TRPG General Chat

trogdor

12:02 AM

@nitsua60 you are best sheep

Mana Mana do doo do do do

nitsua60

@trogdor mana mana doot do doot do

trogdor

Mananana na na na na, Mana na nananana, bootydedoo buh,.... Na... Mana Mana

nitsua60

12:17 AM

We should start a band. We can do Near, Far! next =)

BESW

Do you do requests? I'd like "An Old-Fashioned Love Song."

trogdor

12:33 AM

We do requests, but only during Ragnarok

Which means you either have to wait for real Ragnarok or just start watching Thor Ragnarok

Either works

Rubiksmoose

@trogdor To be fair Thor Ragnarok is definitely worth a watch lol

trogdor

I agree

It's my second favorite of the Marvel movies

Rubiksmoose

@trogdor Having just watched through most of the good ones, it is definitely up there.

Ragnarok, Homecoming are probably among top 3

trogdor

Which is weird considering I didn't like the first Thor movie as much as most, and never saw Dark World but heard bad things about it

Black Panther is only just above Ragnarok for me

Rubiksmoose

oh yes BP for sure probably rounds out top 3

trogdor

12:47 AM

Infinity War is third if only because it went almost exactly the direction I wanted it to go

Besides,.... A couple things I think they could have left out or done better

Homecoming was better than I felt it had a right to be for sure

Just because,... Oversaturation on Spiderman on the market

Rubiksmoose

Soooo much better than other spiderman movies and I loved that the actor was so perfect in age and build and attitude.

trogdor

I agree

I just meant I was surprised

Because we had several Spiderman movies and a couple reboots

And some of them were acceptable but none of them were necessarily great

Yuuki

I like that they skipped a whole bunch of things because we've seen so many Spider-Man movies.

trogdor

That is good practice yeah

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki So happy they skipped the whole origin deal. Its only been rehashed like 5 times on the big screen.

trogdor

12:57 AM

I feel like it would have been easy for them to decide to just go through the motions again

Yuuki

It seems like Marvel understands that the best way to make money off an expansive franchise is to make good (or at least not terrible) films.

glares at DC

trogdor

Lol

Yuuki

I mean, making a terrible film is fine for a one-off because it's not like a bad reputation will do anything to you.

trogdor

DC'S biggest problem, in my opinion, is that they feel the need to rush right to where Marvel took years to get to

Yuuki

But the lukewarm reception for Man of Steel (which I actually kinda liked) and poor reviews for BvS and Suicide Squad ruined any possible "well, I liked the other movies" appeal that Justice League could've taken advantage of.

Rubiksmoose

1:01 AM

Yeah they really need to get their act together from what I've heard.

I've not actually seen any of the DC movies for several reasons but significantly because the reviews were not hot.

trogdor

I didn't watch any of those movies

I only went to see Wonder Woman

Rubiksmoose

Oh man I do need to see that.

trogdor

Which as it turned out I liked

But it can't carry everything else on its back

XD

Yuuki

Time between Iron Man and The Avengers was 4 years and the time between Man of Steel and Justice League was 3 years. But the other thing is that there were 5 movies leading up to The Avengers.

Whereas Justice League had 4 movies leading to it and one of them wasn't even related at all (Suicide Squad).

trogdor

I didn't only mean time

Yuuki

1:03 AM

So really they only had 3 movies building up for Justice League.

Not to mention the main characters in The Avengers that didn't have solo films (Black Widow and Hawkeye) made appearances in other films (Iron Man 2 and Thor).

Whereas Aquaman, the Flash, and Cyborg didn't appear in any of the other films leading up to Justice League.

trogdor

Number of movies and actual level if audience approval would have been good to look at

Also, DC had an advantage starting out that Marvel didn't, specifically that Marvel proved it could work

Yuuki

They had basically short-cut through three origin movies for the characters that the audience didn't know whereas The Avengers could basically jump straight into plot.

trogdor

Well also,... I heard they tried to roll stuff back from Batman vs Superman in Justice League

But apparently executed that badly

And I hear rumor they are trying to reboot again in universe with Flash

If so,.... I are disappoint

It just doesn't seem like the right way to approach things

BESW

1:26 AM

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Tweeted by EvilHatOfficial on May 21, 2018 at 6:13 PM in reply to EvilHatOfficial

nitsua60

2:23 AM

What's the term for the opposite of a trap option? I feel like there's something other than "must-have" in the lingo?

