question to me.

nitsua60

15:50

In any case, it should be interesting. We could get some amazing 100-vote-worthy answers, and we could also get a long tail of... not.

Thyzer

@NautArch I am away for a few hours, so if you want to wait until then...

NautArch

16:08

@Thyzer i'm cool with waiting. I don't think it's a rush and it's an interesting issue.

@SevenSidedDie The city-improv does need to get narrowed down. I think it falls into the duplicate issue/reroll question a bit, but a lot of the answers are going to depend on what the OP actually is trying to do.

RIght now, it feels like a 'help me build my world"question

and honestly, it's got some related value to the rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/98534/… question

MadMAxJr

16:28

@doppelgreener Good god. If this were any longer it'd need to open with 'Thousands of years ago' and a fog machine at your feet.

It does cover a lot of the last few years of site history and tension points.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr Well that's not to say it can't...

Thousands of years ago... [billowing, mysterious fog and the whir of fog machines]

MadMAxJr

"Mods have done things people don't like." "In many ways, the mods have acted because the community made them this way."

"We are all responsible for this site, not just the mods. Neither side has been fully positive toward making this a good site"

That's the summary gist I get from your post.

Also reading your posts as Space Ghost really isn't helping me.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr Just going to ping @BESW so he can read that himself. I'm not sure what gist would've come out of the post without him poking at it to get it clearly expressing that.

(It took us a long time to get everything pointing in a helpful direction.)

MadMAxJr

You cite a hell of a lot of specific instances.

Yuuki

@MadMAxJr Space Ghost? He doesn't look anything like Space Ghost! That's clearly Spice Ghost.

godskook

16:34

Well, I threw an answer on that improv question, if you guys wanna roast another of my answers.

MadMAxJr

I won't say our diamonds have done everything right, but I know they're not acting out of spite. Though a few of the listed cases, problematic users clearly got under their skin, which colored the tone of discussions after the point of debate.

Adam

TFS - For Thousands Of Years I Laid Dormant

►

The Oracle

0

Q: When a linked duplicate question has dozens of answers we should be able to link to a specific one

When we mark a question as a duplicate and they are only 75% similar, there is a chance that the answers to the linked questions are not always applicable and thus useless for the questioner. Especially when there are 15 answers each about 300-500 words and all but one are too general/specific ...

feature-request closed-questions duplicates

0

Q: What stops users from putting their locations in their profiles?

An interesting aspect of the site (to me anyway—you might find my threshold for interesting a little low) is that viewers of a user's profile can learn where the user is… if the user fills out his or her profile's Location field. Yet many users leave their profile's Location field empty. I like...

discussion profile-page

doppelgreener

@godskook 🔥🔥🍖🔥🔥🚒

MadMAxJr

When I come by here I usually just want to ask a Pathfinder question due to a situation at my table and I'm interested in a RAW if possible, because I usually side with designers intent when it can be found. The act of asking for RAW seeking answers appears to suddenly cause orks in my realm to start sniffing the breeze, turn towards me, don their war paint, raise their axes, then politely knock on my door and ask me to stop that nonsense.

The fact I host and play Pathfinder has also caused many upsets and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.

Which points at one of the big site factors. People have very different play environments and play expectations. This isn't always apparent when someone comes here with a question.

Yuuki

16:38

Wait, people comment on your system of choice on your questions?

MadMAxJr

I've been bashed in chat over the years for mentioning d20 or Pathfinder.

I just brush it off, because I've been hearing that kind of stuff since 3.0

Yuuki

Chat is one thing, but questions on the site is another.

That's like me going into a no-mans-sky question and complaining about Sean Murray. It provides nothing of substance.

MadMAxJr

Questions on the site, I got vote bombed for trying to say a particular game was an indie game, but that was ages ago and I just don't care.

Anyway. At the end of the day, I am usually just looking for a way to move past a sketchy rules situation my table came up with. The act of asking seems to challenge others, due to preference or experience, in a manner displeasing to them. This isn't to say that all I see is conflict here, it's just that it happens, it isn't going away.

doppelgreener

Whoa, all of that sounds pretty bad.

We recently arrived at some new policies around RAW, have you noticed any improvement recently?

