Charcoal HQ

Actually, no I don't think that's what happened. I think 71 was the first one I made, then for some reason the checkbox for autoflagging wasn't sticking so I went through the wizard and deleted the second condition it made (72)

It could be that I deleted condition 70 and 71 is the condition from the wizard which I then edited

Undo

that'd make some sense.

SmokeDetector

12:47 AM

fp- by Gothdo

ArtOfCode

@quartata this looks right. 71 is the first one that has your name on it, and 72 doesn't exist, presumably because you deleted it

quartata

OK.

Phew.

ArtOfCode

@quartata 15 users with max rep > 1

quartata

Oh OK plenty for the spampocalypse

Undo

Nuked #70 manually

SmokeDetector

12:50 AM

New metasmoke user 'ravron' created

quartata

Uh, who reported that?

Undo

obvious troll attempt

quartata

Right, but it's not spam.

Undo

But you can see who by going to metasmoke or sd why

quartata

Oh yes, right. Forgot

Seth

12:53 AM

sd why

SmokeDetector

@Seth [:35617397] Post manually reported by user 4castle from metasmoke.

Seth

you can report manually through ms now?

Undo

automatic report from FDSC

@SmokeDetector f

quartata

FDSC wouldn't do that for a VLQ flag surely

Undo

FDSC only does that for spam flags

NobodyNada

12:55 AM

it does it for rude flags too, right?

Undo

Maybe

J F

@NobodyNada Yes

Gothdo

i.imgur.com/8ovdCxa.png What's that?

quartata

Unicode chars getting messed up.

Undo

(1) is probably a Unicode issue, (2) is us not rendering HTML entities properly.

doppelgreener

12:58 AM

@SmokeDetector Oh hi! Neat.

NobodyNada

Welcome, @doppelgreener!

quartata

ello ello ello

doppelgreener

@NobodyNada Thanks. :) I heard of Smokey a couple of weeks ago when we enabled it for the RPG.SE chat room. Still figuring out the personal participation side of it.

quartata

Speaking of which did that ever work

I didn't see it posting anything

ArtOfCode

It works, but RPG barely ever get spammed

doppelgreener

1:07 AM

@ArtOfCode Does Smokey respond instantly or does it take a few minutes before it evaluates & flags spam?

ArtOfCode

@doppelgreener it's not instant, but we usually report spam within a few seconds of it getting posted

NobodyNada

@doppelgreener API requests are batched to save quota, so there's often a few minutes between batches.

doppelgreener

We have a pretty consistent record of destroying spam within single-digit minutes, and our spam blocking mechanisms are quite strongly tuned to learn from what we flag.

Gothdo

I don't see sites that I joined after setting up flagging on the list.

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode I'm still not getting any emails from your blog

ArtOfCode

1:10 AM

@NobodyNada yeah, nor me. I have no idea why

doppelgreener

Most of our spam also follows one of three predictable patterns: people testifying about a voodoo priest spellcaster who can reunite you, the lucky reader, with their divorced husband; someone advertising that you can truly become a vampire via mail-order; and questions full of Korean text and links repeated 10-20 times.

I think it's just down to: we don't have much spam get through for it to see, and I bet we could give Smokey a run for its money on it detecting spam vs us already removing it.

(... we'd probably lose at least half the time, but still!!)

NobodyNada

Welcome, @hBy2Py!

hBy2Py

Woah, fast-welcome!

Hi!

reading Glorfindel's intro bit

So, has this been taken care of? Will Smokey eventually delete the chat post when it's gotten enough feedback?

quartata

That was a false positive.

Normally Smokey deletes posts marked as false positives

But it was older than 2 minutes so we can't.

Because chat.

hBy2Py

1:27 AM

Ahhk, got it. How many chatroom responses does Smokey wait for before taking action?

(or not)

quartata

Depends on what you mean by "taking action"

On a true positive it'll repost it to other rooms where it runs on the network

NobodyNada

If you mean autoflagging, it doesn't wait for a response.

quartata

If you mean autoflagging though that's different

That happens immediately given the right criteria

hBy2Py

I don't know what I mean, this is my first encounter with Smokey. :-D

@quartata Ahh - so that higher-rep users on the relevant sites can attack?

quartata

Actually so that it can just go away.

6 spam flags immediately deletes a post.

