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12:00 AM
Guess what they were scared of?
Troubling.
 
Aww.
Is that a volcano?
 
No.
Wildfire.
 
@tchrist Colorado?
 
Quite.
I drove through the really thick stuff coming home from $job.
 
My friend who lives in the Denver area said most of the homes that were destroyed belonged to people who knew the risk and yet didn't clear their homes of the brush and trees around them. Those who had done so weren't harmed.
 
12:06 AM
That isn't really true.
Nothing can stop a firestorm.
Here’s a movie from my backporch a couple years ago.
I’ve been through so many fires lately it isn’t funny.
And this one was the most destructive in Colorado history, up until a few weeks ago.
 
@Robusto Yeah, I actually think Chinese is similar to us?
Aren't many Chinese girl names like "rose" and "violet"?
 
@Cerberus I dunno anything about Chinese. I thought the names were taken from a family poem or something.
 
The 6-Sept shots were from my backyard. I was under 1/4 mile from the mandatory evac zone.
 
A family poem?
 
There were people who cleared and were burned.
There people who didn’t clear and were spared.
 
12:11 AM
@tchrist I was at Yellowstone in '87 when it burned down. They told us everything was OK, everything was OK, the eastern part wasn't in trouble — until they woke us up at 3:00 a.m. banging on the door and yelling "Get up! Get up! You have to get out now!"
 
Fun.
 
A friend of mine was at sea when the fire swept through, burning up everything she had, but herself.
 
How come they can't monitor these fires and extinguish them as soon as they begin?
 
They do.
Again and again and again.
They’ll easily put down a dozen fires in an afternoon.
 
Hmm.
 
12:13 AM
Because the lightning struck at places they can reach by truck.
But sometimes, often even, it does not.
 
How can such large ones develop?
 
You just cannot get here from there.
 
Aeroplanes?
 
Red-flag days, usually.
The scale is too great.
Yes, there is air support.
 
But if you discover them immediately?
 
12:14 AM
Even the US Air Force scrambled its eight tankers this summer.
 
@Cerberus The philosophy was that forest fires are natural and forests should be allowed to burn down. Seriously.
 
Oh...
 
The one that you asked whether was a volcano was my latest one, and it was only put down because there were killer ones going both right to our north and right to our south.
And there was Type-1 federal emergency response team 15 minutes south of us in reserve.
So we got the USAF tankers immediately.
 
I suppose you might want to let that happens in certain wild regions—but not when houses could be reached by the fire?
 
But it took a long time to burn out.
Because the terrain is just not getatable.
 
12:16 AM
Hmm.
And how about if you create treeless zones between large forests and villages?
 
@Cerberus Lotus for sure.
 
@cornbreadninja Yeah, like that.
 
It’s not villages and hamlets, little mountain towns, that are the problem.
It is the urban-wildland interface.
Where people live on 40 acres per property.
Per house.
And it is all forest.
I shouldn't say that.
Our mountain sounds have been severely threatened.
 
You know what to do.
 
None have lost their downtowns yet.
Such as they are.
But it has been very very close, and the outskirts have burned.
 
12:20 AM
Mountain sounds?
As in water?
So why can't those mountain towns have some treeless zone around them?
 
Here, look at this:
Load it up with Google Earth.
 
@Cerberus What are you, some kind of commie?
 
Zoom in so that you can see the towns.
The ones in the mountains.
Then notice how many people do not live in those towns, with little properties all over.
But even the mountain towns in the forest ARE PART OF THAT FOREST.
One does not create a soccer field to build a town in.
It would be depressing.
But yes, Boulder proper has a big field of open space guarding it from the forest, almost everywhere.
So that does work, and did much to help us this last one.
Colorado Springs was not so lucky, because they did not have that buffer that you mention, and which we had.
But there were still people up in the mountains whose homes had to be evac'd.
 
OK.
 
Notice how my back yard pictures are of a field.
 
12:25 AM
So then perhaps those mountain people are like the people who build houses between the river and the dikes here.
 
But that very field can burn.
Dikes like in levees protecting them from the river?
 
What happens when a field burns?
@tchrist Yes.
 
@Cerberus Ask the U.S. Forest Service. They took a lot of heat for the Yellowstone fire (no pun intended). Scared the shit out of me, though. My wife was pregnant and my older son was 3, so driving through choking smoke in the middle of the night in a traffic jam was not a lot of fun for us.
 
