English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

1:00 PM

Hahaha. The glottis is what makes it so easy to intubate.

RegDwight АΑA

Feb 7 '11 at 16:13, by Kosmonaut

ʕʔ

Mitch

@KitFox that's image makes me uncomfortable

KitFox

What? It's almost exactly like sex.

JSBձոգչ

i don't want to have sex with anyone's glottis

did you not read that it was the most disgusting thing ever?

KitFox

You must not like vulvas either, huh?

JSBձոգչ

1:04 PM

glottises are way worse than vulvas

Matt Эллен

I googl image searched for glottises. I was confused by what I found. mostly women and cats

JSBձոգչ

in the first place, vulvas don't move that way

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ The Romans have a word for that, big fellah.

Matt Эллен

but also Chinese characters and bags

@JSBձոգչ oh, uh, thanks

JSBձոգչ

sorry, that was too terrible

i couldn't leave it up

tchrist

1:06 PM

Couldn’t you have put stars in the middle?

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwight АΑA

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist i'd be pretty surprised if the romans ever got all the way to the glottis

WTH is that?

Matt Эллен

why is this in glotisses?

RegDwight АΑA

Starship Troopers (film)

Starship Troopers is a 1997 military science fiction thriller film written by Edward Neumeier, directed by Paul Verhoeven, loosely adapted from Starship Troopers, a science fiction novel by Robert A. Heinlein. It is the only theatrically released film in the Starship Troopers franchise. The film had an enormous budget estimated around $105 million and grossed over $121 million worldwide. The story follows a young soldier named Johnny Rico and his exploits in the Mobile Infantry, a futuristic military unit. Rico's military career progresses from recruit to non-commissioned officer and fin...

Oh COME ON!

JSBձոգչ

1:08 PM

never seen it

RegDwight АΑA

Well you should.

It's hilarious.

KitFox

Even I knew that, and I've only watched the movie about twenty times.

RegDwight АΑA

@KitFox exactly.

Mitch

@MattЭллен Hm..I think your google is broken then. Turn safe search off. YOu're only getting what the chinese want you to see.

tchrist

Now he’s non-answering his own lame questions:

0

A: Is it ok to use “within” with “upon”?

Thank you so much. I asked the question because one of my colleagues had different opinion that differed from mine. However, we both are not native English-speakers. Thank you again. Pujing

Why is that still open?

Mitch

1:11 PM

0

A: Is it ok to use “within” with “upon”?

Thank you so much. I asked the question because one of my colleagues had different opinion that differed from mine. However, we both are not native English-speakers. Thank you again. Pujing

why is this still an answer?

itsnot

just closed

’Tisn’t.

Why is everyone so bored and has nothing else to do?

KitFox

zap

I'm writing up meeting notes.

I don't remember most of the meeting, so I am making it up.

Matt Эллен

1:12 PM

@RegDwightАΑA just because I have something else to do, doesn't mean I want to do it :Þ

@KitFox good plan

KitFox

@MattЭллен Did you write your story?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox not really. I started it, but I've not got very far

KitFox

I wrote a draft, but I didn't have time to develop it much.

I'm also not sure what to do about the one user whose writing is really bad.

Matt Эллен

I think I'll have to combine this exercise and the next one. I'll have more time this week.

@KitFox It's OK. you can tell me!

KitFox

Yeah, this is just an initial foray anyhow.

@MattЭллен Haha, funny. You know I don't mean you.

Matt Эллен

1:17 PM

:D yeah. I just like compliments

KitFox

Well, I like your writing a lot.

Matt Эллен

thanks! I like yours too.

KitFox

Well, isn't this just a lovely egofest?

Matt Эллен

:)

tchrist

@RegDwightАΑA From the dearth of good questions.

KitFox

1:19 PM

@tchrist, do you write besides your technical stuff?

tchrist

@KitFox Doggèd doggerel.

KitFox

Are you interested in coming to Writers chat?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox they'll get better with practice. I guess we'll need to be as constructive as possible

tchrist

no time

Matt Эллен

yeah, you need as much time as possible to spend here

I know the feeling

KitFox

1:22 PM

@MattЭллен Problem is, it's poor English and poor writing.

