Hi

Unless you kill each other in the Peter Jackson manner, two hours of slaughter with not a drop of blood.

@Cerberus How was your run?

@tchrist Depends on how you define colour.

@AndrewLeach Probably not.

wait, what on earth is colour

@PhonicsTheHedgehog I have survived!

@GeorgePompidou it's ours as opposed to yours.

@GeorgePompidou If you define it as "reflecting or emitting light of a frequency between x and y", then it is a property of an object.

I know everything in Amercica has to be an or. Even scientific facts.

If a tree falls in an empty forest...

Do not speak to me of Americaca!

No, I’m afraid this is something completely different.

@Cerberus so if I define it as a property, then it is a property? Marvellous.

@Cerberus Nice

@RegDwigнt That is the crux of many "problems": it all depends on your definition, and it is really a non-issue.

Sound and light are waves

But that is not color.

Even a twelve year old knows that.

Two things of precisely the same HSV values, or CMYK or RGB or whatever your model is, can in fact be different colors.

@RegDwigнt A Very Important and Recurrent Problem with things people say is that they think an utterance has a very clear and distinct meaning while in fact it rare does.

Color is a property of light.

Little then does it avail you to measure such things.

That is one definition.

Color cannot be something an object has, it's something that the object is clearly parting with.

Says who?

What it has is the exact opposite.

@skullpatrol No, it is not. Hue is a property of light, its spectral frequency. Color is a property of the human mind.

@Cerberus Says your eyes.

It is almost pointless to insist on one definition over another.

I am not insisting. I am eating.

What fools these morsels be!

@tchrist Anything is a property of the human mind, especially fundamentals like space and time. See Kant.

So you're just saying he's right.

Even a half bright twelve year old learns this in Physics class

Measurements are what matter

@RegDwigнt Easier to bear a root canal without anaesthesia than it is to prise that statement from him, and less painful.

That's why pizza >> talk.

Don’t make me have thrown the codebook at you again.

@tchrist So I was right. An object has a colour, but it needs someone to determine what that colour is. And different people may come up with different colours.

@AndrewLeach If objects have color, then where does that go when the sun goes down?

Take care, lest you should drag metamerism into the admixture.

@tchrist same gray level, so technically the same color

@kwak Oh, so color means grey level? What is grey level again?

The perceived colour changes. It still has colour. The perceived colour depends on what light it's reflecting as well as what is receiving the reflected light.

It makes sense to say " A stop sign IS red"

summons the marauding metameres from the spectral interstices of reality to tear your world apart

@tchrist there are surjective functions like rgb2gray(image) in matlab for example, just gray level between 0 and 255, instead of 3 colors mix

@kwak So grey level is a non-negative whole number smaller than 256? Odd, we usually call that an octet where I’m from.

@RegDwigнt I'm saying the discussion is pointless.

It should be on a higher level, but it's not.

You can't get any higher than Kant.

Sure you can!

Pissant.

De bovenkant.

By the way, kant means both "lace" and "side" in Dutch.

@Cerberus Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi.

Waterkant.

My friend has a large book with "Kant" on the back in giant letters. I kept thinking it was about the philosopher.

A lace made of water.

@tchrist Quis est bos?

@RegDwigнt It could mean that, in theory!

@Cerberus mu

Wait let me rgb2gray the Adelson checkerboard to show you

Bah not with the Latin again.

@tchrist No Japanese in this Latin chat! Tu!

You gonna talk Latin, at least have the decency to spell in in Cyrillic.

@kwak The dark flame will not avail you!

@tchrist we call it byte where I live

If only I could type in Cyrillic...

My point.

No decency at all. None.

@kwak Upon which golden tablet is it writ that the bits which a byte holdeth number ever eight, never six nor nine?

@RegDwigнt Blame the little soft one!

If only had been macrofirm...

@RegDwigнt Κύριλλος

@Cerberus mu is greek

alpha beta gamma delta epsilon

@Cerberus There is no tu in Japanese. The syllable is tsu.

@kwak But also Japanese. The Japanese word was much more appropriate.

@Robusto But there is in Latin!

You're all mixing up languages!!

No U!

zeta eta theta iota kappa lambda

We all no the Greek alphabet!

@Robusto NOU

@Robusto wait what now, no u or no tu?

Well, nou is two syllables in Japanese.

So it is in English!

You say that nou.

No

That's enow.

I no nothing

mu nu xi omicron pi rho sigma tau upsilon phi chi psi omega

Can I get an omega?

Why go all the way to psi without finishing?

Better.

okok

so Greek alphabet is like Latin alphabet scrambled, Zeta would be at the end

Wow, the Skype client suddenly got monetized within an inch of its life. I wonder if you can install an Adblock extension.

@RegDwigнt That is an imperfect analogy, depending on your definition of christianity.

@Reg that is exactly what the German woman was yelling when being raped by 12 men. So 3 left.

@Robusto all my analogies is imperfect. Future perfect continuous analogies are available for a fee.

Thank you for that, um, er, checks, ladydude!

It seems to be lacking chaps, fellows, lads, lassies, mates, and a whole lot more.