@KitFox More so than you are, probably!
 
When a field burns, it is usually no big deal. Until the embers blow onto your roof, into your trees.
@Robusto I think it would have been terrifying for anyone, any age, any circumstance.
 
12:28 AM
@Robusto Yikes. Did you know at the time whether there was a serious risk that the fire might reach your car?
 
We had to go through the east exit, which meant we had to drive to the middle of Wyoming, then south, then back west to get back to Salt Lake City where the airport is. Imagine driving from Amsterdam to Berlin, then down to Frankfurt and across to Toulouse. Roughly the amount of driving, though the scenery is better in Wyoming, I think.
 
Is it?
 
Once the field behind my house did burn. Not immediately behind, but maybe a quarter mile away. I was 12 hours away at the bottom of canyon, and never knew about the reverse-911 calls until I came back up where there was reception again.
So all I had was recorded evacuation noticed on my phone, and no one could tell me whether my neighborhood was gone.
So I made it back in about 9 hours.
And learned my car really can do cruise-control at 120.
 
@Cerberus We knew nothing. We had been hearing about the fires for weeks before we went, and I kept calling and saying maybe we should cancel, but they said, "No, no, come on down, the fire is contained in the southern part." The day we got there through the west gate, they closed it. We drove through smoke to get to our cabin and stayed for three days. Each day they told us not to worry. Until the point where it became an emergency.
 
120 mph.
 
12:30 AM
@Cerberus Wyoming has some of the best scenery on earth. I kid you not.
 
@Robusto And some of the most boring, too.
I have to run and go do something.
 
The sprinkler again, huh.
Bye!
 
@tchrist It's pretty much all beautiful. I love the grasslands, the Bighorn Mountains, the Grand Tetons, Devil's Tower — everything.
 
@Robusto Strange.
Is it that hard to predict the progress of the fire?
 
@Cerberus The fire's direction depends on the wind. Whichever way the wind blows, that's the way the fire goes.
So ... try and predict the wind.
 
12:35 AM
All right, but you can assume a worst-case direction and a time margin.
Like 4 hours.
 
@Cerberus We went to the visitor center that night for our daily briefing and they said the fire was not a problem. Seven hours later they were banging on our door. A fire can move very fast.
I'm sorry, I said 1987, but it was actually 1988.
The Yellowstone fires of 1988 together formed the largest wildfire in the recorded history of the U.S.'s Yellowstone National Park. Starting as many smaller individual fires, the flames spread quickly out of control with increasing winds and drought and combined into one large conflagration, which burned for several months. The fires almost destroyed two major visitor destinations and, on September 8, 1988, the entire park was closed to all non-emergency personnel for the first time in its history. Only the arrival of cool and moist weather in the late autumn brought the fires to an end. A...
 
Still sounds like their safety margins were far too narrow if there was a real emergency.
If there was any risk even if you left at 3 am as you did.
Perhaps there was no risk, as long as you left at 3 am as instructed?
I do feel the visitor centre should have been more honest (or more knowledgeable) about your prospects.
If there was a risk that they might have to evacuate you in the dark of night, you should have been told.
 
@Cerberus Well, it was supposed to be our last night there. We were going to leave the next day to catch our fight. As a result of having to leave through the east gate, we had an extra long day of driving in order to reach the airport.
 
Well, okay, but a delay is not so bad, compared to bodily harm.
3,213 km2, that is a lot.
 
12:42 AM
56 by 56 km.
Why haven't trees evolved some kind of sprinklers anyway?
It sucks if you took a hundred years to grow large, then burn down in a day.
 
They burn down and then a new forest grows. Old-growth forests choke out all other vegetation, believe it or not. At least, that's what the forest service says.
 
But the trees themselves would have an "interest" in keeping it that way.
 
There aren't many stable forest configurations.
There are plenty of species that have an interest in watching a forest burn up.
 
Yeah, probably anything that isn't tall.
I think any kind of successful fire prevention would just bee too costly for trees, so they don't even try.
Because a fire is usually all or nothing.
 
Maybe they are just happy with the natural order of things.
 
12:47 AM
@Cerberus Why wouldn't they? Young trees can't grow if the adults choke out all the light.
 