Matt Эллен

oh

KitFox

So I don't know where to start.

Matt Эллен

no. I don't either.

KitFox

@tchrist It's OK to say you're not interested. (I just want to make sure you know that I am not crazy and my feelings would not be hurt by that.)

Ah! Justin Bieber falling on my head!

ducks

tchrist

FF has gotten on his damned ngrams high horse again, and is spouting unsupported nonsense as a result.

0

A: How can I use 'fete' as a verb in active voice?

My advice is to stick with the passive voice. As this NGram shows, that's what most people do... And here are just half-a-dozen instances of "I feted him" in the entire corpus of Google Books. You can get away with passive voice, or non-specific subject (they, the people, etc.), but in general...

Ngram abuse.

Santosh

1:26 PM

Should there be a on the place of an in this sentence?

This book assumes an basic level of skill with any of the commonly-available computer systems.

KitFox

@Santosh Yes.

"a basic level"

Santosh

@KitFox OK, thanks..

user19161

@Santosh For use of a or an, see waiwai's blog post.

Santosh

@JasperLoy link?

user19161

@Santosh english.blogoverflow.com

KitFox

1:29 PM

Stack Exchange English Language & Usage Blog: Articles: “A” vs. “An”

waiwai933 on November 04, 2011

One of the prevalent questions on the English Language and Usage – Stack Exchange is about whether a or an is the correct indefinite article to use. It’s a straightforward question, but like all questions, there are subtleties that raise further questions.

General Rule The question of “a” vs “an” is always decided by the pronunciation of the word that follows the article, without exception. Words that begin with a vowel sound, such as apple, egg, or owl, use the indefinite article an. …

user19161

The definitive guide on the internet. QED.

user19161

The first word and the last word.

user19161

The alpha and the omega.

ΜετάEd

No fêting in this chat.

Matt Эллен

a and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

@ΜετάEd only swooning

ΜετάEd

1:32 PM

swoons

Robusto

So I'm wondering ... I know what constitutes a dialect, but I wonder if countries that don't speak English as a primary language, but have a large segment of the population that is required to speak it for one reason or another — can it be said of such countries that they speak a dialect of English? Swiss English, for example?

ΜετάEd

So I am guessing Luke and EC downvoted

0

A: Why can't I flag a question as "offensive"?

To answer your specific question: you can flag a question as offensive: click flag check it is not welcome in our community click Flag Question You identified the last phrase in this sentence¹ as very offensive and struck it out²: It's not merely supernatural which has a connotation of be...

I love being an equal opportunity curmudgeon.

tchrist

@ΜετάEd rêves, perchance to sleep

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto i would normally only use "dialect" to refer to a native variety. i would call non-native varieties of English something else

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ But Indian English would be a dialect, or a series of dialects?

ΜετάEd

1:35 PM

Aye, there's the rub. rubs

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto i dunno

i also don't know if there's a strong consensus on this, so this might just be my personal usage

Robusto

Would this be a question for ELU or Linguistics.SE?

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ Some UK speakers sometimes take offence at being told theirs is a dialect, when it is standard English in their nettled little nook of the world.

Americans, likewise.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto it seems more appropriate to linguistics. it would apply to any language.

@tchrist but at least the British are right. ;)

Robusto

@MattЭллен Yet no other language has the (let's call it) penetration that English has, right?

tchrist

1:38 PM

@MattЭллен Only the Scottish ones.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Which British? North Country? Scots? Northern Ireland? Or only RP?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto true, not even Spanish.

@Robusto the one I speak, of course!

tchrist

West country.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Ah, of course.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist close, but I don't think I've a west country dialect. I'm a bit further north than that.

Robusto

1:40 PM

@MattЭллен Oxford is farther north than West Country?

tchrist

Hibernian, not to be confused with Hebridean.

KitFox

Hiberia?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto a little bit. also a little further East.

Robusto

@MattЭллен What are we calling West Country? Dorset?