Yes. Mandog is right.

Semper, Legorhino.

Oper.

OK I must go again, BAI!

CU

Later

poof

mmmm. in Romanian for a genitive clause with an adjective, sometimes the adjective becomes genitive form and not the noun.

so, I'm wondering (in terms of English) what makes this adjective special

in this particular case, if I were to say something belonging to "an other building" "other" would become genitive. but if I said to "a red building" then "building" would be genitive and red normal.

so what is "other"? is it even an adjective?

No idea about Romanian. Ping @JSBձոգչ on that, he'll know.

I thought it would be equivalent. but I guess it isn't

in this case, "other" seems more like an article in Romanian

than it does an adjective.

Well everyone calls things adjectives in English that aren't.

For most people it's a catch-all term for "anything that comes before a noun".

so what is "other"

Where now, Romanian or English?

in English we still say "an other car" whereas in Romanian there's no indefinite article needed. "other" becomes the indefinite article.

in English

It can be an adjective alright, but also just a determiner.

But JSB will correct me anyway.

okay.

The current lingo is "modifier" I think.

a mod.

Adjectives have to have specific characteristics. Like comparative/superlative, and other stuff I forgot.

That is sometimes possible with "other", but not always.

last time I was home, someone called me a mod pejoratively.

oh yeah? well I'm otherest.

Most other.

Not to be confused with [most] [other].

See, it's confusing.

So I'll just wait for a qualified opinion.

Most otter.

echo… echo… echo…

Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo.

You can't just stop at that point in the sentence.

sure I can.

without requiring extra words, I have to.

Oh you mean you quoted the last part of the sentence, not the first one.

Then it's indeed okay.

Minus the capitalization, of course.

oh, yeah.

Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.

Thank you.

I don't understand the first part; doesn't it need "that" to make sense?

No.

why do people leave that out and are just like "oh this works too, it just doesn't have 'that'"

Products [that] people buy. Stuff [that] I eat. Clothes [that] we wear. Buffalo [that] buffalo buffalo.

oh!

Why the hell did I just spell "no" as "know"?

that makes so much sense, yet I cannot wrap my mind around it.

probably you have a tumor.

in your brain.

Thank you for that, too.

I looked at @JSBձոգչ and am reading his articles on Romanians on his site.

they're so spot on, haha.

especially about asking for money.

my mom came to the US and became super successful, and every time we go on vacation to visit family in Romania all she gets is pestered for money.

by family nonetheless.

reads more

follows suit

at least this first one I'm reading is great.

Link please

jsbangs.com/2011/07/21/visitors-guide-to-romanian-racism

Thank you :-)

it may seem a lot like he's generalizing too much… but oddly enough, I see it as completely appropriate. because it's just such a large amount of Romanians that fit what he's saying

I only know like half a dozen Romanians personally.

Well, not counting Moldovans.

And by Romanian standards they are all insanely rich themselves, so I can't compare.

and when it comes to misogyny, it's not even a generalization. I think misogyny may even be Romanian on some deeper level.

my parents get ripped apart by Romanians in the way JS describes how 'westerners' do, and even before they emigrated, for intellectual Romanians it's difficult to blend in in the first place. since such a small amount go to higher education (by their extremely merit based system) they get alienated.

> for some reason Uncle Tom’s Cabin is quite popular in translation there

@JSBձոգչ it's quite popular in translation everywhere east of Berlin.

Don't ask why.

I never read it myself. I was told it was not very literary.

Me neither.

I don't even know what it is.

The book that started the American civil war.

> Romanians who have never been abroad get most of their ideas about America from movies and television. Think about that for a moment.

spot on.

continues reading, with a smirk

Oh wow a link to MetaFilter. That dates you, JSB.

And that comment dates me.

What's a popular book west of Berlin @RegD ?

@skullpatrol probably some Dan Brown shit. shudders

hahaha

on that note, @RegDwigнt

I was trying to explain to someone why I think higher of myself because I'm reading [so and so book] and he's reading a Dan Brown book and couldn't do it. I just didn't know what to say.

any ideas?

But I've no idea what's popular in France or Belgium or the NL. And as far as Germany is concerned, they read a lot of really good stuff there. Interspersed with really horrible stuff like Dan Brown. In sum: I can't tell.

"think higher of myself" isn't right, but I hope you know what I mean.

I was just basically trying to say that I'm reading a real book and he's reading a television series.

@GeorgePompidou sadly no, because I've never read a Dan Brown book myself. But that would be my advice to you: go read one. Then you could easily argue your point.

or something. I have no idea how to phrase it.

I did read one

and I can't explain why I don't consider it literature. it's just…

I read that davinci thing

in a few days

That's why I keep watching movies I know for a fact are crap. To be able to convince even the most devoted fanboi that they are crap.

it was very… it was a very modern hollywood movie.

it was… interesting. it definitely captivated me the way something like… 24 or Lost would captivate me.

not really beneficial or… good, just… I want to continue reading.

I just can't phrase what makes Dan Brown really awful.

Well. You could just check for literary techniques. Like polysyndethons.

