English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2014-07-24 (page 5 of 7)

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5:00 PM

I was trying to figure it out. It's a noun phrase and not a verb, maybe? Which I think is what you are saying.

All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play make Jack a dull boy.

It's very hard to explain ain't it.

Yes.

7 mins ago, by skullpatrol

I don't like the sound of the second one

samples COCA collocations

5:01 PM

You'd say "I need to go work." but that is "I need to go and work."

It's not "I need to go and walking."

Haha, I need to go working.

Or "I need to go and running."

I need to go working sounds like you are looking for a job.

Oh my I have stars >

It does

treating working as an activity rather than an act

So the constructions must be different.

And yes I really regret buying a pack of purple yakults. Urgh.

5:02 PM

I don't know what those are.

Grape Yakults or the rival, Vitagen

To go walking everyday is apart of my exercise routine.

@skullpatrol I can parse that.

@Zoe I still don't know what those are.

@skullpatrol a part

@KitFox Oh man!

@KitFox Yes

5:04 PM

To go for a walk everyday is a part of my exercise routine.

A PART

I think

To go for a walk everyday is part of my exercise routine.

sounds nicer?

sure

Taking a walk every day is part of my exercise routine.

Okay I get it

we want "go walking"

5:06 PM

In English, it's best not to repeat words. So, if you have a infront, you don't need a at the back.

Yeah. "Walking" is quasi-equal to "a walk" there.

So, "To go for a walk" does not or should not have "a" at the back?

Top 100 collocations for go + VERB.ing in COCA, ranked:

#  1. 625 / 2697 23.2% of  23.2% shopping
#  2. 344 / 2697 12.8% of  35.9% looking
#  3. 124 / 2697  4.6% of  40.5% running
#  4. 109 / 2697  4.0% of  44.6% swimming
#  5.  85 / 2697  3.2% of  47.7% hiking
#  6.  69 / 2697  2.6% of  50.3% marching
#  7.  66 / 2697  2.4% of  52.7% walking
#  8.  62 / 2697  2.3% of  55.0% flying
#  9.  52 / 2697  1.9% of  57.0% dancing
# 10.  51 / 2697  1.9% of  58.8% getting
# 11.  47 / 2697  1.7% of  60.6% missing
# 12.  44 / 2697  1.6% of  62.2% exploring
# 13.  42 / 2697  1.6% of  63.8% riding

@KitFox quasi-equality is studied by graduate math students :)

It's like sentences with three "that"s are not grammatically wrong. It's just, who would parse that? Not any good teachers that I know of, that's for sure.

5:07 PM

What were we doing with misheard questions?

Closing as off-topic due to one-shots unlikely to help further visitors.

# 7. 66 / 2697 2.4% of 52.7% walking

For royal values of we.

I had something I liked, but I can't remember what question it was on.

lol VERB.ing

5:09 PM

What was the last didn't hear something right question? It was just a few days ago?

At most.

@Zoe Why funny?

"To go brrring"? That must be a telephone noise?

@tchrist you really don't like "lol" do you?

@skullpatrol You think its septimal placing significant, do you?

@skullpatrol I don’t understand the humor here.

It is not a matter of like or dislike. It is a matter of failing to understand.

oh, pardon me

5:11 PM

@tchrist It's like trying to find the correct word to describe an action but for lack of vocabulary knowledge or lack of brain cells, we reduce our intended descriptive word to end with -ing or -ish, even if it may or may not be found in the dictionary.

@Zoe I was actually using the technical term for these things.

Oh Frank Lee. That was it

user image

@tchrist That's why I thought it was funny. Because it was the technical lingo and the description of turning a noun into a verb.

ESLs ask some of the toughest questions

26 mins ago, by Ice Girl

@skullpatrol what is the difference between "walking" and "go walking"?

almost a half hour and NO conclusion!

5:16 PM

Chew on the corpse a while.

OKay let's try this one more time.

@skullpatrol I thought we figured it out 15 minutes ago.

@KitFox We figured out how to parse each word in a different sentence. Not the difference, per say.

@tchrist my teeth hurt :)

Then just masticate.

5:19 PM

@skullpatrol One obvious difference I guess - one is in present continuous tense while the other is in future continuous tense?

Only just noticed that the Inquisitve badge got implemented. So how the heck do I go about obtaining it?

@Zoe Let's not forget that "Go." is the shortest English sentence.

I do have 30+ questions... and they are all upvoted.

@RegDwigнt Can you get a Spanish Inquisitive badge? Because nobody expects that.

@skullpatrol Was the difference I stated correct or...?

5:21 PM

@Zoe I thought it was the difference between a verb and a noun phrase.

@Robusto Well I can't get any kind of Inquisitive badge, so.

