English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-10-12 (page 1 of 5)

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12:09 AM

@Cerberus Why do you feel that awareness of the existence of a duplicate will prevent the person from posting their question? Take a look at the comments here.

-4

Q: $\gcd(m,n) > 1\implies \phi(mn) \neq \phi(m)\phi(n)$

Possible Duplicate: Does $\varphi(mn) = \varphi(m)\varphi(n)$ imply that $\gcd(m,n) = 1$? Multiplicative property of Euler’s Totient function Is it possible to find two integers $m > 1$ and $n > 1$ that are not relatively prime but for which $\phi(mn) = \phi(m)\phi(n)$. I look...

elementary-number-theory prime-numbers

Umm I see no comments?

Why not?

@RegDwighт now look what you’ve done. . . :)

2

Q: perl unicode Wide character in syswrite at

I have this word comЯade but i can't print it in HTML because of the russian Я ... Tried: $HTML::Entities::char2entity{'Я'} = 'Я'; $HTML::Entities::char2entity{'1071'} = 'Я'; $HTML::Entities::char2entity{'ÃÂ¯'} = 'Я'; $str = HTML::Entities::encode_entities( ...

perl unicode html-entities

user image

Do you see comments?

@Cerberus What’s wrong with your equations’ display?

12:22 AM

You tell me, and how to fix it.

@Cerberus No, the original question - not the one linked at the top.

Hey, Mah!

Hi.

Hi!

@DavidWallace I don't understand. This is your link.

@Cerberus It is not.

Click the title on the bit that I embedded.

user image

That’s what you are supposed to be seeing.

12:25 AM

No, it's not!

What is wrong with you both?

You already know that answer, David.

user image

Yours is messed up, but only a little.

What are you talking about?

user image

12:31 AM

I find the font on tchrist's looks nicer.

Quite!

I made mine smaller so that I could capture it with alt-printscreen.

Notice how his imply is messed up?

My point was the comments! Who does this guy think he is?

Ew, that's a gross imply.

Mine looks like tchrist's.

All pretty and stuff.

12:32 AM

You also seem to have pixelated fonts.

Mine does if I don't make it smaller.

Like broken bitmaps.

I probably did the pixellation inadvertently.

@DavidWallace Okay, I have no idea what you're doing. I clicked the link, that's all I can do.

Look, my point is the comments, not how the TeXing looks.

12:33 AM

23 mins ago, by David Wallace

-4

Q: $\gcd(m,n) > 1\implies \phi(mn) \neq \phi(m)\phi(n)$

Possible Duplicate: Does $\varphi(mn) = \varphi(m)\varphi(n)$ imply that $\gcd(m,n) = 1$? Multiplicative property of Euler’s Totient function Is it possible to find two integers $m > 1$ and $n > 1$ that are not relatively prime but for which $\phi(mn) = \phi(m)\phi(n)$. I look...

elementary-number-theory prime-numbers

No comment.

Why does Cerb have broken eqns?

You just asked this question yesterday to which I provided an answer. Is there something you find unsatisfactory? — EuYu 5 hours ago

I'm more interested in why he gets something completely different by clicking the link than from what I get.

user image

@tchrist I had mathjax blocked.

Oh.

Does that block comments, too?

12:34 AM

Of course. In case you catch a virus by having equations formatted nicely.

Hmm.

Just curious to see if someone can come up with something different. — CodeKingPlusPlus 5 hours ago

@tchrist No, the question that Cerb included was the one that you get from clicking the first of the two links under "Possible Duplicates".

Which can only lead me to conclude that Cerb has some kind of browser add-on that automatically navigates to the first link on any page that you visit.

Probably a virus.

StrangeAttractor.

@DavidWallace Nah, that would be his user profile, or the first Q in the MC, or the main site.

12:36 AM

@tchrist But you see the same page I do?

But Cerberus is very careful to make sure that his OS and all his virus scanning software is always completely up to date.

Oh, he installed VMS?

I installed nothing.

@Cerberus I’m afraid you two have too confused me to know.

I am redirected on Chrome too.

The site is redirecting me.

David, can you click the link again?

12:38 AM

Wait, this is ringing distant bells.

-4

Q: $\gcd(m,n) > 1\implies \phi(mn) \neq \phi(m)\phi(n)$

Possible Duplicate: Does $\varphi(mn) = \varphi(m)\varphi(n)$ imply that $\gcd(m,n) = 1$? Multiplicative property of Euler’s Totient function Is it possible to find two integers $m > 1$ and $n > 1$ that are not relatively prime but for which $\phi(mn) = \phi(m)\phi(n)$. I look...

elementary-number-theory prime-numbers

Do you need a certain amount of rep to view closed questions or something?

