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3:00 AM
Yes, of course they should. The fear is that this would send the message that bullying is normal, and somehow to be expected.
 
Whose fear? That doesn't make sense.
 
Hmm, maybe I just should have been born 15-20 years later.
The things you are talking about happen nowadays (at least in New Zealand), but didn't happen when I was young.
 
I would also have conversations with each child individually, to ask him how things are going, and ask him whether sometimes kids were mean, and whether he had seen other kids being bullied. Make sure they were comfortable, and promising absolute secrecy.
@DavidWallace Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And that it should happen even more.
 
The school mentioned in this article is the one that my son is probably going to end up going to. I don't believe they have such a problem any more. But this is so recent.
@Cerberus I'm not sure whether that would work.
 
@DavidWallace Terrible.
@DavidWallace It could certainly help. Kids see more than teachers.
I would try to build up some rapport with the more mature children.
And I would talk about it with other teachers regularly.
Come up with a strategy together.
 
3:06 AM
But even when the school identifies the perpetrators and victims of such bullying, it's difficult to know what to do.
 
And kick the bully/bullies from our school all together as a last resort.
I would expect coöperation from other teachers and the principal.
 
@Cerberus Thus moving the problem to some other school?
 
Yes.
And warn the other schools.
 
I think here, public schools are legally required to accept any child in their zone. Otherwise, you get kids with no access to education at all.
 
An inveterate tangle of a problem is much harder to untangle than a fresh, clean cohort of bullies who don't know their new environment and against whom the new school is watchful.
@DavidWallace You can suspend them indefinitely, or repeatedly, if there is no other option.
Call the police.
There are so many things you can try.
 
3:10 AM
I guess.
 
No single approach is fool proof.
But improvement is possible.
 
Oh, and I had completely forgotten until I re-read that article. The same boy once set fire to my hair with a cigarette lighter. That probably comes in at number 3, moving the hockey-stick incident to 4.
 
Wow.
Fire is actually somewhat dangerous.
The hockey stick too, I guess.
At some point, calling the police can be an interesting option.
 
Wow, I'm suddenly remembering all this other stuff too. Stuff that I had forgotten.
 
Having the police show up at your door can make parents care.
Do you talk with your sun about bullying?
Like every six months?
 
3:13 AM
Yes, quite often.
 
Very good.
Do you also ask him about whether he sees other kids being bullied?
 
When he was 6, there was a 7yo in his class that bullied him. Eventually we got the bully moved into a different class with older kids.
 
Very good.
See, that is an excellent approach.
 
@Cerberus No, we don't usually discuss that.
 
It could be interesting.
You could use your son as an agent.
 
3:14 AM
This particular 7yo bullied everyone. He once attacked a kid with a sharpened pencil to the face.
 
Wow.
Any idea whether he behaved better in the new class?
 
@Cerberus I don't really know. Eventually he ended up in a different school.
 
OK.
 
So he can't have behaved TOO much better.
 
Heh.
At least the bully is moved and dealt with in some manner.
 
3:16 AM
But is he really dealt with? 6 years from now, he will certainly be in prison. But until then, how many more victims will he have, in whatever school he ends up in?
 
If the new school was warned, and the teachers + principal is watchful, much of the damage can be prevented.
It can't be perfect.
There will always be some bullying.
But it should not go on for too long.
A month or two of bullying is probably bearable for most kids—but much longer?
My heart breaks when I hear of kids who are bullied for years and years.
I'm trying to make two points: 1. there are many things you can try that may reduce the damage; and 2. more attention and effort should be directed towards the problem.
Although there has probably been lots of progress over the past decades.
 
Yes. Without a doubt.
Sep 5 at 21:33, by David Wallace
In my first year of high school, some bullies took my schoolbag, filled it with dirt, and threw it around the place, jumped on it, and so on. All the textbooks in it were quite ruined. I was in huge trouble with the teachers when I returned the textbooks at the end of the year.
That was the same kid.
 
