English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

I think I should tell my boss, "I don't think this is a good fit. I want to do good work, the kind that doesn't involve hacking together a lot of shit in a few hours and calling that an app."

A Beautiful Mind

3:13 PM

@tchrist Say all you want. You can say ~!@#$.

tchrist

@Robusto This is the norm.

Robusto

Wah.

A Beautiful Mind

@tchrist Is it the Ari person again?

Robusto

I think I'll try one more company before I throw in the towel.

tchrist

I have done my work for the day:

0

A: Is 'her' a possesive or an objective pronoun in this sentence?

Just because something immediately follows a preposition does not mean that that thing must be an “object” form. For example: Give the prize to whoever comes in first without cheating. That’s a subject form not an object form, even though it immediately follows a preposition, because it’s ...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:15 PM

@KitZ.Fox Lol, the look on that other guy's face is priceless

infinitesimal

Are you ready for some footbaaaal @Robusto?

Kit Z. Fox

"Please send your response by tomorrow, Tuesday, January 31..." This tester is very trying to work with.

tchrist

I refuse to do battle with her FFFing 131-comment flamewars.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I know, right?

Robusto

@tchrist perlas delante de los cerdos

tchrist

3:16 PM

Así se las he echado.

Robusto

@infinitesimal Skull patrol?

infinitesimal

Yep

Robusto

Why you change you name so muuuch?

infinitesimal

Boredom.

Kit Z. Fox

@tchrist There. Stop talking to each other.

A Beautiful Mind

3:17 PM

Well, he doesn't change very often.

Robusto

@infinitesimal Get a new hobby.

terdon

I only now realized that was skull!

infinitesimal

:D

tchrist

@KitZ.Fox I swore her off more than once, but she won't stop talking to me. I have decided that the right action is to provide alternate answers as real answers.

But thank you.

Kit Z. Fox

@tchrist That's probably more productive and healthy for you.

tchrist

3:19 PM

I hope so.

Kit Z. Fox

I understand the urge, but it's just going to make you crazy.

tchrist

Yep. One more straw.

A Beautiful Mind

Just calm down.

Don't become like me.

Once you become me, it's hard to fix.

tchrist

I obviously need to post more answers.

infinitesimal

And you don't become like me.

A Beautiful Mind

3:21 PM

Yeah, that is perhaps unfixable?

tchrist

So that she will downvote those too and eventually trigger the reversal script.

infinitesimal

It is.

tchrist

Ah, there’s her downvote now. Predictability is a beautiful thing.

A Beautiful Mind

I like to talk about my enemies in chat too.

So I understand what you are doing now.

infinitesimal

We know.

:-P

Hanaa

3:23 PM

Oh

Robusto

So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Has smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller fleas to bite 'em.
And so proceeds Ad infinitum.

A Beautiful Mind

So there are many many fleas.

infinitesimal

How many?

tchrist

@ABeautifulMind First, the very notion of an “enemy” is an ugly, deceptive, and destructive one. Second, I name no names nor prisoners take.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox That's the main difficulty I find with him. He just comes across as a bit of a jerk. Not as far as Hutchens who was a total asshole.

@tchrist Name names!

Wait...so do your prisoners have names?

A Beautiful Mind

3:24 PM

@tchrist OK. I admit I have much hatred for many people.

Robusto

Do you mean Hitchens? If so, not a total asshole. Anyone who hated Mother Teresa can't be all bad.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch And also just kind of clueless to his dickishness, which somehow bothers me more.

Mitch

ha ha,...sorry Hitchens. I thought of him as a total asshole, even when I agreed with him.

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah.

A Beautiful Mind

I think I will need to find out about this Dawkins to understand why you all hate him.

Kit Z. Fox

3:26 PM

I don't hate him. I dislike him.

Mitch

@ABeautifulMind I don't think we hate him at all.

infinitesimal

They're all elitist.

Robusto

@ABeautifulMind I don't hate Dawkins. Anyone who does is probably a closet religionista.

Mitch

We just think he has a few flaws, despite the generally favored direction of his thoughts.

Kit Z. Fox

Right.

A Beautiful Mind

3:27 PM

Ah OK. Better to have flaws than fleas.

Kit Z. Fox

I like Stephen Fry, for instance, who shares similar views and is not a jerk.

tchrist

@Mitch nomen, nominis, nomini, nomen, nomine; nomina, nominum, nominibus, nomina, noinibus. Stat Roma pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.

terdon

I love him. Just as long as he keeps talking about science and religion and not women or society.

