Root Access

Ben N

00:00

For WDC: forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?t=12257&start=20

oldmud0

customers ought to learn that when they throw a key into the river, that they shouldn't expect to be ordering a search and rescue team the next day to find the key again

bwDraco

10TB helium hard drives for consumers! anandtech.com/show/10496/…

oldmud0

Holy william shatner, there goes the helium reserves we found a month ago

Burgi

@CanadianLuke i jsut googled it

DavidPostill

@oldmud0 There are only 9 100K+ users. They have all been members for more than 5 years. Even Jon Skeet only has 74k on meta.se

Ben N

00:04

All of those are SE employees, except for one, who is a long-time SO mod

DavidPostill

@BenN Probably not. He's just trolling as usual.

oldmud0

seriously? why helium? isn't that wasteful, to dump helium we could be using for medical devices onto crappy consumer hard drives that people just throw away like happy meals

seagate barraCUDA

*does not support OpenCL

Psycogeek

helium drive on its 5year birthday, with 5 year warrenty

Journeyman Geek

\o/

DavidPostill

@oldmud0 It's more wasteful filling balloons with the stuff, and then inhaling it ...

oldmud0

00:09

you know the helium drive has failed when you say "oh no....." in high pitched voice

Dang it there is new blister in my foot and it itches

Sounds like pre_fail error to me.

Should I replace it with a helium foot?

Bob

@oldmud0 A single quench uses orders of magnitude more helium than a single HDD.

Heck, cooling for maglev uses more.

A party balloon full of helium could fill a dozen drives.

oldmud0

ye but there will be 12x more drives being sold

Bob

Somehow, I don't think so...

oldmud0

what, new generation knows to not waste money on such luxuries

Bob

I've seen individual parties use enough balloons to fill a few hundred drives.

oldmud0

00:14

what about freon

can we use freon for our drives

Bob

Sure, you go do that.

oldmud0

what about lead, and strontium?

Bob

Go ahead.

Ben N

Freon, freoff, freindeterminate

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 how would that reduce the air friction resistance?

oldmud0

00:15

Heck I'll put the drive right inside a tesla coil

Journeyman Geek

meh. Might as well go straight to uranium and polonium. GO HEAVY OR GO HOME!

bwDraco

How long have helium drives lasted in the rough enterprise environments?

Journeyman Geek

@oldmud0 now,what did we say about trolling in the past?

@bwDraco they've only been out a few years no?

oldmud0

Well why don't we skip the exotic gases and go right for vacuum

Strengthen hull, tinify the platter to compensate

Journeyman Geek

and there's a few other exotic technologies that let folk increase capasity as well

HAMR is amusing

Psycogeek

00:17

a hammer has always decreased my storage capacity

ChatBot John Cavil

HAMMERTIME!

Journeyman Geek

Heat Assisted Magnetic Recording

"Lets heat up the the platter with ~~fire~~ a laser so we can erase it more accurately"

oldmud0

There's also VHS. That's on me, of course.

Still researching on how it's going to work.

Needless to say, VCRs aren't that well documented.

Bob

I'd imagine VCRs were very well documented, considering the hundreds of companies designing their own players.

The trick is finding a copy of specs online...

oldmud0

It's a helical design, which means that the head drum must be precisely tuned for NTSC/PAL/whatever

> VHS tapes have approximately 3 MHz of video bandwidth and 400 kHz of chroma bandwidth.

Bob

00:23

> Clearance processing complete at SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA

oldmud0

Which is why a simple "video to VCR" won't work well

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 it worked fine for 20 years. just convert your data to a digital picture, then convert that to analog and store 2 times on the vcr seperated by 1 second. if you are using a different color system, then recover the analog data, convert it to digital, convert it back to the data store. then do all that over again at a different frame rate, and color system.

oldmud0

Yeah but what if the colors are too vibrant and distinct? They'll smudge with one another

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 they always will, and huge variations in the analog (and digital when it is there) processing. But your analisis routine would discover the ability to destinguish the data, and use as much analog spaces as nessisary to define what was originally there. this somewhat is what a digital time base corrector already did.

oldmud0

So, what kind of hardware can I generate an NTSC signal on?

Psycogeek

00:36

you do realise that NTSC is more of a "standards" and it exists in digital form too ?