Although bringing it to the attention of mods is a plus too

hBy2Py

1:30 AM

Is there any initiation process to go through before participating in training Smokey?

ArtOfCode

@hBy2Py So Smokey has two functions: reports, and autoflagging. The MSE post you saw is about autoflagging, but Smokey also just posts reports of posts it thinks are spam but isn't confident enough to flag automatically into this chatroom. That lets whoever's here evaluate the post, and flag it as spam if necessary.

hBy2Py

<nod>, got that much.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer: Migrate Blog comments to Wordpress + Disqus by Alex on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)

quartata

The heck?

SmokeDetector

tpu- by ArtOfCode

NobodyNada

1:31 AM

@hBy2Py read this, then ask for privileges once you feel ready

quartata

Huh. That didn't onebox right.

Oh well.

hBy2Py

How did @Art communicate the tpu- here without typing into chat..?

quartata

@hBy2Py Because chat isn't the only place to submit feedback

ArtOfCode

there's actually a bunch of stuff that's useful to read, like the wiki pages on Privileges, Feedback Guidance, and Commands

quartata

You can also do it from the review queue on Metasmoke or via the API

The API lets userscripts submit feedback

NobodyNada

1:32 AM

We have a userscript called FDSC (Flag Dialog Smokey Controls) which automatically feedbacks when we flag

quartata

^

ArtOfCode

I was going to write an explanation, but they did it for me :)

hBy2Py

:-)

Lots of enthusiasm here, I like it

quartata

Any time you see "xyz by person" it's from Metasmoke.

ArtOfCode

tl;dr: I flag, FDSC takes that as an implicit "yes, that was spam", and tells metasmoke to record that I think it was spam. Metasmoke sends that back to chat so that people know about it, because otherwise it would bypass chat entirely.

hBy2Py

1:34 AM

<nod>

Well, cool, thanks for the welcome and the info, all. I may be back....

ArtOfCode

Anytime :)

NobodyNada

I hope to see you later!

quartata

github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/pull/539

Huh this seems pretty cool

I forgot Python had difflib

Very cool

Andy

:)

quartata

Oh right, that's you. Forgot.

Thomas Ward

1:46 AM

blah

quartata

?

NobodyNada

@ThomasWard \o

Thomas Ward

@Andy ohai

@quartata i'm weird, I make random posts/noise when I randomly appear from the darkness and shadowy mists

The room also gets a little darker too :P

@Andy is Docker good enough for you per @ArtOfCode's reply and other efforts on the GitHub, or do you prefer my approach?

o/ @NobodyNada

where's the coffee you told me you were going to get me :P

Andy

I hadn't seen your approach yet. I'm going to test dockers tomorrow and I can let you know

quartata

!!/coffee

SmokeDetector

1:48 AM

@quartata brews coffee for @quartata

quartata

Eh, good enough.

Thomas Ward

@Andy my approach is more or less the "Warn about git not being available in Windows, so don't support git functions and avoid the import failures"

untested but my Windows machine is kinda fubar right now so....

quartata

Could do Appveyor?

ArtOfCode

My friend @profkeithdevlin has reminded me that English is not the same as American. Here's an old guide to what we… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/834515307494531075

Tweeted by jackschofield on February 22, 2017 at 9:28 PM in reply to profkeithdevlin

Thomas Ward

@quartata special-case development-environment Windows weirdness

not something that'd be launched for a Production-level env.

Andy

1:49 AM

I will test your changes, but looking through the diff, I like how simple it seems

quartata

@ThomasWard Yeah, Appveyor is a Windows CI.

I don't mean to replace Circle

Just spin up an instance to test it real quick

Thomas Ward

@Andy well I stole some of my functionality from my lxc-bootstrap scripts, which use if 'linux' in str(platform.platform()).lower() to determine if we're on Linux or not, but... it should work. Hopefully. Again, untested.

Andy

@ArtOfCode TIL, I speak "british" at work

Thomas Ward

@quartata I believe you. I'm just not the one who determines what env. we test on.

And this is more or less for @Andy to be able to 'test run' things in Windows without failing on the import sh problems (since the sh module doesn't support Windows, and never will)

It also avoids using 'no longer maintained' libraries which was also @Andy's concern.