Matt Эллен

although I'm note sure if all of Gloucestershire and Wiltshire really fall into it

Robusto

1:42 PM

@MattЭллен Ah, Ok. Then is Chester in the "North Country"? West Midlands?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto probably west midlands

tchrist

Manx

Robusto

And is Yorkshire in the North Country or north of it?

simchona

-1

Q: What is the plural form of 'gigolette'?

"A gigolette is mentioned here, but I cannot find the reference in English dictionaries", Shyam said. I wonder whether gigolettes is the plural form of gigolette or not.

grammatical-number

Matt Эллен

yeah, Yorkshire is generally considered North, although some people say Sheffield is in the midlands

Robusto

1:44 PM

@simchona "Giggles," obviously.

Matt Эллен

apparently Chester is in the North West

tchrist

@simchona GR. This user doesn’t ever post anything good, does he?

Robusto

@MattЭллен You Brits. You lay claim to the Prime Meridian, but you're all over the map when it comes to where you put your districts.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto well, I don't memorise these things. I leave that to cardiographers.

tchrist

Trying counting how many lakes you can find up in the Lake Country.

Robusto

1:46 PM

@tchrist I found Windermere and stopped counting.

KitFox

Goodness, @Mr.Shiny, it took you a long time to vote!

tchrist

Windermere is not a lake.

It is a mere.

Duh.

Count again.

Robusto

@tchrist It is merely a lake. Not an ocean.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I was away since Thursday evening.... 4 day weekend, remember?

Robusto

Windermere

Windermere is the largest natural lake in England. It is a ribbon lake formed in a glacial trough after the retreat of ice at the start of the current interglacial. It has been one of the country’s most popular places for holidays and summer homes since the arrival of the Kendal and Windermere Railway's branch line in 1847. It is in the county of Cumbria and entirely within the Lake District National Park. Windermere has also been the venue for the Great North Swim since 2008. Etymology The word "Windermere" is thought to translate as "Vinandr's lake", from the Old Norse name Vinand...

> Windermere is the largest natural lake in England.

tchrist

1:47 PM

But it does not have lake in its name.

Which is the point.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh right. shakes fist at Canadians

Robusto

@tchrist You are soooo picky.

KitFox

Did you have fun? Did you write something?

Matt Эллен

And New York doesn't have city in its name

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yes, and no.

Robusto

1:49 PM

It's funny, whenever you respond to tchrist it looks like you are giving an exasperated answer: "tchrist you are so picky!"

tchrist

The only lake that goes by the name lake in the Lake District is Bassenthwaite Lake. The rest are waters, meres, tarns, and the like.

KitFox

Wow, only 62 voters.

Matt Эллен

all of them are worthy of the name. You just need better perspective

RegDwight АΑA

Haha, gen-ref, seriously?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox where do you see that?

Robusto

1:50 PM

@tchrist Well, then why didn't they call it the "Water, Mere, Tarn, and, Oh, Yeah, Lake District"?

tchrist

s/and the like/and the lake/

RegDwight АΑA

NARQ. As the original quote was already a NARA.

tchrist

It is called the Lake District because it has a lake.

It is not the Lakes District, you will note.

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Constituent Badge. Although we seem to be missing quite a lot of the usual suspects.

RegDwight АΑA

@KitFox I counted 126 earlier this morning.

Robusto

1:51 PM

@tchrist I see. I cannot refute your logic on this. I will have to see if jQuery has solved this problem for me already.

RegDwight АΑA

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 here.

KitFox

@RegDwightАΑA Hmm. So I see. I skipped the peeps from Aug 3 and 4th.

RegDwight АΑA

Easy to miss a few.

Feb 16 at 2:45, by Robusto

126 isn't a high-res format.

KitFox

Well, it should be interesting. It won't be, but it should be.

Matt Эллен

129 now

RegDwight АΑA

1:53 PM

Good, good.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA You and your OVER 9000 tabs.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto I'm well past OVER 90000000 now.