BESW

In 4e, there's the "feat tax."

nitsua60

Yeah, that may be what I'm thinking of.

BESW

That is, every character needed to take one of two very boring feats by about level 6 or so in order for their attack numbers to stay where they should. A lot of GMs just gave everyone a free extra feat slot to make up for it. Then Wizards later released a whole bunch of feats which were basically good feats that also had the effect of those original feats.

Which basically baked the "free slot" fix into the game itself, but only halfway so because you were locked into a particular interesting feat effect based on what kind of weapon or implement you wielded.

Like, they're usually something a person with that item choice would find useful, but it dis-incentivizes creative builds that wouldn't find those extra effects useful but need the numerical bonus anyway.

trogdor

Yeah I personally disliked that because feat choices are the biggest way to change what your character does in 4e

BESW

Like, there's a feat that most monks want to take which only works if you're carrying a sling.

And you can use a sling as a weapliment.

nitsua60

2:38 AM

<cough>sorry, a what?

BESW

But the Sling Expertise feat which gives you the +1/2/3 to attack that you need... says that ranged and area attacks with a sling don't provoke opportunity attacks.

If a monk is making ranged or area attacks that provoke opportunity attacks in the first place... I want to know how.

trogdor

@nitsua60 his term for an implement that can also be used as a weapon

Or vis versa

Because 4e makes a distinction between the two but also has things that count as both

BESW

@nitsua60 In 4e, attack powers use either weapons or implements depending on your class. They're items that can be enchanted with bonuses to attack and damage numbers, and may have extra riders as well. Weapons are, like, a bow or a glaive or a longsword. Implements are a cleric's holy symbol or a wizard's staff or a monk's ki focus.

nitsua60

Gotcha.

(One of these days I'm going to crack open that 4e book I bought last month.)

BESW

But sometimes you can get weapons that are ALSO useable as implements, like a wizard who uses staves can use a quarterstaff as an implement. Which lets you apply weapon enchantment effects to implement powers, which is awesome.

trogdor

2:42 AM

Yeah, it's pretty cool

BESW

Monks are especially good options for complicated weapliment optimization, depending on how your GM rules some of their more confusing rules.

trogdor

Monks are freaking weird

BESW

Monk powers have the implement keyword, but there are builds which use weapons a lot anyway.

And there's options to use your fists as weapons but treat them as if they were using your implement enchantment, which is downright unusual.

trogdor

I don't like having to make calls about what monks can do

BESW

Hey, if you wanna just let me decide what my monk can do, I'm cool with that.

[innocent]

trogdor

2:45 AM

It's the kind of don't like that I know I have to do anyway yes

You sneak

BESW

(The point of a monk using a sling is that there's a feat which lets them hit someone 10 squares away without provoking opportunity attacks. So most monks just carry a sling in one hand and their actual weapliment in the other. The sling doesn't even have to be loaded and being magical doesn't have any effect if you're not using it except to trigger the feat.)

BESW

3:24 AM

Ursula Vernon is playing GURPS:

ME: I roll 3 1's. GM: Wait, I think that's a crit. ME: Yay? GM: ...I have a table for that. *time passes*

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 22, 2018 at 2:45 AM in reply to UrsulaV

Also:

ASSASSIN: IF THEY DON'T HAVE HEADS, HOW HAVE I BEEN CUTTING THEIR HEADS OFF TO PUT IN MY BAG?! DRUID: I HAVE BEEN WONDERING THAT MYSELF! PALADIN: Maybe we should convert the spider... DRUID: I use my naturalist skill to determine the spider's religion. GM: REALLY?!

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 22, 2018 at 2:33 AM in reply to UrsulaV

trogdor

Crit time passes?