Erik

That's one hell of a post, @doppelgreener

3

doppelgreener

16:47

The idea was basically: when someone's asking a question and it's tagged RAW, it should be clear in the post itself that they're asking for RAW; if it's not clear, ask them if RAW is really what they're going for and if they are, ask them to make that clear in the text.

@Erik It is, isn't it. There were nights I couldn't get some sleep because my mind was abuzz with writing it, and @BESW put considerable energy into helping me revise it.

MadMAxJr

To be fair, my actual q/a activity here is once every few months. My regular activity is sweeping the review queues.

I do expect you to solve at least one problem with energy beams though.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr So you're the reason I haven't gotten the marshall badge yet!! Hahahaha

[MIGHTY FIST SHAKE]

(I'm actually okay not having that badge. It's fine.)

MadMAxJr

I've been with this site for seven years. I don't have a super high rep. I mostly keep to myself and stay out of the debate because I honestly just don't care that much to haggle over the finer points. I just need to be able to ask, "What happens if a PF alchemist fires an explosive arrow and it misses? Does it scatter?"

Meanwhile I scratch my head and see bitter, angry posts over seemingly small points. (That and some users who just seem to want to argue on the internet at length.)

So I guess I just want to say, please don't let this site turn into a dumpster fire. It's not perfect, but I need this so I don't have to wade into stuff like the Paizo forums.

Because the idea here is you ask a question and you get an answer. Paizo forums? Ask a question, get a debate.

LegendaryDude

@MadMAxJr Have you... used the internet?

MadMAxJr

And if this site helps me figure out how the hell to GM Fate at some point in the future, that'd be great too.

LegendaryDude

16:53

;P

MadMAxJr

Oh I have.

It's just that it's gotten to the point here in some cases, you'd think someone would be ready to stab another guy over something like 'We'd like to stop using Oxford commas on the site'

Erik

I'm sure there's people willing to play Fate with you in a chat-room, so we've got that covered too.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener [clap clap clap] Now where's that blasted meta-bounty feature request I keep making?

MadMAxJr

Oh there's a lot of Fate supporters here, I just haven't had the time and was hoping to find something half decent on youtube that covers the char-gen aspect where you pass stuff around twice.

NautArch

@MadMAxJr Don't mess with my Oxford comma.

Erik

16:55

Yeah, I've gone through the same "first time FATE" thing last year and it's pretty hard to find good material.

In the end I just had to dive in and do it, but it was pretty awesome so I wasn't disappointed

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr I've never actually done that myself. In Masters of Umdaar stuff like that is covered by having "shared" aspects where people just mention something about their relationship to another player character.

LegendaryDude

@MadMAxJr I've seen (I think we all have?) arguments stem from correcting UK/Canadian English spellings. There is a lot of, dare I say, pedantry (and I'm not innocent of that either).

doppelgreener

(Masters of Umdaar is tons of fun, and free, and I highly recommend it as an introduction to Fate.)

nitsua60

I'd stab over that one.</true confessions>
=)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Just send @BESW and I half your salary (each, of course) in the mail, that should be enough.

(That's reasonable, right? Right.)

MadMAxJr

16:56

@LegendaryDude <Sarcasm> Well that's easy. There's Color and then there's colour, used by communists! </Sarcasm>

LegendaryDude

I think you mean coummunists.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr 'scuse me, Australians are socialists.

MadMAxJr

Half blood communists!

Except the Tasmanians, they're alright people.

NautArch

I thought Australians were criminals?

LegendaryDude

Those in favor of the Oxford comma: commanists.

nitsua60

16:57

@doppelgreener You might get a better deal if you let me buy you a pint next time I'm in London. (It'll be possibly late summer, almost-certainly next Feb.)

LegendaryDude

(I self-identify as one)

MadMAxJr

To further refine my point, I'd like to see us de-escalate tensions of citizens vs. moderators and go back to working on making the site better. Meta discussions on things you don't like are fine, but if you can't back up your idea with support from others, it's probably not going to happen.

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 Sounds great. Do you drink coffee? Can I buy you a cup at my favorite coffee shop next time you're here?

nitsua60

Actually, I don't drink alcohol or caffeine =\
So I basically use the terms "buy you a beer" or "let's grab coffee" as euphemisms =)

doppelgreener

Oh no!

