That's why I was saying make it martial

When an item is so good that it's the only thing in the pareto frontier for any given class, it's too strong.

There is no reason for anyone to NOT have a spiked gauntlet

@Axoren That's just realistic, though

IRL you should always wear a spiked gauntlet

It's the Pot of Greed problem.

@Axoren What does Pot of Greed do? /s

If you're not running a Pot of Greed in your deck, you're playing the game wrong.

If you're not wearing a spiked gauntlet, you're playing D&D wrong.

Unless there's a drawback to the Spiked Gauntlet, I wouldn't let it count as an open hand.

Well I directed OP here, before realizing you all were already discussing spiked gauntlets lol

fair

Well, Spiked, Bladed, whatever.

we'll see if they come in.

DAMAGE FISTS aren't really balanced as is

A conventional gauntlet is part of a suit of armor, and a spiked gauntlet is just that + spikes

But given that the designers considered spiked armor and limited to a very niche option, I'm wary about expanding that.

What if I make my spiked gauntlets just 1 + STR piercing (like unarmed strike)

If a spiked gauntlet = not a free hand, then a regular gauntlet also = not a free hand, and knights can't carry weapons

@DavidCoffron Then what's the point? Damage type conversion?

@Axoren THinking more, it's sort of combining Tavern Brawler Feat into a single weapon as well.

@Axoren And it is a melee weapon for features where that is relevant (or enchantments)

@SPavel The idea is that if you've got protruding spikes/blades it might make it harder to hold something that requires non-protruding things from getting in the way

wait a minute.... I just realized.... I don't know where the spikes are on a spiked gauntlet

is it like wolverine claws?

They're on the back of the hand, but that can often screw with using a bow, which was an example above.

So yeah, like wolverine claws

Pardon my French

This is the archetypical one I've seen

I've never seen the spikes all along the sides.

Only on the knuckles

@Axoren IRL same, but in fantasy settings I've seen plenty with it down the side

Battlerager armor is described as "It consists of a leather coat and leggings covered with spikes that are usually made of metal."

In terms of realism, you can definitely use something like that and a weapon or grapple.

But in terms of balance, it becomes a "Why aren't you using this?"

@NautArch Yeah, before he made a bunch of edits, I was going to suggest just going with Battlerager and including gauntlets in the armor, but then he brought up dandwiki so now I'm just waiting for clarification before I undelete

@Axoren Yeah, there really is no downside and only upsides.

@DavidCoffron You don't need to 'include' gauntlets. The armor already has a mechanic for damage. Just like how 5e doesn't really differentiate between different bits of armor.

@NautArch I mean in the description of the armor. It doesn't include gauntlets according to the description but you can easily reflavor it

Honestly, "my hands are busy so I kick him in the face" is such a common adventure trope that IMO it shouldn't need any special ability. The trade-off is that it's not as good as a "real" melee weapon.

(a club or sickle is not a real melee weapon)

@SPavel In Dungeons of Dredmore, Unarmed Strikes are done with the feet exclusively.

Because they don't use your arms.

Oh that''s why

I never thought about that

@SPavel There is a mechanic called unarmed strike that allows this

@DavidCoffron Ah, gotcha. Yeah, you can reflavor a description :)

Sickles and Clubs are definitely real melee weapons

They're specifically items that you can give every combat NPC to punish your party with sub-par loot.

@Axoren A sickle is pretty much the definition of an improvised melee weapon

@SPavel However, you can add your Proficiency

"Hey peasant, get in, we're invading Jerusalem"

LOL

5e rarely has things that are just outright better overall.

What a bandwagoner

Like Spellcasting Focus vs. Component Pouch

@Axoren Or just discourage loooting in the game world. Is it really realistic to show up to a town with a dozen rusted/worn out short swords and expect someone to buy them?

Who hasn't invaded Jerusalem

The new thing is invading Rome

@DavidCoffron Yes, in medieval times.

@DavidCoffron tell that to any Elder Scrolls Player EVER

@DavidCoffron if for no other reason, than scrap steel

A Spellcasting Focus is specific to a set of classes as is more expensive or cheaper depending on which classes can use it. For a multi-classer you want the Spellcasting focus which works for all your classes.

@Helwar I never did mass looting in elder scrolls, but thats bc I actually RP even in my SP VG RPGs

Or you want a sack of Bat Guano that works for everyone

@DavidCoffron I RP a LOT. My character was unintentionally a clepto... I vividly remember painfully walking down the side of the mountain form the greybeards thingamajig to whiterun

had to sell all the cups, pots, forks, and plates

@Axoren One time I made a Druid that only used official material components (full naturale)... I ended up just not preparing spells with material costs so I didnt have to deal with it lol

Even building my most recent character, I was still choosing between like 4 different weapons and weighting the pros and cons of one weapon or another.