So what can you create an analog picture from a digital picture with? about 50,000 possible devices :-)

oldmud0

Yeah but it requires the right clock speed

And generating it from a digital picture kind of puts me at the mercy of whatever device I'm using that does the conversion

Bob

> Processed at SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA 10:26

JakeGould

Hi folks. Silly question, but I have 20,000+ rep so I thought I could protect any question. But I have run into a few questions—like this one—‌where I can’t. The question is from 2012 (!!!) and has no accepted answer. Is that why I can’t protect it?

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 yes mercy me, the variations are enormous. You do know that as a proof of concept device that during some time in the history of VHS there was a recorder that strored the pictures on the tape digitally. and being totally obsolete a recorder of that type would cost you about $5 , if you could find it in the dump.

oldmud0

so... you're saying that if I ever find that device, I could just feed it digital data directly?

Psycogeek

00:42

I believe also somone made a computer tape storage system for direct data that used premium quality vhs tapes, but even less of those would exist.

Ben N

@JakeGould This MSE answer says the post has to be a day old, but maybe that applies to the last time it was edited?

Can you protect this?

(Don't actually, I'm just asking whether it lets you)

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 well no that device was still designed for analog video I/O , you would have to do some electronics fudging, and it would not "scan" like a datatape system would, it would be strictly for streaming.

oldmud0

this sounds a lot like a DVR

Journeyman Geek

@JakeGould maybe there's some other criteria for protection?

oldmud0

are you sure this uses VHS?

Ben N

00:44

Oh

19

Q: "Protect Questions" privilege page doesn't mention the new answer requirement

A new feature was implemented a few weeks ago from Prevent protecting questions under certain circumstances - We recently implemented a change to protected questions based on the suggestion by Robert with a few modifications. 15k users will still be able to protect but in order to do so t...

You can't if the protection wouldn't have stopped at least one answer

Bob

Yea that's because protection is not supposed to be pre-emptive.

Ben N

Makes sense

Journeyman Geek

ah hah!

JakeGould

@BenN Nope. Can’t protect that other post as well from 2012.

Bob

You should only protect questions where there's a clear problem of "me too" answers, and usually even that isn't necessary (because the auto-protect catches them pretty quick).

Journeyman Geek

00:45

@JakeGould "provided the question has received at least one answer from a user with less than 10 reputation (such users would then be prevented from posting further answers after the question is protected)."

I believe its the fine print

and with a single poor answer it feels a bit... overkill

I'd rather use the opportunity to educate

oldmud0

Funny, google led me to a handout from MIT course 6.111

JakeGould

@JourneymanGeek Ah. That makes sense. Let at least one fool post a kooky answer before you decide the party has to end.

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 i am just indicating that it has been done before. the only thing you could do "new" would be to make a consumer cheap piece of junk from the endlesslly discarded VHS stuff, by playing around with pictures and programs and A/D conversions.

Journeyman Geek

@JakeGould one low rep user

Ben N

The protection wouldn't have stopped the now-downvoted answer from appearing; it only would have stopped potentially useful new things from new users

"Tune in next time for Exploring MSE with Root Access!" <game show outro music>

Bob

00:47

@JakeGould Protection is supposed to stop a pattern... a single data point does not a pattern make.

oldmud0

@Psycogeek so what should I waste my time on?

cat

!! Caaaaaat

ChatBot John Cavil

oldmud0

if it seems so "wasteful" doing this

Bob

Though I suppose the ol' "PST repair" questions are usually a problem :P

JakeGould

00:48

@JourneymanGeek 9 times out of 10—from my casual observation—a question that is old that gets an answer from a low rep user… Well, that answer will be crap. So fair enough that 1 bad answer does not match a “pattern” but hey. Whoamitosayanything!

cat

4

oldmud0

thus it begins

Psycogeek

@oldmud0 writing stupid comments on youtube channels seems to work for some people :-) I am not discouraging your experimentation. You might just find cheap machines out there that already did much of the work.

JakeGould

!!! Caaaaaat

ChatBot John Cavil

@JakeGould That didn't make much sense. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

DavidPostill

@oldmud0 Trolling? :)

Journeyman Geek

00:50

@JakeGould 300 rep user tho

Bob

@JakeGould Well, protection doesn't solve that, either... you'd have to block new users from answering old questions entirely. It's rare-ish that random poor answers all end up on the same old questions.

