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12:18 AM
@JohanLarsson Hey, that's Dutch.
Looks pretty convenient.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:47 AM
@Cerberus You should get one for your apartment.
 
@Robusto Do I need to pave it?
 
As long as you pay for it, they don't care.
 
Are you not snowed in yet?
Can they get the machine inside my house?
The front door is about 1m wide.
 
They'll just tear an opening large enough.
@Cerberus So groß eine Túr?
 
And miles to go before he sleeps.
 
1:51 AM
My precious walls! I've had them for 400 years! Or the city has.
 
Sounds like they need refurbishing.
 
Ja, so gigantisch.
Why isn't your power offline yet, your Internet connection down?
 
What, did he get more snow?
It was only a couple and a half feet last I checked.
We don't even lose power at twice that, as I can attest from several such events here.
 
And my cousin got eleven feet the storm I got five, because he lived up in the mountains just then.
 
1:53 AM
That enough snow for you?
 
Doesn't seem too bad. You can see over the edge.
My kitties would not be pleased though.
 
Pix or it didn't happen.
 
He had a second-storey exit, so was ok.
 
Anytime the snow is higher than the hopper on the snowblower it's way too much snow.
 
I don't think we got more than seven feet down here.
Well, all at once I mean.
 
1:56 AM
@Robusto Ah, nice.
Looks like fun.
 
Fun?
 
If you don't need to go places.
 
These things happen to the best of families.
 
Sex is fun. Drinking scotch is fun. Party games are fun. Even coding is fun. But clearing snow is most definitely not fun.
 
@tchrist Oh, only seven? That is nothing.
 
1:57 AM
Why clear it? Just put on your snow shoes.
 
@Robusto It is fun if you don't have to clear it.
 
Do what they do in Wisconsin and take the snowmobile downtown at need.
 
@tchrist I live 15 miles from where I work. To get there I need my car to run. Snowshoes won't get 'er done.
 
Snowmobile.
 
What if you only have a bike?
 
2:02 AM
Snowmobike
 
Where can I get one?
 
> You can now read 56.2% of all real Spanish text
 
I suppose I could walk on the snow with snow shoes, but it would take an hour to get to work.
 
I hate snowmobiles. Noisy, smelly, stupid vehicles.
 
Snowmobike.
Notice how safe he is: he's wearing his helmet even though he's just biking.
 
2:06 AM
What the...
 
@Robusto When we got buried, I saw a guy with a dog-sled on his way downtown with a team of huskies.
 
Not my idea of a civilized environment.
 
Morlocks and related urban troglodytes need fear no snow, for they never venture out of their subterranean caves.
 
I am suburban, not urban. But I get outdoors more than most.
No tengo flamencos rosados.
 
2:15 AM
I'm kind of surprised that duolingo is actually not bad. I find myself remembering more than I expected.
 
It's because your wife has been secretly whispering to you in Spanish in your sleep.
 
Heh, you don't know my wife.
She can't even speak Japanese.
 
Ok, in her sleep then.
 
@tchrist 'tis True, the city is always cleared.
@tchrist Hilarious.
 
She also studied German more years than I did, but remembers none of it. I still remember some.
I don't know how you can forget an entire language like that. I guess it just didn't take.
 
2:18 AM
There are data about that, some semi-surprising.
 
How semi?
 
Basically, by age 50, no language you learned in high school remains, and if in college, a few words. UNLESS you actually majored in it; then you retain more. But the only people it really sticks to have lived in an immersive environment.
 
Hi everyone
 
@tchrist Define "learned."
 
Took classes in.
 
2:20 AM
Well, I still remember some Russian after having only one year of it.
German I remember best because I worked over there for a time.
 
Is the a word to describe a song that was played way too many times?
 
Tiresome.
 
Japanese I remember because I studied it in my 30s for five years.
 
@Robusto See? Exactly!
 
Well, duh.
It's because you experience the entire fabric of the culture in that language. You're not just doing exercises.
 
2:22 AM
Example: "I entered the store. The radio way playing [insert noun here]."
 
We don't think about how many assumptions we make about situations based on the language we are speaking.
 
@Szabolcs No one word.
 
