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3:00 PM
I can still review the post even after I flag it again - just don't leave or refresh the page.
 
say "flag" again
 
ok nothing there.
Flagging a post that's already in the LQP queue has no effect - it doesn't increase the reviews needed to delete a post - always 4
but it does increase the "Looks OK" reviews needed
always 4 on SO, and 6 elsewhere
I can't find the reference for "increased Looks OK reviews". Maybe I have a bad memory?
 
11
A: Can flags send a post into the Low Quality Posts review queue?

Shog9As of July 2013, Very Low Quality flags automatically add the flagged post to the Low Quality review queue. As of April 2014, Not An Answer flags do the same. Each review task requires a minimum number of "Looks OK" reviews (2 on SO, 1 everywhere else) to be dequeued; this number increases by on...

 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Offensive body detected: Extracting matrices from struct matlab by Michaelo on stackoverflow.com
fp- by iBug
 
Looks like my mind's all right.
Given the point that I'm judging before adding extra flags, it's doing no harm at all.
One can even argue that an extra flag on a truly NAA post can prevent an extra robo-reviewer before the post's wrongly dequeued, but that argument is a bit irrational.
 
3:13 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: What does "invalid consistency" mean? by rm79 on iota.SE
naa- by WELZ
 
@Undo why did you revert the revert
@iBug we're more thinking about the mod queue
!!/rev
 
If it's flagged then it's already in the mod queue.
 
sigh
 
teward/Solar Flare received failover signal. (@quartata)
Restart: API quota is 19999.
 
3:18 PM
!!/standby bw
 
bwDraco/Linode is switching to standby
 
API quota is per-instance?
 
per IP
!!/pull
 
Restart: API quota is 19983.
 
!!/allnotificationsites 11540
 
3:19 PM
You will get notified for these sites:
/failover, /standby, codegolf.stackexchange.com
 
after_save?
 
Conveniently happened about twenty minutes after I removed those debug statements >.>
 
obviously the timing is still screwy
I'll take a closer look in a few
 
...maybe we should rename that command to !!/allnotifications
Less likely to typo, for one thing
 
3:23 PM
@quartata after_save runs every time the post is saved. I don't think it'd help.
 
... or even shorten to !!/allnoti
that's just 20 bytes' work
I can implement that faster than one fails a review audit.
 
Full words are good
!!/allnotifications seems reasonable
 
@Undo No such command 'allnotifications'.
 
!!/fullwordsaregooddoyouagree?
 
@iBug No such command 'fullwordsaregooddoyouagree'.
 
3:25 PM
or better yet, full sentences
!!/showmeallsitesthatiwillbenotifiedof
 
@iBug No such command 'showmeallsitesthatiwillbenotifiedof'.
 
@Undo I mean limited to on create
It looks like after_commit might actually still occur within the transaction...?
We need whatever happens at the very end
I'll take a look in AR source
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, repeating words in body: ERD Diagram Creation for a Day Care Center by gcat on stackoverflow.com
 
3:32 PM
@SmokeDetector v
 
 
Yeah, so being able to raise an exception to cancel it means it almost certainly occurs inside the transaction
Which means we can't do shit
unless we can use a good old fashioned mysql trigger
 
github.com/mperham/sidekiq/wiki/… Sidekiq recommends exactly what we're doing
 
wiggles eyebrows until they fall off from code smell
 
@Undo both added. CI passed.
@quartata Looks like you're trying to edit a message under a bad network connection.
 
3:35 PM
And it occurring inside the transaction doesn't make sense - that should fail every time, right?
 
jrg
(sidekiq problems?)
 
No. Remember it spawns a thread
 
@jrg Rails problems that Sidekiq has an FAQ for
 
@quartata how does that work? O_o
What is that command even?
 
Hm?
Just shows you notifications
@Undo pretty sure Sidekiq is wrong and it really does occur within the transaction
 
3:37 PM
But what was the meaning behind giving it that number followed by getting that response?
 
Room ID
 
@angussidney metasmoke.erwaysoftware.com/status/code shows all the relevant version information from production.
 
Unfortunately it also looks like after_save comes before after_commit
 
Use rvm to set the Ruby version, then run bundler to get everything else
 
jrg
@Undo Gotcha.
 
3:38 PM
@quartata Everything I'm finding says it's outside of the transaction. blog.bigbinary.com/2015/03/01/…
Issue in Rails referencing that behavior: github.com/rails/rails/issues/11118
One way to know for sure would be to put the call to autoflagging at github.com/Charcoal-SE/metasmoke/blob/master/app/controllers/…. Ugly, but safe
And maybe not even ugly if we say we only want to autoflag on newly created posts from Smokey
 
Actually hold up
What was the post that was missed
 
CI on c44cc46 succeeded.
 