I remember once in primary school there was this kid who was bullying me, and an older class mate stepped up and hit the bully. That was great. This bully wasn't even too bad, I was not really afraid of him, but still.
@DavidWallace Oh, yes, that. So did you tell the teachers that this bully had soiled them?
 
Right. That kind of thing never happened in my school. Or maybe I just had the wrong kind of friends.
 
Well, soiled—made them dirty.
 
3:22 AM
@Cerberus Hell no.
I was far more scared of the bullies than of the teachers.
To be honest "huge trouble" was an exaggeration. But one teacher did chew me up over it quite badly.
 
Right.
@DavidWallace It was probably rare. I remember one time, in high school, there was this very fat girl. She was obviously insecure. She wasn't in my class, but we has class together occasionally. I barely knew her. One day I saw this other girl go to her table, insult her, and throw her pens on the ground, which fat girl quietly picked up. She could have been shaking or crying, I don't remember.
I did nothing.
 
But realistically, what could you have done?
Console the victim, maybe.
 
I was probably scared of what would happen, and not sure what to do.
 
But I don't think there's much you could have done that would have affected the bully.
 
@DavidWallace That, absolutely; but I could also have simply stood up, and called the mean girl out.
 
3:26 AM
And what would that have achieved, exactly?
 
"What are you doing? Are you proud of yourself? Do you have any idea what a mean bitch you are?"
 
Mean girl shrugs shoulders and walks away?
 
"Hey, people, did you see what this girl did? Look what a mean bully she is. [describe action]"
 
Or throws your books and pens on the ground next time.
 
Mean girl shrugs and pretends to be unaffected, but is in fact shaken, humiliated, and terrified.
A random boy attacking her over her bullying, that is not something to be taken lightly.
@DavidWallace She would not have dared. She preyed only on weak victims.
I was stronger than she anyway. She's a girl. Girls never bully boys.
 
3:28 AM
@Cerberus What would you have done if she had made you her next victim?
 
I don't know, yell at her? But that was impossible.
 
@Cerberus Not true at all.
 
She would not have dared.
@DavidWallace Not when they're 16.
Or 15.
It was around that age.
 
I'm sure you could google and find reports of 15/16 year old girls bullying boys.
 
I still feel very much shamed of myself for not doing anything. I could have done something and I didn't.
@DavidWallace Well, anyway, in that situation, I judged the risk as zero.
 
3:30 AM
I don't think you should feel shame. You are not the person who did wrong.
 
I was weak.
I think it would be good for schools to educate kids about how to act when they see others being bullied.
I have heard some good stories about that approach.
 
Yes, but I think lots of people have experiences like that. Then they think about them, and decide what they will do next time they're in that kind of situation. What sort of person you are is reflected in your behaviour the second time you encounter any such situation, not the first.
 
I suppose.
Everything is so much easier as an adult.
If we had been educated as to what to do, I'm sure we would have done something, if only console fat girl and tell the school counsellor.
 
Life is about learning from one's inadequacies, right?
See how ashamed of it I am?
 
:6457950 Yeah, I have probably been in a similar situation.
I can't think of one now, but I'm sure.
@DavidWallace Yeah...
The kids we teach at this after-school institute never visibly bully each other.
 
3:37 AM
Umm, I feel a "but" coming on.
 
We would certainly notice if they did it there.
No but, except that I don't know what happens elsewhere.
Of course I only ever attended the ehm safest schools, and taught kids from such schools, so I have never had the opportunity to be around the worst kind of bullying that one sometimes hears of.
Like your stories.
 
Yeah. To be honest, throwing the fat girl's pens on the floor seems pretty mild to me.
 
Yeah. But she was very vulnerable, and she took it very badly. For some reason that was very clear.
God, I'm never sending my kids to a bad school.
It can be so horrible.
 
How will you know?
My parents believed that the school where I underwent the worst bullying was a good school.
It was an expensive church-run primary school. So it had to be good, right?
 