@tchrist It can be a phrase but it need to fit in this context.
 
an overplayed song
 
I may have said this before here, but one thing that surprised me was that situations that happened in German I found hard to translate later on when relating them to American friends, because the attitudes and assumptions of the people in those situations were so bound up in the Germanness of the whole thing. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but I feel like that must be a thing.
 
2:25 AM
I can think of things like that.
 
That are hard to explain if you haven't lived there, cultural norms and expectations.
 
Yes.
 
@KitFox Ouch!
 
For you, my friend.
That is all.
 
2:26 AM
I like that Spanish has double negatives.
 
@Robusto Do you speak Chinese?
 
Mi habitación no tiene ninguna ventana.
@Szabolcs Nope.
 
@Robusto Technically, it’s negative concordance.
 
wevs
 
All Romance works that way.
I have this potentially phantom memory that there is an album out there of Pachelbel's Canon in D with each track as if it had been written by some other famous composer: Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Debussy, Copeland.
 
2:31 AM
But where did French get ne . . . pas from?
 
Oh that. That's another tale indeed.
Note that it is also ne . . . jamais and ne . . . rien and ne . . . personne &c&c&c.
19
Q: Why does French use a "split negative"?

Tom AuI'm referring to such constructions as ne [verb] pas, ne [verb] que, ne [verb] jamais, etc. In Spanish, the negative precedes the verb: No lo quiero. In Anglo-Saxon languages, the negative follows the (helping) verb: I do not like that. Doch das Messer, sieht man nicht. So do the two dif...

But "je ne sais rien" is the same as "no sé nada", so it is not as different as he claims. The extra pas when you don't need another negative word is the weird thing.
> English summary: in old French, ne was used alone, and it still can sometimes. Quickly additional words were used to emphasize. Nowadays those additional words often must be used. While they hadn't a negative meaning at the start, they acquired one and may now be used in some contexts without ne in their negative meaning.
 
Hence my question.
 
I believe it is because of reduction: ne is hard to hear.
 
But in French you can negate with just the pas. "Pas de café, s'il vous plait."
 
Nada de café, por favor.
Yes, you can.
 
2:36 AM
Dutch used to have double negation too.
En...niet.
 
And the infinitive negated is weird.
 
But pas ain't an n-word.
 
ne pas savoir
 
En was dropped in the 17th century.
But niet means something like "not, nothing" intrinsically, so the result is quite rational.
Unlike ne...pas.
 
In Spanish, you do not reduce anything. So no is strong enough. In French, stuff gets really reduced, so they need a stressed word to make sure you hear the non.
 
2:38 AM
You mean hear the ne?
I'm not sure.
 
It’s one theory.
 
IE has always had negation by means of a simple nasal.
 
I’m not saying it is a settled matter.
6
A: Why does French use a "split negative"?

CirceusIn the oldest time, you could have the "strong" form non, hence nonobstant, nonchalant, non-recevoir... But the most common form of the negation was in fact ne alone. Eventually emphatic elements were added, which varied depending on context: Je ne mange mie ("I don't eat a crumb"), je ne vois go...

 
Sometimes the nasal is vocalised, but the result is usually not that much longer than French ne.
 
So tell me how to know when to say ese and when to say aquel.
 
2:39 AM
Trivial.
1st person = esto cerca de mí; 2nd person = eso cerca de ti; 3rd person = aquello cerca de Cerberus.
 
Similar to da/dort in German?
 
No, three grammatical grades corresponding to the three persons.
Close to me, close to thee, close to neither thee nor me.
 
Oh.
This, that, that over there?
 
Yes.
 
So it's like Japanese kochira/sochira/achira.
 
2:41 AM
yon
yonder
 
kore/sore/are . . . etc.
 
We lost it.
Deixis varies greatly between languages.
Iberian languages preserve three grades.
Italian does too, IIRC.
French doesn't really.
ceci and cela is pretty much all you get: cette chose ci, cette chose là.
Oh, you need to know something important.
There are also three grades of here/there.
esto aquí; eso ahí; aquello allí.
There are also acá and allá forms for less precise things, more areas than points.
There is no 2nd-person version with -á though.
ahí is pronounced the same as English aye. So "por ahí" means "out there", but not like "por allá" which is way further away.
"Ven para acá" means "Come over (by, around, near) here". "Ven aquí" is more precise, demanding you come to this very point.
"más allá" means "beyond".
Or further away.
The point is that you have three grades: yo/cerca de mí/aquí/esto, tú/cerca de ti/ahí/eso, otra persona/cerca de él/allí/aquello. It all fits together.
 