That seems both lame and awesome

BESW

> You rolled three criticals in a row. You enter bullet time. Your theme song is now "The Ballad of Barry Allen."

trogdor

Yes but, time passes is a horrible way to describe it

Because that could mean you crit and,.. nothing but the passing of time that normally occurs happens as result

BESW

Of course, the original tweet is just saying that it's taking the GM a long time to look up the GURPS crit tables.

trogdor

Oh

Ok

That is in line with everything I hear about Gurps

BESW

4:39 AM

> Concept: Enigmatic genius
Gimmick: Mastermind of every crime
Grudge: You won't admit I'm better

trogdor

5:00 AM

Moriarty?

BESW

5:14 AM

Yeah.

> Vengeance Magic. You can spend a fate point on another character's consequence to place an aspect on someone responsible for the consequence. You get a number of free invokes on that aspect equal to the value of the consequence you invoke.

trogdor

Ooooh

I like that one

Very flavorful

BESW

> Reflection. Whenever an attack against you succeeds with style, you may place a boost on the attacker.

Axoren

9:43 AM

I might have found a game with a DM that will let me Multiclass Elven Mystic 4/Champion 3

I'd be producing an Aura of Mandatory Reckless Attack, but I'd also be providing Disadvantage to attacks against not-me within 5 ft. to enemies.

Which means I'd always have advantage, which means I get the 19-20 Threat 3d20kh1 dream

The character is essentially a TWF Crit machine that yells "FACE ME, COWARDS"

BESW

10:24 AM

Nice. I'm pretty happy with my monk that can do close burst 1 or close blast 3, both friendly, slide every hit target 3 squares, and provided at least one target is hit make one target within 10 squares unable to shift. He's designed to shove everyone up against the fighter for maximum mark punishment.

Axoren

Monks will always be the best controllers.

They're awesome and yours sounds great.

The main problem is that building past level 7, my Mystic has too many options

I'm thinking Mantle of Joy to have a "marching powder" effect of giving the party temp HP.

BESW

I... kinda want my monk to have at least three weapons.

Axoren

Spear, Shuriken, Fist?

BESW

Bah, fists are awful for monks unless you dedicate your whole build to 'em.

Axoren

Guan Dao Hellebarde Chen Style Taiji

►

BESW

10:33 AM

I want a spear with the enchantment that lets me teleport the fighter from near me up to adjacent to the target I hit.

I want a sling so I can use my Flurry of Blows on a target 10 squares away.

And I want a quarterstaff to use as my implement for all other attacks because I can use it to get +2 to defenses against ranged attacks and keeps my granting combat advantage from giving a +2 to attacks against me, in every round I hit with any attack.

BESW

11:02 AM

...actually, technically I don't have to use the sling OR the staff as my implement, I can just hold them. And ki focuses don't take up a hand slot.

So I could wield two weapons and an implement, with a third weapon for my opening move.

Have I mentioned that monks are kinda wonky?

At level 11 there's another feat that makes a shuriken/sling combo desirable.

Miniman

@BESW Starblade Flurry?

BESW

Aye.

And Skipping Stone Flurry.

Skipping Stone lets you use one of your existing flurries against a target 10 squares away; Starblade adds an extra flurry against a target 5 squares away.

So with both, you've got two ranged flurries and a melee flurry each round at level 11.

Sdjz

11:42 AM

@doppelgreener regarding this question I noticed you reopened it. I am not necessarily agreeing/disagreeing but can you explain the reasoning behind this for future reference?

BESW

Looks to me like they clarified the question from "I'd be happy to have any comment or feedback about my ideas, and to read any other mechanics that you may imagine!" which is far too vague and broad for the Stack to handle constructively, to "what would happen if I put an Immovable Rod (or in general an object) into a closing portal?" which is very much within the Stack's ability to handle.

Sdjz

@BESW This is along the lines of what I was thinking. That being the case, the closing before the edits would then seem appropriate which was what I was not 100% sure about.

BESW

The Stack doesn't do open-ended brainstorming or speculation on a theme, it does actionable solutions to problems.

The further from actionable solutions to problems answers will get, the more rigidly we have to enforce content policies up to and including closure.