!!/pull
thanks @iBug
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev c44cc46 (Undo1: Merge pull request #1633 from iBug/patch-4) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
Restart: API quota is 19663.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user: Link Referrer in HTML by Nur Roni on stackoverflow.com
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 39871e9: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
3:55 PM
[open] Hi o/
 
\o/
 
@Undo halflife literally restarted right in the middle of that, which is why I didn't catch it
 
Perfect timing
 
Restart: API quota is 19563.
 
3:59 PM
Stickermule? I thought you were going with someone else.
Not that I oppose, since I recommended stickermule. :)
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in body: Looping and pattern matching python by Sandeep Mehra on stackoverflow.com
 
sd f
 
Is that my fault again?
No! Yay!
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on c3ac011: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
4:13 PM
gasp Now I can fix all my PRs so CI passes!
 
Thanks for all of those @thesecretmaster :) Merged one, then got distracted with something else
 
No problem. I'm trying to find ones that I can actually complete without really knowing my way around the MS codebase
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on fdf69ae: Your tests failed on CircleCI
 
Want me to fix CI on the remaining ones?
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on fdf69ae: Your tests failed on CircleCI
@chade_: It seems this is your first time sending feedback to SmokeDetector. Make sure you've read the guidance on your privileges, the available commands, and what feedback to use in different situations.
 
4:15 PM
@thesecretmaster #322 is good, #321 would probably be best served by disabling that Rubocop error on that line
Splitting it up in any way will be ugly
 
Oh, did I trigger line-too-long or whatever that cop is called?
 
yeah, by 5 chars :P
 
I could make it neater
 
25, actually, but still
 
Putting each domain on it's own line would be cleaner
 
4:17 PM
@thesecretmaster Your call. # rubocop:disable LineLength # rubocop:enable LineLength to ignore it on that line
That'd work for me
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on 2493a14: Your tests failed on CircleCI
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on 2493a14: Your tests failed on CircleCI
 
@Undo Should be good now. Let's see what CI thinks.
Also, lemme know what you think of my search PR. It's kinda ugly, but I couldn't find a better way to get post type beyond checking the URL.
 
Yeah, that's what we do everywhere else too
 
contains /questions/ vs contains /a/
 
But answer links will contain /questions/ too?
 
4:25 PM
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 21ab03d: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 21ab03d: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
@thesecretmaster Not in metasmoke, we use the /a/ derivatives
(or more accurately, SmokeDetector does)
 
Yeah, so I did /a/ and /q/
Oh, I'll change it to /questions then.
 
@thesecretmaster change it to /q(?:uestions)?
 
Not sure if mysql would like that
It does not
 
4:30 PM
if it's not capturing, then use /q(uestions)?
 
Shouldn't need to
it should always be either /questions or /a
 
Yeah, I think the regex is more hassle than it's worth
 
what about matching open tags except XHTML self-contained tags?
@Undo aren't we going to adapt to /q/<ID> later?
 
@Undo How would you feel about a PR with a migration which adds a post_type field to every Post record based on link? And the fixes everything else to use that?
That's a lot of changes, but it's doable
 
I made a bunch of changes to the meta post gist if y'all wanna take another look
2
 
4:37 PM
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on cf98827: Your tests failed on CircleCI
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci failure on cf98827: Your tests failed on CircleCI
 
@thesecretmaster Pretty good. Queries would be cheaper, and it's minimal information to store.
I don't think it's that many changes, actually. Search is the big one, not sure where else
 
OK. Also, anything currently using link wouldn't have to change, because link would still exist.
 
Aye
 
I'll make an issue, because I don't have the time to do it right now. In a week or so, I should be able to though.
 
@ArtOfCode > with autoflagging in place, the average is 10x less
I'd prefer "spams disappear 10x faster" or "90% less". (basic maths grammar?)
 
4:42 PM
eh, they're all correct
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 86ac0b5: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 86ac0b5: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
Number of flags cast on posts per-site by Charcoal, autoflags and manual through the API
 
@ArtOfCode I think the graph is better inverted.
 
@quartata indeed, stable dictionary ordering is a recent introduction. I think this was on 3.5 but not at my computer
 
4:48 PM
huh?
 
with "1 flag from Charcoal" on the top
This way, we know that (e.g.) "6k posts were flagged by at least one C member", or "100 posts were flagged by 6 C members"
since "posts flagged by at least 3 Charcoals" is a subset of "posts flagged by at least 1 Charcoal", it makes sense to put the 6/5/4-flag bar under (below/beneath) 3/2/1
 
Gotcha
 
invert the bars, not the whole graph
 
@ArtOfCode It might be useful to say "~n% of charcoalers flags aren't on this graph", a stat that you could get by checking number of charcoalers w/ > 200 feedbacks & api flags on divided by number of charcoalers w/ 200 feedbacks.
 