Starred so I will remember it.
 
Translation requires handwaving, because we don't think like that in English.
 
And the point of learning a language is not to translate but to explore it for what it is unrelated to what you know.
 
2:52 AM
Yes, translation is always paraphrasing. It takes me much, much longer to read something in Spanish to someone if I have to pronounce it aloud in English than it takes me to read and understand it, spoken or not, without translation.
 
It's like sight-reading in a lot of ways.
 
Well, sight-reading with on-the-fly key-transposition. :)
 
You get a sense of the music from the score, and your fingers find the keys. You don't think, 'Okay, this is an A, that's a C#, that's an E.'
you just see an A-major triad.
 
Yes, keyboardists come to that more easily than others.
You also have to feel the line in the x-axis not just the harmony in the y-axis, if that makes any sense.
 
That's where voice-leading comes from.
Or where it comes in.
 
2:56 AM
I still read fake books incredibly quickly compared to "real" music.
Because all I need is the melody and the chord-name.
 
Yeah, but how inventive are you with inversions? Or do you find yourself just making round chords in the left hand?
 
You need to invert sometimes for it to sound ok.
All 1-3-5 or 1-3-5-7 will drive you nuts.
 
Yes, but you also need to think about a bass line, and when to fill in partials, etc.
 
I don't know how to describe it very well. I know I do other little things with my left hand when I am doing that kind of reading.
 
Chords outlined in time, you mean.
Arpeggiated I guess is what I mean. Duh.
But not really arpeggiated if they're in the bass.
 
3:00 AM
Yes: I tend to break them, or break and invert them, but sometimes you do a bit more than that.
Especially when you are leaning on something that is about to be a cadence.
It's not called the leading tone for nothin'. :)
 
Yes. And it makes for easy modulations.
Just raise the fourth step in the scale and you can modulate to the dominant.
 
Yup.
 
La voila.
 
My piano teacher in college once said that virtually almost every chord sounds better slightly broken. That may be why so many things end with big arpeggios.
I have no choice a lot of times: I can't hit a 10th.
Tiny hands.
 
I can hit some 10ths sometimes.
But not reliably.
 
3:04 AM
Liszt was a monster.
 
I can do no white-to-white tenths.
Apparently @Reg has Liszt hands. He says he can do twelfths.
Which is obscene.
 
That's almost hard to believe.
 
I would have to see it.
 
Perhaps he is really Rasputin.
 
Although perchance he was talking about the accordion.
 
3:06 AM
heh
 
Or that other instrument, the Russiain one.
 
I cannot abide computer keyboards whose keys are the "wrong" distance apart.
 
May 16 '13 at 12:29, by RegDwighт
This bayan thing weighs a ton.
 
Well, that would hardly count.
 
@tchrist I don't know of any. All my digital keyboards have been real size.
 
3:11 AM
Getting late: I'm going to go play some. Makes me sleep more peacefully later.
 
Later.
 
Ajuu.
> It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool rather than to speak out and remove all doubt.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:16 AM
Good night. I leave you with Barber.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:51 AM
@RegDwigнt - do you happen to have a link to the SE "style guide" by any chance? A new user asked for it and if you know it, it will save me a lot of searching. Thanks.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:57 AM
> Using a middle initial :)
 
 
2 hours later…
@Cerberus it's better to learn something by asking questions than fear looking a fool.
 
 
1 hour later…
Jez
11:43 AM
hey, when someone says "I'm going to lunch at 12:00", do you instinctively interpret "lunch" as a noun or a verb?
 
Today my mum will be back early.
@Jez Noun.
 
that's good. have they finished moving office?
 
Not yet.
 
Jez
yeah, i'd interpret it as a noun too. but paired with "to", it ought logically to be thought of as a verb there
unless "lunch" is a location
 
11:53 AM
a location in time
 
Jez
of course, with "for lunch" it more naturally a noun
in time? meh
 
An event.
I am going to dinner, for example.
I am going to dine, for example.
 
