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8:00 PM
@NapoleonWilson oh, sure they do! lol
Good propaganda tells a hell of a story and is still completely ficticious
they tell you why they are right and the other side is wrong
@Skooba Ah. I wonder what Poe would have thought about that.
I'm writing my first question for Lit right now. It'll take some time to writ up properly because I did my research and need to show it.
@Helmar Well, then it's on-topic, I guess.
8:00 PM
I'm just saying, the question what's literature for us is nice, but the fiction/non-fiction distinction is useless
@HDE226868 Well..he only did one out of the two ;)
The question is also waaaaaaay too broad
@steelersquirrel Haha. He was quite the fellow.
@Helmar too broad, for meta?
Just look at all comments of Robert Cartaino
Don't try to anticipate what's not a problem
8:02 PM
@Helmar I agree that the narrative/encyclopediac discussion is more important, but the answer achieved to transport that.
I'm fresh off the boat of the IoT private beta
@HDE226868 Hehehe!
That kind of question is one and a half year too early
Q: Do we need/want any sorts of content warnings?

StandbackI'm writing a post about a book which revolves around a sexual assault. Do we need/want any kind of content warning for questions that deal with difficult or triggering topics? I do not want to put "rape" in the title, as it will show up on the main page. I also don't want to surprise readers w...

@Helmar What is an IoT?
8:03 PM
@Bookworm Oh please, no! Don't feed the trigger paranoia crowd.
What in the heck does that even mean?
@Helmar Ah, I see.
So I did all that private beta meta stuff like a month ago
That's why I say, close it and bring it up again when we actually have something on the page that someone doesn't consider literature
Until that moment, let those questions come
@steelersquirrel I like poking fun at sparkling vampires as much as the next UNfan, but i'm really unsure having snarky heavily starred comments like that is a good tone to set for the site, sorry.
8:05 PM
There's no need to define something in the vacuum before and we even can't
@Helmar Well, there actually are and have been questions that fall into that. It's not like the discussion comes completely out of the blue really.
Some people geninely like Twilight (at least one well respected SFF regular does, afaik), no need to make anyone feel unweclome
@DVK-in-Florida Awwwww. I didn't mean for it to be snarky at all. It was just a joke. I promise :'(
@NapoleonWilson Then put an example in the question and make a case why questions of that sort should be off-topic
Don't just ask "What's literature?"
That's just waaaay too broad
Gheez. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that would be taken so seriously :'(
If it offends anyone, just flag it and have a mod remove it, I guess.
8:07 PM
no worries.
I laughed too, but @DVK makes a good point - thanks for lookin' out, DVK
I un-starred it.
Let our definition of literature grow meta decision by meta decision and not force it into one giant post about what constitutes literature.
@steelersquirrel Don't worry about it. DVK told you how he sees it and you understand him, everything's fine. ;-)
That's all I'm saying
Also, I'm eating, which slows writing down significantly.
@steelersquirrel I know, and I know you generally are not mean in the least. I just want to establish the tone limits off the start, and you unluked out to be what I saw
8:11 PM
@Helmar probably a better solution
what have i missed
ah just steeler insulting a group of people
no biggy
@steelersquirrel Please stop crying, we know you didn't meant it!
To DVK's defense, he also posted this meta question yesterday.
@Shog9 - while you're hanging out, can you pin the above "meta decision by meta decisoin" message please?
A: When do we finally progress "Internet of Things" from beta to released?

Robert CartainoThis is largely extracurricular to the answers already posted, but this is important to provide a bit of context… This site is essentially "done" — released. This is a a fully functional, launched site. It is not "in beta" as you've come to understand it the traditional software development mode...

Just consider this very recent post of Robert on IoT.meta
8:13 PM
Q: What should be the convention for author tags?

wythagorasThere are currently several different types of author tags. First letters and last name: j-r-r-tolkien, j-d-salinger, j-k-rowling First name, middle name, last name: edgar-allan-poe, arthur-conan-doyle First name and last name: mark-twain, jane-austen Is this a problem? On on...