Mitch

It's a weird line, call shenanigans on religion or be polite.

Robusto

Today's poll: If you knew you had one minute to live, would you A: Apologize to god for your sins? B: Curse god for taking you so young? C: Reflect on what a long, strange trip it's been?

Kit Z. Fox

3:27 PM

@terdon I think he's an asshole about religion and that bothers me. His science is fluffy and uninspiring.

A Beautiful Mind

@Robusto C

terdon

@KitZ.Fox Huh? The selfish gene hypothesis is a wonderful tool.

infinitesimal

D

Kit Z. Fox

I think Stephen Fry handles it in a much better, more direct way, that comes across as less derisive and arrogant and shitty.

tchrist

@terdon He makes gaffs about women? I just find him funny, not insensitive or cruel or delusional apropos elles.

Kit Z. Fox

3:29 PM

@terdon I'd rather not get started on that.

A Beautiful Mind

@Robusto But if I knew it was my last minute, I would focus on trying to get reborn in the right place.

Robusto

That is beyond the scope of this poll.

terdon

@tchrist I don't remember the details. Only that he'd said some pretty dumb stuff on that subject.

@KitZ.Fox Um. Ok. But you called his science fluffy.

Kit Z. Fox

@terdon I feel it is fluffy.

terdon

You have a background in biology right?

Kit Z. Fox

3:30 PM

Yes.

A Beautiful Mind

It is said that the last thought before you die and the first thought when you are reborn determine much of your new life.

terdon

Grr, and you don't want to talk about it :)

Robusto

@tchrist Did you mean "gaffes"?

tchrist

Jasper, please try to stop fixating on death. For your sake.

@Robusto Yes.

Hanaa

@KitZ.Fox do you hate religious topics?

infinitesimal

3:31 PM

It is proven that what you think about the most is what you become @ABeautifulMind

A Beautiful Mind

@infinitesimal I doubt that.

Hanaa

I agree with you @infinitesimal

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist If we're talking about Dawkins, then yes. He has made many gaffes about women, and misunderstands feminism. He's a privileged white male who lacks enough introspection to understand his privilege. He's also rude and dismissive to people who try to explain it to him.

Robusto

@infinitesimal By that reasoning, if you think about women most of the time you become one?

A Beautiful Mind

@Hanaa We love such topics in this room. But I think it may become a bit uncomfortable for you.

infinitesimal

3:32 PM

Have you tried @ABeautifulMind?

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, about Stephen Fry.

terdon

Anyway, I also enjoy Dawkins very much. But then, I am very, very inimical towards organized religion. I feel it's one of the worst scourges ever visited upon the human race and find it very hard to treat people selling it politely. I find what they do anathema and would, for example, want to keep them the hell away from my hypothetical kids.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist Ah, well as to him, I don't know much.

The best approach is to treat all famous or opinionated people as potentially wrong about anything, and to agree with them when they're right and disagree when they're wrong. That way you can agree with Dawkins when he's right about biology or religon and disagree when he's wrong about sexism.

A Beautiful Mind

I don't know about Fry, and I don't fry anything either.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I’m opinionated.

terdon

3:34 PM

I assume you've all seen this. If you haven't, do (it's about language, not religion):

►

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist Yes, and famous.

And also sometimes wrong.

E.g. I think you were wrong about thinking terdon was referring to Fry.

terdon

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That would apply to anyone of course. Be they famous and opinionated or not.

Except me. I'm not famous, though I am opinionated, but you should always agree with me.

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 In the words of St Matts: Du sagst es.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@terdon Yes. But strangely, people seem to forget it sometimes.

infinitesimal

@Robusto if you think about women the most then they will rule your world.

Hanaa

3:36 PM

I agree with you @i

Robusto

@infinitesimal They don't already?

infinitesimal

Not mine.

Hanaa

Being opinionated is not good

A Beautiful Mind

I need to look up the dictionary on the meaning of opinionated.

infinitesimal

Having and voicing your opinion.

A Beautiful Mind

3:38 PM

Doesn't everyone do that?

infinitesimal

Some do, not all.

tchrist

How can we exercise good judgement?

infinitesimal

Good question^

Hanaa

You have an opinion,ok, but don't oblige the others to accept it@tchrist

terdon

@tchrist Take it out for a walk twice a day.