Erik

17:00

Because "we'll drink a glass of water" just doesn't sound as much fun, I guess? :P

doppelgreener

You'd have trouble in Australia. Half the culture loves beer, half the culture loves coffee, and half the culture loves both.

nitsua60

Cocaine, though. That gets me going in the morning. =D

doppelgreener

(If you add these together to get 150% you wouldn't be wrong.)

NautArch

looks like I picked the wrong day to quit cocaine.

doppelgreener

@NautArch Only according to New Zealanders.

nitsua60

17:01

Much better answer than mine; I would nitpick that the DMG's magic item section is 92 out of 320 pages, much less than "half". In fact, you have three halves in there ;-) — Mark Cogan Feb 14 '16 at 16:54

Erik

I think that around the world, most people drink coffee, alcohol, or both. I get funny looks every time I mention I'm a programmer who doesn't drink coffee.

LegendaryDude

@doppelgreener You don't have to come to 150% for it to be mathematically correct. :)

Erik

And another one when I mention I won't drink alcohol with them either

doppelgreener

@LegendaryDude It's on my mind you could also just total those to 50%.

LegendaryDude

@Erik I'm the guy in my office who is rarely seen without coffee mug in hand.

Erik

17:03

In my office, that describes most people.

doppelgreener

@Erik My only concern is it makes it tough to find an excuse to invite someone who doesn't drink alcohol or coffee to places to have a relaxing conversation. I think it's important to have a backup plan of something to order for those situations.

LegendaryDude

I would guess I spend about 10% of my day going to the coffee machine.

doppelgreener

Lots of important meetings and bondings in Australia happen over coffee.

Erik

Yeah. I tend to get comments about being an a-social shut-in from time to time, so I get the problems with it.

NautArch

@doppelgreener From 30-37, I didn't drink coffee or alcohol.

Erik

17:04

(Although I'd still be one if I drank coffee)

nitsua60

@doppelgreener Cookies and milk. But it's pretty strange to ask an adult if they want to grab milk and cookies.

response: "should I bring my blankie?"

counter-response: "you be you, man."

doppelgreener

Hahaha

MadMAxJr

I can't question the Tasmanians of Australia. They make a kind of cheese branded as 'Tasty Cheese' and 'Extra Tasty Cheese'

I'm curious what the difference is, but I've only seen it in the import section once.

Papayaman1000

Wow, props to @godskook for such a good answer to that improv question. You've got talent.

LegendaryDude

@MadMAxJr Pretty sure it's just cheddar.

doppelgreener

17:11

@MadMAxJr It's an indicator of the strength of flavour of cheddar cheese.

And to their credit it is pretty tasty.

MadMAxJr

So extra tasty is between tasty and sharp. Okay

The first time I saw it, I assumed it was like 'The correct cheddar' and 'The even more correct cheddar'

godskook

Ty.

I ruin it by thinking too much in my own game.

LegendaryDude

@MadMAxJr That award would go to Cabot Creamery. They make the best cheddar, dare I say, in the world.

godskook

Although admittedly, I freaked my last DM out when my Sorcadin casually mentioned he was sleeping with random clerics in an otherwise unrelated conversation.

Eyes damn near dropped out of the poor fellow's head.

doppelgreener

@MadMAxJr There are many people who would not find that interpretation to be incorrect.

MadMAxJr

17:23

My perceptions of things are often incorrect to others, that's fine.

Papayaman1000

@godskook You have the wrong sort of DM then. You seem like you'd fit in with my players. Take that however you will, especially if you're familiar with them.

[Not on a personal level, of course; rather, of what some frequenters of this room may have heard.]

godskook

That DM is young. Not even 21 yet. Definitely not the sort to have sex figured out yet, and he hasn't figured out D&D beyond the basic tropes. He rolled with it just fine, including a decision that my Sorcadin was too promiscuous for me to say if I had a kid or not. Just was an hilarious reaction.

DForck42

18:10

boop

@godskook people figure out sex?

godskook

Yes.