I can't speak for Greener, of course, but that's my (unsolicited) take on the situation.

Sdjz

While we are on the topic, is there a guideline on how soon we should vote to close a question when no game/edition is specified? Do we give the poster some time to clarify first?

BESW

Close it immediately.

Vote on what exists, not on what we hope will exist.

2

So when it gets clarified, vote to re-open it!

[rummages for meta explanation]

Sdjz

11:59 AM

@BESW this makes a lot of sense, thanks!

BESW

1

Q: Closing questions instead of fixing really minor issues

Specifically, this one: How should I handle the rest of my party, who believe all Necromancy must be evil? There is no other rpg system that I am aware of that uses those terms - '9th level' 'wizard' 'necromancy being automatically evil' 'Good, Evil, Neutral' 'Alignments' 'knowledge skill' 'rank...

Rel🐘:

goodguy5

morning nerds

BESW

12:18 PM

@KorvinStarmast Due to a quirk in the way the review queue works, it's not best practices to edit an on-hold question if the edit doesn't address the reason it's on hold: the first edit made to an on-hold question pumps it back into the review queue, but subsequent edits do not. So if the first edit doesn't address the hold reason....

(In reference to this question.)

SPavel

@BESW That doesn't seem like a very good design

BESW

Take it up with our Stack Overlords. I'm guessing they encountered abusable scenarios and this is a fix to prevent them from recurring.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Thanks for that insight; I have a hard time resisting the urge to edit sloppily written prose. I'll do my best to resist ...

d20

Dice Service

18

KorvinStarmast

OK, made the save so far.

BESW

12:31 PM

Yeah, we're being pushed to prioritize having all the info over making incomplete info pleasant to read.

(If the querent never returns to add their edition/system, your edit didn't actually improve the quality of the site's usable content.)

KorvinStarmast

Perhaps I should just down vote and move on, which is an SE best practice. I will guess that reverting does nothing to change the review queue thing?

BESW

I doubt it.

nitsua60

@BESW I'm tempted to (retroactively) dupe-close that meta you linked, pointing it toward the "should we guess at system tags?" meta. On second thought, maybe I'll just throw a "related:" comment on there.

BESW

Personally I tend not to downvote posts by new users that need trivial fixes, but that falls under "there are no up/downvote police (unless you spamvote hard enough that the bots notice)."

(And honestly it's mostly about me being too lazy to keep an eye on the post so I can revert the vote later.)

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 since I don't have XGTE handy at the moment, I can't even guess what invocation he's talking about, nor read up on the one he has referred to. So we check and see later if they care enough to come back and engage productively.

BESW

12:40 PM

@nitsua60 Thank you, that's the one I was actually looking for but my search-fu is taking a week off for bad behavior.

KorvinStarmast

@Axoren Is that the 5e UA Mystic, or a 4e build?

doppelgreener

@Sdjz I reopened it for the reasons @BESW stated, they hit the nail on the head.

BESW

@KorvinStarmast 4e doesn't have such a thing as choosing how many levels you take in a given class.

You have one or two primary classes, a paragon path and an epic destiny which each add their own features on top of continued class progress, and optionally a multiclass with a variable number of feats invested in it. Only the multiclass option has a player-chosen variable amount of investment in the class progression; the others are all pre-determined.

NautArch

i'm not sure if this is for Meta, but I had thought that opinion-based answers needed to be supported by actual tableplay?

BESW

What prompted this? It's useful to examine the specific case.

Opinion needs to be supported, but what qualifies as support varies depending on the subject the opinion's being given on.

NautArch

12:52 PM

@BESW This ranged divine smite question and the answers by @nitsua60 and Kadin. There is another answer which gives experience as support (and is highest rated), and a final answer that is in the same vein as the first two (suggestions, no experience) that is downvoted and commented on about the problem.

BESW

"I've done [thing] and had [experience] which seems rel🐘 to solving [querent's situation]" is some of the best kind of answer we can give, for sure.

It draws on our experts' knowledge in a complex and customized way.

NautArch

@BESW right, but would you say Nits' answer follows that formula?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah, I see what you are saying.