Forcing discussion where there is no problem has seemingly proven hurtful
wait wait. was this ad a badly translated clickbait advertising language lessons? I closed the window before I could read the ad.
@DVK-in-Florida Helmar's?
@Shog9 Affirmative
"There's no need to force "rules discussions" where there is no actual problem. Folks are more than willing to point out problems where they show up in actual practice, so tackle the problems when/if they become prominent in actual use" - from said answer
8:15 PM
I'm on a Helmar-pinning spree
hooray, i asked my first question :')
@Helmar hmmmm
@steelersquirrel oh god why did you tell a 14 yr old that ;)
that is about 2 hours too late
@doppelgreener Congratulations!
8:16 PM
@NapoleonWilson thanks!
Good quote there, @Helmar. Y'all are on Day Two of the private beta. No need to feel like you need to solve every problem Yesterday :)
@DVK-in-Florida it's stupid simple
same thing as HNQ
gosh im having deja-vue
@doppelgreener good question!
@Mithrandir I know, I leave for a few hours and come back and wonder if I accidentally failed to go back into the right room.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ We are in private Beta. Shouldn't we as a community TRY to raise the standards a bit and concentrate on rewarding actually difficult and professionally interesting content?
8:21 PM
I agree
that wasn't a compliment to the question
@DVK-in-Florida not sure it that insults this room or a whole other chat room
@DVK-in-Florida There is no "we the community" unless you want to merge into a hive mind
People will always vote at their own discretion
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Don't mention HNQ please. I'm already depressed over memes in chat.
That means simple always wins
@DVK-in-Florida :/ sorry
8:22 PM
@DVK-in-Florida That's hard, because unlike on say Mathoverflow, I can't guess easily what content actually interests professionals.
@doppelgreener btw, your question is close to another one I'm planning to post later regarding hyperion vs endymion
All that is necessary for simple to win is for good people to stand around instead of downvoting
HNQ will likely award the first gold badge ;)
not dupe in any way, just thought it was interesting and you might like to know
@DForck42 thank you, i was hoping so. :) i was fearing that i wouldn't come up with a good question throughout the whole beta and be able to meaningfully participate on mainsite.
8:23 PM
@Helmar That's rhetoric. You can very well strive to see the site as a community.
@Shog9 I (down) Voted. Where's my pin?
@NapoleonWilson i agree, though we could also experiment with hive mind technology.
Or that.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ i look forward to seeing it!
@doppelgreener :-D
8:25 PM
@doppelgreener :D I'm waiting for the new UTC day, but I'll post it then
Oh so there is a Lit chat
@BeastlyGerbil lol, yes
@Helmar What? Yearling already after 2 days?
welcome to the chaos
8:25 PM
@Helmar of course this a community, what else would you call it?
@Helmar Well, tangentially, yes, I am not opposed to being integrated into a hive mind. There are tangible benefits.
So many users here :P
@b_jonas that's silver ;)
No 10k views
Q: How can I stop Alexa from ordering things if it hears a voice on TV?

Aurora0001According to The Register, lots of Amazon Echo devices were accidentally triggered by a presenter saying 'Alexa ordered me a dollhouse'. Telly station CW-6 said the blunder happened during a Thursday morning news package about a Texan six-year-old who racked up big charges while talking to an...

Sponsored by HNQ
8:26 PM
@Helmar Ah yes. Sorry. I mean Fanatic.
@b_jonas Ok, I meant site-wide first gold is likely to be sponsored by HNQ
@Helmar throw the **** out
@Helmar my first gold was sponsered by HNQ anyway :P
Just saying HNQ is a user magnet and way more valuable for small sites than for big
@BeastlyGerbil My first gold was Electorate.
8:28 PM
@Helmar I still find this HILARIOUS
Do questions on private betas get to HNQ?
@BeastlyGerbil Nope
damn :P
Gotta go public beta
8:29 PM
@Shog9 apparently I was the 5th to downvote something?
Well by the looks of it we'll get to public easy enough
@doppelgreener found an interview with keats regarding your question! TL;DR: yes
@BeastlyGerbil if it did then private betas would probably flood the hnq
I can't write it up as an answer right now (working on spanish HW) but will in a bit
But then two answers ~2score and a question of 3-4score will be enough to go HNQ
8:30 PM
cause private betas tend to have a lot more activity than normal
@DForck42 true
Or question and one answer ~4
Whoa. How come Stack Overflow shows small icons next to some tags?
@b_jonas Someone implemented it
8:31 PM
Those are "sponsored tags"
Q: What do icons on the tags mean?

AndomarWhat does an icon on the tag mean, for example the "rg" before the sql-server tag as pictured below? Return to FAQ index