@DavidWallace It's not always easy to know, but I would talk to other parents.
Church run = good?
 
3:43 AM
Would they know?
 
eyes bulging.
 
My parents still think they did the right thing sending me there.
 
I feel that I would know.
If you even mention "church-run", I immediately think of the worst bullying.
 
@Cerberus Well, you can have a free education at a government-run school, or a very expensive education at a church-run school. Common sense dictates which one is the better choice (assuming you can afford the latter).
 
Heh.
I guess your system is completely different.
All schools cost the same here, which is very little.
 
3:45 AM
No, my parents just had no clue at all.
 
Did your parents not know the area very well?
 
@Cerberus I'm not sure what you mean.
 
If you know the area/city, you will know about the reputation of the schools.
Perhaps it is more complex in NZ.
 
This church-run school was close to the centre of the city. But there is a government-run school in every suburb. We were in one of the outermost suburbs of Wellington. So they knew what the local school was like, I think. They had no idea about the church-run school. But they did send my sister there one year before me, so I guess they thought it helped her.
 
How do you feel about the premise that children from parents with a higher education are usually more mellow with respect to bullying?
 
3:49 AM
mellow how?
 
Less harsh?
Less violent, less street culture.
 
Umm, I'm not sure that I understand your premise.
Get an expensive school and it's full of rich kids. Who are more likely to be kids with well-educated parents. And you get more bullying than in a free school. I don't know why.
 
It works very differently from here, then.
 
So do you have church-run schools or not?
 
Perhaps catholic schools in the south, but not anywhere where you would want to live anyway.
We do have catholic and protestant schools, but they are not run by churches.
 
3:54 AM
I don't understand that.
How can you have a catholic school without a church being there? Or a protestant school, for that matter?
 
They have a catholic or protestant tradition.
 
But they are government-run?
 
Perhaps we should establish what you mean by "run"?
Schools have boards, but they get nearly all their money from the state.
 
OK. That sounds the same as the public ones here.
 
A catholic is a school that may or may not have some catholic traditions.
 
3:56 AM
So do I have the choice then, of a catholic public school, a protestant public school or a secular public school for my child?
 
Yes.
We also have some Muslim schools.
 
In every area?
 
And various other kinds, like Montessori.
 
But they're all equally cheap?
 
I don't know how many Muslim schools we have; the large majority of Muslims live in the larger cities, so I would expect only a few big cities to have Muslim schools.
Yes.
And if you can't pay, there is a fund.
 
3:59 AM
Our government provides complete funding for one school at each level in each area. So there's always a public school you can go to. Other schools are entirely run by private organisations, which includes churches, and also things like organisations offering Montessori education.
 
Ah, OK.
And how much oversight is there in such schools?
 
The government provides limited funding to the non-public schooling, so they have to raise a large portion of their costs in fees.
 
Inspections?
 
I really don't know.
I mean, they have to meet certain standards to be allowed to offer education to kids. But I don't know how that is inspected or enforced.
 
Frankly, school boards usually handle their own business, so we have little oversight from the government either, in any school.
I don't know exactly how it works either.
BRB
 
4:02 AM
I see no point in paying for a private education. I am happy with the public schools here.
There are lots of different churches here that run schools. So at a minimum, you can choose a Catholic education, or an Anglican education, or a Presbyterian education. I am not really aware of any schools run by organisations of other religions, although I have a nagging feeling that there is a Hindu school somewhere.
No, I'm wrong. I think I'm getting confused with the Wellington Hindi Language School. Which is absolutely not the same thing.
Hey, look what I just found!
I never knew we had one of these.
Two of them.
 
Funny.
Do you have many Muslim immigrants?
We do.
 
And apparently two Jewish schools too.
 
We have those too.
They are now permanently guarded.
At least some.
 
Umm, there are almost no Muslims in the Wellington area. A tiny handful of Somalians, maybe. Auckland is probably different. Those two Muslim schools are both in Auckland.
 