NautArch

Or Kadin's? I'm not sure why they are getting upvotes and no comments while Ruse's has been downvoted and commented on the problem.

I had originally downvoted and commented the same on both, but rolled back because I wasn't sure.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I see this as more of a balance evaluation yes? That is something that can usually be backed up without playtesting I think.

But I do have a tough time still assessing which answers should cite experience and which don't need it.

BESW

12:57 PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's because they're better at giving holistic non-experience-based support.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Maybe? I guess I'll Meta this. But that could make every question asking about a rule a "balance" question. "If I rule the opposite, how will it effect gameplay?"

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Sure yeah I see that for sure.

BESW

A common problem with non-experience-based answers is that they treat the problem as a mechanical puzzle; both Nits and Kadin consider the player experience rather than just the mechanical element and both urge the querent to discuss it with the group, while the third simply offers a houserule to be used by fiat and supports it with purely mechanical justifications.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose and that seems like it's a very slippery slope.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch One thing that makes the downvoted answer especially egregious is that they are proposing their own homebrew without playtesting (and even without a lot of logical support).

NautArch

12:59 PM

@BESW I had just thought we tried to NOT answer questions in that way. That we generally want rules support or experience-based support.

BESW

Yes.

Rubiksmoose

I would hypothesize that the quality of the answer is what is attracting downvotes moreso than the lack of experience-based support.

BESW

But in particular @Rubiksmoose has hit on an important note: neither Nits nor Kadin offer a custom homebrew ruleset.

As soon as you're writing your own rules, the RPG.SE groupmind is going to expect a much higher standard of support for your solution.

NautArch

@BESW Nits just says "try it and see what happens", which isn't really all that helpful for anyone else looking at the question and Kadin is provided potential pitfalls and boons without actually knowing if they are through playtesting (how is that different than Ruse's?)

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I for one think it would be a worthy discussion to have on meta though. I tend to operate on feel for these kind of situations, but that certainly leaves plenty of room for mistakes and biases and inconsistent application. For example, I know and like Nits. does that affect my perception of how he is following the rule since I am unclear on how to enforce it? ~~Maybe.~~ Probably.

BESW

1:03 PM

I'm not arguing that their answers are excellent or should be as well voted as the accepted solution.

There's a gradation here.

There's a lot of ground you can cover between "Use this complex rule I just made up without considering player experience," and "I did this and it worked in this way so I think it'll work for you too because your situation is similar to mine in these particulars."

Rubiksmoose

@BESW I was just really happy to see that it actually got an experience-based answer. Gives me the warm and fuzzies every time I see one.

BESW

But I think it IS crucial to note that the policy is specifically about homebrew, which neither Nits nor Kadin explicitly offered but Ruse did.

So yeah, there's a BIG difference there between the two and the one.

NautArch

@BESW So it's legit to post on every homebrew type question "try it and see how it works?" that seems...unhelpful.

BESW

Of course that's not legit, and that's not what either of them posted.

Rubiksmoose

@BESW Though the question itself is about homebrew so I'm not sure that gets them out of the issue entirely. Does the policy only apply when you are proposing homebrew solutions?

BESW

1:07 PM

Both of them offered constructive advice on how to implement a test of the rule change.

NautArch

And so did Ruse in their final section.

They proposed a solution and explained why.

BESW

[throws hands up in the air] I don't have a dog in this race and I clearly don't have the brainpower to communicate about it properly right now. Take it to meta.

NautArch

@BESW already there :) [high fives the hands in the air]

Rubiksmoose

hahaha

BESW

[retreats into bog]

The Oracle

1:11 PM

0

Q: When are non-rules or experience-based answers on rules questions allowed?

In this question on Ranged Divine Smite viability, I was concerned around the answers provided both by users and a Mod. Three answers are providing information that is either unplaytested suggestions/concerns or a simple recommendation to try it and see. Only one of those answers has been downvo...

discussion

BESW

NautArch

Don't know if i went to bed ornery, but this just stuck in my craw.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Maybe you should specify in your meta question that you are asking "do these answers meet community standards?"

