English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

12:00 AM

That's what I was going to suggest.

terdon

I'm using natbib and plain.

@KitFox :)

KitFox

Not that you were an idiot.

terdon

Both would have been correct in this instance.

KitFox

Just that you can modify the file.

terdon

Anyway thanks, at least you jogged my tired brain. I'll go modify a bst file then :)

KitFox

12:01 AM

Have fun!

tchrist

@Cerberus On many axes, yes; on others, perhaps not.

Cerberus

12:18 AM

As in, causing violence against others.

Mitch

Soccer hooligans, the hoi polloi, contemporary artists, classicists and philologists all alcohol addicts.

Also Oxford-comma-ignorers.

Cerberus

Comme toi?

Mitch

Claro.

user116848

Instead of colloquially saying: "Kenny asked me who I am, where I am from etc" can I say it like this: "Kenny asked me who I was, where I was from etc." to sound more natural?

Cerberus

Yes, I would say was.

terdon

12:29 AM

@Arrowfar Yes. Certainly. In fact, the second is what just about all native speakers would say.

Cerberus

Am sounds less natural.

terdon

@Cerberus To you and me maybe. Some people like waking up early :P

user116848

I see.

tchrist

@Arrowfar I don’t get the “colloquial” thing there.

Cerberus

@terdon Haha, that is unnatural!

terdon

12:31 AM

:)

Cerberus

To quote Patsy: "seven thirty in the morning? Means nothing to me. <goes back to sleep in burned-down house>"

user116848

@tchrist So you think first one isn't informal or colloquial? Or is it downright wrong?

tchrist

@terdon There are two kinds of people in this world: early-risers and slackers. But only one kind that actually accomplishes anything.

Cerberus

Bees work hard. Are they genii?

user116848

It's 5am where I live :D

Cerberus

12:33 AM

Yay!

user116848

:)

tchrist

This has actually been demonstrated by science.

I am not kidding.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar It sounds almost wrong. It would probably require an unusual context, one where your story switched perspectives to the present mid-sentence.

user116848

yeah

Cerberus

@tchrist It has been demonstrated that students did a lot better at tests when classes were moved to a later time.

tchrist

12:36 AM

@Cerberus It has been demonstrated that you think better at the beginning of the day than the end.

user116848

Yeah. I read sleep makes your mind energetic like some memory enhancing pill.

tchrist

In a study at a Texas university, early birds had an average grade point average (GPA) that was a full point higher than night owls: 3.5 vs. 2.5.

Cerberus

@tchrist It has been demonstrated that I have more trouble translating Greek at the beginning of the day than at the "end" (if such a thing exists).

@tchrist Drones.

user116848

So Cerbs you don't agree with early risers?

user116848

Well I sleep in parts. Sometimes at a stretch for 6-7 hours :D

tchrist

12:41 AM

You are at your peak in the early morning soon after rising. It’s all downhill from there, like a clockwork toy running out of energy.

user116848

Right

tchrist

> They found that compared to early risers and intermediates, night owls showed reduced integrity of white matter in several areas of the brain. White matter is fatty tissue in the brain that facilitates communication among nerve cells. Diminished integrity of the brain's white matter has been linked to depression and to disruptions of normal cognitive function.

Progressive brain damage: very, very sad.

> Research indicates that people who stay up late are at higher risk for depression. Studies have also shown night owls more prone to more significant tobacco and alcohol use, as well as inclined to eating more, and also less healthful diets than early risers or people with intermediate sleep patterns.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar What do you mean, "agree with"?

terdon

@tchrist The slackers. Obviously. First because, as I'm sure you know, laziness is one of the great human virtues and leads directly to efficiency. Second because the rest if youse are too tired to get anything done since you're not getting enough sleep.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar They say it is healthier to sleep for 8 hours straight. Not entirely sure it is true.

user116848

12:44 AM

6 mins ago, by Cerberus

@tchrist It has been demonstrated that I have more trouble translating Greek at the beginning of the day than at the "end" (if such a thing exists).

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't know why you say that, but it does not work that way for my body at all, nor for many people I know.

tchrist

All of my friends are morning people.