Ah OK.
 
4:13 AM
Auckland is much more ethnically diverse than Wellington; so I expect it would be much more religiously diverse too.
 
Probably.
 
This morning, I went to the only Halal butchery in the lower half of the North Island. It's about 30 minutes' drive from my home. But it's impossible to buy Halal meat anywhere else.
If there were more Muslims here, some things would be easier for those who DO live here.
 
Yes, obviously.
We have tons of Islamic shops and butchers here.
We all buy stuff there.
Unfortunately, there are none in the city centre.
Where I live.
 
Hmm.
I should move to Amsterdam.
Or Riyadh, I guess.
 
Hehe.
 
4:23 AM
Hmm, it seems there is more than one in the lower North Island.
 
If you ever turn into a fundamentalist, then you should pick Riyadh.
 
But none that is close to my home.
 
Otherwise, come here.
 
There are dozens in Auckland.
What's a fundamentalist?
 
It usually means extremist here. I guess it has to do with taking all sorts of religious precepts and such much more strictly and more literally than the large majority does.
 
4:27 AM
To me, the word "fundamentalist", relating to any religion, just means one who believes that the scriptures of that religion are the word of God. I can't imagine what a non-fundamentalist Muslim would be, given that The Qur'an is so central to our beliefs.
But "extremist" never sounds good.
 
@DavidWallace It is a common term here. Scriptures can be interpreted in stricter and less strict ways, I guess?
 
@Cerberus I'm not convinced.
 
Of what?
 
I mean, in terms of Christianity, I understand what the word "fundamentalist" means. Many Christians don't take the Bible too seriously, given that it was written by a whole load of different men. Particularly the first 16 chapters of Genesis; which describe the creation, the flood, and other very early events, which nobody really knows about.
So a fundamentalist Christian is one who believes the entire Bible literally. I have met such people. Right down to the earth being created in 7 days, 6000 years ago.
 
There are degrees.
 
4:35 AM
@DavidWallace I thought fundamentalists are those that stress the importance of the basic texts or tenets of a religion. Which is more specific.
 
I guess that is more or less what I said?
"Precepts and such".
 
But when it comes to the Qur'an, every Muslim believes that it is the infallible word of God. Whereas we may not all interpret it the same way, we all believe that it's completely true.
 
Many Christian sects believe this about the Bible too while adhering to different interpretations.
 
I don't really see how there can be degrees of Islamicness, except insofaras it's a difficult religion to learn, and someone like me (who am a recent convert to Islam) can't be expected to know all of it right away; so I won't do everything as correctly as someone who has been a Muslim their whole life.
 
Well, certain Christians would say the same about their Christianity.
They feel that certain people who call themselves Christians are not in fact that, because they don't believe or do what the first group believes to be a requirement for being Christian.
 
4:38 AM
There are many, many different interpretations of some parts of the Qur'an. And Muslims of different denominations have different collections of "Hadiths", which are additional bits of "guidance for living". But umm, one must still accept that the Qur'an is the literal truth, regardless of which set of Hadiths one adopts.
@Cerberus Maybe. I think "Christian" is a really loose term anyway.
I think it means someone who believes that Jesus is either God, or is the son of God.
But people use it different ways, I suppose.
 
They do.
 
I have seen a longer list for what it means.
 
As do Muslims.
 
What do Muslims?
 
Use different (implicit or explicit) definitions of what is required to call yourself a Muslim.
 
4:42 AM
I'm not so sure. I only know of one definition. A Muslim is someone who has said to another person, a certain string of Arabic words. Roughly translated - "I bear witness that there is no God but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger and slave of Allah". If you have not said these words to another person, you are not a Muslim.
Of course, there's nothing to stop somebody saying these words and not believing them, I suppose.
 
And yet certain people might posit additional requirements.
 