@thesecretmaster ...how does that get me said stat?
 
4:57 PM
Active charcoalers w/ api flags off out of all active charcoalers. That'll give you % of users that don't flag through the API.
 
@thesecretmaster things can also be done in the reverse way. There's FDSC.
 
yeah
So we could have people who don't flag through the API and people who only flag through the API occasionally
 
@ArtOfCode You could pick a threshold number of API flags?
 
@thesecretmaster Or I could go the easy route and just say "some"
:)
 
But numbers...
 
5:07 PM
I don't recall Android Enthusiasts hit that many spam..?
 
@ArtOfCode What are the Y numbers?
 
@WELZ count
literally just numbers
 
CI on fa4bddb failed.
 
@WELZ N of posts flagged
 
@SmokeDetector what?
oh
ha ha "iterable" vs "iterator" ha ha funny ha
wheezes uncontrollably
 
5:14 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Good Euchre bidding strategy guide? by jalapeno on boardgames.SE
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer: Good Euchre bidding strategy guide? by Ralph on boardgames.SE
CI on 72c98d4 succeeded.
 
@tripleee try now
!!/pull
 
@ArtOfCode Maybe it'd be useful to add some TTD stats to the meta?
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 72c98d4 (quartata: not actually an iterator) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
Restart: API quota is 18720.
 
If MS went down, would all of the feedbacks stop getting recorded? What would happen?
 
@thesecretmaster everything would break, Smokey would die and the world would end :)
 
5:19 PM
except that doesn't happen
and we know that because it goes down like every month
 
@thesecretmaster failover would break
and we'd be switching instances every 7 minutes
 
That sounds scary.
 
...at least, that's what happened when MS kept going down a couple months ago
 
But you can just standby everything with an a in it. Then henders remains the only one running P:
 
Is that emoticon licking its lips?
 
5:24 PM
@Mithrandir that doesn't happen anymore
 
or wearing a cap
 
or rather
that only happens if it keeps coming back up
 
@Mithrandir Yeah, he had a jam sandwich for lunch and just can't get that last bit off his lip. He only made jam because he'd run out of ham and he spent the rest of the day being irritated about it and trying to buy some ham on the internet.
 
@Henders Hendars
 
@iBug Henders
 
5:25 PM
Just checked the flagging script and I'm doing around 100 a day at the moment :)
 
gives up
 
So, which one's gonna live if we stop all "E"s?
 
I think the slash is breaking it...
 
posted 44s ago
This message has been edited 4 times.
Fail.
 
Henders / EC2.
 
5:27 PM
It was supposed to be an A though :P
Oh look, he got the jam off his top lip now, at least.
 
Amazon Agricultural Compute Cloud.
 
tpu- by doppelgreener
 
Alastic Compute Cloud
 
@JakeSymons iBug with an interested look
 
@SmokeDetector fp
 
@iBug User removed from blacklist (14249 on boardgames.stackexchange.com).
 
@iBug why is @iBug speaking in the third person?
 
sd - k
 
@Inferno hello, haven't seen you here before :)
Are you a bot?
 
heh, that's quart's bot... one of them
 
6:01 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Which one is colder? Zero temperature ice or zero temperature water? by Tom Bradley on physics.SE
Restart: API quota is 18133.
 
sooo... what do y'all think is left to do before we post?
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 8149b39: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
@ArtOfCode autoflagging is still broken
although it breaks less frequently
 
@ArtOfCode: Why does SO have so many single flag posts? Especially compared to the first 3 (Ubuntu, Apple, GD)
 
Not essential to fix before we post, though. Should probably fix before we make changes, but we can post if it's still mostly-working
 
@Andy not a clue. Gonna guess manual flags
 
"we've flagged 66 posts that shouldn't have been" - Did we verify that? Was it 66 posts or 66 flags that were incorrect?
 
@SmokeDetector k
 
> we saw a significant jump in the time it took to delete spam
No, we saw a significant drop in the time it took.
 
6:13 PM
@Andy posts. That number's off the MS dashboard
 
> That's mostly down to users individually choosing to use a certainty threshold lower than the recommended settings, which are 100% accurate to the nearest 0.01% - that's up to individual users, but, again, all certainty thresholds must be above 99.5%.
I know what that means...but it's worded uninutively
 
@Andy it's less than a half post per site.
 