If you don’t get up until lunch, then you have just wasted the most important part of the day.

terdon

@tchrist You missed a u.

Cerberus

Hehe.

@tchrist Society is for some unfathomable reason suited to early risers. This affects us badly. So it would make sense for us to be more depressed, etc.

tchrist

The reason morning people get more things done is because they aren’t perpetually late.

People who are always late never get as much done as people who are usually early.

It stands to reason.

Cerberus

12:47 AM

But I get to work all night to finish a project when needed.

You would be unable to do so.

terdon

@tchrist Pffft. I'd like to read those studies. I'm fairly sure they're putting the cart before the horse. I don't have an unhealthy life style because I go to sleep late. I have an unhealthy life style, ergo I also sleep late. Still an argument in your favor mind, but not a causative effect.

tchrist

That’s why slacker and lazy go together: just can’t get shit done.

Cerberus

@terdon Agree.

terdon

@tchrist You don't even have time to shit? You should go to sleep later.

Cerberus

This is one of those positions that Tom for some reason defends adamantly even though it is just random, like Fahrenheit.

terdon

12:48 AM

It would be nice if my circadian rhythm were suddenly aligned with that of the masses though. It would simplify certain things. However, I squeeze as many hours out of a day as anyone, they're just not the same hours.

@Cerberus He has to. He's forced by choice and circumstance to be an early riser. Just as we have to defend ours. Such is the human condition.

user116848

@Cerberus But some people don't have any fixed time for sleep. Like me for instance. I sleep when I feel like sleeping.

tchrist

> Early birds are more proactive than evening people – and so they do well in business, says Christoph Randler, a biology professor at the University of Education in Heidelberg, Germany.

No, it is because it has been proven time and again.

Cerberus

@terdon I couldn't agree more.

@terdon Indeed, just as women have to defend childbirth.

Oh, wait...

tchrist

I have no patience for people who oversleep, are late to meetings, don’t do their homework on time, etc etc etc.

user116848

So why the saying "Burning the mid night oil"? Why not "Burning the early morning oil"?

Cerberus

12:51 AM

@Arrowfar Well, anything's possible with sleep, but that may be less healthy.

tchrist

“A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.”

terdon

@tchrist That's a different issue. You shouldn't.

Cerberus

My sleep "cycle" is also very irregular, but it is unhealthy and I hate it.

terdon

We're not defending our hours when they affect the lives of others. If I have a deadline or a meeting or a job to do I better damn well do it and sleeping through it is unacceptable.

Cerberus

Sure.

terdon

12:52 AM

However, if I choose to do my work at 3 AM, that's nobody's business but my own.

Cerberus

If only society weren't geared towards early risers...

terdon

Yeah...

tchrist

We simply take our responsibilities in this life more seriously than slackers do.

That’s why we get better grades, do better in business, etc.

And don’t have brain damage.

terdon

@tchrist No. You are confusing two separate issues. Getting the job done is one thing, getting it done at a particular time is irrelevant. As long as it's done by a particular time that is.

Cerberus

Haha.

Most early risers I know seem less imaginative, more like work bees.

user116848

12:54 AM

I agree with terdon and Cerbs. tchrist you are too strict!

Cerberus

Of course there are exceptions...

tchrist

@Arrowfar So, you’re lazy, too? Fine.

Meanwhile, Putin has gotten away with it again.

terdon

Putain!

Cerberus

Again?

tchrist

He always gets away with it.

terdon

12:56 AM

I never understood why people equate late risers with slackers. I tend to sleep less than most people I know. grumbles

tchrist

The evidence is now thoroughly destroyed.

And there is nothing anyone can do.

Or at least, will do.

Cerberus

@terdon I really don't know anybody who does, in all seriousness. Except Tom.

tchrist

This is why it is always the defenders who cause wars.

If they would just roll over and surrender like Putin demands, there would be no conflict.

terdon

Uppity!

Cerberus

I will grant Tom this: night owls tend to go to sleep later than the previous day, which makes it harder for them to keep a regular cycle, which in turn can be detrimental to their health and stuff.

terdon

12:58 AM

Absolutely. Dammit.

tchrist

Humans are diurnal creatures. It’s in our blood.