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch it looked to me like @Ntsua's answer is based on a RAF approach; and it draws on experience from playing and DMing. That's a valid approach, and is distinct from "here's the number crunching" kind of answer.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast take it to Meta so we can discuss there? But an answer that says "just go and try it" seems like something that would get downvoted from a new user.

KorvinStarmast

1:18 PM

@NautArch OK, we can do that.

SPavel

@KorvinStarmast I didn't know the RAF had doctrine for role-playing games :P

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose added a postscript and altered my question. That work better?

KorvinStarmast

@SPavel See page 2 of this link

NautArch

and on a side note, being able to drop massive amounts of damage from distance with no bodily risk seems fairly unbalanced (but I do like the idea of having to declare the smite and use it whether or not there's a hit.)

SPavel

@KorvinStarmast oh lord, they actually legitimized the "rules as [noun]" phrasing?

I'm going to vomit

Rubiksmoose

1:23 PM

@NautArch I don't think it really fixes what I perceive as what you are asking. You need to get rid of the part asking why the other two answers aren't in the same boat because nobody is saying they aren't. What you want to find out is what the guidelines say are acceptable yes?

I think you should reword with you last sentence integrated somewhere closer to the top honestly.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Ah, I see, those really aren't helpful and by reading the Q&A folks can see that. Removed and cleaned up (can probably remove your comment)

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Is it ok if I make an edit to your question? I have some ideas that might help. You can always roll back if you don't like them.

goodguy5

yissssssssssssssssssssssssss

finally. now I just need to get RACS in there

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch oh shoot. Did not mean to submit.

If you don't respond I'll just roll it back and you can see if you want anything from the edit later.

NautArch

1:41 PM

@Rubiksmoose all good in the hood

@goodguy5 rules as crazy sauce?

Sdjz

so hm this looks like a different question altogether. How do we handle this?

goodguy5

it is now.

But Rules as Common Sense

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch quick question, instead of "rules question" this seems like you may want to say "homebrew/houserules question" no?

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose yup, and changed.

Rubiksmoose

@Sdjz oh wow. Yeah completely different. Like, how did that even happen?

NautArch

1:44 PM

The DM will have their hands full if smites are coming from ranged and melee, though (in that divine smite question)

Rubiksmoose

Please note answers suggesting homebrew need to be backed by experience. Have you tested your suggestion and can you add details about how it went? — Purple Monkey 10 hours ago

Something to note is that this meta only addresses answers that are suggesting homebrew. Not answers to homebrew questions fwiw.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Yup, that's what prompted this - but I guess I'm confused as to what that means when a mod presents an answer that seems at odds with that AND the community gives the updoots.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch but he doesn't technically right? Because his answer does not contain homebrew it is more in support of the querent's homebrew proposal.

Sdjz

@NautArch Community giving loads of upvotes may still be wrong, remember What have designers said for why they made worn items fireproof?

KorvinStarmast

@SPavel Please remember to use the airsickness bag, which is in the pocket of the seat in front of you.

Rubiksmoose

1:51 PM

@Sdjz Indeed. That is part of the reason why I think Naut's meta is good.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Sort of? The answer includes potential issues, gives an assessment on all-paladin, and then says "go try it". There is no experience support of anything said. It's just as opinion-based as Kadin (who leads with Opinion-based) and Ruse.

Every house-rule question could have an answer like that, and it's not helpful (in my opinion).

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Well here's what I am saying. Both of us are thinking that there is a policy requiring answers to homebrew question have experience based answers. However, that meta does not say that. It says that answers that are proposing homebrew must be backed up by experience.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch If the question is "should I" a valid answer is "yes, and after you have play tested this please answer your own question with the results, because play test is fun." That's the kind of mild frame challenege I had in mind, but I didn't offer. Sometimes, encouragement like that is helpful.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose And this question is questioning that :)

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yup ok, just making sure we were on the same page. I did think that the meta gave guidance for answering homebrew questions, but it is not in the accepted answer.