@Robusto If that concerned them, they would die off of their own accord...
 
@Cerberus Now you're talking like trees can reason.
 
giggles
 
The common metaphor of natural selection. You know how it works.
 
Fire is natural.
 
1:02 AM
@Cerberus They have developed a reproduction system reliant upon wildfire. You need fire to liberate the lodgepoll pine’s seeds from its cone.
Lodgepole Pine, Pinus contorta, also known as Shore Pine, is a common tree in western North America. Like all pines, it is evergreen. Subspecies There are three subspecies of Pinus contorta, one of them with two varieties. All the four taxa are sometimes treated at the rank of variety. *Pinus contorta subsp. contorta (Shore Pine) – Pacific Coast, southern Alaska to California **Pinus contorta subsp. contorta var. contorta (Shore Pine; syn. P. contorta var. contorta) – Pacific Coast, Alaska to northwest California **Pinus contorta subsp. contorta var. bolanderi ( Mendocino Shore Pine;...
Fire ecology is concerned with the processes linking the natural incidence of fire in an ecosystem and the ecological effects of this fire. Many ecosystems, particulalarly prairie, savanna, chaparral and conifer forests have evolved with fire as a natural and necessary contributor to habitat vitality and renewal. Many plant species in naturally fire-affected environments require fire to germinate, to establish, or to reproduce, or all three. Fire suppression not only eliminates these species, but also the animals that depend upon them. Finally, fire suppression can lead to the build-up o...
 
Wow, that is weird.
I wonder why?
 
That they might live.
 
And surely most trees do not have this?
But why depend on fire?
 
Those that live in wildfire country must have some way of survival.
 
But I have no time, I am reading Kit's story!
 
1:03 AM
Go. Read.
 
@tchrist Doesn't mean you need to actually depend on it.
 
Good lord, man. It has taken you eight hours to read 2500 words?
 
If you knew that the winter would bring 40 below zero every year, you would find a way to make that work, too.
Here, they just know that fire shall come.
Only its exact period is unknown.
But it always comes.
Plants have evolved many adaptations to cope with fire. Of these adaptations, one of the best-known is likely pyriscence, whereby maturation and release of seeds is triggered, in whole or in part, by fire or smoke; this behaviour is often erroneously called serotiny, although this term truly denotes the much broader category of seed release activated by any stimulus.
All pyriscent plants are serotinous, but not all serotinous plants are pyriscent (some are necriscent, hygriscent, xeriscent, soliscent, or some combination thereof).
> Different species of plants, animals, and microbes specialize in exploiting different stages in this process of succession, and by creating these different types of patches, fire allows a greater number of species to exist within a landscape.
> Following the fire, the redwood community exhibited the highest canopy retention of all species as well as the least tree mortality. Percent mortality was greatest for knobcone pine at more than 90%, closely followed by Douglas-fir, while redwoods showed the lowest degree of mortality with around 5%.
That’s because redwoods are almost fireproof.
Which is a different method of survival.
> Overall, the greatest ecosystem services were found to come from the redwoods. They retained the most canopy, thereby providing more shade post-fire; sprouted more vigorously than the other species, indicating more robust root structure leading to greater bank stability; and excelled in water-holding capacity by creating a deeper organic soil layer post-fire than the other vegetation types.
But you really should read the Fire Ecology page.
 
One of my favorite songs.
 
Why was Vitaly deleted?
 
1:19 AM
Why do you ask?
I mean, right now?
 
Because I liked his contributions.
 
Me too.
 
2
A: What is the antonym of "abjure"?

tchristThe opposite of abjure is objure. Per the OED: Etymology: classical Latin obiūrāre to bind by an oath < ob- prefix + iūrāre to swear (see jurant adj. and n.). Compare Middle French objurer (1460 as oubjurer). trans. To bind by or charge under oath; to urge. 1609 R. Cawdre...

He made that answer of mine better.
 
sulks He made everything better.
I still talk to him a little.
 
Oh.
It’s just too bad, is all.
 
1:22 AM
Agreed.
 
Why are you bi-iconic?
 
You haven't refreshed recently.
 
I am pondering your story.
 
You have a bazooka to my west and a cute fox to the northeast.
 
I like the atmosphere.
 
1:24 AM
@Cerberus Are you really?
 
But I don't understand it fully.
 