A_S00

@godskook but it is sadly as vulnerable to Dunning-Kruger'ing as any other form of expertise >.<

godskook

Although there's generally two types of people who do. Those who earn it and those it comes naturally to. The latter group is generally a bad source on how to replicate success, as even they don't know how they're doing it.

@A_S00, I find that Dunning-Kruger is compensatable for, once you learn what it is and what kinds of things might cause it.

godskook

18:31

Not to imply that its EASY

Joshua Aslan Smith

18:52

My answers to the rpg moderator questionnaire are up.

0

A: 2017 Moderator Election Q&A - Questionnaire

Joshua Aslan Smith - Moderation Nomination In terms of working relationship, the current moderation team has a good level of alignment — and a lack of diversity. In what ways do you see your skills and philosophy complementing the skills and philosophy of the existing (and future) moderat...

godskook

And...got another answer up for people to roast.

NautArch

we got a huge loot pile at the end of our last session and one of hte players is being super greedy. Not the character, the player. that's fun!

Yuuki

@godskook "Tiny thing goes in, tiny thing comes out. You can't explain that!" - Bill O'Reilly

Joshua Aslan Smith

@NautArch ugh the worst

rando loot?

NautArch

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah. we have a custom world, custom story, but the DM does random loot. Because that makes sense.

so we get stuff none of us can use, and there are no local places to trade/sell/buy

Joshua Aslan Smith

19:00

I think I either prefer 4e style, go to the magical costco and buy what you want or solely being given out by DM Fiat, but the DM is picking items for players that are synergistic and everyone feels special

@NautArch random loot never makes sense to me especially if there is nowhere to deal with the items

even at 50%

NautArch

we can/have gone to the city of brass (magical costco), but we've had some...issues...there. But we're also on a timeline, so my character often doesn't shop or doesn't want to go because it risks our goals.

Yuuki

@NautArch But that's how you get Glamdring and Orcrist in a random troll hoard when Glamdring was last used by Turgon in the First Age at the fall of Gondolin.

Does it make sense for a legendary blade wielded by an ancient elven king to show up 6,000 years later in some random stinky hole in the ground? No, but that's how you defeat a Balrog that shows up in a later campaign.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Yuuki eh thats more my thing of the DM planting relevant loot for specific players

LegendaryDude

IMO, there should be a mix of random crap and useful stuff. The random crap should never be Holy Avenger awesome unless there is actually someone who can use a Holy Avenger.

That way you still feel like the world exists without the PCs

And the PCs don't feel like they don't matter and don't get fun cool stuff to play with

Joshua Aslan Smith

I feel like rando crap magic items should not be wearables but consumables

potions, bombs, etc.

LegendaryDude

19:10

@JoshuaAslanSmith Depends, really. Gauntlets of Ogre Power is a good example of an item that's useful to probably at least half the party but isn't tailored to anyone specific

It'd be a good rando item

Holy Avenger, on the other hand, is an obvious toy for the paladin

Joshua Aslan Smith

@LegendaryDude yeah Im fine with useful, but not super curated stuff like that

godskook

@Yuuki, you have me completely lost. Not sure what you're talking about....

Joshua Aslan Smith

it doesnt always have to be the thing that only a ranger would use etfc.

I just cant count how much completely unusable magic items I got in 5e that I then turned into cash

Yuuki

@godskook It's a quote from Bill O'Reilly about how, according to him, science can't explain tidal motion.

The actual quote is "tides come in, tides go out, you can't explain that!"

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Yuuki I mean yeah in a rando world sense it doesnt which is you see authorial intent similar to a GM there

LegendaryDude

19:12

@JoshuaAslanSmith This sounds like a combination of things, none of which are the fault of 5e's system

Joshua Aslan Smith

@LegendaryDude was 4e, not the fault of the system, Im arguing against loot tables or loot randomizors which is instantly what I think whenever someone says random loot

like diablo style loot drops

Yuuki

The real problem is when a magic item becomes core to a build.

Joshua Aslan Smith

picking up paladin only items when nobody is a playing a paladin etc.

Yuuki

Like keen weapons for critfishing.

LegendaryDude

@JoshuaAslanSmith You said 5e though?

Joshua Aslan Smith

19:14

I said 4e in this comment chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/36865367#36865367

ah

LegendaryDude

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yeah, but the comment I replied to said 5e which is why I said 5e?