@Andy though, the SO python people said to use the library either way, instead of trying to create our own wrappers :P

Andy

Translation: Andy is a small pain in the backside

That jerk

ArtOfCode

1:53 AM

@Andy also known as "professional conduct"

Andy

@ThomasWard use the pbs one?

Thomas Ward

@Andy yup

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: How to call loadUrl on a local HTML text to render the html and Javascript? by Felipe Jordão A.P Mattosinho on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)

fp- by ArtOfCode

quartata

I would think the quote would make that not work

I suppose you ignore quotes though

@ArtOfCode Got the API calls I needed working

ArtOfCode

+1

quartata

1:57 AM

Although all I'm using is /api/posts/feedback/

So it should really be singular not plural

SmokeDetector

New metasmoke user 'Heptite' created

NobodyNada

Welcome, @BrianRogers!

quartata

I wonder if we'll get to double the amount of users by the end of the day

We were at 70 users before

We're at 117

So 23 to go

Brian Rogers

@NobodyNada thanks

Thomas Ward

@ArtOfCode Apparently, I have nothing better to do than to fix Windows sh warning things, and do random Python code reviews. I think I need to get a life heh.

quartata

2:02 AM

I hope this doesn't crash Metasmoke

ArtOfCode

@quartata 74 if we're being technical

Thomas Ward

@quartata if it does, we're screwed.

Royally lol.

quartata

I just realized that this was significantly more data than I thought.

I'll add a backoff of 10 seconds per request.

ArtOfCode

@quartata metasmoke's not a weakling. 2 seconds would probably be fine, to be honest

quartata

All right.

I'm pulling every tpu-'d post ever just so you know

I'll do 5 just to be extra considerate

ArtOfCode

2:04 AM

that's only 46k or so :)

460 requests

we've probably handled 5 times that this afternoon

quartata

Yeah I know but I noticed the MS profiler said 4000ms when I refreshed so

ArtOfCode

not always the most accurate thing, but fair enough

also: if you see a big peak in failures tomorrow, ping me. I have a script I can run to set people's conditions down to only the sites they have accounts on.

quartata

All right, better now hopefully.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted website in answer, pattern-matching website in answer, blacklisted user: How do probiotics work? by user8305 on health.SE

tpu- by quartata

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode ooh, we don't want that knocking the introduction off the top of the starboard

quartata

2:06 AM

@ArtOfCode I thought Smokey wouldn't make accounts when autoflagging

Yvette Colomb

@SmokeDetector why

SmokeDetector

Body - Position 534-552: dietary supplement
Body - Position 1601-1619: womenprobiotic.com
Body - Position 1606-1618: probiotic.co
Blacklisted user - blacklisted for //health.stackexchange.com/questions/11262 (https://m.erwaysoftware.com/posts/by-url?url=//health.stackexchange.com/questions/11262) by http:metasmoke

ArtOfCode

@SmokeDetector bah, already flagged

NobodyNada

@quartata it won't; that's why it might fail

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada it's still there

Yvette Colomb

2:07 AM

I don't think that was spam

Thomas Ward

@NobodyNada so we can removeify a post from the starwall :P

ArtOfCode

@YvetteColomb yeah, there was a spam link at the end of it

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode but not without clicking "show 9 more"

ArtOfCode

took me a moment, but it's there

@NobodyNada how small is your screen? I can get 10 starred messages on mine with spare space

quartata

@YvetteColomb Doesn't disclose affiliation.

Thomas Ward

2:08 AM

I see 8 with my screen so heh

quartata

Also the website was blacklisted anyways.

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode ah yeh, I just went through MS. I was reading the post and it was deleted before I could see the link

quartata

pew pew it's gone

NobodyNada

@ArtOfCode yeah, I see it in full screen

@quartata @Yvette that's the 3rd spam for that site today

Yvette Colomb

@quartata yep I had a look in MS. It was deleted so quickly I couldn't see the link :)

ArtOfCode

2:08 AM

also: I'm pretty sure the nuke on that post was 100% us

Yvette Colomb

@NobodyNada yep I'm up to speed now :D

quartata

@ArtOfCode It was autoflagged

Thomas Ward

wouldn't doubt it, @ArtOfCode lol

quartata

@SmokeDetector autoflagged?

SmokeDetector

@quartata That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: MAR, ArtOfCode, Floern.

quartata

2:09 AM

Cool beans.