Cerberus

On the other hand, they seem to have more vision, generally.

@tchrist I have never felt much of a connection between activity and daylight.

tchrist

Then you are an unnatural creature.

terdon

@tchrist It is unfortunately. There is, however, significant variation in the population. It's linked with certain hormonal cycles and there are actually biochemical differences between early birds and night owls.

Cerberus

@tchrist I am, d'oh. Nature is bad. And I don't sleep longer in winter. Do you sleep the entire night in winter, i.e. all through darkness?

terdon

12:59 AM

I felt so much better when I first learned that in uni.

Cerberus

How do you mean?

tchrist

@terdon Hormonal cycles are easily broken: cancel their credit cards.

Cerberus

@terdon Surely you knew people were different?

tchrist

@Cerberus Of course I do. I never sleep in the summer; I sleep forever in the winter.

Cerberus

Really?

terdon

1:00 AM

@Cerberus Of course, I didn't know there was a specific biochemical basis to it though.

tchrist

Yes.

Cerberus

I don't think that is healthy? Then you get far too little sleep in summer.

terdon

I can't bear your lies.

Cerberus

Okay, sure, not the specific basis.

terdon

@Cerberus He' screwing with us, trying to pretend he's hibernating. A bear.

Cerberus

1:01 AM

But can you bare them?

Oh, that bear is what you meant.

terdon

Yup. So I can also bare them :)

Cerberus

Yay!

tchrist

I rise before dawn and, if I’m lucky, make it till dusk.

Cerberus

Have you ever used sleeping pills? I'm thinking about asking my doctor for some.

tchrist

Sometimes I fail.

Cerberus

1:02 AM

We never fail.

tchrist

@Cerberus What, and be tired and sleepy? Ick!

Cerberus

What?

tchrist

I do not want to take pills to oversleep.

Cerberus

I don't understand.

tchrist

I fall asleep when it gets dark.

I rise awake when it gets light.

Cerberus

1:04 AM

I see you are in Indirect-Communication Mode.

presses button

tchrist

Why in the world would I want to burn daylight?

Waste of life.

Cerberus

Maybe if you wanted to sleep, but were unable to?

tchrist

Then I wait for dusk.

terdon

@Cerberus Try taking retinoic acid. It is supposed to help regulate the sleep cycle. Worst case scenario, it just won't work, it's completely innocuous. Also known as vitamin A.

Well, retinol, but the acid is what it becomes when you take it.

tchrist

I swear to you: if I stay up all night, I can be nearly catatonic at 4am but by the time the sun rises, I simply explode with ebullient energy.

It’s like a rocket charger.

Cerberus

1:05 AM

@tchrist What if that meant you had to go without sleep for 48+ hours, and not just once?

@terdon Is that like melatonine? That doesn't work for me. I will need strong stuff.

tchrist

@Cerberus If I miss a night’s sleep, I simply wait for the next one.

terdon

@tchrist Damn, I have the opposite effect. When I haven't slept enough, I'm exhausted all day and keep thinking I'll manage to go to sleep at a decent hour for once. Then, the sun sets and I'm full of energy :(

tchrist

But missing a night’s sleep is rare.

Cerberus

@tchrist And what if you miss the next one, too?

@terdon Same here!

tchrist

@terdon That hits in the afternoon, never the morning. The morning is the time for energy.

terdon

1:07 AM

@Cerberus Umm, not like as such, no. But yes, similar to it in that it's a harmless substance that has been linked o sleep.

Cerberus

The second half of the day is always my best. My mind is clear and I am full of energy.

terdon

@Cerberus Yeah. The coffee has finally kicked in.

Cerberus

@terdon I'm afraid I'm going to need more than a harmless substance!

tchrist

I am never tired in the morning, even without sleep. I always wake up with a song in my heart and a spring in my step, whistling merry tunes.

terdon

Well, heroin is supposed to work like a charm as well.

Cerberus

1:08 AM

@terdon Haha surely coffee works within half an hour? I don't drink it (I do need black tea in the morning).

terdon

@tchrist Oh man, I hate people like that.

tchrist

Think of it as being bipolar but with strictly heliocentric cycles.