Jez
"dine" is a verb
 
The first is the noun, the second the verb.
 
Jez
:-)
i'm not sure i'd say "going to dinner"
 
11:54 AM
It just happens that lunch is both noun and verb.
 
Jez
maybe if i was being lazy i would, but i'd probably say "going for dinner", "having dinner", or something
 
I say going to dinner all the time.
 
"going to dinner" sounds fine to me
 
Oh, yeah, I usually say going for dinner.
 
Jez
@ABeautifulMind by the way, i saw on a Vsauce video that Singapore is actually based on a misnomer
the guy who named it singapore thought he saw a lion but it was actually a tiger
 
11:55 AM
@Jez I am not interested in anything to do with my location.
 
Jez
Singapore is based on a Malay word for lion
 
@Jez Strange that Jez is short for Jeremy.
My mum is back, I will go to/for dinner now, lol.
 
:D
@Jez what would you say lunch is in "out to lunch"?
I can't decide
in the literal meaning, rather than the figurative.
I think it's probably a verb
 
12:56 PM
@MattE.Эллен Sure. As with all sayings, apparent wisdom is really mediocre advice.
I just thought it was funny.
 
@Cerberus yes :D
 
When did you change your name @MattE.Эллен
@MattE.Эллен I would say noun.
 
about 20 minutes ago
I wanted to look more intelligent
as per @Cerb's diagram
 
There is a math professor called Matthew Emerson in U Chicago.
 
@MattE.Эллен Oh haha, I see it now.
I'm wearing my glasses.
 
1:09 PM
excellent. :D
 
Do you wear glasses?
I wear them when I go out.
 
Only in the morning and evening when I'm at home.
 
I wear them when I'm not looking at a screen close up
or eating
or reading
 
So...never?
 
:D mostly when I'm walking around, or watching something not on a computer
 
1:12 PM
What are those things you speak of?
puzzled faces
consults encyclopaedia
I thought those things were only done in plays.
 
Hello @infinitesimal skullpatrol.
 
@MattE.Эллен what is this 'not on a computer' of which you speak? Do you mean like with your eyes in real life?
 
@MattE.Эллен What do you understand by depression? Just what you think offhand. Don't read Wikipedia or anything.
 
stops reading wikipedia
 
1:15 PM
@Mitch In what?
 
I think 'in real life' is when ... Things hurt more often?
 
@ABeautifulMind depression is a disease that is characterised as being in a depressive state for long periods of time, typically for no easily explicable reason. It can be fatal.
or it's a weather condition
or a economic condition
 
Or economic
 
Or a lower area in the landscape.
 
@MattE.Эллен OK. I think it is my depression that is preventing me from making progress.
 
1:17 PM
Or geographical
 
Poor Mitch.
 
Jinx
 
Even your jinx was slower and shorter.
 
I know. I can't type or read fast enough
 
we all understand what datetime means then why its not a word
 
1:18 PM
@ABeautifulMind yes, depresison often reinforces states of helplessness
 
Hey this time you had more letters!
 
@Mitch me neither
 
@CustomizedName I have no idea what it means.
 
@Cerberus let me check if am in right room then
 
This is the English room.
 
1:19 PM
I like the word 'dysphoria' because it describes exactly the feeling of the opposite of euphoria in only one word. Just feeling like shit.
 
@CustomizedName It's not a word because people don't use it often enough so that it enters dictionaries.
 
Haha made you check which room you're in
It's not even a technical term
 
It's a convenient label for a field that mostly tells you what it means
 
a word-is-it?
 
1:21 PM
Are proper names considered 'words'?
 
@MattE.Эллен On some days I feel OK, but on other days I feel extremely tired, confused, anxious, guilty and hopeless. This is apart from my OCD and PTSD. Does that sound like depression to you?
 
Like 'Alice'?
 
@ABeautifulMind yes
 
@ABeautifulMind There are thousands of words people don't use often, but they are in dic
 
There are degrees of everything. Mild vs deep depression and all in between
 
1:22 PM
@Mitch [define: word]
 
Cholera. I don't think there are degrees of that.
 
@MattE.Эллен OK. I did not ask my shrink for my formal diagnosis. I know it definitely includes OCD, but I think PTSD and MDD also apply.
 