ArtOfCode

@quartata aye, and there were at least two flags (FDSC) from humans

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode NOT a 100% us. You mean we are not the only people killing spam????

lol

quartata

@JF Problem with Coal: the cancel editing button is off screen

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode how dare the humans flag spam! :D

ArtOfCode

well, ya know, the communities occasionally get one or two flags in ;)

quartata

2:09 AM

On the default size

NobodyNada

There were 5 failures on that post

is that normal?

ArtOfCode

@quartata press Esc

quartata

@ArtOfCode I know but I like buttons

And it's rather awkwardly cut off - I can see just the top

but I can't click it

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode it's a good sign, it means the community is active

ArtOfCode

@NobodyNada ouch. Okay, some people's conditions need editing, and we need to change that to not be a failure

quartata

2:11 AM

@ArtOfCode Where can I see failures per post?

ArtOfCode

@quartata /flagging/logs, or per-post flag logs at /post/12345/flag_logs

NobodyNada

@quartata go to the post in MS and click the little flag next to the title

ArtOfCode

hey, at least it proves the try-fail-continue approach works

quartata

Doesn't say why it failed though

I suppose that's private

Since it gives away conditions and stuff

J F

@quartata Expand the window?

quartata

2:12 AM

ahahaha I love how the eligible flaggers are divided into "core" and "everyone else"

ArtOfCode

@quartata hover over Fail

NobodyNada

I have to go; see you later!

quartata

@JF I mean, I could do that :) But just letting you know since that was the default size

ArtOfCode

conditions aren't super-private, anyway, they just aren't very useful information to non-admins

quartata

@ArtOfCode "Flag options not present" I didn't think the wizard let you enable autoflagging without a condition?

ArtOfCode

2:14 AM

@quartata flag options, not flag condition. The SE API didn't return any flag options when we requested them, because the user didn't have an account to flag with.

quartata

Oh. Gotcha.

That's not a big deal.

Huh, I only have accounts on 46 communities. That's less than I thought

@ArtOfCode A button that disabled all sites you don't have accounts on would be nice

But it would need API access for hidden communities

Yvette Colomb

hm I notice I have no auto flags when I come on. There's a long break for hours. does it not auto flag until we do a manual flag for that day?

quartata

Has there ever been an fpu-?

ArtOfCode

@YvetteColomb gonna blame random distribution and the fact that we now have going on 60 flaggers for that

quartata

I can't imagine it but

ArtOfCode

2:16 AM

@quartata yes, but they're rare

quartata

@ArtOfCode What would they be for?

Trying to decide what class to put them in.

ArtOfCode

false positive, whitelist user

Yvette Colomb

@ArtOfCode ok then we'll blame random distribution and all these newcomers taking our autflags ;)

quartata

Ohh.

I thought it would be false positive, blacklist user

I suppose that makes no sense

ArtOfCode

so... legitimate user who has a username that happens to be caught in a blacklisted username - fpu says "false positive, and don't report any more of their posts just based on their username"

quartata

2:24 AM

@ArtOfCode So just to confirm

For false positives the only ones I need to check are fp, fp-, fpu, fpu-

For true positives tp, tp-, tpu, tpu-, trueu, trueu-

And for NAA naa, naa-

ArtOfCode

might also find a few falses in there

what are you trying to do here?

quartata

Building a corpus.

ArtOfCode

of...

quartata

Processed meat with delicious glaze

ArtOfCode

categorised, I assume

does it have to be right up to date?

'cuz if not, I can get you a sanitized SQL dump of the posts table

which has is_tp, is_fp and is_naa fields, precategorised

quartata

2:26 AM

I mean no but that would probably be just as much effort to parse as this

@ArtOfCode /posts/feedback does give that but

ArtOfCode

what format do you need it in?

quartata

Obviously I have to pick the feedback first

Yvette Colomb

InternetUnexplorer is that the anti-IE?

quartata

@ArtOfCode I mean ultimately JSON with a dictionary mapping sequences of word-word cooccurrence vectors to one of the three classes. I don't think you want to do that though :P

Just the post text to the class is sufficient but I'd rather do it myself since ultimately one of us will end up wasting time on it

And I already wrote code

ArtOfCode

I can do a SELECT body FROM posts WHERE is_tp = 1; if you like

export that as headerless CSV and bingo

quartata

2:30 AM

Would it be small enough to fit in a pastebin?