@KitFox Well, the tenses are slightly different, too? Slight different still means different :P

@skullpatrol Oh. No. Um.

@Zoe sounds right, but I'm not an "expert."

@Zoe Nouns don't have tenses.

I [am walking]. I [am going] walking.

5:23 PM

If I was an "expert" I could do "anything."

Well, this is weird, I do not have "go verb-ing" in the book I am referring to. But in a sentence, "is walking" is present continuous tense and "to go walking" is future continuous tense.

I guess it really depends if the asker wants the noun or verb comparison.

So, now we wait. Case closed. :D

Hey, skully, ease up on the "expert" declaration.

You're the one who introduced it to me with the video clip, remember?

I do.

I do have "is going to write" VS "is going to be written by", who wants to know the answer?

5:27 PM

@KitFox Now, you tell me to "ease up on it"?

As in, the difference between the two. Just for fun.

Well, in one, you are writing, in the other you are the thing being written.

Oh crap, so late already?

Now is the time of luncheh!

I mean like "The famous author is going to write that book." VS "That book is going to be written by the famous author."

5:29 PM

@Zoe I don't see anything striking. So lay it on me.

@KitFox Well, to everyone, the meaning is the same. The difference though, is that the former is a form of active text type while the latter is a form of passive text type.

@RegDwigнt The SEDE query said you were supposed to have gotten it.

This book is teaching me a lot which I have disregarded in the past.

@Zoe Oh. Well, yes.

I distinctly merember this.

5:31 PM

Only got Curious.

Oh, right.

I have not read everything yet but in order for me to find "go verb-ing" in this book, I'll need to try very hard.

I can only guess the 34 questions are from less than 30 distinct days, but I can't be arsed to check every single question's timestamp, and I don't remember posting more than one question in a single day anyway.

@Robusto That’s because of its length: el Tribunal del Santo Oficio de la Inquisición is longer than you might imagine.

I dunno, doesn't that mean that by the time you're finished pronouncing it you absolutely should be expecting it? Law of large numbers and all.

5:34 PM

@Zoe what is the title of the book?

So too its article.

@skullpatrol "Everything you need to know about English, Upper Primary (Primary 4 to 6)" :D

Bought it to teach grammar to primary students.

@Zoe nice

sounds like a classic

@skullpatrol It has grammar, vocabulary, phrasal verbs, idioms and proverbs. Sample passages, explanations, rules, examples and practices.

Question: Without googling for answers, what does "go cap in hand to somebody" means?

Matt Эллен

it means to go to someone with you cap in your hand. figuratively that's usually in a contrite fashion

5:38 PM

go to somebody with your cap in your hand

Never heard that one.

Then again noöne at all wears caps.

@skullpatrol it means you're asking for a handout or charity

@Zoe Hi..means to go asking for money or help...(begging for it)

cap in hand means humbly.

I've seen sentences in caps, but never people.

5:39 PM

Also hat in hand...

Well almost there. It means to ask someone politely and sincerely for something.

Because you took your cap off to address the person.

like taking your hat off as a gesture of respect

Seriously?

Yes.

5:40 PM

Going cap in hand is not begging.

Okay, for example, those englishmen you see in movies. They bow and take off their hats at the same time as a sign of manners

"I don't understand why we let someone else rule our land, cap in hand."

It's like no one listens to the Proclaimers.

It's like saying, "No offence but..."

Acting submissively in general imo.

Well, beggars holding out their cap for some change...that's the image I get

1 min ago, by skullpatrol

like taking your hat off as a gesture of respect

5:42 PM

"James went cap in hand to his uncle to ask for a loan." or "She will probably forgive me if I go cap in hand to her."

It's a phrase I learnt from this primary school book!

Freedom goes cap in hand with mutual respect.

ask respectfully or politely

And still...I can see the humility first and foremost...but where are you teachnig actually?

@RegDwigнt Hand in handshoe.

Next one: Without searching the internet, what does "a feather in your cap" mean?

Side note, it'll be nice if my students can use theses phrases :/

5:43 PM

@Zoe macaroni

An accomplishment to be proud of.

Mmmmh... macaroni.

@tchrist Are you trolling? Wahaha

I am kind of hungry.

@Zoe I’m singing.

5:44 PM

It is the time of lunche.

@KitFox That's correct! At what age did you learn this phrase?

6.

4

@Zoe I don't know. Probably Yankee Doodle time.

@marantou In a group tuition centre for subsidised children in Singapore.

5:44 PM

OVER 9000

master^

25 or 6 to 4.

Seven-eleven.

Your choice.

:D

5:45 PM

Next: How about "With a fine-tooth comb"?

carefully

Ab ovo.