Journeyman Geek

so 'enough' to have minimal trust

oldmud0

this russian ISA card connects to vcr

ArVid

Ramhound

0

Q: How do I uninstall an application whose installer has a revoked signing certificate

Several years ago I installed an application on my then Windows 7, since upgraded to Windows 10, machine. Earlier today I attempted to uninstall it while cleaning up applications I haven't used in a long time. The uninstall failed with an error message about the installer not being trusted. ...

windows-10 uninstall certificate code-signing

JakeGould

@Bob Fair enough. Also, I don’t know from this cat nonsense.

Ramhound

00:51

You guys have any other suggestions?

Bob

@JakeGould Ah... cats and random animals are a bit of a channel meme at this point.

oldmud0

But, it's outdated, so what if it was reproduced in 2016

cat

Your face is nonsense!

oldmud0

@cat No... your face is nonsense

@cat caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!

cat

Meaow hisses growl

Journeyman Geek

00:52

@Ramhound changing the computer clock ;p

oldmud0

[hissing intesifies]

Journeyman Geek

or using a dedicated uninstaller of some flavour

sticks duct-tape over @oldmud0's hiss hole.

Bob

@Ramhound IIRC usually the signature date must be within cert expiry, and that's all that matters. So it's not an out-of-date issue.

If this cert has been explicitly revoked, then it's more serious than that.

oldmud0

'pedia says that only 2 grades of luminance were used in ArVid which means... ArVid v2!!!

cat

sudo cat /dev/zero > /proc/oldmud/brain

oldmud0

00:53

Error writing to /proc/oldmud/brain: Permission denied

2

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Those "dedicated uninstallers" just run the normal uninstaller. Or hit it with a giant sledgehammer.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I'm thinking the giant sledgehammer here

cat

@oldmud0 you mean Error: Device not found

oldmud0

@cat no it's not a device, you put me in /proc

guess I'm a process?

cat

!! Caat

ChatBot John Cavil

00:55

oldmud0

So yep. Arvid can be improved upon

Ramhound

@Bob - Shouldn't the author be able to still trust it?

Bob

@Ramhound Explicit revocation? Nope. I think I've run into this with revoked certs in browsers before.

I suspect there's some way you can get around it, but it won't be pretty.

cat

Bob

@Ramhound Maybe removing the signature and running it as an unsigned installer would work/

Ramhound

00:59

That comic is honestly describes my entire experience at Superuser at times

Psycogeek

at least the internet has an off button, drama in real life continues even after the person is gone.

Ben N

@Ramhound VS has a signtool utility that can strip the signature

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco I mainly use dash charge - since I haven't been affected by the battery life bug on the current OP3 release, I just pop my phone into charge in the morning

Ramhound

Yeah, I suggested that tool

mr enigma

a domain controller uses access tokens, and so smb over a

workgroup

correct?

and so does SMB*

Journeyman Geek

01:11

@Ramhound heh. Yeah, you more so than most. I swear you've gotten more complaints than any other non troll person here for your comments ;p

Ramhound

I know some of those same people, would force me to leave a comment, when I issue a vote

If that ever happens, "NT", will become my favorite word

mr enigma

short is the same as dword right

Ramhound

"What is the point of getting 3600MHz DDR4 ram if the best Intel 2011-3 processor (6950X) has a memory spec of 2400/2133MHz and some of the best mobo's for that processor only support up to 3000MHz?"

My politically correct response: if your hardware can support the faster memory, and you are willing to pay the difference for that faster memory, you should use the faster memory. This is the type of question that we really can't answer.

Their Response: Did you even read the question or am I missing something? If your processor and mobo are below the 3600mhz spec (and I can't find any modern…

(The memory frequency listed on Intel's specification isn't the maximum frequency the CPU supports) that is the reason XMP exists (which I believe is the one that is an Intel creation)

The software that user was using is: netlimiter.com by the way

Psycogeek

@Ramhound yea that has come up before. that the Intel ARC data showed only certian ram frequencies (like say 1333 or 1600). people were saying that is why the memory did not work. I do not believe that is correct, although it seems like the "spec".