(or gist)

ArtOfCode

possibly

bwDraco

Matching words to spam?

ArtOfCode

lemme try it

quartata

@bwDraco Yeah. Making a magic 8-ball.

also known as a convolutional neural network

I know you guys have done ML before but I can't resist

@ArtOfCode Actually it would be best if you did the false positives first

Since those are the least common I want to limit the other 2 to that size

I could just weight the training but

Actually that would be better

There are less false positive examples than I thought

ArtOfCode

@quartata apparently it fits in a gist. click this link if you like crashing browsers

quartata

2:35 AM

Actually mine took it like a champ

but thanks for the warning

And thanks for the contents of it obviously :P

ArtOfCode

I also have tps, which is literally 30MB of the worst of the Internet. Let's see if GitHub ban me, shall we

quartata

Oh no no no

I hadn't thought of that

OK let's not do this

ArtOfCode

meh, it's unlikely. I'm more wondering if just pasting it into the text field is going to crash my browser

...which is entirely possible, it's now taken over a minute to start pasting

quartata

Hm, I just realized that 46,000 * 2 seconds is about a day

So maybe this is the best way

ArtOfCode

only 460 requests, though, at 100/req

quartata

2:39 AM

Oh yes right.

durr

ArtOfCode

never know, you might get there before I finish pasting it into a text field

quartata

Oh I have the code just not running it

ArtOfCode

I may be able to email you the file, if my server lets me upload 30MB in one go

quartata

If this is causing your browser physical anguish then don't botber

And no definitely don't email me a 30 MB file

ArtOfCode

see that's the thing, the tab's not crashing or anything, it's just... not doing anything

quartata

2:43 AM

I'll just roll with the API since 460*2/60 is 15 minutes

I've done scrapes that took much much longer

ArtOfCode

\o/ I managed to get GitHub to give me a 405 Not Allowed error :D

Thomas Ward

lol

quartata

How far back do the MS archives date back anyways

ArtOfCode

going on 2 years

58k posts, probably 1 year 7-8 months

quartata

Why does SE attract particularly dumb spam? The fact that they can figure out how to post would make you think they could do better

ArtOfCode

2:49 AM

shrug

quartata

@ArtOfCode a webhook for when something is reported would be awesome

ArtOfCode

@quartata 50k lines at a time (just concat the files): 0, 1, 2, 3, 4

quartata

oh dear

ArtOfCode

@quartata there's a websocket, no webhook

quartata

I think this is the first time I've thanked someone for spam

@ArtOfCode link?

ArtOfCode

2:54 AM

@quartata "somewhere in the API docs"

github.com/Charcoal-SE/metasmoke/wiki/WebSocket-API, may or may not have what you need

quartata

only sends feedback :(

ArtOfCode

can probably be poked to send reports too. I can do it tomorrow, if you drop an issue on GH that says what you need in the reports

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer, link at end of answer: Multiple Permalinks for Same Post by San Sun on wordpress.SE

tpu- by Yvette

Yvette Colomb

I view this as a thank you excuse to advertise ergo spam — Yvette Colomb 11 secs ago

SmokeDetector

3:23 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with a link in answer: php form email not sending when action = submit to self by phuc bui on stackoverflow.com (@dorukayhan)

fp- by 4castle

quartata

Offensive username. Needs a mod flag.

or I could just ping @Undo

ArtOfCode

3:45 AM

Sounds like a valid Vietnamese name to me

quartata

Really? I'm not an expert on that language but say it out loud

ArtOfCode

I know what it sounds like, and yes it could be a troll. It could also very easily be legit.

quartata

Eh OK

...I feel bad now. Quick google confirms that

An unfortunate lack of accent marks

(in their spelling that is)

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, repeated URL at end of long post: How Does Aurora Deep Sea Reverse Aging Signs by amondjuri on gaming.SE

Yvette Colomb

@SmokeDetector k

quartata

3:57 AM

sd autoflagged?

SmokeDetector

@quartata [:35620456] That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: Cerbrus, NobodyNada, avery.

quartata

Something I thought of is that if a user posts x (2-3) or more tp'd posrs we could automatically raise a mod flag

in hopes that they'll nuke it

Thomas Ward

@quartata by that point it'll already have brought other attention down upon them behind the scenes

Transcript for