Joshua Aslan Smith

I see

godskook

@Yuuki, ok, that makes some sense, but why were you saying it to me?

Joshua Aslan Smith

that was a typo

yeah 4e

LegendaryDude

Ohhhh

okay

Joshua Aslan Smith

19:14

5e doesnt allow you to do that really

if you are playing the setting as they propose it

LegendaryDude

Re: random loot, as a DM I would never roll on a random loot table to find out what's in a treasure hoard during the game

Joshua Aslan Smith

low magic etc.

LegendaryDude

@JoshuaAslanSmith Yes, that was my point; a combination of things not the fault of 5e, but now it all makes sense. :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah

internet misunderstandings!

Yuuki

@godskook It was an aside to the whole thing about sex and being good/bad at it or something.

LegendaryDude

19:15

I would roll on random treasure tables before the game and decide if the results make sense, though

And might change some of the results to better tailored magic items based on the treasure tables

godskook

Loot randomizers aren't -bad-, per se, just they create a certain vibe to the game.

Arguably a more accurate one.

LegendaryDude

Rolling on a random loot table during play, to me, illustrates a lack of DM preparation

but that's just me, and I don't hold it against anyone

NautArch

or giving us two magic scimitars (speed and sharpness.) None of us use scimitars or that type of weapon. Luckily, a NPC i've been given does, but that's not quite the same thing as getting a better weapon for my real guy.

godskook

Well, I don't usually like to roll mid-session.

NautArch

scimitar of speed is a thing, but it's a sword of sharpness...he could have made it a longsword or greatsword.

godskook

19:18

But I generally like adding things I don't find useful for the players to the loot bin because often times they have a different perspective on "useful".

One of my players is obsessed with his googles of minute seeing.

NautArch

but these are just more issues i have with the DM style of this guy. Looking forward to this campaign ending and giving another player a shot at DM.

godskook

That only give a +5 to search.

LegendaryDude

@godskook Well they are Googles so I would hope so

godskook

goggles :P

LegendaryDude

;)

godskook

19:20

Like, I can generally appreciate an utter distaste for loot randomizers in 3.5 because it just doubles-down on 3.5's inherent dysfunctional weakness problem.

LegendaryDude

3.5 is so dependent on magic items that random loot could seriously bone the PCs

godskook

At least if your DM refuses to have magic-marts.

Well, honestly, I don't think that's true because I don't think people have a good grip on what kinds of encounters a party is supposed to actually be capable of facing.

NautArch

our encounters are relaly good - except for his choice to often have monsters that drain gear/stats

LegendaryDude

@godskook Actually I think the opposite is true. EL is based on assumptions that PCs in 3.5 will have acquired certain magic items.

godskook

Well, let me ask you this. What's a CR-appropriate encounter for a single PC?

Of ECL 5

The Oracle

19:24

1

Q: Feedback on healing our community

(This was originally a response to How is the community doing?, but has been moved to its own question on request.) The community’s situation is improving, but acknowledgements & commitments need to be made so we can heal the wounds in our community. I think it's safe to say that we all share t...

discussion meta community

LegendaryDude

@godskook I don't know because I don't play 3.5 (and haven't played PF for over a year) but I do know there is information out there that shows what magic items 3.5e characters are expected to have at a given level.

godskook

So, per the rules

CR appropriate for 3.5 on an ECL 5 PC is a CR 1 encounter.

That's the baseline.

If I had a party of 4 ECL 5s, and I used 4 monsters

Joshua Aslan Smith

@doppelgreener is your answer as a question on the meta meant for other users to throw their 2 cents in on the issue or is it for the mods to respond to?

godskook

THey'd be 4 CR 1s.

Yuuki

Side note, but I've always liked getting wondrous items more than magic weapons. Maybe because wondrous items do all sorts of weird things whereas magic weapons tend to be combat-focused.

godskook

19:28

While CR and ECL aren't perfectly insync, they're close, and technically, for NPCs, CR=~ECL

Yuuki

Maybe that's why I like that 5e magic weapon generator I posted since about half of the effects give wondrous item-like effects to the weapons.

godskook

(#LA works differently)

Yuuki

... I just realized that you can Counterspell Ceremony.