Journeyman Geek

@Ramhound high frequency ram is typically pointless outside certain specific situations

Psycogeek

01:23

it is not the max limit

Ramhound

I know it isn't

-1

Q: DDR4 ram, how fast is too fast?

What is the point of getting 3600MHz DDR4 ram if the best Intel 2011-3 processor (6950X) has a memory spec of 2400/2133MHz and some of the best mobo's for that processor only support up to 3000MHz? Assuming you are overclocking, then speeds of 3600 still don't make sense, or do they?

memory computer-building overclocking ddr

Journeyman Geek

but that's the sort of place where I wouldn't bother commenting.

Ramhound

Alex does not :$

Journeyman Geek

If I must, I'd answer

Ramhound

But I believe it to by my opionion if something is "too fast" I am running 1333 MHz DDR3 because of price

32GB 1333 MHz was $300 cheaper then what I could be using

for virtually no performance boost.

I would have to get 3000 MHz to get any real performance increase and it would barely be twice as fast.

creidhne

01:30

@Journey Regarding the Macintosh G4 comments you asked about the Mactracker.

-1

A: RAM Specifications for Power Mac G4

Try Mactracker, a Macintosh application (free to download) that has information about Apple products back to the Apple I in April 1976. Mactracker lists 20 models of Power Mac G3/G4/G5 computers. The information includes an overview, software, memory and graphics, connections (Ethernet, USB, Fir...

I realize the question is stale. But it asked how to find memory specifications for out-of-production Macs.

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne more that the answer reads like an ad

I'd go "You can use Mactracker on (another mac|pc) to find this - you can key in (information) and it would give you a screen with the relevant information"

then screenshots and such

creidhne

Well, if it's an ad, it's one that shows that Mactracker has the answers about memory for every Mac ever made.

Psycogeek

so many numbers, as all high numbered memory has more wait states involved. you have to have the whole thing, the high speed and the low latency to get the large memory bandwidth. It is like buying a LCD monitor with 1ms (claimed) refresh rate, only to find out there is a 45ms delay in the processing engine to get it from the card to the screen. Just give me the real number that i care about , it turns up to "11" :-)

Journeyman Geek

see point 5 here meta.superuser.com/a/5330/10165

@bwDraco its not spam

@creidhne agreed. So, what does this run on?

bwDraco

I saw no reason to flag it. I was rather puzzled by the downvote, though.

Journeyman Geek

01:35

Another OS X machine? Would it run on mac classic?

creidhne

@Journey I can do that, but screen shots are on the linked website. I included screen shots relevant to the question. Do we want a tutorial on how to use a free App?

bwDraco

The machine uses SDR SDRAM.

Journeyman Geek

Would you run this on the machine you want to find ram for or another one?

@creidhne actually? Yes

bwDraco

The app is also available for iOS devices.

itunes.apple.com/us/app/mactracker/id311421597?mt=8

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne its a quirk of the site, since we don't allow software recommendations (by community consensus) and this is a workaround for that.

creidhne

01:37

@Journey Yes, Mactracker runs on Macs back to OX 8.5. See Download on the website.

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne this is information that belongs in the answer.

bwDraco

!! s/OX/OS/

ChatBot John Cavil

@bwDraco @Journey Yes, Mactracker runs on Macs back to OS 8.5. See Download on the website. (source)

bwDraco

System 8 is really, really old.

Journeyman Geek

and yeah, an mini tutorial would probably stop people bitching about it

(I got commenting cause someone tried to protect the question and couldn't, and I'd rather get people to improve a answer than delete it)

creidhne

01:38

@Journey It's not a software recommendation. It's a resource for information about legacy Macs that is hard to find in one place, anywhere else.

bwDraco

I'm rather surprised the app's developer went to such great pains to make it run on a nearly 20 year old OS.

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne its a software recommendation ._.

trust me on this

creidhne

@bwDrac He's been doing this like forever.

Michael Frank

Also, those screenshots need like 500% more JPG.