It needs editing, but what do you need explained?
That will be helpful for the editing process.
 
I'm probably stupid, but there are many things I don't understand completely.
 
Well, it is supposed to make you think for a while.
 
In the end, the darkness is death, correct?
 
1:26 AM
But more in a "hmm" sort of way and not in a "wtf?" sort of way.
 
I feel more like I'm floating.
 
@Cerberus Well, not the darkness exactly, but yeah.
 
I mean when the darkness embraces him.
 
I'm not sure if floating is good or bad.
 
I'm not sure either.
 
1:28 AM
@Cerberus ...uh, yeah. I'm going with a yes there.
 
But not exactly?
 
I'll have to think about it.
I think you aren't really supposed to know.
 
Ah, I see.
 
Not for certain.
 
Then some or much of the floating is probably intentional.
 
1:29 AM
But it is rather the natural conclusion.
 
I was trying to determine the intended genre.
Without words, because I don't have them.
 
I was just trying to figure out the genre myself!
 
Heh.
 
Ah, you are back to the more comforting fox, @KitFox ♦.
Hello all, by the way.
 
Hi Mahn!
in The Overlook Hotel, 6 hours ago, by KitFox
I guess that fate is inescapable, the universe doesn't give a crap about people, and frail, fleeting human relationships are the only thing that can give us meaning.
Except I'm not really sure that's what I did there.
 
1:31 AM
I mean, there are stories where all impressions imbibed during the story come together in the end to form a clear picture, and there are those that are more about sketching a general impression, an atmosphere, and touch upon certain themes in a poetic way.
 
My hand is all red and is sort of bleeding.
 
@KitFox Oh, let me read that.
@Mahnax What have you done?
 
in The Overlook Hotel, 6 hours ago, by KitFox
So I guess that it what I want to convey, which is pretty bold compared to what I usually write.
 
@Cerberus I played a card game with two rather vicious female cousins.
 
@Cerberus OMG, I don't think we want to know!
 
1:32 AM
It's called "torture".
 
Oh. Never mind.
 
Oh, dear. They tore the aces from your hand?
@Mahnax Oh, is it your knuckles?
Kids play this game with coins here that makes their knuckles bleed.
It was all the rage a few years ago.
 
@Cerberus Sorta. The loser's hand gets slapped, knuckled, pinched, or rubbed hard depending on the card suit that is drawn.
@Cerberus I've played that a few times.
Painful.
 
@Mahnax Hmm that doesn't sound like fun.
@Mahnax I didn't know you were like that!
 
@Cerberus I managed to lose two rounds in a row.
@Cerberus Not anymore, haha.
It was just one of the follies of middle school.
 
1:34 AM
Good, good.
 
The teachers weren't too fond of bleeding students, that is, students willingly bleeding and making each other bleed for "fun".
 
Understandable.
 
Oh, we had a teacher who launched into prayer in the middle of class once.
 
@KitFox I must say I completely missed the reference to the fates. I wasn't sure what the woman/women stood for.
 
One of our students was absent and somebody jokingly said that he was out trying drugs.
 
1:37 AM
I took them as three incarnations of one entity.
 
@Mahnax I've done that and I'm an atheist.
@Cerberus Which they are, so you got that. Well, four.
 
@KitFox Out loud, with tears running down your face? Hand in the air?
In front of an entire class? She was really getting into it.
Everyone was trying not to laugh.
 
@KitFox His mother seemed to be a different woman altogether.
 
@Mahnax Yes. Middle school kids are...well.
 
@KitFox Interesting.
 
1:39 AM
OK. Maybe I was lying just then.
 
@Mahnax Huh? Why on earth?
 
At any rate, when she found out that he was simply sick and had gone home at lunch, she called the kid who said something about drugs a bitch.
@Cerberus She was very concerned.
 
Hilarious.
 
Oh, she was praying because they had said he was doing drugs?
Crazy.
 
Yes.
 
1:40 AM
"That bitch made me pray to Jesus for nothing!"
 
"I've wasted some of my daily prayer minutes!"
 
Doesn't she know that every class has kids that try drugs, often many?
 
This was a Christian class.
 
"Now Jesus will stop taking my calls!"
 
He won't take the wheel, either!
 
1:41 AM
Oh dear, oh dear. Fret fret fret.
 
Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.
 