I'm not sure that they would. I think Muslims accept this definition. I can't imagine any Muslim telling me that I am not a Muslim, because I fail to meet some other requirement. I AM a Muslim, because I have said those words out loud to another person, and believe them wholeheartedly.
I guess there's a question over how one would stop being a Muslim, if one wished to.
 
@DavidWallace I'm quite sure that some people would say "x is not a Muslim, because he does not abide by the rules a, b, and c, which are to me essential".
 
Hmm, OK. I shall keep my ears open. I would be interested if somebody told me what those rules might be.
 
I have read about person x calling person y "not a Muslim".
 
4:49 AM
I have to confess to being very new to this.
 
They vary. A crazy person could demand that you follow extra rules p, q, and r in a fit of ecstasy—it happens.
But anyway, it's bed time on this side of the globe.
 
Oh, there are hundreds of rules.
But I don't stop being a Muslim if I fail to follow them.
I am still learning the rules. It seems a mammoth task.
@Cerberus Anyway, good night, it's been pleasant talking to you, as always.
 
Buona notte!
 
@Cerberus Is "unpeeling an orange" grammatically correct?
 
@skullpatrol Um I would say no.
Peeling an orange.
But I was away!
Good night!
 
4:56 AM
later
thanks for responding
 
5:10 AM
peeling seems to have a double present participle...
 
5:20 AM
@Cerberus Merriam Webster disagrees with you.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:01 AM
@skullpatrol Is unpeeing grammatically correct?
And is it a better description of what really happens?
 
@MετάEd Yes, informally.
0
Q: Is "unpeeling an orange" grammatically correct?

skullpatrolI found this unsourced reference. Which made me wonder if it is correct or not? Could this be considered an "auto-antonym" like ravel and unravel?

 
@skullpatrol My dad and I are already fond of giving, not taking, a pee. He is going to be delighted by unpee.
 
@MετάEd It's called a "hypernegation."
 
Yes, like unravel.
But it is better than unravel. Unpee adds the sense of unburdening one's self of the pee.
 
Lawler gives this reference
 
7:07 AM
I'm afraid of Lawler references.
They are too much fun and also too long.
 
Me too :)
but he certainly knows what he's talking about.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:02 AM
Hello.
 
Hallodrioh!
 
Pretty quiet in here?
 
WHAT? I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE NOISE!
 
Wait, I just won a Nobel Prize?
 
9:12 AM
4 reelz? wut 1?
 
I just won a Nobel Prize! Wow. Gee. That was unexpected. I have to thank my parents, God and Ann Rayd.
@MattЭллен for peace.
 
Oh hey! me too :D
 
Peace and quiet?
 
No way! Get out! Grats!
First I was TIME Person of the Year, now I'm a Nobel-Prize Winner. I'm like Obama, except my name is not that close to Osama. I rule!
 
Wait... I did win it, right? Or did my Government veto it?
 
9:15 AM
Your government keeps misspelling EU as UK, yes.
 
Well, I pretend for the moment that I've not been denied a prize because my government are too insular
Peace Prize High Five @RegDwighт
 
Cheers!
 
9:31 AM
@Robusto congrats on 70k.
 
9:42 AM
 
10:16 AM
@RegDwighт Do you have a higher-res version of that? I'm thinking that might be useful as a gag gift somewhere down the line
 
I just googleimaged for "an ideal boy indian poster".
After coming across the many posters here.
Do have a look, there's even weirder stuff in that gallery.
Individual cleanliness advice: be punctual to school.
When I grow up, I will be a market place.
Bad habits: electricity and use of unclean eatables.
 
but which is more important Keeping hands clean, or being punctual? At some point I will have to choose!
 
@MattЭллен you don't, that's the beauty of it.
One is a hypernym of the other.
If you are punctual to school, you are also individually clean.
 
I have to do all those things in that order?
 
Not if you're a marketplace.
I've heard marketplaces in India are totally allowed to be filthy.
 