It has to do with the dup thingie.

Could be a CDN issue.

@tchrist You click it too, see whether you are redirected.

Still works right for me. Shall I try one of my sock puppets?

12:39 AM

Nah.

One who has never been to Math.SE?

Well, sure.

I don’t know. I do not go to the one it is closed as. I see the closure.

You can try.

Wait, Cerb, do you have a Maths.SE account?

12:39 AM

@tchrist Do you see the question asked by green icon or by red icon?

I am redirected from green's to red's.

@Mahnax I don't know...I am not logged in.

I could try logging in.

Huh? Green or red icon?

That I do not understand. I see no green.

user image

27

Q: Automatically redirect anonymous user from unanswered duplicate question to corresponding answered version

Duplicate questions that use different words to describe the same problem are important for people to find the content via search engines. But the user experience when an anonymous user arrives at a duplicate is less than ideal. They have to notice the duplicate link and understand that the answ...

feature-request status-completed exact-duplicates

This is Mr Green Icon.

Figured it out.

There you go, folks.

12:40 AM

Ah, OK.

I suspect that when tchrist posted his first screenshot, he was just being snarky.

If I run it not logged in, it redirects me.

Well, yes.

I think that confused Cerb.

@Mahnax Thanks, that clears it up.

It confused David.

12:42 AM

Oh, was it David?

I know Tchrist cannot be trusted.

Oh, now I'm not sure.

Of what?

I did not do anything to intentionally confuse anyone.

I didn’t understand what you were talking about.

Good.

12:43 AM

I was just trying to show the purdy math stuff.

Oh, thank you @Mahnax.

No problem.

You have out@Regged @Reg.

I remember at some point I couldn't see Imgur images while Vitaly could.

It took us a while to figure out why.

Or perhaps it was someone else, but Vitaly and I figured it out.

It was because of an error in one CDN.

Before that, I didn't even know what CDNs were.

Wouldn't it be annoying if some of our problem users posted the same question day after day, to "see if someone can come up with something different".

12:47 AM

Yes.

Oh, yes, you told me yesterday I should say "a" before a consonant sound and "an" before a vowel sound; but I just thought I'd see if someone can come up with something different.

Haha.

I can just see steam coming out of a little owl's ears.

Yes.

And steamed owl is not the exotic delicacy you might expect it to be.

OK, so "one" is singular, and other numbers are plural, but can someone come up with something different?

I've never eaten owl.

1:05 AM

How about a half?

I can't stomach fractions.

Then pick the owl.

A half dozen then.

That's only just six.

Oh, hello, @KitFox.

I couldn't eat half, whether it's dozin' or not.

1:08 AM

Ohai.

@DavidWallace How’s that?

Hi.

@KitFox Hey, did you ever write any more of that story with the two women, and the rapist boss? Macy or something was one of them?

@tchrist Not out.

Oh, I forgot about that story. Yeah, is there any more?

I have, but not posted it. It is not in any shape for sharing, but I have the next two stories sketched out and waiting for wind.

I am working on something else right now.

1:10 AM

I was just thinking about it and wondering.

¹³⁄₃₇ ⁶⁄₁₂ ²²⁄₇ ⁹⁄₅₀

There's something half-pied in the middle of that.

⁹⁹⁹⁹⁄₁₀₀₀₀

Oh, heck, that's a New Zealandism too.

I am looking forward to Ada's Story, but I think I should write Mark's first.

1:13 AM

But didn't he die?

Yes.

The stories overlap in time.

Should the reader have any sympathy for him?

@KitFox Oh, yes, I get that.

I think the reader will feel sorry for him in the end because he is so pathetic.

I dislike building up a rapport for a character in chapter one, then they die in chapter two.

But I usually build up rapports for the wrong characters.

But the plan is essentially to tell the story three times, once from each character's point of view.

1:15 AM

Is there such a word as rapports? Or is it a mass noun?

I would "rapport with."

No matter how many.

But I don't know if that's correct.

I think I prefer rapport for. NGram time, I feel.

Bring it. I've got a KitKat needs eating.

Oh, I can eat it for you.

Or with you :-)

Some tentative googling supports "rapport with" over "rapport for" quite strongly.

And a small handful of uses of "rapports".

@Mahnax I'm writing something pretty depressing right now, but if you are interested to see the work in progress, it is on my blog.

1:18 AM

@KitFox OK, I'll give it a look.

I'm doing it piecemeal, writing scenes that I feel like writing.

The "First Attempt"?