Cerberus

@terdon Same.

@terdon Or...just sleeping pills!

terdon

If only they'd stay away from me until I've had my coffee. Nothing worse than someone being cheerful at you in the morning.

tchrist

I am always chipper and cheerful by dawn, daunted and defeated by dusk.

Cerberus

1:08 AM

I want to use sleeping pills in order to move my sleep cycle to a Christian hour.

@terdon As long as they limit their questions to yes/no-questions, I can handle it.

tchrist

Just like every other windup toy.

terdon

@Cerberus I just ignore them until they start making sense (i.e. coffee)

Cerberus

@tchrist Doesn't that make it harder to fully enjoy social events, which usually go on until late?

@terdon Wise.

I sometimes go out for a run after midnight.

That is when I am full of energy.

There are fewer people out.

And I can work without being disturbed; night time can be very productive.

No people bothering me, no messages, no calls.

And no potential distractions such as shops.

tchrist

@Cerberus I never bother. I’d always rather meet someone for breakfast than for supper.

I have to see matineés. If I go at night, I simply go to sleep.

Always have.

terdon

Anyway, I'm going to try and sleep. It's a decent hour for it, 3am is not that bad.

tchrist

1:13 AM

Even in college.

Mitch

I feel like when something needs to get done I can always stay up later, but there's no point in getting up earlier.

tchrist

> Qui benedicit proximo suo voce grandi de nocte consurgens maledicenti similis erit.

terdon

@tchrist You know, the two are not mutually exclusive.

tchrist

@terdon Pancakes.

We can have both pancakes to eat.

Cerberus

@tchrist That sounds most inconvenient.

tchrist

1:14 AM

It shall be my breakfast and your supper.

terdon

More like meeting the same person for supper and breakfast.

Cerberus

@terdon Good luck!! I'm going to try around 5:30.

terdon

@tchrist But I appreciate the offer :)

tchrist

@Cerberus I don’t do things at night. I’m useless. Can’t think. Just want to fall over.

Cerberus

@Mitch Same!

Mitch

1:15 AM

It's like choosing to go back in time.

Which you can't actually do.

I've been told

tchrist

I got together with a friend this weekend. Like me, she arises at dawn. We got a whole day’s worth of fun in by 2pm.

Cerberus

@tchrist Wouldn't it be nice if you were able to go on for as long as you wanted at night?

Robusto

@tchrist People don't show matineés at night. No wonder you fall asleep.

Cerberus

@Robusto Or perhaps it was Andriessen.

tchrist

@Cerberus And lose the joy that cometh in the morning? I think not!

Mitch

1:16 AM

I'd go to a matinee at night. Kinda wxotic

Cerberus

@tchrist It is a trade-off...

@tchrist I think we are all good as we are. If we were different, how would you, @terdon, and I be able to chat like this, huh?

We would never meet.

user116848

Is this sentence grammatical: "If I had more time I would tell you guys what I liked and what I disliked" Or should I say it like this: "If I had more time I would tell you guys what I like and what I dislike"

tchrist

> Ad vesperum demorabitur fletus et ad matutinum laetitia.

@Arrowfar You want the second one.

Unless you mean something that is no longer true.

Those two sentences mean different things.

user116848

@tchrist Why not first one? It is a hyopthetical present situation.

tchrist

If it is present, then use present.

If you are talking about what you enjoyed at the film you saw last week, then use past.

Cerberus

1:23 AM

@Arrowfar Both possible.

tchrist

Only use past for something that is no longer happening.

user116848

But we start hypothetical sentences with past like: "If I had..." So?

tchrist

@Arrowfar So what?

Cerberus

I do not agree with Tom.

Clauses that depend on the hypothetical can indeed be put in the past tense, usually.

tchrist

@Cerberus You don’t think those mean different things?

Cerberus

1:24 AM

Not necessarily.

user116848

@tchrist So it is not necessary to use "past" in the following part of the sentence?

tchrist

If I’d more time, I’d tell you just exactly who I am.

Not who I was.

Cerberus

@Arrowfar It is not necessary, but it is possible, with the same meaning.

tchrist

That would be something else.