Hanaa

3:41 PM

Hhhh

tchrist

@Hanaa If you have a specific instance in mind, state it. Otherwise, I cannot see your point.

terdon

@ABeautifulMind It means having strong opinions on multiple subjects and carries the connotation that you are not open to the possibility that they can be wrong or that other people are entitled to theirs.

Hanaa

Yes you state it but don't oblige anyone to accept it@tchrist

Variety of opinions is never a problem

infinitesimal

Like a salesman trying to sell you his option.

tchrist

@Hanaa You seem to be bent on chastising me. Why?

Kit Z. Fox

3:43 PM

@Hanaa No, I don't. I usually avoid them.

tchrist

If you are just making general statements, you should not be aiming them at me personally.

Kit Z. Fox

I'm in the middle of stuff right now and can't keep an eye on it here.

tchrist

If you have a specific instance in mind, please state it. Otherwise, please do not keep using my name as a textbook example for your morality lessons.

infinitesimal

Buyer beware.

Hanaa

Ooooops

terdon

3:45 PM

I think she might have been aiming at me.

Hanaa

Calm down mr @tchrist. I haven't intended to chastise you at all

tchrist

I see.

We have a word for that.

We call her a hulder.

Hanaa

Lo!

I am just participating in the discussion

@tchrist has mentioned opinionated and i replied him

Andrew Leach

@Robusto Why not all three?

infinitesimal

But you made it personally directed at him, why?

He made a general statement @Hanaa

Hanaa

3:51 PM

Because he is the one who was speaking about being opinionated

infinitesimal

So @Hanaa just state your opinion, don't specifically ping him to tell him

terdon

He is though. To be fair, most of the regulars here are pretty opinionated.

That's a large part of what makes this chat room fun.

Hanaa

I wonder why he got angry

infinitesimal

You personally attacked him.

Hanaa

Attack!

infinitesimal

3:55 PM

You pinged him.

Hanaa

Why do you take my opinions as attacks?

Are we in a jungle?

Robusto

@AndrewLeach I would assume A and B are mutually exclusive.

infinitesimal

Because you used the ping @Hanaa

Hanaa

We are just discussing

infinitesimal

Then leave it as an "open discussion" :-)

No pings.

Robusto

3:56 PM

Sounds like rather more than discussing . . .

infinitesimal

Pings make it personal.

Hanaa

Ooooof @infinitesimal. All here use pings

Not only me

Any way i see bad interpretations here

I will never mention a name again

infinitesimal

But when they are talking to each other. Not discussing the definition of a bad trait.

Nobody likes to be called "opinionated"

terdon

I do!

infinitesimal

I give up.

terdon

4:00 PM

:)

Hanaa

Ok SORRY

infinitesimal

@tchrist^

Robusto

@infinitesimal BTW, in our family pool my nephew and I are tied for the season. I have elected to take the opposite of whatever his Super Bowl pick turns out to be. That way it avoids a tie and relieves me of the responsibility for jinxing the Pats.

Hanaa

SORRY 1million timesMr@tchrist

Kit Z. Fox

Enough.

infinitesimal

4:02 PM

That's fair @Robusto

Sea -2

Kit Z. Fox

We can discuss whether balrogs have wings. We can discuss the weather. But whatever we discuss, let's not discuss this any longer.

Robusto

Pats were the dogs yesterday. Make up your mind, Las Vegas.

infinitesimal

Vega$ always wins.

Kit Z. Fox

Right now, I'm trying to recollect how to use regex in Oracle.

terdon

@KitZ.Fox I feel like that's not the first time you've had to do that.

Kit Z. Fox

4:05 PM

It's not.

It's about the eighth time.

tchrist

►

Kit Z. Fox

I thought I knew how to do it, but I'm getting an invalid identifier error.

So I'm squinting for a typo.

tchrist

@KitZ.Fox That's an odd-sounding error.

Kit Z. Fox

@tchrist I typo'd the function name.

tchrist

That would do it.

regex or regexp or match or contains or like or pattern

Kit Z. Fox

4:09 PM

Um, OK, so it's not \n and not \t, so what's causing this weird line feed thing that I need to find?

tchrist

Microsoft?

Kit Z. Fox

Is there something else I can look for?

tchrist

Maybe there is a \r. Maybe there is a \f.

Kit Z. Fox

It's caused by a copypasta, I'm sure, but I don't know how to look at the special hidden characters.

tchrist

Grep for them.

Kit Z. Fox

4:10 PM

It's an oracle db.

tchrist

Sucks.

There is an incantation, but I'll never find it now.

Kit Z. Fox

Actually, oracle is pretty ok with regex.