No.
Stop.
Damn it.
Too late.
 
A night on the town, then?
 
So Cerb, about the story?
 
Yes.
 
1:42 AM
coughs politely
 
Sorry for interrupting.
 
What else were you confused about?
 
I got the impression that perhaps the allegorical woman and his mother were somehow guiding him as he was approaching death or oblivion.
 
@Mahnax Oh pish posh and nonsense. I have been waylaying strangers, trying to get input on my most recent short story.
 
@KitFox Oh, I see. Any more plans for Macy/Ada?
 
1:43 AM
But I wasn't sure.
 
@Mahnax I have two more parts sketched out, but nothing really written yet.
 
@KitFox Cool.
 
@Cerberus Yeah, you could read it that way. I was thinking "drawing in" more than guiding. You know. Like a spider.
 
Hmm.
But then why?
 
@Mahnax But you shouldn't be reading that filthy garbage.
@Cerberus Why what? Spider's gotta eat.
 
1:45 AM
@KitFox Oh, come now.
 
If this wasn't about a more or less natural process of forgetfulness and oblivion, then who or what is the spider woman?
 
Fate.
Fate is inescapable and inevitable.
 
Hmm.
But Fate doesn't need to do work.
 
> Darkness had no need / Of aid from them--She was the Universe.
 
Who are "them"?
People in general?
 
1:47 AM
Uh, peoples.
Yeah.
 
OK.
 
Fate isn't doing any work, anyway. It's an allegory.
 
Perhaps I am not used to seeing Fate allegorised as an active agent.
 
He is in the spider's web, and there is no escaping it.
 
Normally, Fate only acts if one tries to escape it.
 
1:49 AM
Hmm.
 
If V. has fled from Fate somehow and is trying to hide from her, then it would make more sense to me.
No, I don't know.
So is the whole story an abstract allegory of the forgetfulness of old age and death?
 
forgetfulness of old age and death?
Huh. I hadn't considered that.
 
I didn't know.
So no?
 
No.
Well, maybe, if you find it there, but that's not my intent.
 
Then what is the whole memory-forgetting theme about?
 
1:53 AM
It's in reverse. He remembers more as he goes along.
 
Hmm.
 
The forgetting is a denial.
 
A denial?
 
Yeah. A denial of the need for connection and by extension a denial of his own mortality.
 
I did notice that he seemed to know stuff at the end, or at least whatever he needed to know; but was there also a gradual increase in memory during the story?
 
1:56 AM
He doesn't remember much about his sister (if it was his sister), he remembers Anastasia while he is with her, he immediately knows his mother and remembers that she was there the next day.
 
Hmm yes.
 
And he anticipates his gran, if we can say that of the crone.
 
But he forgets what his notes were about every time.
Is that his gran? I see.
 
Maybe, maybe not.
 
Okay, so I get the impression that there isn't supposed to be a clear answer to some of the questions that the reader will have.
Including what's real and what's not, and whether this is about some real-time sequence of events at all.
 
2:00 AM
Well, she's Atropos. She looks like his gran because that is what he knows.
34 mins ago, by KitFox
But more in a "hmm" sort of way and not in a "wtf?" sort of way.
 
@KitFox Okay, the veil was about death. I got that she was related to his death.
@KitFox I don't know.
As in, I don't know what I'm supposed to know.
 
OK, well, I will think on it when I go to edit.
 
Heh.
 
Right now I am almost out of battery.
 
Ah OK.
I liked the atmosphere, did I say that?
 
2:03 AM
You are funny.
My feelings are not hurt.
 
Am I?
I didn't think I was hurting your feelings, so I can't say I am relieved, hehe.
 
Oh, I thought you were being consoling.
 
Hmm I didn't feel that I needed to.
 
OK then.
Good night!
 
I didn't think I was critical? My only point is probably that you could perhaps give the reader a bit more information about what the genre is, for example at the end.
@KitFox Night!
 
2:42 AM
0
A: What does "emdash" mean in this case?

tchristIt means they didn’t do they HTML right. They mean to have &emdash; but fumblefingered the ampersand.

There’s no Close -> Offtopic -> Belongs on StackOverflow option. :)
 
*their HTML
And is your "fumblefingered" a reference to Fumble Fingers, our esteemed colleague?
 
Who?
Fix by reload.
 
Ah.
 

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