The first four are rather in order, but the last one is a flashback.

@Mahnax Yeah, that's it.

Alright, I'll read it.

Now that I look more closely, most of the hits for "rapports" seem to be misspellings of "reports".

1:19 AM

It is either rapport with, or sometimes rapport between.

So today I had to make the tough decision to not use Perl.

Well, I say "rapport for" - but then, I am not American(TM).

1894 Doyle S. Holmes 169 ― As a proof that I had been in rapport with you.
1915 W. N. P. Barbellion Jrnl. Apr. in Enjoying Life (1919) 67 ― It wounds my self-esteem not to be··in direct telepathic rapport with the universe and its beauty.
1919 Lancet 8 Feb. 206/2 ― A lack of complete rapport between the muscles and the brain nerve centres.
1934 C. Lambert Music Ho! iii. 175 ― This lack of rapport between the tune and harmony is particularly noticeable in some of the later works of Bartók.
1941 A. White Let. 7 Feb. in Hound & Falcon (1969) 114 ― It was one of our good ‘rapports’ that I shoul…

@KitFox Condolences.

OK, tvtv time! Baies!

1884 Proc. Soc. Psychical Res. II. 127 ― A mesmerised ‘subject’ who is sufficiently en rapport with his mesmeriser.

1:25 AM

Oh, maybe I don't. Who knows. I shall listen to myself next time.

1:53 AM

Are you sure you would say "building up a rapport with a character" instead of "building up rapport with a character"?

And do you pronounce the t?

I would not.

@Cerberus Who I? I don't know anything any more.

It still feels decidedly French to me.

@DavidWallace Oh, OK.

Oh, but I definitely don't pronounce the T.

What drink does to a person!

@Cerberus Are you asking ME what drink does to a person?

1:55 AM

@DavidWallace Ah OK. Then I would not use the article (if ever).

@DavidWallace It wasn't a question.

It was supposed to be an exclamatory joke.

I might occasionally use the article. But usually not.

Which answers my earlier question.

OK.

Curiosity = satisfied.

And thinking about it, I am sure I would say "rapport with" normally. But maybe "rapport for" very occasionally.

KitFox 1 - David 0.

Time for revenge!

How does not pronouncing the T impact whether to use the article?

@Cerberus What did you have in mind?

2:05 AM

I actually didn't mean to suggest that there was a connection.

Although it could be there, I don't know.

@DavidWallace Rolling her house?

practising newly learned term

Oh, you mean TPing it?

That would seem to me to be an overreaction.

Hey, darling, I'll be gone for a couple of days. I'm just going to get a plane to the other side of the world, to throw some toilet paper at some woman's house. Do you mind? What's that? Why? Oh, umm, because she uses the word "rapport" correctly. No, I don't think so. OK, love you. Bye.

@DavidWallace Yes!

@DavidWallace Haha, yes, anything wrong with that scenario?

Yes. I don't know KitFox's address.

Neither do I.

Perhaps you can coax her into telling you.

@Cerberus I would bet against it. I'm not that charming!

2:13 AM

You can be.

No flirting in chat!

I'd have to pretend that I want to send her something. But I can't think of anything that I could conceivably send her, that she'd actually want me to send.

It would have to be something expensive.

Perhaps greed could overcome her caution.

I suppose I don't REALLY need to send it, do I. Just convince her that I want to.

Of course.

Unless you feel it would be unethical to lie to her so.

I could ask her what she would like for Christmas.

@Cerberus Kant again?

Yes, as I'm sure you're aware, lying is a sin.

2:18 AM

@DavidWallace Nah.

I think Kant would disapprove of your motives to begin with.

Are you saying that Kant never threw toilet paper at anyone's house?

At least, over the trees around it. Or whatever the procedure is.

The only things that have ever been done to houses that I was living in were (1) a dozen eggs all over the windows, and (2) stones thrown on the roof.

Hmm why the eggs?

And did it have a flat roof?

Or did the stones end up in the gutters?

No, a flat roof would spoil the whole point.

It's for the noise they make rolling down the roof.

@Cerberus You'd have to ask the idiots who did it.

Ah, I see.

Annoying.

It seems to be in a similar category to toilet paper - in that it takes a disproportionately long time to clean up.

@Cerberus Like every night for about 3 months.

2:26 AM

Huh?

That's strange.

And you have no idea who or why?

I know exactly who.

Who, or who not. There is no why.

No why?

It was the favourite evening activity for a group of degenerates in my school-year, when I was 17 or so. Oh, what are you guys doing this evening? Oh, just thought we'd go and throw stones at Wallace's house for a while. What about yourself?