@infinitesimal 1) dictionaries don't capture all the meaning of a word (ie all dictionaries are wrong just some less than others)
 
they are a good place to start
 
VerySoonWeGoingToDestroySpaceCharacter
 
1:24 PM
2) don't you find it a bit circular for a word defined to define the word 'word'?
 
everything is ultimately circular
 
not my hand. my hand is hand shaped
 
high five at Matt E. :D
 
I am going to take a nap, I will come back later.
 
later pal
 
1:29 PM
I love naps
 
high-fives
I want to take a nap, but I'm at work
 
Work really gets in the way of a lot
Do a power nap.
 
people can see me
i'd get found out
 
Say you're meditating with vakra shanda yoga, and that you marketing behavior analyst/guru advised a meditation technique that blabla blabla and put ten bottles of energy drink on your desk, 7 obviously empty
 
1:32 PM
People will be intimidated
'Man he's so hardcore'
 
now I need ten empty energy drink bottles...
I could scrounge through the bins
 
Protip: make it so people barge in on you in the office kitchen while doing three push ups but counting out loud to 300.
 
so impressive!
 
Exactly
 
Jez
wow, sudden snow
 
1:37 PM
Huh. You must have gotten ours a day after.
Are you north or south?
 
Jez
central really
oh, i'm in the UK
 
I'm joking. There's no way a weather pattern in the east us could make it all the way there
 
I guess it'll be coming my way soon, then :(. I hope it doesn't turn to rain
 
I think a US hurricane once made it rain a tiny but extra once there
Snow looks better than rain and not as messy
 
Jez
based on the weather, they should move Christmas forward a month
 
1:40 PM
But rain doesn't shut things down
 
Jez
tons of big old snowflakes
 
Xmas is hardly ever white. I thing the song messed up all our expectations
 
@Mitch but snow doesn't make me nearly as wet as I cycle home
 
Jez
wouldn't wanna cycle in this
 
I'm dreaming of a white Christmas / Something I'm unlikely to see
 
1:42 PM
If prefer not to cycle in snow or rain
 
Jez
it's fun looking up into the sky
the snowflakes almost look like a huge number of birds or insects
 
@Jez aye. I still don't relish the thought.
 
Jez
great. now everyone's discussing leaving and working from home
 
Yeah looking straight at where the snow is coming from is a strangle mind bending experience, all these white things just appearing so slowly out of slight less white.
 
Jez
1:47 PM
this is sod's freaking law
i bet they're all gonna work from home tomorrow, and i booked a day off!
what a waste
 
you should only look at snow thorugh a pinhole camera, or is that snow should only be dancing on the head of a pin?
 
The worst
You can't reschedule your day off?
 
Jez
nah, too late now, it's been approved
heh, there's a guy meant to be fitting a new garage door for me tomorrow
been waiting for weeks for that
 
Well supposedly people will be 'working' from home
 
Jez
i bet he doesnt turn up
 
1:50 PM
How bad is it supposed to snow there?
 
Jez
quite badly i think
 
12 in?
 
@Matt Ẅɦƴ ðøñť ɏṏᶙ Эŋᵹɭıſɦɝȥ ẘȑịƭӭ ƃĕȶȶǝʁ‽
 
Jez
not that much
 
If you aren’t measuring your snowfall in feet, then it’s not bad.
 
1:52 PM
It's sleeting here. worst of both worlds
 
Jez
waɪ doʊnt yoo ɪŋglɪʃ raɪt bɛtər?
 
@tchrist I write it as well as I can :p
 
We had two days in the 60s bookending two in the 70s, but I hear that come Saturday we’ll get the crunchy white stuff again.
 
I think one undeniable aspect of American exceptionalism is that we have the worst natural disasters. Hurricanes, tornadoes, fires, maybe floods. We have earthquakes galore but those aren't the worst of the world.
 
Jez
that road's already looking slippery as hell
how am i gonna get home
then again i live pretty close
 
1:53 PM
The road to hell is paved with melting snowballs.
 
Also income inequality. Ha ha we win!
A little melting makes the snowballs pack better.
 
@Mitch Do you really believe that?
 
About snowballs? Totally yes. Better aerodynamics
 
Jez
snow has lightened a little, but we probably have 1-2 cm of snow now
 

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