Matt Эллен

meticulously

Well. There's a question?

Is there?

Matt Эллен

5:45 PM

There is?

You have a question?

I think that meaning of phrases should be precise and not one worded

Where O where?

It explains itself in the most intrusive manner imaginable.

That's what I would tell my students, anyways.

@Zoe and now is one word not more precise than many words?

5:46 PM

@Zoe “Worded”? “Phrases”?

@Zoe one word is ok

If not, they would start answering comprehension with one word for meaning of phrases.

One word is precise but does not precisely explain the meaning of the phrase.

If a phrase can be explained with a single word, find a better phrase that can't. If your goal is to get them talkin.

@Zoe Are you saying phrases with the weight of opaque idiomatic expressions?

Meticulously is about as precise as you can get for that.

5:48 PM

@Zoe conciseness needs to be taught also

but leave it to math

imo

@skullpatrol And concision.

@KitFox I do think meticulously is more precise than careful.

Brevity = wit.

No, its soul.

That's wishy-washy weasel wording.

To fill gaping holes in your metrum.

A rookie poet's move.

5:49 PM

A stoat by any other name will still ravish the henhouse.

@Zoe I would ask them to use as few words as possible, but not less than some number you pick

Goodness. fans self

Everything should be made as simple as possible, just not simpler.

Are you in the US right now, @Reg?

@skullpatrol That could work. It would help in summary writing as well.

5:51 PM

Like these macaroni I've been dreaming about for the last couple minutes.

@Zoe Exactly

@KitFox I am not in the US right ever.

How about this proverb: "There is a trick in every trade."

@RegDwigнt Why is you eating schedule aligned with mine then?

Because I spent the night drinking and the forenoon sleeping.

5:52 PM

When I first saw it, I thought it meant that every business has it's own disadvantages or sleazy tricks. But it's actually not.

accept tricks

or short cuts

It means, "There is an established way of doing things."

@skullpatrol As a flourish of strumpets.

There is a one-trick pony in every trade.

Life is a one-trick pony farm.

Or ranch, even.

5:54 PM

BBL

@Zoe established "short-cuts" are important to accept

you don't wanna was your time on re-inventing the wheel

Next, which is better? "the devil makes work for idle hands" or "the devil makes work of idle hands"? I feel like I hear the second one more often but the book writes the firt.

@skullpatrol That works.

"the devil makes work for idle hands" sounds like the original version

switching "for" with "of" makes a difference in meaning imo

Idle hands are the Devil's playground.

Is the only one I've heard.

Or workshop

5:59 PM

I haven't heard 'workshop' in that phrase before.

@Zoe the devil is going to make work for you if you have idle hands

Makes sense though.

@skullpatrol that is how regions were added to C#

@KitFox: Neither have I....just found out ;)

I guess the first one denotes a choice/temptation while the second doesn't.

6:01 PM

"for" is a very important word for kids to be comfortable with

@Zoe start them with "For Sale"

@skullpatrol True that.

discuss what it really means

dig into the OED

it is an interesting search :-)

share your findings with them, and let them participate in the exploration

Yea

I gave her my ring for her hand. I gave her my ring for her necklace. For even though I gave her my ring, she did not accept my entreaty.

There are more completely different sense of for beyond those three.

This is not good.

@KitFox You were just flagged, in case you aren't aware.

6:16 PM

@GnomeSlice Thank you.

No, I'm sure it wasn't that. But thank you all the same.

@KitFox Hey you're not a fox any more.

Ouch.

Yes she is!

I mean a literal one. :P

Obviously still a fox

Man I suck at this chatroom

I have been away too long. I am out of practice.

etc.

Take care: it can be a firehose that you would suckle.

6:20 PM

lol

That took forever. I had to wait through a choppy commercial I couldn't skip.

Really? Mine was ad-free.

Weird.

At least my internet is great, now that I've moved out.

Nobody sucking up your bandwidth?

Well I have a roomate I'm renting from, but my home internet is very rural. Barely works any more.

6:30 PM

Oh. That sucks for gaming.

Heh.

I think I need more coffee. The days have been so grey lately.

Agreed.

@KitFox Metaphor?

Yes.

By the way, I noticed that you had edited some choice Meta posts recently. It cheered me.

6:38 PM

I had?

I can’t keep track, but didn’t remember doing so for meta. I don’t doubt it though. I edit so much.

There really is no need for “QUOTES” and “BOLD” and “ITALIC” when making the use–mention distinction. Italic alone suffices; the rest is mere distraction that messes up the page-look and comes across as yelling. Less is more. — tchrist 2 mins ago

6:56 PM

Finding a job is stupid

I don't even want to do any of this

Who wants to be a security guard? Nobody.

Gotta get that paper

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