@WELZ That's fine. I'm just trying to verify numbers as I proofread
 
maybe we should include that (it's just over a third of a post per site)
 
No, not needed. Especially if those false positives are concentrated on only a couple sites. We'd just be misleading
Question about this graph: What's MSE all the way at the tail end? Do we really not autoflag stuff there that often?
Also... \o/ Community Building isn't at the bottom of a list
 
6:19 PM
@Andy That's MSO, not MSE?
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Способы восстановления поврежденных файлов Excel? by Павлик Мирный on ru.stackoverflow.com
 
@Catija D'oh.
 
MSE is on the first graph :)
MSO has literally one post on it
 
I failed reading today. Whoops
 
@Andy yup, couldn't think of a better way to word it... got any better ideas?
 
6:24 PM
> We allow users to set their specific flagging conditions, provided they don't go below our 99.5% certainty. We, however, recommend a higher value of X.XX%. Posts that fall between those two ranges will see more false positives.
?
Still not great, but maybe a little clearer?
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: Believability Weighted by Tim on ell.SE
 
@Andy that fall under X
 
> We allow users to set their specific flagging conditions, provided they don't go below our 99.5% certainty. We, however, recommend a higher value of X.XX%. People who set their conditions under X.XX% may see more false positives autoflagged using their accounts than those with a condition of X.XX% and over.
...or something like that
 
+1
immediately flags comment
 
6:31 PM
> We allow users to set their own flagging conditions, provided they don't go below our baseline 99.50% certainty. We recommend, however, a higher value that has a certainty of 100.00% - those who set their conditions below that are likely to see more false positives flagged using their account.
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: Relative carbon footprint of gas or electric heating (UK) by poo on sustainability.SE
 
make it 100.00% instead of 100% and it technically tells you the uncertainty without having to say it
 
works for me
 
@SmokeDetector tpu-
 
> Charcoal is a user-run organisation
Change that to
> Charcoal is a volunteer user-run organisation
?
 
6:36 PM
Charcoal isn't the volunteer
 
@iBug you never replied to my last message why did you have an interested look, was it something to do with the flagging?
 
"Voluntary"
 
> those are stats that jmac looked up for us last year
 
tpu- by Jake Symons
 
> those are stats that jmac (a former Community Manager for SE) looked up for us last year
jmac doesn't have anything in his profile or anything to indicate that he's a former CM.
> As I said earlier,
> As mentioned above,
 
6:40 PM
@Mithrandir done
 
What are we proofreading?
 
@ArtOfCode who's going to post this on meta, is it going to be you?
 
@JakeSymons shrug
 
gurhs
 
6:47 PM
I've got the Markdown source so it might make sense, but that's not exactly difficult to send to someone else
 
It depends on who wants to lose the most rep on meta with the down-votes :)
Or you may get a load of rep from up-votes, it could go either way
 
@ArtOfCode Who's Shrug?
@JakeSymons it won't be like that
@Henders hey, that's copy righted by me
It has a 97 percent chance of getting dozens of upvotes, and 3 percent chance of getting dozens of upvotes
 
@M.A.R. Yeah, I hope it gets a load of up-votes :)
 
@ArtOfCode can Undo post it, or is he busy being busy?
 
I have this cool add on that I have a free trial for to do spelling and stuff, that's what it says on the post ^
 
6:53 PM
@JakeSymons there are a few folks who don't like how powerful Charcoal is, so expect one or two downvotes for every 30 upvote.
 
@JakeSymons I'll tell you for free that there aren't 20 spelling errors in there
 
It probably doesn't recognize British spelling.
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 0296bd6: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 0296bd6: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
@Mithrandir All those extra "u"s
 
@Mithrandir or "autoflagging", or "SmokeDetector"
@Andy Would you like some? You seem to have lost yours, but I'm sure we can spare a few.
 
6:55 PM
Nope. Thanks though.
 
@ArtOfCode exactly! and it reckons organisation should have a z in it :)
 
@Andy I knouw, ight?
 
@JakeSymons yup, AmEng
shudder ;)
 
Doesn't it have settings?
Can't you set it to have a British moustache?
 
Or just post two versions with one labeled "TRANSLATION:"
 
6:57 PM
@M.A.R. I will have a look, that would help so much being British myself :)
I don't know why it didn't set it that way to start with
You have to pay to get British English :(
 
@ArtOfCode I believe you were involved in the last MSE post too. It should probably be someone that was involved in that, just for a bit more continuity.
Speaking of...that got a down vote that other day
 
@Andy I threw a bunch of comments around, yeah
Chief Comment Wrangler
 
Who here has got the most rep on meta? I know I come at the bottom of that list
 
Shog
 

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