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne tbh, my intent here is to try to get that answer to the point where if someone complains, I can smack em on the nose with a rolled up newspaper for complaining too much

@MichaelFrank ALL THE ARTIFACTS!

creidhne

01:41

@MichaelFrank Yes, if they were specific to the model of the G4 in question, but we don't know that.

bwDraco

@creidhne When recommending software, we tend to expect that the answer includes how to use it to solve the OP's problem. Otherwise, it wouldn't directly address the question.

:31207635 Laptop fan?

That Brazilian Guy

Carpet-powered CPU fan

Michael Frank

@ThatBrazilianGuy That's what my dryer looks like after my wife uses it a couple times.

bwDraco

This is why you clean out the fans on a laptop every few months.

creidhne

@JourneymanGeek I can beef up the answer as you've suggested. It would seem that the more I pump the App, the more like advertising it becomes.

Journeyman Geek

01:42

@creidhne shrug I'll try to do some of the edits I suggested but I don't have an OS X box to do it right.

bwDraco

support.hp.com/us-en/document/c01657439

That Brazilian Guy

@bwDraco How I proceed about that without disassembling it? My Dell Inspiron is hard as hell to disassemble.

creidhne

@JourneymanGeek No need for you to do that. I'm happy to do it.

That Brazilian Guy

@bwDraco You call taht dusty? Oh, sweet summer child....

bwDraco

@ThatBrazilianGuy As HP says, turn off the machine and blast a compressed-gas duster into the cooling vents.

That Brazilian Guy

01:44

@bwDraco Yeah, I assumed that would help. I'll see where I can buy one around here.

bwDraco

I do this every couple of months or so on my gaming laptop. Never had any serious issues with dust accumulating inside the machine. It's standard maintenance procedure.

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne too late. Feel free to improve on my edits tho ;p

Bob

@bwDraco Doesn't do much for the wads.

@bwDraco That's because Clevo designs are different (and roomier).

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I find a soft brush helps.

Bob

Also depends on the kind of dust in your environment.

Journeyman Geek

01:45

and for my PC, I tend to use cheap felt to clean, since dust sticks really well to it

bwDraco

@Bob I've done this on my old HP laptop and never had dust accumulation issues on that machine, either.

Bob

Some types of dust blow right out. Others form large clumps that must be physically removed.

That Brazilian Guy

@bwDraco This = blowing compressed air from the outside?

bwDraco

@Bob On this laptop, I can just remove the main service cover and blast it out but this is rarely necessary.

@ThatBrazilianGuy Through the vents.

Bob

> Departed Facility in SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA SYDNEY - AUSTRALIA 11:37

That Brazilian Guy

01:47

@JourneymanGeek Where do I find a tiny brush that will pass thru the vents?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob \o/ ?

creidhne

@JourneymanGeek Okay, do you need less artifacts for the images?

Journeyman Geek

is that on time?

@ThatBrazilianGuy daiso.

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Well, it's supposed to be by "end of day" today :P

not "out for delivery" yet though

probably moving to a more local depot first

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne would be awesome.

and since this is stackexchange, red freehand circles in the right places would get you upvotes and love.

bwDraco

01:48

Speaking of cooling issues, we have a few old P4-based Dell workstations at my college campus where the fan keeps revving up. I've opened up one of them and found very little dust in the HSF assembly. The heatsink was also merely warm to the touch. Is bad thermal paste the issue here?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I wonder if the ~~mailed you a brick~~ declared it as a laptop case of 7 dollar value.

creidhne

@JourneymanGeek Okay on the arrows pointing to the memory spec. Can do.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco its a dell

That Brazilian Guy

@JourneymanGeek You mean that? daisojapanbrasil.com.br

Journeyman Geek

@creidhne red freehand circles are a running joke on SE. Arrows will do.

@ThatBrazilianGuy IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE!

100% of RA canids and vulpines are fans of daiso.

bwDraco

01:49

352

A: The Many Memes of Meta

Meme: Freehand Circles Originator: TheTXI Cultural Height: TBD See Also: Here, and Here as answer to this post

creidhne

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I know.

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek Not all of the older machines do this, though.

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco dells of the era are... terrible

bwDraco

In fact, the one I opened up had no obvious airflow issues of any sort.

That Brazilian Guy

@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I'll only have to travel to the next state.

creidhne

01:50

@JourneymanGeek Thanks for your input. Happy trails...