Cerberus

Not necessarily.

tchrist

1:25 AM

I know what I mean.

Cerberus

It's optional. Harmony of tenses and such.

user116848

So both Cerbs and Tchrist opinions differ I guess. So anyone else here want to shed a light on this?

Cerberus

7

Q: "He didn't know where New Jersey was"

I know the past tense carries the past tense in every dependent clause, but referring specifically to places or to things that are eternal, like the Earth, seems a bit weird and therefore we sometimes (I believe incorrectly) say He didn't know that New Jersey was actually in the East Coast. ...

tchrist

English doesn’t have “sequence of tense” constraints like the Latin languages.

Yes, but you gave the wrong answer.

Unfortunately.

Because New Jersey is still there.

Cerberus

No, it is correct.

Both tenses are possible.

tchrist

1:27 AM

New Jersey isn’t moving.

Cerberus

Most style guides agree, and so does actual usage.

tchrist

Prove usage.

Cerberus

google.com/…

Harmony of tenses allows the past tense in dependent clauses even for timeless facts or things that are true now.

It is the same in many languages.

The harmony of tenses in hypothetical sentences is a bit more complicated than in simple past sentences.

Some style guides recommend the past tense exclusively there.

But I think most will allow either, also depending on the situation.

user116848

I see.

Cerberus

Mitch

1:32 AM

People just do it that way. Logic is being too literal.

Cerberus

People are often tempted by whatever comes up first in their mind to declare the alternative to be "not used" or "impossible". All of us are vulnerable to this.

Mitch

Language isn't literal. It's mostly metaphor.

Cerberus

True!

In effect, all of language is a metaphor.

Words standing for meaning.

The word tree is not itself a tree.

Nor a pipe.

On a more cheerful note:

> Manuel Noriega, the former dictator of Panama, is suing Call of Duty's video games publisher. The ex-military ruler is seeking lost profits and damages after a character based on him featured in Activision's 2012 title Black Ops II. The 80-year-old is currently serving a jail sentence in Panama for crimes committed during his time in power, including the murder of critics.

tchrist

There are many, many other cases of knew that followed by a present-tense clause.

Cerberus

I did not say the present tense was impossible. So that confirms what I said.

tchrist

1:42 AM

> I knew that no one is immune to the vagaries of fate, and tragedy has struck.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch which word?

tchrist

You couldn’t put those in the past tense.

It wouldn’t sound right.

Cerberus

Sometimes, one sounds better than the other.

Generally, both are possible, even with timeless facts.

Mitch

Ok is the past participle of 'to mow' = 'mown'?

As in ' the grass was mown'?

tchrist

I have 124 cases of knew that followed by be in the present tense.

Cerberus

1:43 AM

@tchrist The past tense would sound at least acceptable to me in that sentence.

@Mitch Yes?

Maybe mowed is also possible...

tchrist

> The Greeks knew that theater is a joyous, communal experience.

> Astronomers knew that Mars is too cold and too dry, with an atmosphere too thin, ...

Cerberus

What are you doing?

tchrist

> Everyone wanted to say that Cynthia Wiggins was the most beautiful, but secretly they knew that beauty is not just outwardly.

Cerberus

I saw both A and B are possible, and you give me instances of A.

tchrist

Providing examples where the past tense is not possible.

Cerberus

1:45 AM

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

Sometimes, one sounds better than the other.

2 mins ago, by Cerberus

Generally, both are possible, even with timeless facts.

tchrist

> But Jimmy knew that not everything is revealed at once.

Cerberus

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

@tchrist The past tense would sound at least acceptable to me in that sentence.

tchrist

You can’t use past there.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I made my first gif.

tchrist

> . . . there were people who asked, " Is that in America? " Others knew that Nigeria is in Africa, but they asked " Do you live in trees . . .

You can’t use was there.

> They knew that it is always wrong to clear shrubs and water plants away from the edge. . . .

Cerberus

1:47 AM

@tchrist I agree that perhaps in this example the past would have a different meaning. But we'd need more context, the past may be possible without change of meaning.

@tchrist I would use was without batting an eye there.

tchrist

> We all knew that domestic violence isn't just about men abusing women.