That's how you can tell Ursula Le Guyn from Rowling.

also, there were a few obvious typos or word omissions. and something like the it's/its confusion but not that.

Or you could just have a quick look at the sentence structure. That totally sufficed for me when I tried reading "A Game of Thrones".

which is just strange, because usually you have editors for that.

exactly! Dan Brown appealed to me like Game of Thrones did

which, incidentally, is the same way smoking pot appeals to me.

it's just mindless fun.

Perhaps that's the problem, that it still did appeal to you on some level. It didn't appeal to me at all.

So I find it easier to argue the point it's not good.

so do it then.

have you ever been to a water park or on a roller coaster? or done drugs? or anything that is fun but not at all constructive, productive, artistic, athletic, or "human" in any way?

that's what Dan Brown is.

My life is all that and nothing else. I'm basically a child.

But a good kidder.

I can't find the quote where I explained my beef with A Game of Thrones to Cerberus.

So I might as well just paraphrase. Basically the structure of every sentence is exactly the same. You don't notice it immediately, but once you do, you can't unsee it. And it becomes immensely boring to read.

I got bored of the television show. which says something to that tune as well.

John said X. Paul looked grimly. They rode on. Lights shone in the dark. The winter was coming.

Subject predicate subject predicate subject predicate.

It gets extremely tiring very quick.

Noun verb noun verb noun verb for us 12 year olds.

Compare that to Le Guin's writing, where every damn sentence is completely different from every other sentence in that chapter.

I don't know how she does it. But it is so.

uh oh. I'm at a section about gypsies.

my grandma hates gypsies.

reads more passionately

Now, the thing is that of course you don't need to be a good writer to be a great writer. Dostoyevski couldn't write his way out of a wet paperbag. He was abysmal. He was shit. But he happened to be a great psychologist, or at least an excellent observer. So it is immensely interesting what he writes, even though it's physically painful how he writes it.

But Dan Brown has neither. Neither form nor content.

It's fast food.

gypsies are khajits.

Right. Now let me go back to reading myself.

Also I have to go to bed early today, to be prepared for the early-morning LEGO shopping tomorrow.

@RegDwigнt that's what I said but worded better and only using a few words.

@GeorgePompidou then perhaps if he still didn't get it brevity was precisely the problem.

haha @ question titled "How to understand this sentence"

that's more for philosophy.

"Correctly, that's how". Next question.

but how do you understand

how do you throw a football

I have slaves for that.

how do you poop

That sums it up.

okay, his section on gypsies I find understated.

not only are the stereotypes he mentions closer to factual truths than they are stereotypes, it's even worse than that.

they mutilate their children to get more pity from people on the streets.

some of them steal enough to become filthy rich, by western standards even.

and they get away with it, and still steal.

they're a pretty huge problem for Romanians overall.

The most interesting thing about Romania I have heard so far, and in a documentary I saw on Romanian television no less, was just how much everyone was into fortune-telling and other superstitious stuff. Like the most successful and rich people are fortune tellers. They live in villas the size of a LEGO factory, and eat caviar three times a day, all from money they get from piss-poor people for telling them their future.

yep.

though, those fortune tellers probably also mutilated their children to beg.

laughs heartily at the draft article

this is literally my biggest problem visiting family in Romania

how on earth can he be so accurate about Romania?!

this guy's clever.

he's exactly right about everything. I've never read multiple opinion articles with which I have such few disagreements.

You should read his conlang stuff, then.

my biggest problem going to Romania: they finally installed air conditioning on some of the more expensive trains, so I was very excited. I started requesting specifically to go on those new air conditioning trains, because I hate heat and stagnant air. every single one I went on had the air conditioning disabled, because of too many complaints about the draft.

they say mă trage which is an expression specifically meaning I am bothered by the draft

they have a literal expression for that.

JSB should have included that in his article. I think it shows just how ingrained in everyone it is.

Well, I'm taking my leave for tonight. Have fun.

(And we seem to have summoned Dan Bron ))))

O.o

@RegDwigнt that's such a weird connection between Dan Brown and GoT (there's a character named Bron)

Okay, I had to come back for this.

no way.

please don't delete that.

pleeeaaaseee?

pretty please

it's literal genius Reg

can I write a non sequitur and post it as an answer

That's a literal trolling opportunity from the heavens

WHY IS SOMEONE DOWNVOTING

up up up up.

Here's some stuff for @Cerberus. He should also know what a "phelloplastician" is.

@GeorgePompidou Should I upvote it?

yes @phonics

@RegDwigнt Are we talking cork or cock?

Credit: Dieter Cöllen.

Your typing is a bit hard to make out.

@tchrist it depends. I can talk cock for 3000 roubles.

Sounds about fair for changing a letter. I'd totally do it.

@RegDwigнt Bit too cheap, don't you think?

Add a letter or something

But I'm not here! Early-morning shopping must be prepared.

@RegDwigнt First you claim you don’t know Latin nor Greek, but then you do this sort of cleverness. Methinks that Sir protesteth too much.

Phelloplasticity and phalloplasticity aren’t only a letter away in English alone.