Robusto

@RegDwightАΑA quakes in fear

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен and you know what you get if you search the transcript for 129?

gravatar.com/avatar/ea5fb0bda281e5ddab057950eb17882a?s=129

Coincidence? I think not!

Matt Эллен

lol

KitFox

1:56 PM

Yay Matt!

Matt Эллен

it's fêted!

RegDwight АΑA

Poor @Mitch is so agitated, he can't even spell "you're".

Matt Эллен

maybe he was requesting an expecting

Ah, but of course! He was asking about a French word. Silly us.

RegDwight АΑA

I thought that was obvious.

12 mins ago, by RegDwight АΑA

NARQ. As the original quote was already a NARA.

Matt Эллен

I see. I hadn't read the preceding answer

Frank Science

2:04 PM

Why isn't archeologist right?

Matt Эллен

archaeologist

there's an extra a

Frank Science

Yes

but archeology is ok.

ΜετάEd

But the extra a is archic.

Matt Эллен

@FrankScience in the US

archaeology

tchrist

Naw, the only spelling is archaeology. It is by definition archaic.

Frank Science

2:06 PM

@MattЭллен Yeah but -ist isn't right in US, too. I looked it up in Merriam-Webster and found no.

Matt Эллен

@FrankScience that's language for you!

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist the archaic spelling would be ἀρχαιολογία. Noob.

Frank Science

@MattЭллен What?

KitFox

@FrankScience What? Of course it is "archaeologist" in the US.

Frank Science

@KitFox Yes. archaeologist is the only valid one in US and UK, but archeology is valid in Merriam-Webster. It seems that AmE is inconsistant.

Matt Эллен

2:09 PM

@FrankScience it doesn't always make sense.

KitFox

I don't remember ever seeing "archeology" let alone "archeologist," but my spell checker seems to think both are fine.

shrugs

Frank Science

@KitFox archeologist is totally invalid in Merriam-Webster now.

Matt Эллен

@FrankScience There is a sort of reference to it here

ΜετάEd

Archaic is just the archic spelling of archic.

Matt Эллен

your cheek?

Frank Science

2:13 PM

inconsistent*

KitFox

@FrankScience Merriam-Webster just doesn't include it because it is a derivation of an alternate spelling. It doesn't mean the word doesn't exist.

Matt Эллен

nope. too late. I've deleted it from history. just this room to go.

Robusto

@FrankScience It may also be inconsistent. You never know.

Matt Эллен

and to be honest, practically noöne will notice if you miss out an a from archaeology

Rchaeology

Frank Science

@MattЭллен No one but vim noticed that.

Matt Эллен

2:17 PM

switch to emacs!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

The red line shows that archeologist is used as a word

Matt Эллен

but you had to dig to find it

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

because ngrams can solve any debate

Robusto

-1

A: How can I use “fête” as a verb in active voice?

My advice is to stick with the passive voice. As this NGram shows, that's what most people do... And here are just half-a-dozen instances of "I feted him" in the entire corpus of Google Books. You can get away with passive voice, or non-specific subject (they, the people, etc.), but in general...

Yay. Someone other than myself is calling out NGram BS.

That is a clear misuse of Ngrams: those are not comparable things. Who is to say that he was fêted by them? There may be others. And if you look for just fêted him, then you have problems in the other side. This makes no sense. It is misleading. — tchrist 53 mins ago

Frank Science

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Reference?

tchrist

2:19 PM

@Robusto I really hate ’em. It’s like somebody shows up with a bunch of statistics and says the discussion is ispo facto closed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@FrankScience example: encrypted.google.com/…

Matt Эллен

and that proves that more things get published as we go forward in time

Robusto

@tchrist Word.

Looks like we leave a lot of stuff open. Shame on us.

All sounds good to me. NGrams can be misleading, but they're not that complicated - if someone posts up a grossly misleading graph, someone else will probably be falling over themselves to point out the flaws (Robusto himself, for example! :) — FumbleFingers Feb 28 at 2:32

From our Dept. of Irony files.

Matt Эллен

Given @Kit's comment, is this NARQ?