> "It's the rust!" she lied, but we all knew that rust is fixable, or that hair of hers might be silver, not

> The strangest one we got was one parent who washed their cat because they knew that cat dander is a major cause of asthma, " said Dr. Michael Cabana.

> I thought everyone -- even city folk, of whom I am one -- knew that a steer is a male (castrated bull).

Cerberus

I would have no problem with the past tense in all of those examples.

tchrist

> Ninety-four percent knew cigarette smoking causes lung cancer, for example, and about three-quarters knew that some radioactivity is naturally produced, that continents are moving and that light travels

Cerberus

Try to change your perspective.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Any word that bothers you so much: " i have a problem saying a few words i want to remove them from vocabulary what are my alternatives ?"

5 hours ago, by tchrist

-1

Q: i have a problem saying a few words i want to remove them from vocabulary what are my alternatives ?

alternative suggestions for verb replacement to use in positive reenforcement I rather not imply that my client cant do something while for today she can not but a year from now she possibly could, i would rather not tell her don't do that, i just dislike no altogether. I am looking for alternat...

verbs

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

1:51 AM

@Mitch Oh. Yeah.

tchrist

@Cerberus You are biased by Romance sequence-of-tense laws.

!!mustache KitFox

I give up.

@tchrist They're saying that beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes right to the bone.

Cerberus

1:52 AM

@tchrist Nope. It is the same in the Germanic languages, in this respect.

> Hij wist dat de aarde rond was.

> Er wußte, dass die Erde rund war.

tchrist

Now try it with present. Are those still grammatical?

Mitch

@tchrist all those examples work both ways for me, 'is' or 'was'

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes.

tchrist

Then why do you tell pineapples not to use present tense?

Mitch

@Cerberus what do the Slavs do? To Chinese it is all the same, they just use aspect.

Cerberus

1:55 AM

@Mitch Hmm no idea about the Slavs! But I would expect them to do as we do...

@tchrist I did not.

See my doubly quoted "optional".

tchrist

What’s the past tense of wannabe?

wannabeen?

Mitch

This sounds like asking for advice on how to be polite? Direct orders sound too controlling so you're looking for indirect wording? "Don't put your hand in the fire!" -> "If you put you hand in the fire, it might hurt" -> "Sure, whatever" -> "Don't come crying to me when your hand gets burned to a stump!". Hm... back where we started. — Mitch 28 secs ago

@Cerberus I always think that things are universal, then it sometimes turns out otherwise.

@Cerberus Wait... what does Romance do? Are the tenses the same or different?

tchrist

Even a hasbeen really was something; he was never a wannabe.

Or if he was, he overcame that condition.

Cerberus

@tchrist Wannedtobe, also known as Winnetou.

@Mitch Yeah, we must always at least leave room for doubt!

tchrist

@Cerberus Toby Maguire?

Cerberus

2:02 AM

@Mitch Ummm I think it's complicated.

Latin usually uses the infinitive in declarative sentences.

So "that" + clause is much rarer.

tchrist

> El Maestro creía que es bueno que todo hombre se vea a sí mismo como hijo de Dios.

Cerberus

@tchrist Who is that?

Winnetou

Winnetou is a fictional Native American hero of several novels written in German by Karl May (1842–1912), one of the best selling German writers of all time with about 200 million copies worldwide, including the Winnetou-tetralogy. Stories According to Karl May's story, first-person narrator Old Shatterhand encounters Winnetou and after initial dramatic events, a true friendship between Old Shatterhand and the Apache Winnetou arises; on many occasions they give proof of great fighting skill but also of compassion for other human beings. It portrays a belief in an innate "goodness" of ma...

Did you read Winnetou as a child?

tchrist

@Cerberus A Spanish-language translation of Richard Bach’s Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah.

@Cerberus Never heard of it.

Cerberus

Hmm.

I thought Winnetou was popular everywhere.

At least in the West.

Mitch

Winnetou is totally unknown in the US

or Karl May.

Cerberus

2:07 AM

@tchrist I don't know it. But why don't you just say "a Spanish translation"?

@Mitch That sounds very universal.