KorvinStarmast

1:56 PM

@NautArch Just on a personal preference, I am less inclined to be in favor of more restrictive guidelines unless absolutely necessary, and let voting do the sorting for us. @Sdjz not a good example, given the community edit war on the question, IMO, but I suppose something useful came out of all that.

Sdjz

@KorvinStarmast I meant the answer that was there before it was deleted. It was extremely popular but since it was not based on designer reasons ended up being deleted iirc

KorvinStarmast

@Sdjz Hmm, sorry I began to open that can of worms. I'll just not dwell on that example since there was so much wrong going on with that whole situation from where I sit, and we have had a meta to flesh out what we ought to do. I'd rather not contaminate @NautArch's concerns with that thing.

The Oracle

0

Q: Is there any way to fix the Help Center "Scope" page?

Compared to the other PHB races, where does Mousemen homebrew race stands, in terms of balance? has been closed as off-topic. The only stated reason for close, is 'because "Evaluate my Homebrew" are offtopic'. The quote on the autogenerated "closed" text is "This question does not appear to be ...

feature-request close-reasons help-center

NautArch

@TheOracle so confused. I thought "is this balanced" IS on-topic.

Sdjz

@KorvinStarmast Ah alright, for the record, I do find this @NautArch's meta to be useful

NautArch

2:05 PM

@Sdjz this nautarch appreciates that :)

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch That other NautArch though.... his meta posts are all junk.

Yuuki

@NautArch is dead. Long live @NautArch.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah I'm really confused here as well. "Evaluate my Homebrew" I thought was explicitly on-topic and allowed.

NautArch

Although Maybe it's Evaluate is verboten but Is this Balanced is kosher?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch But that question explicitly asks about balance...

nitsua60

2:16 PM

Interesting. The experience I'm relying on is "house-rules I've used that implicate everyone don't give me balance problems, here are the sort of problems they have occasionally caused and how to identify/deal with them." But I'm probably not communicating that clearly, given this post =) — nitsua60 ♦ 18 secs ago

NautArch

2:31 PM

@nitsua60 If that's the case, then citing that your assessment is based on problems you've experienced would clear this up more.

nitsua60

@NautArch I just made an edit to the mainsite post--thanks for pointing out to me how shallow/glossing-over my original had been. How's it look now?

(And, for the record, I'm perfectly happy with Icyfire's being better-voted. "Here's how ranged smites worked for me" is a great answer. I just think that "here's how I generally think about homebrew things and how yours fits in that scheme" is also potentially helpful. So I posted it.)

And in my defense, I think mine says a little more than the "eh, go try it" that it's characterized as on meta. It says "try it. But before trying it do these things, and do this after trying it."

Maximillian

..... Games Workshop is putting out Warhammer books for kids.

warhammer-community.com/2018/05/21/…

NautArch

@nitsua60 Fair enough, and my apologies if I came across harsh. I might be coming at this from a "mods should lead by example" reaction, which is probably not the right way to approach it.

nitsua60

@NautArch No apology necessary =)

I think it was a fair and helpful critique.

@NautArch it's reminiscent of the postscript here:

12

A: “Is something wrong?” Yes: Too much moderation

I'm going to play the other side of much recent meta-action for a moment: We tapped three of our most-active users to moderate. So all of their actions now carry a diamond. I don't think we want to still their voices--either procedurally or just through pressure--just because they're now diamon...

NautArch

2:48 PM

@nitsua60 warm and fuzzies :)

Sir Cinnamon

now kith

nitsua60

Also, now all my ToA monsters will be using ranged smites against you. You did ask for playtesting, after all =D

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I actually think your answer was closer to correct than mine btw. At least for the moment.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose Heh, I think so, too :P I added crawford's bit, but it makes zero sense.

David Coffron

@NautArch yeah in 5e, bonus actions are just regular actions that you get extra once per turn (IF you have an option that lets you). But I will say it doesnt force you take the Attack action @NautArch only that you must attack. So a Spell would be allowed if it includes an attack

(IF you can use the axe to cast the spell that is)

NautArch

3:06 PM

@DavidCoffron Definitely, clarified in my answer.

let me know if i missed a spot.