Journeyman Geek

@ThatBrazilianGuy alas. If youcan toucan?

bwDraco

Is it thermal paste or some other issue?

That Brazilian Guy

@JourneymanGeek Isn't it where you bought that banana stand?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek lol, the ol' brick switcheroo

Journeyman Geek

@ThatBrazilianGuy wine bottle stand, close enough.

That Brazilian Guy

01:51

Wasn't it a banana headphone stand?

Journeyman Geek

I've not seen the mythical banana stand.

naw, I bent a wine bottle stand, and slipped a chair sock over it.

bwDraco

I told the staff that the thermal paste was bad on that machine. It's really an old relic and they had much newer Dells (with Sandy Bridge and Haswell Core i5 and i7 processors IIRC) for most students.

Bob

@ThatBrazilianGuy waitwaitwait

there's Daiso in Brazil?!?!

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob I'mwaitingwaitingwaiting

Bob

I wonder what the prices are :P

Psycogeek

01:53

@bwDraco probably. most thermal goop i have ever removed/replaced from manufactured machines was junk, not designed for very long term uses. every thing i have replaced with my opinion of the best stuff out there, insead works for the life of the machine, and on dissasembly is still in great shape.

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob Yeah. There's also starbucks, outback, applebees and walmart.

Bob

100-yen in Japan, 2.80 AUD in Australia...

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek They still skimp in some places. I opened up one of the newer staff machines (equipped with an i7-4700) and found that the PCH has no heatsink on it.

Journeyman Geek

sgd2 here for most things

Bob

Probably some R$50 in Brazil :P

Journeyman Geek

01:54

6,99

Bob

since they import everything

bwDraco

That machine has a beefy CPU cooler and never ran hot under load but has no heatsink on the (B85) PCH. Why?

That Brazilian Guy

Although, to be honest, I've only seen applebees twice on malls, and walmart I only heard about but haven't ever seen. starbucks is quite commong, outback not so but not uncommon either. Daiso is the first time I heard about.

Bob

@ThatBrazilianGuy heh. not seen any of those here. except starbucks and daiso

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob BRL 6,99 (USD 2.14)

Bob

01:55

@ThatBrazilianGuy oh, that's actually surprisingly cheap :P

oldmud0

What I miss

Bob

everything

oldmud0

o ok

Bob

daisos and walmarts

oldmud0

what is even a daiso

this is some massive scale trolling

bwDraco

01:56

(That system is an OptiPlex 9020.)

Bob

it's smiggle but with housewares

Journeyman Geek

@Bob I found one of the iridium point daiso FPs

I haven't tried it yet but it feels nice

oldmud0

Well, mine is a poweredge 2600

Bob

@JourneymanGeek the metal ones, yea?

Journeyman Geek

@Bob and less embarassing to walk into if you're not a tweenage gir

Bob

01:57

they're still out here -_-

Journeyman Geek

@Bob yeah

Bob

pick up some extra ink carts if you can, it's pretty good ink! :P

Journeyman Geek

Remember the KS pen @MichaelFrank and I ordered?

That Brazilian Guy

@Bob Not that cheap for the assorted random generic stuff that it seems to be

oldmud0

So, at least there's a piece of garbage out there to compare with your computer.

Bob

01:58

@JourneymanGeek I got one too -_-

bwDraco

Someone new to fountain pens?

Michael Frank

@JourneymanGeek Nooooo. Really?

Journeyman Geek

this feels like that

That Brazilian Guy

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco hardly new

but we found something new to us

Bob

01:58

...I suspect geek has been using FPs longer than you

bwDraco

I'd always fill from a bottle using a converter instead.

@JourneymanGeek: How long have you been using fountain pens?

oldmud0

Daiso, festivals of porcelain? like pieces of japanese "exclusives"?

Journeyman Geek

@bwDraco I have no idea

bwDraco

@JourneymanGeek, @Bob: Out of curiosity, why do you use FPs?

That Brazilian Guy

There are dozens of generic stores selling cheap Chinese import. Most stuff cheaper than BRL 6,99 actually.

Journeyman Geek

01:59

at least 10/11 years if you count the disposables

@bwDraco cause it feels nice?

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