Daggers? Shortswords? Rapiers? Longswords?

@Axoren The answer is handaxe. Always go handaxe

@DavidCoffron Honestly, that one almost took the place of the Dagger

Slashing vs. Piercing, it was a close call

@DavidCoffron This is D&D, think outside the box. Get some foot-axes, knee-axes, affix braid-axes to your hair

I think slashing is better than piercing (nets, rugs). Dagger is mostly pointless when you have handaxes (pun intended)

Some wizard out there will graft mouth-axes to your teeth

@DavidCoffron It's harder to palm a Handaxe through a guard checkpoint, though.

And you can't cut yourself free with handaxes as easily.

@Axoren can you palm a dagger? They are 8-12 inches. A small knife sure, but a dagger?

@DavidCoffron Every time I hear that ping, I expect the number to keep getting smaller.

Lol

But yeah, you can palm daggers easily.

@DavidCoffron Hey baby, is that a dagger in your pocket, or are you provoking an attack of opportunity?

Because they're thin, you can hide them behind your arm.

vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd4/images/c/c3/XH2043N-1000.jpg/…

How are you going to easily hide that in the same way?

@Axoren that makes sense if the guards don't care that much (mine always do full checks if anything). A handaxe can be disguised as a tool (hatchet) more easily

Just depends on the circumstances

@DavidCoffron If you walk into the Governor's Mansion with a Sledgehammer or a Fire Axe, you're not going to make it very far.

I guess you could walk into a town with both

But why wouldn't the security guards "pat you down" for hidden things like a palmed dagger

But you're generally going to have an easier time hiding weapons than disguising them

@DavidCoffron or they do but you have sleight of hand + 3000

@DavidCoffron The great thing about palming an item is that if you're very well-trained in Sleight of Hand, it doesn't matter how thorough you're patted down.

Meh. Pact of the Blade is the best way

@DavidCoffron Throw the Blade in the bucket, walk through the checkpoint, summon another Blade.

Then proceed to dump blade after blade on the floor while making eye contact with the guards to assert dominance.

Give a man a blade, and he'll be armed for a day. Teach a man to make blades through a fell pact with eldritch entities beyond the veil, and he'll arm a peasant uprising and perpetuate the cycle of violence for a lifetime.

Guess Eros isn't rising into this chat.

@SPavel it's easier to teach him how to punch and let him become the weapon

@Helwar You can't have a peasant uprising with kung fu

They tried it in East Asia and it never worked for thousands of years

They did?

@Helwar Tae Kwon Do is a peasant's martial art, for example - and a fat lot of good that's done for Korea

@NautArch I just got that pun.

Awful.

@SPavel There was the Boxer's Rebellion :P

Still it's a fantasy world. Kung fu rising isn't that far fetched

@Axoren still don't get it

@DavidCoffron Ah yes, the rebellion that failed horribly and condemned all of China to a century of humiliation

@SPavel shhh. It was about the pun

@Axoren sorry, was a late gamenight last night :P

ah

@DavidCoffron It's not a pun, it's called the Boxer Rebellion in the West specifically because the rebels were martial artists

@SPavel Oh. I missed that part...

I thought there was some leader named Boxer ('assumptions make an...')

@SPavel I guess you are right though. It's easier to summon a Baatezu, and ask the would-be-rebels to form a line to sign pacts with it. Insta warlock-army

@Helwar Is a Baatezu powerful enough to make Warlock pacts?

@Helwar Careful, that's how you get a cult

@DavidCoffron Depends on the fiend, "baatezu" is a category and not a type

Why would rebels were boxing gloves, though? Wouldn't that make it harder to hurt people?

An imp is a baatezu but not powerful enough to grant a warlock pact probably

@DavidCoffron Baatezu is a species of demon, a Lemures i guess won't be able to... but anything higher... yes. Especially if you only want low lvl warlocks xD

@Axoren Boxing gloves are a modern invention

Should there be a level limit for warlocks with weaker Patrons? lol

@SPavel What did they do before Boxing gloves?

Was it actually boxes?

@Axoren Punched each other in the face

With fists

Like men

I don't know what I expected.

But I think it involved boxes

@Axoren Read more here

Boxing gloves were created to limit damage to fragile bones in your hands

Can we VTC for either too broad or unclear on the bladed gauntlet question?

maybe that will nudge them

@NautArch unclear is best. I think there is a good question (or forum discussion) there somewhere, but not yet

@DavidCoffron that was my VTC reason

On a slightly related note: can we just burninate dandwiki. It is annoying

(I know we can't, but still)

@DavidCoffron I hate when I google something and it appears on the first link >_<

@Helwar some quality SEO right there.