@Helmar 10/10 such answer much wow
SO is ridiculously large. Don't get involved. :P
@BeastlyGerbil lol
Is word choice and word meaning on-topic?
I think so
8:32 PM
@Benjamin word choice?
That would be text analysis wouldn't it?
@Helmar But are those valuable users? Do they stick around to meaningfully participate in the site as opposed to drive-by upvote HNQ (which is more likely low quality than not) and disappear again? Stats are required.
@DVK-in-Florida Well 90-9-1 as everything on the internet
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ thanks
So we got 3 new users who asked a question from that
I think 2 who answered
8:33 PM
@BeastlyGerbil I'm not getting involved.
@b_jonas TL;DR: want a darth vader mask on the SFF star wars tag? give shog money
From about 150-200 new site registrations
I tried. I did. But when a question is off the newest tab screen within 2 minutes it's hard
Although it's almost the same with Literature at the moment. So many new questions flooding in
@BeastlyGerbil It was worst within the first few hours.
Yeah I remember :)
8:35 PM
I couldn't sip some water without missing a new post.
what site?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ woo! that's about the best kind of source i was hoping for!
we definitely shouldn't get a 'new question' feed for chat, just yet
There'd be no room for chat messages
8:36 PM
@DVK-in-Florida HNQ visits have lead to me to registering at a small number of sites, and lead me to participate in a small number of those sites.
@doppelgreener Exactly, that's what HNQ does for small sites
HNQ rewards the poster not the site
for the most part
@Skooba For small sites it does both
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ (also just did a double-take: i presume you mean an interview with dan simmons!)
Because the people aren't already registered for drive by voting
They have to register
8:39 PM
@DForck42 awarded in batches and secondary sort is by... Looks like userID... so, not necessarily.
(interviews with people who have been dead for two centuries at the time of the interview are not generally known to make for very trustworthy citations)
Whoever does that is more likely to stick around than the people who just come by to randomly upvote and go again
...oh, goody, another HNQ discussion
@Shog9 But are they awarded in batches? Isn't that a badge that comes rather individually?
Oh wait, caching, right?
@Shog9 why do I recognise your name? Not from literature, but somewhere else...
8:41 PM
@Shog9 Sorry, but I revised my opinion about <expletive>, <expletive>, <expletive>, <expletive> HNQ a bit since being active on a reeeeealy small page
@BeastlyGerbil Shog is all present, all knowing
@BeastlyGerbil He's the boss of SE (from a user viewpoint)! ;-)
What is The Salon for?
@Shog9 HNQ is awesome. esp. when you can guess when your posts will hit it
Oh yeah he's part of the community team. That's why :)
8:42 PM
@Benjamin I was wondering this too.
@Benjamin getting you hair cut?
or if you are on a boat, lounging and drinks
Wait, so Programmers SE got rebranded to Software Engineering SE? Nice
Also got a new logo
Yeah, months ago.
whats the difference from that and SO?
@BeastlyGerbil I once ate 40 hot wings in an evening. Crowning achievement. Probably that.
8:43 PM
@BeastlyGerbil About 1 million closed questions a year
@Shog9 :P
@Helmar true....
@BeastlyGerbil SO is about implementing code. software engineering is softer ideas about development practices, team structures, theorywork, etc.
ah ok
And also everyone knows about SO
thats the big difference
@Shog9 ahh ok
@Shog9 Not so much discussion as aimless venting. you have to accept that HNQ isn't universally liked, usually for rather objective reasons (and partly, because SE didn't yet decide to tweak it to eliminate the worst of the negative side effects).
8:45 PM
@NapoleonWilson most badges are awarded by tasks that run periodically. Some run more often than others, most are throttled based on server load to prevent bringing down a site when a bunch of badges need to be awarded at once.
Also sometimes SO uses Programmers as a garbage bin, pushing bad questions there, at least according to the accusations some people on Programmers say.
Thats not good
@DVK-in-Florida Oh, I accept it. I don't much care for the "boogieman" implications that get thrown out though.
@Shog9 Nice. What condiment did you use?
ranch dressing, of course
8:46 PM
I love how there are so many serious sites here, and then I come from Puzzling, the least serious site there is :P
@Shog9 My issues with it are rather specific (and formally documented as a Meta proposal)
@BeastlyGerbil talk about serious

Proposed Q&A site for pirates and followers of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Currently in definition.