"Speak now or forever hold your peace", huh?

LegendaryDude

@Yuuki "If anyone objects, speak now or forever hold your pea-" "COUNTERSPELL!"

3

godskook

Admittedly, CR variates per encounter, and you can have up to CR+4, without it being "unfair", but a CR+4 is supposed to be an absurdly hard encounter.

Yuuki

19:30

So do divorce judges have to be able to cast Dispel Magic?

godskook

lol

LegendaryDude

No, because the magic from the spell is unrelated to the actual marriage. Marriage itself isn't a magical bond.

(reading through that reddit thread just made me mad)

(also I don't like fun or jokes)

godskook

Which reminds me, I relly have been meaning to post a thread somewhere about that power-creep perception.

NautArch

NO FUN OR JOKES

LegendaryDude

@NautArch That's the rule at the table when I DM.

XD

Yuuki

19:33

Sometimes I think about my playstyle (or at least what I enjoy in D&D) and wonder whether I would have more fun DMing than PCing.

NautArch

@LegendaryDude You are here for my music. NOW DANCE MONKEYS, DANCE!

TPK.

also, not sure how I wrote music. Clearly meant to write amusement. That's some weird brain stuff going on.

LegendaryDude

@NautArch I get it, completely. I do that all the time.

And obviously it's because monkeys dance to music, not to amusement.

Yuuki

Huh. That's an interesting way to negate a spellcaster: force them into plate armor and now they have spell failure.

Adam

@Yuuki Hmmm, that is a really cool idea

godskook

My solution was an E6 variant.

Yuuki

19:42

@Adam It makes a bit of sense if you're trying to capture but not kill a spellcaster.

LegendaryDude

@Yuuki I'm picturing like, plate armor with latches and padlocks all over it.

Yuuki

The plate armor both keeps them from casting effectively and gives them increased protection so they don't die if your party gets ambushed.

Adam

also potentially far cheaper to make some animated armor attach itself to a person, instead of surrounding your whole lair in an anti-magic field

Yuuki

@LegendaryDude Now I'm thinking about the restraining thing in Doctor Strange but it's a set of plate armor instead.

LegendaryDude

@Adam If you want to be mean, make it cursed too so they really can't remove it.

Yuuki

19:44

Like it's collapsible but when you throw it at someone, it unfolds and encases them.

Adam

@LegendaryDude In Soviet Waterdeep, cursed armor attunes to you!

LegendaryDude

Oh wait

You definitely said Doctor Strange.

good thing it's Friday. stares off into the distance

godskook

Well, if you have access to AMF-tech

There's AMF shackles.

Also, amusingly, full-plate slows movement, making your wizard prisoner too slow to outrun you.

NautArch

sort of like the restraining mechanism from Lord Of Illusions

godskook

Y'know, by 3.5's ruleset, full-plate is CHEAP after level 6 or so.

Papayaman1000

19:55

It's official, my next BBEG is going to have a ravenous, sentient, cursed plate enforcer.

Yuuki

@Papayaman1000 So... the Destroyer?

doppelgreener

@JoshuaAslanSmith I just posted it for people to read, I don't expect any specific type of response to it.

Yuuki

Destroyer (Thor)

The Destroyer is a fictional object appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The Destroyer is usually depicted as an opponent to Thor. It is a suit of Asgardian armor, animated by magic, which first appears in Journey into Mystery #118 (Jul. 1965) and was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Debuting in the Silver Age of Comic Books, the Destroyer is featured in over four decades of Marvel continuity and other Marvel-endorsed products such as animated television series, live-action films, video games, and merchandise such as action figures and trading cards. Due to trademark...

Papayaman1000

Yeah more or less I guess

doppelgreener

@Papayaman1000 Do they have an opinion on ceramic vs metal plates? (Or plastic?)

Papayaman1000

19:57

@doppelgreener I'm not sure I want to know why you ask...

doppelgreener

@Papayaman1000 I don't want to get on their bad side.

Papayaman1000

@doppelgreener ...Oh, I get it now.

I think?

doppelgreener

Papayaman1000

@doppelgreener Okay I got it then

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