Wait, no. "you must use your action each round to attack the creature nearest to you with the axe."

David Coffron

@NautArch right, but that attack needn't come from the Attack action if you have another method to attack with it (such as green flame blade)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron right, but you still need to use the axe. Do i have something that is saying the opposite?

David Coffron

Capital Attack in the RAW section confused me. But I think it's technically fine

goodguy5

omfg, slagmoth's comment on that boons post....

it's the character count

effing hilarious

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron Any validity in saying that the fact that it only says "action" not "actions" would mean you only have to spend your one normal action?

@NautArch I don't understand your point about the movement part of JC's tweet

NautArch

3:23 PM

@Rubiksmoose JI think I read it wrong. He's still saying you have to move to an enemy, but once you've finished all potential attacks, you can move away?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Yeah that is how I read it. Once you've fulfilled the forced movement and attacks you can move as you will.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose okay, cleaning up :)

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose an argument could be made for that actually. It's a singular action, I wonder how action surge would work...

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron My exact thought actually.

David Coffron

Except each individual action is still "your action" and the effect can apply to all of them

NautArch

3:26 PM

@DavidCoffron exactly that. If action, then attack with axe.

And you've gone Berserk. Choice really isn't a thing when you're berserk.

It's why I have a hard time with JC's logic on it.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch You may want to clarify that RAI OP's bonus action plan still won't work...

@DavidCoffron read it in context: "your action each round"

This very strongly implies a singular action. I don't see any way to read that as even a soft implication of a plural.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose It doesn't use Action, but action. So any action qualifies.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch but still only one. and the only action you get every round is your normal one.

David Coffron

3:42 PM

@Rubiksmoose I agree. Didn't know it said the each round part. That clarifies it for me

Once you've used an action to attack you've satisfied it's condition. The rest of your turn is free for whatever

NautArch

@DavidCoffron SO you're not really going Berserk?

Mike Q

@NautArch You're not really going Berserk unless you angrily shout "GRIFFITH!" as your bonus action each round

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch There's Berserk the mechanic and Berserk the idea I guess.

NautArch

@MikeQ that post took guts.

Mike Q

Glad to contribute as usual

Anyone mind if I hijack the chat discussion topic?

Rubiksmoose

3:50 PM

Bah I hate getting chosen answer on a contentious topic so quickly.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I'm still confused. There is only one class that can get more than on Action. But even then, it's still an Action you're using. The lack of plural is the only thing limiting you? So if you had Haste, you'd have to spend your primary Action going Berserk, but the additional attack isnt'? that makes no sense.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch Haste is certainly an interesting edge case here as is action surge, but I'm not sure that pointing out edge cases help your case. I'm just reading the rules.

The rule implies that you use your one action to attack as hard as you can (EA included) and nothing else.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I'm pointing out that any edge case doesn't make sense if you aren't Berserk.

@Rubiksmoose I'm not sure use your action = use only one action.

Rubiksmoose

"use your action each round"

NautArch

we're both taking a leap here in interpretation. It does seem that, per JC's tweet, that intent is likely just one action, but RAW it doesn't jive with (or with what going berserk is)

Rubiksmoose

3:56 PM

I really cannot see that being open to interpretation as any kind of plural.

@NautArch Haste would be a toughy. As a DM I would house-rul that you had to do your additional attack as well. But I don't think that is what RAW is telling us honestly.

@NautArch I think you may be getting hung up a lot on the fact that the mechanics of this don't jive well with our mental image of actually going berserk.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose "use your action" Is Attack and action? Yes, use it. Is Bonus Action an attack? Yes, use it.

Yuuki

@NautArch Somehow, I knew this would end up in a casca-de of references.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose But why? it's not an extra attack, it's a whole new action. Why rule yes to Haste, but no to Action Surge?

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch I never said no to action surge...

As a DM I would likely require both of those things to be included even though I think RAW doesn't actually require them.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose I thought htat's what you were saying! Now I"m totally confused as to what your thoughts are.

Oh! So we're in 100% agreement in how we'd rule, we're just not sure we agree that RAW is supporting it?

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