1

Q: A word to describe setting-up (or preparing) the basic attributes of something

Let's say we are making something, say, a picture, and we want to set up (prepare) the basic things such as the size, the material, the shape and the color of the canvas. Or if we are making a wooden figurine, we want to prepare a piece of wood of an appropriate size and color. Is there a single...

single-word-requests

Robusto

2:35 PM

@MattЭллен I just don't understand what his problem is with "setting-up" or "preparing" ... It's not really NARQ, but it's almost like peeving that there isn't a "better" term for what he wants to say.

tchrist

I am rather soured on single-word-requests of late.

Matt Эллен

no wonder you and Cerberus get a long so well!

tchrist

That’s one theory.

Another is that I thought Cerberus was female and that I am a hound-dog.

KitFox

That's a bummer. I thought you were a good match.

Matt Эллен

maybe. Or it could be you both share an enjoyment in languages

tchrist

2:39 PM

Which if you actually knew me, would cause you to explode with paroxysms of untrollable [sic] laughter.

FF pretends ngrams can be uses appropriately, then fails to do so.

Matt Эллен

you make me [sic]

Robusto

@MattЭллен Careful, or I'll [sic] my doggy on you.

@tchrist Also, I object to his use of present tense: "My advice is to stick with the passive voice. As this NGram shows, that's what most people do." The problem is, the vast bulk of the NGram graph shows what people did, not what they do.

Also, as elsewhere noted, Google Books don't really tell us how people talk, only how they write.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto yes. People talk like shit while books are retarded.

OMFG Kosmo is on the site fixing two-year old answers of his.

@kosmonaut you could vote in the elections, now that you're here.

KitFox

OMG OMG OMG! @Kosmo, vote for me! faints from excitement

Robusto

@KitFox I read that first as faints from excrement. Sorry.

3

Evan Carroll

2:52 PM

@Noah That ugly beast is most certainly not me.

KitFox

Interesting, coprophiliac.

RegDwight АΑA

@Robusto I was mislead by your comment to read it likewise. As Russians say, I saw it with a corner of an eye.

KitFox

@EvanCarroll Obviously not. That's not the Evan Carroll.

That's some sort of indefinite Evan Carroll.

ΜετάEd

Howdy, Evan.

Evan Carroll

I just wanted to be clear. I'm The Evan Carroll. I have a beard that can enchant women who haven't even seen it yet.

RegDwight АΑA

2:55 PM

What about women who have?

Does it still enchant them?

Evan Carroll

That guy looks like an ugly/stupid hybrid.

ΜετάEd

I have a beer that can do that.

user19161

@EvanCarroll Let's not call him an ugly beast. It is not nice to say that. Also, I think he is really cute.

Evan Carroll

@RegDwightАΑA Once enchanted, unenchantedness is unachievable: it's a mere fact of life and they're left with nothing to do other than cope.

user19161

@EvanCarroll Let's not call him an ugly stupid hybrid either. I am quite disappointed in your choice of words.

RegDwight АΑA

2:57 PM

@EvanCarroll obviously, you haven't seen

Enchanted (film)

Enchanted is a 2007 American fantasy-musical film, produced and distributed by Walt Disney Pictures in association with Barry Sonnenfeld and Josephson Entertainment. Written by Bill Kelly and directed by Kevin Lima, the film stars Amy Adams, Patrick Dempsey, James Marsden, Timothy Spall, Idina Menzel, Rachel Covey, and Susan Sarandon. The plot focuses on Giselle, an archetypal Disney Princess, who is forced from her traditional animated world of Andalasia into the live-action world of New York City. The film is both an homage to, and a self-parody of, conventional Walt Disney Animated Cl...

Matt Эллен

@EvanCarroll there's a perfect oglaf comic for that, but it's NSFW, so I can't get it

RegDwight АΑA

All enchantedness will be lost instantaneously at the sight of a Godzilla.

user19161

@EvanCarroll I am not a woman, but if I were, I don't think beards will enchant me.

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен it's okay, I'm letting Disney handle it.

Evan Carroll