How has that even got 11 followers
If I ever get time, I'm gonna try & put together a report on the nature of the traffic that HNQ sends to various sites network-wide, and the after effects.
that would be interesting
8:47 PM
@BeastlyGerbil Puzzling is horrible because it keeps taking all the HNQ with the funny clickbait question titles. We Sci Fiers have a lot to learn from how they compose titles. It's not clearly the least serious though. Code Golf, Worldbuilding are also not very serious.
@BeastlyGerbil whatch it if you are going to make fun of people's religion.
Folks tend to fixate on the handful of posts that get a LOT of traffic, but... The list changes every few minutes. Tremendous number of questions and sites just get a little bit of extra exposure
@Shog9 Yah, the actual data would definitely help. However, why do you stress "traffic" instead of "stickiness" if I may ask? Traffic is transient.
(I want Housework SE and Typography SE. I think the proposal for the latter died.)
@Gallifreian Pirates? Huh? Did I miss something? What do pirates have to do with Pastafarianism?
8:48 PM
@DVK-in-Florida "after effects"
@b_jonas The site doesn't try and get questions to HNQ. I think the fact it is a fun site, people are mor einclined to click on it and to sort of relax a bit more
@b_jonas You want people to do your Housework for you, not just write code? :) :) :)
I'm onboard with THAT!
Where do I sign up?
@Catija Pirates are the chosen people of the FSM, according to their holy scripture. There's a story behind that with some badly labelled chart with the number of pirates on one axis.
@DVK-in-Florida I said I'm not on SO.
@Catija I'm not gettin' into this, you go ask them on Area 51
@Catija Wut? You never heard about that? I though they were seriously important there.
8:50 PM
@Shog9 Hm. That's strange. I find that - at least - SFF HNQ posts don't change that often. I see the same exact Qs on the list for several days.
@Shog9 please do
@Catija TL;DR: in pastafarian mythology, all people come from pirates and pirates were originally good
@Catija And don't forget that in general whenever something is joke for you, it's taken very seriously by some small minority.
by some very, very, small minority...
(And there's a fetish for it, and a porn site on the internet about it.)
8:51 PM
Q: Should questions with sexual topics even be allowed?

georgestriebyThis recent question deals with a sexual topic, and I'm wondering whether these (embarrassing?) questions should even be allowed. Of course Literature is full of this sort of topic, but should we let questions like these on the site?

@Shog9 One thing i'm really curious about is, did anyone ever study whether the questions HNQ algorithm chooses actually match up to what the site's community would want to see as questions which the site should be represented with in HNQ?
@b_jonas how do you even know that
For me personally, the two sets don't often match, but i wonder if that's a typical situation or me being an outlier.
@Randal'Thor I'll be posting a couple more questions after the rep cap rolls over, don't worry!
8:53 PM
@Bookworm That was bound to come up at some point. Can someone copy/paste the answers from SFF Meta for expediency sake?
@DVK-in-Florida heh... That discussion quickly becomes one of those fun "no true scotsman" things
@DVK-in-Florida for my part that's a non-starter because i don't expect HNQ to display what my community wants to present to the outside. it just displays things people have paid a lot of attention to.
yes, we've talked about it, a lot
Heck, we had a plan at one point to try curating questions we were promoting
(i don't think we even have a "what our community wants to present.")
rpg.se HNQs are frequently absurd situations or real-world cases of abuse (or near-abuse), but i'm proud of our site being able to demonstrate we can help people handle the latter cases well.
@DVK-in-Florida Done
8:55 PM
@Shog9 I was thinking something objective. A site poll (remember site self-evaluations that happened on Meta a couple of years back?). Or Review type queue where people can mark HNQ questions as "should be / shouldn't be" - no functional effect of that but sends you data.
so, yeah...
...if by "community" you mean "the folks hanging around the site and answering and voting", then yes HNQ does represent.
...if by "community" you mean "the folks on meta", less representative
...if by "community" you mean "moderators", probably never
HNQ should never be taken as a representative sample of a site's content. That's not their design goal, and it certainly isn't what happens in practice.
What's HNQ?
Hot Network Questions sidebar
Hot network questions
ninja'd :P
8:56 PM
@Emrakul I agree. Also, wow, hi!
Fancy meeting you here.
@DVK-in-Florida self-evals failed because, on balance, barely anyone participated in a significant way. The plan for curation failed in the same manner. Also the previous attempt at encouraging self-promotion via badges. Most folks don't want to spend a lot of time find and promoting good questions on their sites; if they did, none of this would be needed.
@doppelgreener lol
emrak gets around
@b_jonas Not sure what that's supposed to mean...
8:57 PM
@Emrakul It's less about "should" and more about "actual impressions people get". if all I see of a site is HNQ questions, that WILL be the site's public face for me and what I judge the site on, for lack of any other data points.
...I gotta reboot, back in a bit
@DVK-in-Florida honestly, the only time I pay attention to HNQ is when othe rpeople bring it up
@doppelgreener Nice to see you here! Hi!
i forget about it all the time
i got hooked in by a hnq
8:59 PM
@Shog9 floored. I'm beyond surprised. People DID put in that effort on SFF, from my experience (including for the blog)
@Emrakul Well, sure, go tell that all those users seeing them, though.
Hmm, how would I set it to post my questions for me at 2:00 AM my time...?
though sff hnq tend to be really click baity
@DVK-in-Florida I mean, I don't disagree. (Especially as a Puzzling moderator) it's something I consider a design flaw in the way HNQ works.
@DVK-in-Florida It was different on some smaller sites.
(Not all, but some. I certainly saw some apathy on, say, Astronomy.)

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