It may not have been every night. But it certainly seemed like it.

And I strongly suspect that alcohol or drugs may have been involved. I should thank my lucky stars that it was stones and not bottles.

Wow.

That is terrible.

Did they fight or bully you otherwise?

What did your parents do when the rocks were thrown?

@Cerberus Umm, yes.

@Cerberus I don't really remember. This was my mum's house - my dad lived elsewhere at the time. She talked a number of times about phoning the police, but I don't remember her ever doing so.

@Cerberus It's certainly not the worst thing any of them ever did to me.

2:34 AM

Oh, man.

That must have sucked.

I presume you'd rather not talk about the worst thing.

It was only ever in ten-minute intervals, so if Mum ever had phoned the police, they would have been gone before they came.

@Cerberus Umm, maybe not here.

@DavidWallace Dicks.

We should have hidden in the bushes and thrown cans of unwashable paint on them!

Hah, I can imagine how that might have worked out.

I just emailed you what the two worst things one of the kids in this group did to me were.

Okay, those two things are very annoying. But one of the "besides" seems even worse.

Bullying is so wrong.

It should be crushed with an iron fist.

Oh, he did hit me in the head with a hockey stick once too. But not very hard.

That didn't qualify to be in the top two.

2:42 AM

As a teacher, I would be very, very strict with bullying.

Assuming you knew it was happening.

Although it can be hard to tell how serious it is.

Yeah.

You always see something, but it can be very hard to interpret.

I wish I had done more to counter bullying as a kid.

The worst bullies have parents who don't care what their kids get up to. So what can the schools do?

Although I rarely saw it.

@DavidWallace Lecture them. Shame them in public. Suspend them.

And send Very Serious letters to their parents, even if they don't care a great deal.

@Cerberus Shame them how? Other kids look up to the kids who behave this way.

2:45 AM

I could shame them.

I'm not sure that you could.

Oh, and I would have the class watch a video about bullying and suicide.

@DavidWallace Call him up to the front of the class. Ask him questions and humiliate him by showing how pathetic his answers are.

Tell him I don't want to have him in my class.

Nah, this one would have been proud of how pathetic his answers were.

No, I would make sure he contradicted himself and such.

It's easy to out-debate a kid.

@Cerberus He wouldn't have cared.

You probably wouldn't have got much more out of him than a few shoulder-shrugs.

2:48 AM

Oh, he would have, because the other kids would have found his answers pathetic too.

You may as well have tried to reason with a chimpanzee.

That's fine.

Then I can humiliate him in a monologue.

No, you couldn't.

A chimpanzee is basically unhumiliable, and this kid would have been the same.

So you think when you're his age. When you're older, it's easier to see their weaknesses.

I'm well aware of his weaknesses. But I can't imagine him feeling ashamed about them.

2:50 AM

Those aren't his weaknesses.

In any case, I would do what I could. It would become an Issue. People would talk.

Umm, I'm not sure. If there's one thing that school taught me, it's that alerting an adult to bullying invariably makes the problem worse, not better.

Of course, that is not what I tell my son.

Have you ever seen this in your school?

@DavidWallace The point is you need to enlist other kids.

If need be, reward them for telling on the bully.

Have I ever seen what in my school?

That way, he will see these kids as his enemies, and ease up in the kids he was already bullying.

@Cerberus No, kids will be motivated more by fear of the bully than by any reward that a teacher can offer.

2:54 AM

@DavidWallace A visible, elaborate effort to counter bullying in a specific case.

@DavidWallace The bully wouldn't know.

In my son's school, yes.

He wouldn't even know who his traitors would be.

@Cerberus He would guess, and the effect would be the same.

@DavidWallace That's great. Don't you agree that trying is better than not trying, for a school/teacher?

@DavidWallace It is only one of the many things you could try.

@Cerberus Assuming they do a better job of it than the teachers in my school ever did.

2:55 AM

Did you see them try, in your school?

At my primary school, the teachers' usual strategy was to take the bully aside and tell him how disappointed they were in him.

That is something.

And in high school?

No, it's not.

It is the opposite of something.

You told the teacher that we beat you up, didn't you? So now, we're going to beat you up even worse.

I would really like to talk to such a bully. I'm really curious what it would be like.

@DavidWallace Yes, that is of course the no. 1 effect that you need to take into account.

@Cerberus I don't recall any kind of strategy in high school. Mostly because kids who get bullied had learnt that letting the teacher know usually has a negative effect, so they are careful not to tell any adult.

2:58 AM

Yeah.

At any rate, I think schools should do more, try more, indoctrinate kids in general, show suicide-story video, have group discussions.

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