Mitch

It's like how no one in the US listens to Dixieland Jazz but it's really popular in Eastern Europe.

@Cerberus Haha. Yes. But it's OK. I know everything that other people know and what they don't know. My limitation is that I don't know everything I know. But of course that is not particular to me.

Cerberus

Oh, OK.

Thanks!!

Mitch

But anyway, Karl May's 'westerns' aren't currently well known, and there is quite a bit of old and new other 'Western/cowboy' stuff that it is drowned out.

Cerberus

> The total number of copies published is about 200 millions, half of this are German copies.

So lots of people read his books in other languages.

Mitch

@Cerberus I knew you'd be welcome. I didn't realize I'd be so gracious about it though. I surprise myself!

Cerberus

2:12 AM

You don't gno seauton very well, do you?

(I should probably say gnonai.)

Mitch

if by 'gno seauton' you mean 'nauseation' then no I don't.

!!notify 720 @Mitch I hope you're awake now.

Jarvis the Bot

@Mitch I didn't understand that. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

@Mitch I don't understand. Use the !!/help command to learn more.

Mitch

@Cerberus What does gnonai mean?

!!afk

Jarvis the Bot

@Mitch Stay safe.

Cerberus

Gnothi seauton (disambiguation)

Gnothi seauton may refer to: *Gnothi seauton, an ancient Greek aphorism (Greek: γνῶθι σεαυτόν), which means "know thyself" in English *"Gnothi Seauton", the second episode of the American television series Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. See also *Gnothi Seauton: Know Yourself, a 1734 poetry book by John Arbuthnot and others *Know thyself (disambiguation)

@Mitch It is the infinitive of gnothi.

tchrist

3:15 AM

@Cerberus They sure spell know thy funny with gnothi. :)

@Kris If someone doesn’t know something is in their own language, it makes no sense to ask about it in English. They should figure it out in their own language and then look up the translation. Identifying random objects that the querent simply has never happened to have seen before is outside the remit of English Language and Usage. — tchrist 1 min ago

Or perhaps I misunderstand.

Johan Larsson

5:33 AM

►

medica

9:09 AM

@MattЭллен, @AndrewLeach, @RegDwight - anyone here?

@JohanLarsson - I love that clip!

@MattЭллен, @AndrewLeach - Are we sure LePressentiment isn't being a touch aggressive in his persistent questions from that book?

user116848

9:24 AM

@medica Hi! medica

medica

Hey, @Arrowfar!

user116848

So I am bored. No one is here.

medica

Neither am I really. I'm elsewhere, mostly.

user116848

Where?

user116848

Some other SE site?

medica

9:28 AM

No, on this site mostly. But not in chat. And soon to leave. :(

user116848

Yeah I just come here to occasionally chat with someone or ask any grammar question :)

medica

:)

aaaaaaand I'm outta here! Have a good day/evening?
Bye, Arrowfar.

user116848

See ya!

fahdijbeli

10:13 AM

morning

Robusto

10:53 AM

0

Q: possessive case: "you and Bob's wedding"?

I understand that, if two nouns possess something, the possessive case is only applied to the second noun, i.e. it is "Alice and Bob's wedding". Following this rule, if I talk to Alice and refer to their wedding, would it be correct to say "you and Bob's wedding"? To my (non-native speaker's) s...

possessive

Dupe.

Andrew Leach

Yup.

At least "seafood collaboration dinner" is nice and easy to find!

Robusto

11:17 AM

There must be 50 or so questions that get asked over and over again. I wonder if it's possible to run a search for questions that have been closed multiple times, so we can simply look at that list to determine the canonical questions without having to guess at search terms. Sometimes the auto-suggest feature works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Andrew Leach

11:38 AM

select p.id as [Post Link],count(l.relatedpostid)
from posts p,postlinks l
where p.id=l.relatedpostid
and l.linktypeid=3
group by l.relatedpostid,p.id
order by 2 desc;

That returns over 2000. Change the first select to select top 100 for the first 100.

skullpatrol

kewl

Andrew Leach

11:53 AM

It does look as though the list could do with some rationalisation. There are at least three "a/an" questions. And other double-possessive questions like the collaboration dinner one.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…