10:25 AM
lol
 
Just stop using electricity habitually.
And don't eat the filth. At least not all the time. Once or twice is okay.
 
Is it OK to quarrel so long as I don't raise my fist?
 
Who needs punches when there's uppercuts.
 
That's why people become barbers
 
Contrary to what the name suggests, an uppercut doesn't count as a raise. You only try to raise your fist, but your helpful opponent stops you by using his jaw.
@MattЭллен sounds barbaric.
 
10:32 AM
for the last few hours I've thought that today was the 10th. I'm sure that's what Windows told me. now it's saying the 12th. I sense a conspiracy
 
Customers who liked Windows minutes also purchased Windows days.
 
lol
that's what's happened! it all makes sense now
 
Xblast time!
 
Jez
great, my cold has now entered the "your nose is broken" stage
i can't taste or smell anything. it's curious... less colourful.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:56 AM
-2
Q: What's the name of stackexchange in Chinese?

Xiè JìléiWe see the popular websites in Chinese: Yahoo! -> 雅虎 Google -> 谷歌 Facebook -> 脸书 And, Stack Exchange -> ? I would suggest 栈局 if there's not yet.

 
I'm surprised that Yahoo is still popular
 
Altavista still exists, too. And Lycos. And GMX. And Geocities, even.
 
Lycos farmed all their free sites for megacity
hot digity damn I'm tired
 
@mr.shinyandnew安宇 at last, you can build your house out of LEGO! legioblock.com/en
 
oh, well apparently tripod is back with lycos again. I wonder what happened to my site...
I don't read the dictionary for the articles
not often, anyway
Hello @KitFox! How is your household? Feeling better yet?
 
12:15 PM
A little better, a little worse. I had not much sleepies last night and I found out from a teacher yesterday that I forgot one eensy tiny detail when I launched the site.
 
oh dear. What was missing?
 
Which is to say I forgot to move all of the students up one grade.
 
ah! I'm sure they don't remind repeating a year for you
 
SO I actually used sys.tables this morning!
For like the first time ever!
 
12:17 PM
brb
 
I remember using sys.tables when I wanted to search the whole database for a particular string. I did it so often I wrote a script. bad times.
 
I needed to find all the foreign keys, because I'll have to update them once I insert all the new grades.
 
I think I expanded it to ints and floats, now I think about it
@KitFox I see. sensible
 
Sensible would have been to do it before I had keys to update.
 
Xblast time!
 
12:22 PM
Hey, I'm working on something new for the Nose.
 
orly?
what kind of new thing?
 
Hop over to The Overlook. That's a good spot for talking about writing.
 
12:36 PM
It's time for me to be unable to talk in the presence of other people who are unable to talk in the presence of me.
toodles!
 
@Jez My mom got a cold a year or so ago, and her sense of smell never came back.
 
How old is she?
 
older than me
 
I would hope so ;-)
 
"never" is a slight exaggeration. Over the last couple weeks certain odours are working again. But still far from 100%. And it took months
 
12:41 PM
I'm just saying older people take longer to recover, no?
 
Well, the cold itself was gone within a normal timespan. But her sense of smell was gone too. Like, totally, completely gone.
She could in no way smell anything.
 
how about taste?
 
taste was fine, in the strict sense of "the chemicals you can discern with your tongue". So food basically lost all its flavour.
gotta run, bye
 
Sorry, if I was I too insensitive.
 
1:15 PM
3 hours ago, by Jez
i can't taste or smell anything. it's curious... less colourful.
I hope you feel better soon. @Jez
 
@RegDwighт This is all your fault.
 
1:57 PM
Hi.
 
Hi.
 
Hi ho. (I'm channelling Happy, or maybe Sleepy or Dopey.)
 
Who are you calling—oh. Oh, I see.
 
@RegDwighт Let's all try to keep in mind our camp motto: Clean Mind, Clean Body. (Take your pick.)
 
I should maybe shower then.
 
2:22 PM
Where did my watch window go?
 

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