"Windows style newlines (CR/LF)" is what I need to find.

Hanaa

What is a regex@KitZ.Fox?

Kit Z. Fox

Chr(10) chr(13) maybe.

Andrew Leach

If it's copied from Windows, then it's 13/10 (^M ^J) which I think is \r\n

tchrist

4:12 PM

\r\n

Kit Z. Fox

@Hanaa Regular expression. It's a way of matching up a sequence or pattern of symbols in strings.

For instance.

A good tool if you know how to use it, a nightmare if you don't.

Hanaa

Yes

Kit Z. Fox

OK, that's not what I'm looking for...

thinks

Hanaa

Good luck!

tchrist

[^ -~]

Kit Z. Fox

4:14 PM

Oh, I know. I have to find them only when they are surrounded by text.

user116848

Hi everyone!

user116848

Oh, serious discussions today.

Hanaa

Hi

@tchrist you have seen my mistake but you did not see my apoligize. great!

Kit Z. Fox

OK, well that's not it either. What is putting this break here?

user116848

Maybe someone can crack a joke?

Kit Z. Fox

4:19 PM

Which is CR?

My regex is borked.

Because I should be finding, I think, just one record that contains [CR] in the middle of text.

Andrew Leach

CR is 13 or \r

LF is 10 or \n

Kit Z. Fox

Thank you.

Andrew Leach

6

Q: Finding and removing non ascii characters from an Oracle Varchar2

We are currently migrating one of our oracle databases to UTF8 and we have found a few records that are near the 4000 byte varchar limit. When we try and migrate these record they fail as they contain characters that become multibyte UF8 characters. What I want to do within PL/SQL is locate thes...

Kit Z. Fox

OK. I've found at least four records in the corrupted file, so it's the \r causing the problem, so I need to adjust my regex.

@AndrewLeach Thanks.

Oh FFS. Got it. Thanks.

...oh. Weird. I got some but not all.

tchrist

4:52 PM

Possessives are determiners; they fit into the Determiner phrase, which hasta come before the Adjectives, which hafta come before the noun, which hasta come before the post-nominal modifiers: np[ [Eighteen or twenty of his] [weary, bedraggled, and filthy] retainers [who had stayed with him all this way] ]np vp[dismounted]vp._ — John Lawler 18 mins ago

Thank you, Professor Lawler.

This way I don’t have to talk to her. Not that I would have anyway.

Stack Exchange

5:03 PM

Limerick Machine: The peanuts have more energy Than chocolate alone does, you see Chocolate unfettered I prefer...

posted on January 30, 2015 by sgdi

The peanuts have more energy Than chocolate alone does, you see Chocolate unfettered I prefer better So those are the best ones for me

Kit Z. Fox

Well, @MattE.Эллен, don't you look smart today.

Matt E. Эллен

Why thank you @KitZ.Fox, you're looking mighty dapper yourself!

Kit Z. Fox

bows

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I feel like I should rename myself to Mr. Shiny A. New

Matt E. Эллен

:D

join the club!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:11 PM

whoa flag storm

Kit Z. Fox

Did I miss something?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I dunno. My flag count went up to 5 then disappeared. Of course now I want to go see the trainwreck and sneer at the flaggers.

Kit Z. Fox

Hmm. Hard to tell.

Matt E. Эллен

I missed it too

Kit Z. Fox

I was guessing The Bridge. It's packed.

But I see no evidence.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

5:17 PM

oh well.

Kit Z. Fox

And Ask Ubuntu has had some recent issues, but it's quiet there.

Hanaa

Hi

Kit Z. Fox

Hi.

I am tracking too much right now.

Noah

Hi

What are you tracking @KitZ.Fox

Kit Z. Fox

Work and play and other stuff all at once.

I'm a bit overwhelmed.

Noah

5:31 PM

Looks like everyone has got a new name

What do you use for your to-dos?

Matt E. Эллен

I use other people for my to-dos :D if something gets urgent enough for someone to ask me to do it, I'll do it :D

(also, Trac)

Cerberus

@JohnLawler: I was thinking, does he mean "arrow" or "until", and what is he trying to illustrate by using a different language? — Cerberus 9 secs ago

Matt E. Эллен

@Cerberus I don't get it

do I have to read the answer to get it?

Cerberus

Nope.

Just the comment.

He said "hasta", which my brains had trouble parsing.

Matt E. Эллен

oh! :D

yeah, Lawler talks like that sometimes

didja not notice that in his other comments?

Kit Z. Fox