@Helwar I just don't know why it is so popular. So much of the homebrew in it are so obviously ridiculous

But I will say, it is my go to for 3.5 SRD

I dunno, when and if I post homebrew, I do it on a forum (or here) where I can get my peers to check it for loopholes or imbalances. Posting on a Pseudo-Wiki gives me nothing...

I feel compelled by some of you to show my face, how's it going

@Helwar dndbeyond has some good ones. I'd probably publish there if I wanted to

@ErosRising Howdy! Glad you hopped in :)

@NautArch you can stop the ritual summoning, it already worked :)

There's a couple of ways to address your question. But I think the best is to ask you what your ultimate goal in terms of Actions in combat is (rather than asking if a certain solution will work.)

^ that

@Helwar I thought I needed to say their name three times?

(almost ninja'd me)

@NautArch Hey, i see this sparked some debate!

so, core&context; I'm trying to emulate how i fight (i do 17th century reenactments) but a bit more badass. Using a spear to hold off distant foes, then go in and grapple/punch afterwards.

@ErosRising Well a spear is not a reach weapon in 5e so you might want to use a different weapon for that part... Lance maybe.

@DavidCoffron Or Halberd (lances get wonky when not mounted) @ErosRising

@ErosRising what class are you?

@ErosRising (I used to do "ancient" fencing (Meaning, not the olimpic thing with the bendy pokers))

@DavidCoffron is pike a standard weapon? spear is my closest approximation, but this one's 18ft long

Are we allowed to link 5etools here?

@ErosRising that is the lance weapon in 5e

Nevermind, it's still down.

@NautArch im going for barbarian

..

@ErosRising Do you have Sword's Coast Adventurer's Guide

@Axoren (and I believe the answer is no anyways actually)

@DavidCoffron ah lets assume i'm using a lance from now then. I dont currently no

Lance basically is two handed reach weapon (attack at 10 feet) that is 1 handed when mounted but you have disadvantage within 5 feet

They're all pretty much just Glaive Reskins or Lance Reskins

@ErosRising Okay, so something to consider then: You'll only start with one attack, but will get Extra Attack later at level 5. But that's still just two attacks you've generally got (plus your bonus action.) If you're goal is to be able to attack with a reach weapon and then follow up by getting in close, have you looked at the Battlerager Barbarian in SCAG?

Lance being one that can be used one-handed on a Mount.

Glaive being one that's always two-handed, but can attack adjacent squares

@NautArch Is Battlerager in Xanathar's? thought it was SCAG.

@DavidCoffron Should be SCAG

@ErosRising This might not be of much help, but I'll advise you against trying to emulate anything real in D&D. It doesn't work, ever. In reality, your spear+punch in the face sounds great, mechanically it doesn't look like it would work in D&D :S If you have 2 attacks, why owuld you punch when you can strike again with the more damaging lance? And if they get in close quarters, you can drop the lance for free and draw a non-reach weapon, for free, and then attack...

@ErosRising But if your goal is to attack and then follow up up with a close action punch/grapple - have you looked at the SHield Master feat?

@ErosRising You can hold, but not fight with, a two-handed melee weapon in one hand.

So, you'll have a hand free to use your off-hand for something if you want.

@Axoren @DavidCoffron My bad, fixed.

In the case of throwing the polearm aside, you'll have both hands free

If you want something balanced for play, a reskin of a dagger for a spiked gauntlet will occupy a hand, but it won't occupy both

So you should be able to grapple

@Helwar Very much this. Trying to use D&D as an [insert literally anything] simulator is going to end in tears and frustration.

Nevermind on Shieldmaster and battlerager, they both use your bonus action :(

@Rubiksmoose Literally anything? D&D is a great RPG simulator

But simply battlerager may be what you're looking for @ErosRising

@DavidCoffron But it's a terrible substitute for Cooking Mama

@ErosRising Do note, that NautArch recommending the Battlerager comes with the requirement that you MUST be a dwarf.

@Axoren /me ponders making a cooking mama campaign. immediately realizes it was a bad idea

@DavidCoffron hah! Well you got me there.

You can go in with your standard weapon attack (maybe even two), then follow up with the bonus action battlerager armor damage OR you can choose to grapple with an attack and deal extra damage.

I'll look into battlerager as that seems to have been dropped a few times now

@Axoren (DM can wave that for their own setting)

However, since you were already trying to integrate homebrew, your DM might allow you to be adopted.

@DavidCoffron Was getting to that

ah, i was originally going for a goliath grappling build

@DavidCoffron It would be fabulous